National Celtics discourse
- Thread starter RorschachsMask
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Time prevented me from watching more but what I saw was good stuff.
I'm pretty sure JJ's whiteboard PnR design for LeBron and Bronny was the closing and winning argument for JJ's rumored new job.
That people here actually put weight on these guys opinions? I guess I missed that.
Jrue has basically been completely ignored in the lead-up to this series.. as if he's not going to have any impact.
Yeah the only post I can see giving any weight to it is the one about Legler. I think 99.9% of the posts in this thread are more of the frustrated or bemused variety.
People are getting pretty exercised about Cs takes here and beyond. The media discourse about the series is now a discourse unto itself.
Whatever - we have had no actual hoops content in a week. People need to discuss and get big mad about something and frankly, bad NBA takes are far better than a lot of other current topics.
He was dead on about Mavs-Wolves so I'm surprised to hear this. He's usually really on point.
Edit: Legler picked the Celtics over the Pacers. Don't love he's picking the Mavs and the ESPN idiots have the celtics.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40188452/nba-playoffs-2024-experts-predict-celtics-pacers-timberwolves-mavericks-conference-finals-series-mvp
Yeah, Steve Jones Jr. is Snapper Jones's kid. He played at UNLV and did video coordinator and assistant coach stints for the Griz and the Nets. He does a lot of good video analysis on Twitter in addition to the podcast, but seems like they're focusing more on the WNBA recently.
Yes. The celtics most feared opponents is the .... Celtics (the version of the team that reverts to bad habits). Disrespect them and that version might be too shy to appear.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who was annoyed by the hypocrisy.
I get it. Luka's incredible, a basketball genius and all that. But Lowe is so over the top with him as a superhuman hoops gawd who can dice and dissect any defense you could possibly throw at him. I'm fairly sure the only reason he's taking the Celtics in 7 is because they were his preseason pick, which he's mentioned at least every other pod throughout the season. I like Lowe a lot, but it'd be nice if he toned down the Luka worship and gave a bit less time to the "Luka will simply figure out anything the Cs can throw at him" portion of his analysis.
I didn't see this segment, but when someone like Legler picks the Mavs, they may not be doing so because they think the Mavs are better, but because they don't believe the Celtics will execute in the necessary spots.
This Celtics group, both this year against the better teams in the league, and the past few years in the playoffs, have given some fuel to that type of skepticism, regardless of how talented they are or what numbers they put up in the aggregate this year.
We have all seen them beat themselves, and it's not crazy to think it will happen again. They have to kill that doubt in the Finals.
Timpf picks the Celtics in 6, start at 8:40 for the pick and explanation:
View: https://youtu.be/CH1RlkHfZkk?si=KIuMxm4lyO3gayOI&t=521
View: https://youtu.be/CH1RlkHfZkk?si=KIuMxm4lyO3gayOI&t=521
I have a weird theory on this, which is Bill Simmons adjacent. A couple of big audience bball podcasts like Lowe and Windhorst and Ryen just mostly cede any Celtics conversation and audience to Bill. Those first two seem basically only existing to talk teams west coast—>Texas anyway. Boston teams/fans tend to the hateable (they ain’t us!) so it’s an easy embrace.
I stand corrected. Upon thinking hard about why I believed this, I think it was me catching Legler on Sportscenter saying the Celtics were in real trouble after Game 1 against Indiana. Which I somehow turned into him picking against them.
Thanks for the correct info
He did, but he picked the Celtics in 7 games so he obviously thought that was more of a coin flip. I've listened to his podcast and I am not surprised he picked the Mavs, he's extremely high on Luka and Kyrie as "proven" closers (Luka has won nothing in his career) and more skeptical about Tatum and Brown. He spent very little time on KP, Jrue, etc. I know he's not one of the blathering morons, but I mostly disagree with his analysis on the series.
Let's be honest here; Kyrie is going to lay at least two eggs in this series. Good lord, no guy has ever gotten more out of one series than Kyrie did out of the Cleveland run, where he torched a gimpy Steph Curry. People seem to view him as this Rivera-like closer--he has shot 42% from the floor in clutch situations during the playoffs, and was tied for 23rd this season in total clutch field goals this season, right between Jalen Williams and Nikola Vucevic.
I have no strong opinion about this, but using "total clutch field goals" as a metric seems suboptimal. He plays with Luka Doncic in all clutch situations. Luka probably took a few of those shots.
Great fucking post.
