NBA 20/21 season thread

Cellar-Door

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He hit 37% of them last year on 6/game, and drastically overhauled his form. The expectation was that he’d be able to keep progressing.

I’m a Lonzo hater, but I think there’s still an interesting player there, and his shot has a reasonable base to work from now.
He shot like garbage on all non-3 jumpers though, and his FTs were still bad. It looks a lot like an outlier number from a bad shooter.
 

BigSoxFan

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You have to include Kemba in the deal is the reality. Given they have Westbrook in place, that basically means you'd need a three-way deal.

I really can't see a construction that would get us there---finally out of all that juicy draft-pick capital.
I'd almost think it would have to be a 4 team deal. Celtics send Kemba to WAS for salary matching and WAS moves him for something (Knicks?). Celtics send Smart to WAS for additional value and WAS sends him somewhere else (Warriors?) for assets. Celtics unload 2 or 3 of the PP, Nesmith, Langford group to WAS along with some future picks. Clearly a longshot but I'm a bit of a dreamer like that.
 

OurF'ingCity

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I'd almost think it would have to be a 4 team deal. Celtics send Kemba to WAS for salary matching and WAS moves him for something (Knicks?). Celtics send Smart to WAS for additional value and WAS sends him somewhere else (Warriors?) for assets. Celtics unload 2 or 3 of the PP, Nesmith, Langford group to WAS along with some future picks. Clearly a longshot but I'm a bit of a dreamer like that.
Would that even improve the team that much? Don't get me wrong Beal is really good but adding Beal but then subtracting Kemba, Smart, and two of the promising young guys, plus picks, would clearly hurt them cap-wise going forward and would hurt their depth this year (among other things it would mean Jeff Teague is their starting PG, or maybe Pritchard if he wasn't part of the trade). Maybe that's the kind of opportunity you can't turn down anyway given how much of a stars' league it is, but I wouldn't be jumping up and down with glee if that was what happened.

It's all a thought exercise, of course, since there are very likely to be more attractive, more straightforward packages other teams can put together.
 

nighthob

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is there any way to take on Beal or is his salary being 100k over the trade exception make that impossible?
There are ways around it, for example they could take Otto Porter into the TPE and use that as the trade ballast (but I think that would take another week or two since the Wiz dealt him last year in February and I think you need to wait a year before re-acquiring a player) combined with Langford/Nesmith and picks. Now you do need to put together a pick package, so you would definitely see what could be put together with the Knicks for Kemba now that he's playing again and looking healthy.
 

NomarsFool

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I don’t believe they can send along a player with the TPE. So, I don’t think there is any way to get Beal. Besides, I don’t think we’d match up because we are not trading Jaylen and no one else is that valuable to them.
 

nighthob

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I don’t believe they can send along a player with the TPE. So, I don’t think there is any way to get Beal. Besides, I don’t think we’d match up because we are not trading Jaylen and no one else is that valuable to them.
No, you send Chicago a second round pick for Porter, Porter then becomes salary ballast in a Beal trade because he makes $27 million and fits into the Hayward deal (the actual mechanism is called a non-simultaneous trade, when Boston traded Hayward they reserved the right to take back as much salary at a later date). So, in trade mechanics Boston sends a pick to Chicago for Porter to complete the Hayward deal, and then bundles him with whatever to Washington for Beal.
 

Apisith

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Let's discuss Bradley Beal. His wife's tweet today is going to start a lot of rumors. Beal has 2 years to go after this year, one of those a player option which he'll decline. He'll hit the market after the end of next season, at 29. He'll command the Supermax, which IMO he won't deserve but someone will give it to him. He's entering the prime years of his career and he's becoming a legitimate #1 option. He's a volume scorer and has increased his efficiency. The Wizards will ask for a Harden-type picks-heavy haul and then start tanking with Russ (who's washed up).

Which teams can reasonably give them this? I think these are the top contenders for him, not based in any order:
- Nuggets: deal centered around MPJ and Harris plus picks. Nuggets get a third prime-time scorer who will dovetail nicely with Murray and Jokic's prime.
- Warriors: Wiseman and maybe Green and a lot of unprotected future picks ('25/'26/'27). This puts the Warriors in win-now mode for the next 3 years, which is basically the rest of Steph and Klay's prime. I don't think the Warriors will do it because there's no certainty over whether Klay will be the same when he's back.
- 76ers: Simmons plus a lot of picks. 76ers get someone that matches better with Embiid.

