NBA Free Agency Game Thread

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
The more I look, there are too many exceptions to think arm length has much to do with shot.
Oh, yeah, I wouldn’t buy that part. I was more commenting on people that think that wingspan can be looked at in a vacuum. Kendrick Perkins had an obscene wingspan, in part because he was so bloody wide. But he was also a bloody marshwiggle, all arms and legs. Guys like Jae Crowder have elite wingspans, but not due to the arm length so much as the breadth from shoulder to shoulder. 6’5” guys with a +4 wingspan should have a better than 8’3” standing reach unless they’re built like NFL defensive linemen.
 
Last edited:

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Neither a here or there.....But....
I wonder if Shorter arms are a function and not a bug. Like "shorter Guys are better shooters" (both FT and regular).

Less "moving parts" if you will.

Is this a universal absolute? Of course not. But shorter arms may lend themselves to more repeatable shot mechanics???

Young will make alot of money playing half the Game of BB.

Those numbers are hilarious BTW. I wonder what a guy who just stood still would get for a rating.
I’d compare it to weightlifting where the shorter arms cause less wasted motion and better form. In the case of shooting a basketball this fits perfectly with free throw shooting which is a stationary movement with muscle memory built off repitions. Shooting in game flow is trickier as this type of shooter would generally be best when stationary with space or he won’t get off a clean look, rush shot, etc.

So give me the Calvin Murphy and Scott Skiles of the world at the FT line but I’ll take Durant and Dirk to be able to get their shot off against anyone in game flow.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Yes, and my point is that it is not that it is an imperfect overall comparison it is that it is wildely inaccurate. That said, if your point is that they are similar offensively (and you note leading the league in scoring) that's totally reasonable. But defensively these guys are not in the same universe and that matters a great deal.
They aren't in the same universe but I think our opinion of Iverson's defense isn't either. At best, Iverson was passable. At worst, hideable. Trae Young could be historically bad.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Yeah, what? “Grant has short arms” is...a take, I suppose.
There's this scouting report that has him at 6'7.5 height, 6"9.75 wingspan. 8'8.5 standing reach. That would give him TRex arms by NBA standards for wingspan and reach.

View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841080-grant-williams-2019-nba-draft-scouting-report-analysis-of-celtics-pick


Most have him at 6'5-6'6 and a 6'10-6'11 wingspan, and 8'8.5. That would give him above average arm length in both wingspan and reach.

The average NBA player has standing reach of 1.335 times their height and a wingspan of +4 inches.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,667
They aren't in the same universe but I think our opinion of Iverson's defense isn't either. At best, Iverson was passable. At worst, hideable. Trae Young could be historically bad.
There is also a huge difference in the approach to basketball between 2000 and 2020. The game was played more at the rim, so having a great rim protector behind Iverson (first Theo Ratliff and then Dikembe) made a big difference as far as a team's overall defensive value. Perimeter defense was not nearly as important as it is now, and teams didn't put Iverson in a screening situation every time down like they do with Young. The amount of off-the-dribble pull-up threes taken in 2020 is insanely high compared to 2000, and if you can't fight through them you are going to be killed. That simply wasn't the case in 2020. The era of super-sized ball handlers also was not as prevalent, almost every team had a Iverson-sized player on the court at all times, as opposed to 2020 when a lot of times play lineups with nobody under 6'6".

I can't find the direct quote, but I remember Iverson talking about the 2000-2001 76ers, who ranked fifth in defense, and he talked about how unselfish everyone on that team was, that he was a bad defender and everyone worked really hard on that end to allow him to just chill and jump passing lanes while guarding the worst player on the other team, so he can save his energy for carrying the load on offense. If you look at that team, it is really full of offensively-challenged players who could really play defense: Dikembe, George Lynch, Snow, Aaron McKie, Ratliff.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
There's this scouting report that has him at 6'7.5 height, 6"9.75 wingspan. 8'8.5 standing reach. That would give him TRex arms by NBA standards for wingspan and reach.

Most have him at 6'5-6'6 and a 6'10-6'11 wingspan, and 8'8.5. That would give him above average arm length in both wingspan and reach.
Grant Williams, according to NBA pre-draft measurements, is 6’5-3/4” (in his bare feet) with a +4 wingspan.
 

