NBA 20/21 season thread

Cellar-Door

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I knew there would be spoilers out there so I reached out to Silver yesterday to delete this stat from their database.
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actually, I use TeamRankings.
Umm.... I have no idea what you are looking at, but TeamRankings has the same stats as NBA.com, and they are nowhere close to the numbers in your post.

Edit- to clarify, the Celtics are allowing 36% shooting from 3 not 32% and are 9th not 6th, and there are 7 teams allowing 38% or more.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Umm.... I have no idea what you are looking at, but TeamRankings has the same stats as NBA.com, and they are nowhere close to the numbers in your post.

Edit- to clarify, the Celtics are allowing 36% shooting from 3 not 32% and are 9th not 6th, and there are 7 teams allowing 38% or more.
Yup I screwed this all up. Delete Delete Delete......or mock me until the end of time. Grrrrrr
 

BaseballJones

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Apparently they just couldn't get the Celtics on the schedule enough for Pierce to keep his job.
 

Cellar-Door

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I didn't think Pierce was particularly good, but he seems to have been the victim of two things:
1. The injury to Hunter, they were MUCH better with him (.500 record and a huge improvement to the defense)
2. Unreasonable expectations. they signed a couple offense only wings and thought that fixed their no defense issues.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Is Hunter their most valuable piece? I'd guess most would pick Young and others would pick Collins.

I'd be tempted to take Hunter.
 

Cellar-Door

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Is Hunter their most valuable piece? I'd guess most would pick Young and others would pick Collins.

I'd be tempted to take Hunter.
He's valuable to them because he's a good defender and the rest of their offense is good, but he does a number on their offense. I think when he and Trae are on together this year the Defense is 9 points better than Trae without Hunter, but the offense is 5 points worse. And that might be generous since he was on a hot streak when he got hurt, could be that's him now, but also could be his offense falls somewhere between last year and this, because last year he was not good one either end, but particularly bad on offense.
I don't know if we know what he is yet, but my guess is it's not better than Young or Collins.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I didn't think Pierce was particularly good, but he seems to have been the victim of two things:
1. The injury to Hunter, they were MUCH better with him (.500 record and a huge improvement to the defense)
2. Unreasonable expectations. they signed a couple offense only wings and thought that fixed their no defense issues.
I fully agree with this. I remember posting in one of the preseason threads, it may have been the season win total one, about Atlanta being the most overvalued team by a wide margin. I’d have to look it up but I think I had Atlanta as a 32-win team (based off 82 games) so I could post the Dennis Green clip but you get the idea.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Nikola Jokic is a damn cheat code. You have to think that Denver will be aggressive in looking for help ahead of the deadline. The guy may not win MVP but what he is doing is insane.
 

shawnrbu

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Nets win in San Antonio in the regular season for the first time since January 2002. Nets fans must feel like Celtics fans in 08. A championship level team seemingly out of nowhere if you look back 2 to 3 years.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I feel like he never has bad games. Like, he alternates between ridiculous and very good.
Well tonight he went 17-29 for 39, 14 boards and nine assists. He did go 0-3 from behind the arc but he is largely indefensible in the paint. Thad Young tried but it clearly didn't go very well. Denver with another elite shot creator is kind of scary.
 

scottyno

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Rockets have now lost 12 straight and have the 3rd worst record in the NBA, good chance they end up keeping their draft pick this year even without trading everyone off like they should have when they dealt Harden. They also could have had Levert on a very reasonable contract instead of trying to overpay Oladipo on an extension that they were probably lucky he turned down.
 
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Jimbodandy

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Rockets have now lost 12 straight and have the 3rd worst record in the NBA, good chance they end up keeping their draft pick this year even without trading everyone off like they should have when they dealt Harden. They also could have had Levert on a very reasonable contract instead of trying to overpay Oladipo on an extension that they were probably lucky he turned down.
They have to be betting that someone gives them something for VO at the deadline. His play has been pretty damn spotty, but it only takes one partner.
 

BigSoxFan

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They have to be betting that someone gives them something for VO at the deadline. His play has been pretty damn spotty, but it only takes one partner.
He has shot like absolute crap in Houston. 39% overall and 30% from 3, all on big volume. 0.4 win shares for the entire season and 0.0 in Houston. They may get something but it won't be much. Looks like he turned down 2/45 extension from Houston, which is the most they can offer in season. Can't imagine Houston would be excited about extending him longer in the offseason but who knows.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30981753/sources-victor-oladipo-turned-2-year-452-million-extension-houston-rockets
 

cheech13

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Maybe I’m overreacting to how bad Oladipo has been this year but I was surprised he turned down that extension. Is it that much of a lock that he will get more in the off-season?
 