Not just the media. A lot of folks basically get 95% of their basketball on reels. Hate to sound like the old guys yelling at the clouds, but highlight packages don't show any defense, screens, jumping passing lanes. It's basically all step-back threes off the dribble, oops, breaking ankles, and the occasional swat into the fifth row. Viewing hoop through that lens will absolutely change your perception of who are the dominant players. The Instagram generation.
Small correction. Us 40-somethings are the Instagram generation. The young'uns are the Tik Tok generation (or probably something newer and cooler that I haven't even heard about yet!).
Thanks. I didn't realize Steve Jones was Snapper's kid (do people under 50 know who Steve "Snapper" Jones is?) but I did think they kind of sounded the same so I was wondering if there was a relationship. So now I know!
Confession - I had no idea Steve Jones Jr. was a video coordinator so that part was a complete accident. I was actually thinking of Mo Dakhil, the former LAC video coordinator who sometimes is on Lowe's podcast.
Not sure if this was cited already, but if you want to listen to a non-Celtics podcast that is pretty clear-headed about this series and doesn't get all hot and bothered by intangibles, you should give the latest episode of Pod Maverick a listen.
I went down the Mavericks podcasts rabbithole today for some hate listening, but found this instead (and yes, I found a lot of crap, too).
I went down the Mavericks podcasts rabbithole today for some hate listening, but found this instead (and yes, I found a lot of crap, too).
I only know Snapper from his broadcasting days, but I imagine most people my age (46) who watched a lot of hoops in the 90s would recognize the name and probably the voice from his NBC days.
Like most who knew the man, Steve had great things to say about Bill Walton, who he knew as his dad’s broadcasting partner over the years. They were a fun duo.
Funny, I had forgotten that Snapper and Walton were on broadcasts together. I remember him from his days woth Marv Albert. Not to take the thread ofc-topic but here's a nive clip of Marv and Steve (with a cameo of sorts from Larry Brown).
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl0xsEPuzc8
I buy that.
My son is 21 and gets his highlights from both still, plenty of Insta, but what you're saying tracks with what everyone has been saying in a different thread on a different forum about TikTok. Makes me sad because 15yo him would watch 30-40 games a year with me, and now, I'm not even sure that he's watching the playoffs.
Some day he'll buy a car with proceeds from his jersey and sneaker collection.
Zach Lowe just wrote a column that would lead everyone to think he’s taking Mavs in 5 and then says Celtics in 6….
these are the last two paragraphs (and the previous paragraphs are going over how Dallas and Boston were built and then some more Luka slobbering). There’s also a real gem about how Maxi Kleber is the Mavs “ace in the hole”
“The Mavs can win this. They have the best player, and if Irving sizzles, they could have the best two. In that scenario, they're champs. With Porzingis out or limited, I'd pick the Mavs.
But assuming Porzingis can give this a real go, Boston should have barely enough answers at both ends. It knows what it is up against -- that it will have to summon a new energy and focus, and reach a higher level than was required in the East. Everything for so many years has been leading to this moment -- this chance”
these are the last two paragraphs (and the previous paragraphs are going over how Dallas and Boston were built and then some more Luka slobbering). There’s also a real gem about how Maxi Kleber is the Mavs “ace in the hole”
“The Mavs can win this. They have the best player, and if Irving sizzles, they could have the best two. In that scenario, they're champs. With Porzingis out or limited, I'd pick the Mavs.
But assuming Porzingis can give this a real go, Boston should have barely enough answers at both ends. It knows what it is up against -- that it will have to summon a new energy and focus, and reach a higher level than was required in the East. Everything for so many years has been leading to this moment -- this chance”
It almost certainly won’t happen but all this national coverage makes me want the Celtics to stomp the fuck out of the Mavs and make this a totally uncompetitive and boring series. These shitheads don’t deserve a moment of excitement or tension. And I’ve had enough for a lifetime.
What I would love to see is the Celtics come out strong and punch the Mavs so hard in the teeth that Kyrie quits after game 1 and we get to watch 3 more games of Luka getting progressively more demonstrative towards the refs, his teammates, whoever, as they continue to get crushed each game with no answer. Bonus points if KP stays healthy, puts up great numbers and has fun against his old team.
It's all I've been thinking and dreaming about. I picked Celtics in 6 (that's doing my best to check my own bias, in my heart it's 5 games), so realistically I am not expecting a complete bloodbath, but I would LOVE for it to be a 4 or 5 game utter beatdown. It would be nothing but mea culpas for a month.
I never thought after this season Derrick White, Jrue Holiday and Kristaps Porzingis would be underrated but here we are.
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I really expect them to be up 3-1 after 4, and I just do not think this team wouldn’t close it out at home in a game 5.