Buster Olney the Lonely

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2006
4,517
Atlanta, GA
Trae’s biggest issue on defense, IMO, is getting around screens. Set a pick on him and he’s done.

I probably go to 8-10 Hawks games a year and when it looked like Luka would fall to Atlanta at three, I was set on getting a season ticket package because going to hoops in person is about my favorite thing to do. And it would be fun to have a real superstar here in Atlanta. Ahh what might have been. Screw you, Travis Schlenk!

Trae’s still pretty fun to watch though—that low release point with the super quick release. And the passing.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,667
Trae’s biggest issue on defense, IMO, is getting around screens. Set a pick on him and he’s done.

I probably go to 8-10 Hawks games a year and when it looked like Luka would fall to Atlanta at three, I was set on getting a season ticket package because going to hoops in person is about my favorite thing to do. And it would be fun to have a real superstar here in Atlanta. Ahh what might have been. Screw you, Travis Schlenk!

Trae’s still pretty fun to watch though—that low release point with the super quick release. And the passing.
With the exception of @Conigliaro's Potential I might be the biggest Ice Trae fan here. I love watching him and he was very efficient last year, with a 60% TS%. Last season he became the third player ever to be 6'1" or shorter and average at least 9 FTA per game, after Tiny Archibald and Allen Iverson. He is basically like a mini-Harden. If Atlanta wants to build around him, they are going to need to surround him with big wings and strong defensive players, as well as have a very disciplined system that protects him as best as possible. They haven't done that yet, but it can be done.
 

oumbi

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 15, 2006
4,167
We’re certainly hoping this is true for Grant Williams, who makes a T-Rex look like Inspector Gadget.
What I found for G Will was a 6'11" wing span. For players selected in the 2019 draft, SF averaged exactly that, 6'11". PF averaged 6'11.5".

So how close to T-Rex range G Will may be seems to be up for discussion.

http://www.draftexpress.com/average-measurements-by-position/2019/NBA+Draft+Combine/all/60/
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/grant-williams/
 

bakahump

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 8, 2001
7,518
Maine
Yea I am a 1.06
For a 5"10 White guy with 6'1 wing span. thats pretty ape-ish. And I look like Robert Parish when i shoot. All coiled behind my head. Thats what made me thing about it. Never been able to shoot "like a real player".
Again these guys are also the top 2% of tallest humans on the planet. So they are probably going to have long arms in relation to their bodies regardless and be able to Use longer arms in a mechanical motion with less issues (if that makes sense). And there is a reason why Durant with +6 has become one of the 5-10 best BB players on the planet. Because in game matters. So while having +-0 or "around there" may give you .005% (some similar number) better chance at becoming a good shooter being able to shoot over anyone guarding you gives you .1% better chance of being a better basketball player. And being 6'5 plus gives you a 30% chance.
Like i said it sounds like (anecdotally) it could be a very very small piece of a much bigger puzzle.
You add that .005 + .064 (because you can shoot over MOST people) and 30% for being 6'7 and Voila you have Jae Crowder or something.
 

HowBoutDemSox

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2009
10,103
What I found for G Will was a 6'11" wing span. For players selected in the 2019 draft, SF averaged exactly that, 6'11". PF averaged 6'11.5".

So how close to T-Rex range G Will may be seems to be up for discussion.

http://www.draftexpress.com/average-measurements-by-position/2019/NBA+Draft+Combine/all/60/
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/grant-williams/
I had see the 6’9.75" number (the Ringer’s draft guide had that number, among other places), which struck me as short, especially as someone who might project as a power forward/big wing. Part of that is probably reinforced by nighthob’s point about effective length and his arm length relative to his general body width.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
What I found for G Will was a 6'11" wing span. For players selected in the 2019 draft, SF averaged exactly that, 6'11". PF averaged 6'11.5".

So how close to T-Rex range G Will may be seems to be up for discussion.
Please look here for official measurements. Gwilly is 6'5-3/4" tall with a +4 wingspan.
 

bakahump

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 8, 2001
7,518
Maine
Yea I thought that was the number I heard.
Decent enough arms.
He is more Stegasaurus then Trex. Not tall enough and cant jump. If he was 1-2 inches taller and had 2-3 on his vert ......we never would have been able to pick him at 22.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588