HomeRunBaker

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They have to be betting that someone gives them something for VO at the deadline. His play has been pretty damn spotty, but it only takes one partner.
VO’s game should fit in well with some contenders like Denver or Philly. For a guy like him I think he’d fetch more at the deadline than in a SnT over the summer.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Maybe I’m overreacting to how bad Oladipo has been this year but I was surprised he turned down that extension. Is it that much of a lock that he will get more in the off-season?
Yes the FA market is thin and GMs surely recognize that his numbers in Hou as a #1 option with godawful teammates isn’t a reflection of what he can bring to their team.
 

Jimbodandy

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VO’s game should fit in well with some contenders like Denver or Philly. For a guy like him I think he’d fetch more at the deadline than in a SnT over the summer.
That's my thought too, and guessing theirs. Someone to dream on the good Oladipo and not how he has been lately. Some contender might see him as the missing piece.

We all saw how thin some teams got in the bubble.
 

scottyno

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They have to be betting that someone gives them something for VO at the deadline. His play has been pretty damn spotty, but it only takes one partner.
Whatever they get, if anything, will be far worse than just keeping Levert and his 2-35 remaining. Partnering Levert with Wood and a potential top 4 pick would be a decent core to build around.
 

Jimbodandy

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Whatever they get, if anything, will be far worse than just keeping Levert and his 2-35 remaining. Partnering Levert with Wood and a potential top 4 pick would be a decent core to build around.
But it could be as simple as wanting to bottom out further and have more picks. I love LeVert too. It's a head scratcher.
 

BigSoxFan

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Whatever they get, if anything, will be far worse than just keeping Levert and his 2-35 remaining. Partnering Levert with Wood and a potential top 4 pick would be a decent core to build around.
Speaking of LeVert, sounds like he's coming back after the all-star break or soon after. Great to see. Indy really needs him now that Warren is out indefinitely.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Suns/Lakers getting super testy. Booker ejected, Ayton talking shit to LeBron and everyone on both sides jawing back and forth at each other. If this were the 80’s I’d be expecting a cocaine-induced bench clearing brawl.
 

128

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So, perhaps my statement that the Chris Paul-led Suns are really good wasn't as misinformed as several posters seemed to think.

Not only do the Suns have top-shelf talent in Paul, Booker and Ayton (and Bridges), they have a deep bench.
 

Kliq

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The Suns look great. I think people figured that CP3 and Booker were a good combination that would play well; but the depth, particularly at the wing position with Bridges, Johnson and Crowder, they have three big wings that can shoot and defend. Off the bench, Saric KILLED the Lakers down the stretch last night. Obviously its a different story if Davis is playing, but it's a nice wrinkle to have.

Phoenix's bench is shooting lights out from three right now; Cameron Payne (40%), Frank Kaminsky (42%) Abdel Nader (39%) and Langston Galloway (45%) have all been very good shooting the ball this year.

They are playing really well defensively, jumping from 17th in D-Rating last year to 6th this year. With two good creators and a collection of 3&D wings, they are going to be a tough out. Ayton is the X-factor, he has played well in his role, but he is only taking 10 shots a game and he needs to improve on defense. He is obviously the person who you expect to make a leap forward that would take them to the next level.
 

BigSoxFan

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The Suns look great. I think people figured that CP3 and Booker were a good combination that would play well; but the depth, particularly at the wing position with Bridges, Johnson and Crowder, they have three big wings that can shoot and defend. Off the bench, Saric KILLED the Lakers down the stretch last night. Obviously its a different story if Davis is playing, but it's a nice wrinkle to have.

Phoenix's bench is shooting lights out from three right now; Cameron Payne (40%), Frank Kaminsky (42%) Abdel Nader (39%) and Langston Galloway (45%) have all been very good shooting the ball this year.

They are playing really well defensively, jumping from 17th in D-Rating last year to 6th this year. With two good creators and a collection of 3&D wings, they are going to be a tough out. Ayton is the X-factor, he has played well in his role, but he is only taking 10 shots a game and he needs to improve on defense. He is obviously the person who you expect to make a leap forward that would take them to the next level.
Suns 40:1 odds to win it all right now. Seems like great odds for a team that is going to be dangerous as hell is CP3 stays healthy, an admittedly big “if”.
 

terrynever

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Best game ever for Embiid, who hit a 3 under duress with 6 seconds left to send the game into OT. Then Tobias Harris scored all 11 points in OT for Philly, working a mismatch on Bogdanovic, just backing him down. Playoff hoops. Tobias looked like Jimmy Buckets.
Embiid with 40 and 19. He has five games of 40 plus and at least 10 rebounds this season. Rest of the league has four.
Jazz hit 21 of 42 threes and still lost. Donovan Mitchell lost his cool in OT, drew two techs, knocked over a trash can on the way into the tunnel, apologized to the doorman who almost got hit. Mitch then knocked over a water cooler for good measure.
I watched on the 76ers feed. A crime this one wasn’t available on national TV.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Mighty Jazz fall to 27-9. Suns #2 in the NBA at 23-11. No one else with more than twice as many wins as losses.