Raptors and Heat could make a play if they're willing to mortgage their future but they don't seem good enough right now, so I'm not sure if Beal pushes them over the top.
 

BigSoxFan

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Let's discuss Bradley Beal. His wife's tweet today is going to start a lot of rumors. Beal has 2 years to go after this year, one of those a player option which he'll decline. He'll hit the market after the end of next season, at 29. He'll command the Supermax, which IMO he won't deserve but someone will give it to him. He's entering the prime years of his career and he's becoming a legitimate #1 option. He's a volume scorer and has increased his efficiency. The Wizards will ask for a Harden-type picks-heavy haul and then start tanking with Russ (who's washed up).

Which teams can reasonably give them this? I think these are the top contenders for him, not based in any order:
- Nuggets: deal centered around MPJ and Harris plus picks. Nuggets get a third prime-time scorer who will dovetail nicely with Murray and Jokic's prime.
- Warriors: Wiseman and maybe Green and a lot of unprotected future picks ('25/'26/'27). This puts the Warriors in win-now mode for the next 3 years, which is basically the rest of Steph and Klay's prime. I don't think the Warriors will do it because there's no certainty over whether Klay will be the same when he's back.
- 76ers: Simmons plus a lot of picks. 76ers get someone that matches better with Embiid.

Raptors and Heat could make a play if they're willing to mortgage their future but they don't seem good enough right now, so I'm not sure if Beal pushes them over the top.
Nuggets and Sixers seem like the obvious fits here to me. Sixers could offer basically the same rumored deal for Harden (Simmons/Maxey/picks) but that would create a big fit problem with Westbrook and Simmons. To mitigate that, the Sixers could offer Harris/Simmons for Westbrook/Beal. That would be a major deal and they're playing pretty well right now so not sure Morey would be looking to shake things up that much. But, if you can take back Westbrook AND offer a guy like Simmons, you're an attractive bidder.

The Nuggets' expected offer of Porter Jr./Harris filler/picks would also be competitive as well. Porter Jr. is 2 years younger than Simmons and obviously much cheaper for now so he might have more appeal to an obviously-rebuilding team. He looks like a 23-25ppg scorer with greater volume right now. This would allow Washington to build around Porter Jr., Avdija, Hachimura, Bryant, and a likely top 4 2021 draftee like Cunningham/Mobley/Suggs/Kuminga. That's a pretty good foundation to work off of.

A longer shot would be San Antonio. They have tons of expiring deals so matching salary would not be difficult. An offer built around Devin Vassell/Keldon Johnson/expiring salaries/multiple picks wouldn't be the sexiest offer but it might be worthy of consideration if Philly/Denver aren't ready to shake up their teams. I am especially impressed with Keldon Johnson's progression. He is looking like a major steal for SA.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Shams reporting that the Knicks are working on a deal for Derrick Rose:
The New York Knicks are engaged in active talks to acquire the Pistons guard, a move that would reunite the former league MVP with head coach Tom Thibodeau, sources tell The Athletic.

The Pistons and Rose mutually agreed that a trade would be best for both sides, per sources. While there is a great deal of respect for one another, the rebuilding Pistons plan to increase their usage of young players as the season progresses, according to those sources. Rose, meanwhile, has continued to show on the floor that he could improve a team that is in title or playoff contention.
https://theathletic.com/2371779/2021/02/06/derrick-rose-trade-to-knicks-coming-what-we-know-so-far-and-why-it-matters/
 

BigSoxFan

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Good move for the Knicks. Smith might be out of the league soon. Never developed the shot he needed.
 

BigSoxFan

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Knicks in win now mode? Can't see Rose fitting a long term build plan. Smith certainly isn't a cost, value will depend on the picks.
Have to imagine it’s a heavily-protected first that probably converts into a couple of 2nds or something like that. We’ll see. Agree that this is a marginal improvement but I think the Knicks realize that they can make the playoffs this year and then use that as a way to market their improvement. They’re obviously a LONG ways away from contention but have to start somewhere.
 

jon abbey

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It’s Charlotte’s second round pick this year, leaving NY with their 1st round pick, DAL’s first round pick and ironically DET’s second round puck this year.

Don’t like the deal because if I ran NY, they would never trade picks, especially for 50 games of Derrick Rose.
 

EvilEmpire

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The Rose trade is a modest improvement at small cost and no big deal. If it is enough to keep Celtics fans from fantasizing about dumping Kemba Walker on the Knicks, it's a big win.
 