I think the same as you about 3-1 but I think they lose game 5. Then people
Will be really freaked out before they close them out on the road. This group is a bunch of road warriors
I think I’m trending towards Celtics in 5. Win first two. Mavs are inspired to win game 3. Celtics win 4 and finish 5 at home for the Series and all the Glory.
Just had to add for some here SPORTSPHONE and getting scores via a 900 number was the tic toc platform in the early 80s.
As I recall companies got sick of footing the bill for the slackers and degen gamblers, (iirc $0.50 a minute) and started blocking the #.
It feels like the national media is approaching their coverage from the standpoint that people think the Celtics will stomp the Mavs. They begin the analysis explaining why they won’t without ever acknowledging why the Celtics are favored to begin with. Because so much analysis has started with how good the Mavs are now everyone is picking the Mavs.
Bingo. This has happened all year too (starting with the assumption that everyone knows Boston is so good and then trying to disprove it)
I thought Timpf made some cogent points and was pretty fair (esp. towards the Tatum Effect)
I wouldn't be expecting mea culpa's from the majority of these folks. If the Celtics sweep Dallas or even win in 5, I'm sure they will pivot to "Mickey Mouse ring" takes because they never faced a "real" challenge and that Luka is hurt. Luka is saying that his knee hasn't felt better despite the layoff, he's already setting them up for it. And, to be fair, most Celtics fans would say this kind of stuff if the Lakers or another team we as a fanbase generally dislike were in the spot the Celtics are right now. Plenty of Celtics fans, I think unfairly, dismiss the Lakers 2020 bubble title so I get it at that level.
I guess what I'm more surprised by is this sort of weird revisionism that the Celtics were somehow the decisive favorites to win in 2022, when they weren't, and that they choked in that series. There's this weird dumb guy "THEY SHOULDA WON BY NOW" thing that I feel like I keep seeing, and the fact that they haven't is held against them. I mean, I do understand it because Celtics fans do it every time they piss their pants over a loss and fail to remember that in the playoffs the other teams are good and are trying to win, so losing does not equal choking. That's a very dumb guy clutch intangibles way to talk about things. I get saying that they were a disappointment last year, but I'm not convinced that iteration of the roster beats Denver, so I just don't see any kind of internal consistency or logic behind the idea that previous versions of this team were inevitable champions who blew it. It's just not true at all.
There is a path for this. Boston comes out winning G1 convincingly, handles the Mavs adjustments in G2 due to matchup advantages which is demoralizing then weather the G3 storm prior to the finish in G4. This is the one I like better than the other one.
The Celtics have a top 5 player, another all-NBA level player, and three all-star caliber players on their roster. Dallas doesn’t.
The Isiah Pistons took years and years to get over the hump. Same with Jordan’s Bulls. That it’s taken the Tatum Celtics this long should be no surprise to anyone who’s paid any attention to the league.
The whole Starz vs Depth argument is so faulty. Both teams have 2 of the top 20 players on the planet. Maybe its Luka 2-3 and Tatum 5-6 and JB 15-20 and Kyrie also 15-20 (or even 10-15, whatever)... but the Starz more or less cancel each other out. And then the Celts more or less unequivocally have the next 3-4 best players in the series depending on how you feel about Lively.
Edit: and even if the Dallas Starz (see what I did there) have a couple of dominating games, it really shouldn't be enough for them to win more than 1-2 games
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIufsyuV9vA
If you want to nerd out in a safe space this is it. These guys are excellent.
They take it to the next level. IE Dallas finished the regular season strong but so did the Celtics.
If you want to nerd out in a safe space this is it. These guys are excellent.
They take it to the next level. IE Dallas finished the regular season strong but so did the Celtics.
It’s beyond being underrated.. besides KP they’re not getting talked about at all… other than in relation to who is going to guard Kyrie. DW and JH aren’t being talked about at all on the offensive side. JB is barely getting talked about. The other Mavs starters are getting talked about a lot more.. hoping DW and JH play with a chip on their shoulder.
Didn't know Luka is saying this - is that recent or from a few days back?
I said before that I don't think Luka finishes the series, just like Mitchell and Haliburton didn't finish theirs.
Some people had Jrue playing at an all-NBA level last year and there was some talk about DW being voted on to the all-NBA team (before he went into a mini-slump). And all KP did was be #1 in the points per possession in the post in the entire NBA.
POBOBS has put together a monster team.
Thanks for posting. I wouldn't have seen it (at least not for a while) if you didn't.
For those who haven't/didn't watch it, LBJ says some super complimentary things about CJM. Basically calls him a genius.