Still can’t quite comprehend how 73-9 is a thing that happened. With LeBron, KD, Kawhi, Harden, CP3 all at their absolute peaks, no less .
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Mitchell’s displeasure continued after the game, blaming the refs for the loss and saying the league should do something about it:

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/PaoloUggetti/status/1367307796895559687

Paolo Uggetti
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Donovan Mitchell just went off on the officials. “We won this game in my opinion … It’s getting fucking ridiculous.” Says the Jazz "continually get screwed” and that the league needs to “do something about this.”

Edit: Here's more of the quote:

"First off, you know, give the 76ers credit. They played a hard game. Joel [Embiid] did what he does, and at the end of the day, they're a good team. We competed. But it's tough. It's tough to go out there and see how we fight and compete, and to have a game like that taken from us," Mitchell said following Wednesday night's contest.

"Now, I'm never ever one to blame a ref, to blame an official -- I can say I could have done more -- but this is getting out of hand. There have been games like this that we've won; there have been games like this that we've lost. But this whole refereeing stuff. ... We're nice, we don't complain, like, we don't get frustrated, we fight through things, and the fact that we continually get ... screwed, in a way, by this. You know?"

"We won this game, in my personal opinion. You know?" Mitchell continued. "But like I said, I'm going to give them credit. They won. Whatever. Cool. But it's been a consistent thing, and the question is, 'Can we do it? Can we sustain it? Are we for real No. 1? And, yeah, the hell we are. And it's getting f---ing ridiculous that this is what is happening."
 
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BigSoxFan

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Mitchell’s displeasure continued after the game, blaming the refs for the loss and saying the league should do something about it:

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/PaoloUggetti/status/1367307796895559687

Paolo Uggetti
@PaoloUggetti

Donovan Mitchell just went off on the officials. “We won this game in my opinion … It’s getting fucking ridiculous.” Says the Jazz "continually get screwed” and that the league needs to “do something about this.”

Edit: Here's more of the quote:

"First off, you know, give the 76ers credit. They played a hard game. Joel [Embiid] did what he does, and at the end of the day, they're a good team. We competed. But it's tough. It's tough to go out there and see how we fight and compete, and to have a game like that taken from us," Mitchell said following Wednesday night's contest.

"Now, I'm never ever one to blame a ref, to blame an official -- I can say I could have done more -- but this is getting out of hand. There have been games like this that we've won; there have been games like this that we've lost. But this whole refereeing stuff. ... We're nice, we don't complain, like, we don't get frustrated, we fight through things, and the fact that we continually get ... screwed, in a way, by this. You know?"

"We won this game, in my personal opinion. You know?" Mitchell continued. "But like I said, I'm going to give them credit. They won. Whatever. Cool. But it's been a consistent thing, and the question is, 'Can we do it? Can we sustain it? Are we for real No. 1? And, yeah, the hell we are. And it's getting f---ing ridiculous that this is what is happening."
I liked one of the Twitter responses calling him QAnonovan Mitchell
 

Kliq

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I didn't see the game and I know Embiid is the worst officiated player in basketball, so I can only imagine what it was like, but Mitchell sounds like 1997 Bret Hart.
 

Jimbodandy

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I didn't see the game and I know Embiid is the worst officiated player in basketball, so I can only imagine what it was like, but Mitchell sounds like 1997 Bret Hart.
The refs didn't shoot 12 for 34, Mitchell did.

I can see the fury of going up against Embiid though. As good as he is, the flailing and flopping and resultant calls is painful to watch, let alone to play against. After watching Joel bully people and get touch foul calls all game, I can understand the Captain Queeg routine a little.
 

lovegtm

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Apropos of nothing, every year there's a "Giannis can shoot the 3 now, watch out!" meme. Randomly decided to look it up for the past 4 years...oof.

Makes/Attempts/%
2017-18: 0.6/1.9/.307
2018-19: 0.7/2.8/.256
2019-20: 1.4/4.7/.304
2020-21: 1.1/4.0/.279
 

HowBoutDemSox

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It's hard to judge in a vacuum, without seeing how they called similar contact the other way; as others have said, I'm always dubious of how Emiid is officiated, but would need to see more clips. The offensive foul on Mitchell is probably the most eye catching if you're looking for a bad active call rather than swallowing a whistle, the call would have been for hooking Simmon's arm as he made the spin move, but even on a slowed down clip, it's hard to say that was an intentional move and not just what happens when two long-armed players are engaged like that.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXw8H6tYxTM
 

bigq

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Apropos of nothing, every year there's a "Giannis can shoot the 3 now, watch out!" meme. Randomly decided to look it up for the past 4 years...oof.

Makes/Attempts/%
2017-18: 0.6/1.9/.307
2018-19: 0.7/2.8/.256
2019-20: 1.4/4.7/.304
2020-21: 1.1/4.0/.279
Someone upthread commented on Russell Westbrook’s poor proficiency from three.

Here is how he stacks up:

2017-18: 1.2/4.1/.298
2018-19: 1.6/5.6/.290
2019-20: 1.0/3.7/.258
2020-21: 1.1/3.8/.286