Tony C

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Yep, there's nothing wrong with a mediocre team trying to scrape into the playoffs. Rose is a small amount of help for a very small ambition -- no cost and it might help reverse an incredibly losing culture.
 

benhogan

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As long as it doesn’t cost Quickley minutes, but it will.
If it gives the Knicks/Thibs a 1% better chance of winning a regular-season game that's much more important than developing a future star that will be there for the next 4 seasons on the cheap o_O
 

BigSoxFan

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radsoxfan

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Seems like a buyout for Griffin unless another team ships them something equally terrible (not too many things worse than 39M for Blake next year). And hard to see why Detroit would want something had thats even longer term.

Kemba gets a lot grief over here but he still has a higher likelihood of being an above average NBA player than Blake.

Would Griffin help the Celtics on a vet minimum deal? I doubt it, he probably doesn't do anything well enough at this point in his career. Pretty sad since we definitely need the bench help.
 

Ale Xander

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Western Conference basketball, specially Utah, Dallas and Denver, is so much more entertaining to me than the Eastern Conference nowadays. It kind of sucks as a Celtics fan to not see these teams that much but I will start to now, even at the expense of the Celtics.
 

ElUno20

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On a serious note about Blake, unless he's been faking it, he basically cannot move anymore. Hard to see how much he has left
 

PedroKsBambino

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I have to think Griffen's best shot at continuing his career is as a kind of point-forward off the bench. If he's a creator and 3 point shooter for a second unit for 20 min a game he's useful---but he really doesn't seem physically able to be more than that anymore.

I agree with others, seems like a buyout and move back to LA is almost inevitable. Why on earty would anyone touch that contract? Ironically, the best "bad contract" trade fit is for Drummond...but we can be pretty confident Detroit doesn't want Drummond back.
 

Euclis20

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On a serious note about Blake, unless he's been faking it, he basically cannot move anymore. Hard to see how much he has left
Him not having a single dunk 20 games into the season is one of the most remarkable stats I've ever seen. This is a guy who racked up nearly 800 dunks in his first 4 seasons. When these uber athletic power forwards (Griffin is in the same category as Stoudemire and Kemp) lose it, it happens very very fast.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Clearly you did not sufficiently burn the leg of your AD effigy. ;-)

Seriously, if I’m a Lakers fan I’m not exactly doing jigs to this news. AD is an extremely large man with an already checkered injury past who somehow always seems one step (literally) from a serious lower body injury, and is now dealing with the same ominous “calf strain” issues that plagued KD before his Achilles blew. My sense is they’re gonna need to tread *really* carefully here.

Paging Rad Sox Fan...
 

nighthob

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I agree with others, seems like a buyout and move back to LA is almost inevitable. Why on earty would anyone touch that contract? Ironically, the best "bad contract" trade fit is for Drummond...but we can be pretty confident Detroit doesn't want Drummond back.
But mostly because the cost of turning $65 million of Blake Griffin into $19 million worth of Andre Drummond would be their 2021 lottery pick.
 

TripleOT

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Griffin hasn’t been much of a dunker for years. One dunk every 100 minutes last season(5), and one every 70 minutes the season before (38).

He’s got $39 million coming to him next season, and the rest of his $37 million from this season. Why would he agree to cull more than a couple million off this year’s money, and whatever he could expect to make as a FA next season ($5m?)?

He’s not as good as minimum pay mid-season ring chasers like Markief Morris. The Celtics could give him second unit minutes, except for the fact that he can’t defend or score efficiency anymore, and doesn’t rebound. Pretty sad that he’s not even 32 yet and he’s toast.
 

BigSoxFan

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Griffin hasn’t been much of a dunker for years. One dunk every 100 minutes last season(5), and one every 70 minutes the season before (38).

He’s got $39 million coming to him next season, and the rest of his $37 million from this season. Why would he agree to cull more than a couple million off this year’s money, and whatever he could expect to make as a FA next season ($5m?)?

He’s not as good as minimum pay mid-season ring chasers like Markief Morris. The Celtics could give him second unit minutes, except for the fact that he can’t defend or score efficiency anymore, and doesn’t rebound. Pretty sad that he’s not even 32 yet and he’s toast.
Griffin will have made $260M+ in his career after next season. I could see him taking a small haircut to facilitate being cut and picking his next/final stop. Would be kind of meaningless even if it worked out since he’s not going to be a key cog in any title run but probably worth trying at least. He’s so bad now that I probably wouldn’t take him for free.
 

radsoxfan

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Clearly you did not sufficiently burn the leg of your AD effigy. ;-)

Seriously, if I’m a Lakers fan I’m not exactly doing jigs to this news. AD is an extremely large man with an already checkered injury past who somehow always seems one step (literally) from a serious lower body injury, and is now dealing with the same ominous “calf strain” issues that plagued KD before his Achilles blew. My sense is they’re gonna need to tread *really* carefully here.

Paging Rad Sox Fan...
This is about what I expected, the Laker's would have known clinically if there was a reason to be super concerned for a high grade tear even before getting the MRI.

I did get some Durant "calf strain" vibes as well, and the Lakers can afford to be very cautious in the regular season. I wouldn't be surprised if he is out a month or more.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Him not having a single dunk 20 games into the season is one of the most remarkable stats I've ever seen. This is a guy who racked up nearly 800 dunks in his first 4 seasons. When these uber athletic power forwards (Griffin is in the same category as Stoudemire and Kemp) lose it, it happens very very fast.
Griffin was having arguably the best all-around year of his career just two seasons ago before the knee problems began to take their toll too.
 

EvilEmpire

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Yeah, those 19 mpg that Quickley is getting looks to be running him into the ground.
It was a tongue in cheek comment about Thibodeau overworking players, a concern some Knicks fans had when he was hired.

The Knicks are improving, but they aren't going anywhere this year. I'm fine with how Thibs is bringing Quickley along and developing him.
 
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HomeRunBaker

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It was a tongue in cheek comment about Thibodeaux overworking players, a concern some Knicks fans had when he was hired.

The Knicks are improving, but they aren't going anywhere this year. I'm fine with how Thibs is bringing Quickley along and developing him.
Same here.....only having some fun. I’m a proponent of having young’s earn their minutes off the bench on veteran teams. It’s weird to think of this Knicks team as “veteran” but they aren’t your typical young-20’s rebuilding team.
 

EvilEmpire

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Same here.....only having some fun. I’m a proponent of having young’s earn their minutes off the bench on veteran teams. It’s weird to think of this Knicks team as “veteran” but they aren’t your typical young-20’s rebuilding team.
Gotcha. I agree about earning minutes off the bench. And with Thibodeau, those minutes are probably earned in good part with defense, and I like that for young players as they learn and develop in the league.

I don't get to see many Knicks games where I'm at, but from afar I'm encouraged that the organization is moving in the right direction with front office and coaching.

Of course expectations are modest. They have to be.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Ok it’s Trivia Time!! NO cheating!! (Or comments that would give hints!!) In another thread there was discussion about the Celtics defense being more of an issue than the offense.....how much was Smart, how much two-big lineup, etc and I was curious where we were with defending the 3-point shot (6th in league at 32.1%).

There are 4 teams this season allowing opponents to shoot 3’s above 38%. There was only one team to allow >38% last year as well as this season.

TRIVIA QUESTION - Name the one team who has held opponents to Under 30% 3-point shooting in each of the last two seasons to this point. (To narrow field I will list the Top-5 and Bottom-5 in this category).

Bonus Question Uno - Name the Top-3 defenders of the 3 out of this group.

Bonus Question Dos - Which of these teams is the one to allow >38% both years to this point?


Minnesota
Toronto
Miami
Phoenix
Utah
New Orleans
Atlanta
Milwaukee
Chicago
Charlotte

Answers will be posted later tonight. And go.......
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Ok it’s Trivia Time!! NO cheating!! (Or comments that would give hints!!) In another thread there was discussion about the Celtics defense being more of an issue than the offense.....how much was Smart, how much two-big lineup, etc and I was curious where we were with defending the 3-point shot (6th in league at 32.1%).

There are 4 teams this season allowing opponents to shoot 3’s above 38%. There was only one team to allow >38% last year as well as this season.

TRIVIA QUESTION - Name the one team who has held opponents to Under 30% 3-point shooting in each of the last two seasons to this point. (To narrow field I will list the Top-5 and Bottom-5 in this category).

Bonus Question Uno - Name the Top-3 defenders of the 3 out of this group.

Bonus Question Dos - Which of these teams is the one to allow >38% both years to this point?


Minnesota
Toronto
Miami
Phoenix
Utah
New Orleans
Atlanta
Milwaukee
Chicago
Charlotte

Answers will be posted later tonight. And go.......
I was curious and didn't want to wait for the answer. I'm not seeing the opp 3p% numbers you're seeing...where did I go wrong?

 

JCizzle

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I'll guess
Utah
for the first question.

I'm going to guess
Milwaukee. I thought their approach was to give up the 3 by going underneath screens as a default
for bonus question dos.