NBA planning midseason tourney?

[DJnVa]

This is...different: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2131087-adam-silver-says-nba-is-considering-midseason-tournament
 
gary washburn @GwashburnGlobe Follow

Silver said the league is considering the idea of a midseason tournament, similar to soccer. Interesting. #nba

 

 
Provided that the NBA makes tweaks to the schedule and doesn't force players to participate in 82 games on top of another tournament, this proposition could work well. If not, there would be too much wear and tear on even the best teams by the time the playoffs hit, thus decreasing the quality of basketball.
 

 

 

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

This has the potential to be a really great addition. The goal should be to replicate the FA cup; they could include D-League teams in the initial draws, and then host the final 8 or 16 or whatever in Vegas as they've discussed.

 

[DJnVa]

For this to work, he'll need to tie some kind of incentive to it.

 
They wanna hold it in Vegas. Vegas.

 

[ifmanis5]

Simmons has a 'I told ya so' boner right now.

 

[Brickowski]

Pardon my ignorance, but how do they do it in soccer?  And why?

 

[Jeff Van GULLY]

This is great if it actually means something other than some pointless trophy.  Does the winner get a guaranteed playoff seed?  A draft pick in the lottery?  There are so many great incentives the NBA could come up with to make the teams and players care about the tournament.
 
Also, if that meant cutting down the regular season by 5-10 games and replacing it with this I would be all for it.   

 

[DJnVa]

Pardon my ignorance, but how do they do it in soccer?  And why?

 
Well, they don't actually have a mid-season tourney that takes place all at once like I believe they're talking about.
 
They have other tourneys that run concurrently with the season. They may have a league game on Saturday, then a game in the tourney on Wednesday against a team from a lower league, then other league game on Saturday, etc. So, I think the "similar to soccer" is bad phrasing.
 
It seems like this tourney would just be with other NBA teams--not sure how they kick that up to make it worth anything. In soccer, you could have one of the huge teams playing a team 3 levels below them. The US doesn't really have a basketball structure like that. It would be the equivalent of the Red Sox playing a game against some independent minor league team like the Long Island Ducks or whatever.
 
If this is some extra Pistons versus Warriors tourney--well, who cares? Like said above, what's the incentive?

 

[Infield Infidel]

Pardon my ignorance, but how do they do it in soccer?  And why?

 
in England, the FA Cup is a knockout tournament, goes on during the season, and includes basically every team in the country, about 750 or so, including amateurs and semi-pro teams. Smaller teams play the first few rounds and then teams from the top few leagues are introduce along the way (leagues usually have have 20-24 teams). Usually by the round of 32 there are only teams from the top two leagues with maybe a few lower league teams that had lucky draws* or huge upsets. Each game is knockout until the quarters or semis (can't remember) where it's a home and home playoff. It ends normally in a neutral site final near the end of the season.
 
*The teams are drawn at random, there is no seeding. Larger teams aren't entered until later on, but once they are entered they could play another big team.
 
I don't think they could have non NBA teams in this, it would be very hard to organize. the FA is very top down in organization compared to USA Basketball, with specific windows in the calendar when cup matches can be played
 
If the NBA wanted to do this and have a final 16 over a week in Vegas, it would be amazing. With 30 teams, I'd think the two teams from the previous year's Finals could get byes to the  round of 16, and then everyone else could be drawn at random for home/home, with point differential counting. 

 

[Tony C]

What is the incentive for the top clubs in the FA tournament?
 
Agree with Jeff Van G that I'd be really interested in what's being contemplated. I actually love the idea of it counting toward playoff seeding. Perhaps a guaranteed slot. Or a guaranteed home court advantage. Or some such....
 
And intrigued by the idea of some ping pong balls. Love the idea of the lottery being used to incentivize winning rather than losing.

 

[Infield Infidel]

The team that wins the FA Cup gets a Europa League spot (secondary Euro competition), and a few million pounds. The best teams kind of don't pay attention and send backups for the first couple games. If they make it to the round of 32, then they start sending in starters. Some teams don't care at all and send out a glorified reserve squad for the first match, sort of hoping to lose so they can focus on the regular season. 
 
For the NBA, it would add 4-5 games for some teams, for other teams it would be a nice break. They would probably have to add a week to the season. 

 

[teddykgb]

It also gives teams that are already hopelessly down in the standings something to play for.  Maybe the trophy won't mean the most to the Spurs, but a good run by a mediocre to bad team gives the fans something to pay attention to and exposes some of the players on bad teams to higher pressure games.  In soccer it's tied to another competition, but as was said about you could probably develop other enticements to make participation in this something that would really matter to teams.
 
The biggest barrier, to me, is that this is so awesome in soccer because there are no playoffs and thus the winner is the team with the most points at the end of the year.  This means that lots of teams are pretty well out of it early in the season.  In the NBA where so many teams makes the playoffs, it seems like it would need to be a strong incentive for a team to take this particularly seriously.

 

[luckiestman]

Seems fun but I can't see teams willing to risk their top players

 

[tmracht]

As for the FA Cup, there is some decent prize money available, however, there is a whole history behind the FA Cup, it has existed since 1871 and so has a huge amount of prestige going for it.  Winning team does get $3m dollars to share.   And a coveted spot in the Europa League Continental Tournaments which can bring in some decent television revenue numbers the next year.  This also can be passed on to the loser of the FA Cup final if the team qualifies for European Competition through league play.
 
There are other cups like the Capital One Cup where the winners only get like $200,000 dollars to share and that is taken much less seriously until the very very late stages by the big clubs when they may start fielding more star players in the chase of a "Cup" victory for the fans.

 

[Awesome Fossum]

If the NBA invited two top European clubs to fill out a 32-team bracket, or the reigning D-League and EuroLeague champions, that would be really cool. If there was any justice in the world, the reigning NCAA Champion  would get an invitation.
 
Even without knowing the details, bravo for the NBA considering something new and different. 

 

[ALiveH]

how about worst 16 teams in the standings at midseason play single-elimination tournament that determines draft order?  no incentive to tank.  best teams don't have additional wear-and-tear.  showcase best players that don't get a lot of national TV time b/c they're on bad-to-mediocre teams.  kill multiple birds with one stone.

 

[Silent Chief]

Anything to break up the monotony of 82 games.  They should just pare it down by about 20 games.

 

[Kliq]

I really like the feel of the Summer league games this season, kind of a glorified pickup game with NBA talent in a fieldhouse. I LOVE the idea of the sudden death overtime, and it would be cool to see that in a contest that really matters. I think if you could snag a lottery pick, it would be great.

 

[Devizier]

I like the idea, but it's worth mentioning that the FA Cup and the Open Cup were/are independent entities from their respective professional sports orgs.

 

[Vegas Sox Fan]

If they could structure it so the qualifying portion counted toward regular season record then teams would still care and it wouldn't add games for that portion. Maybe 4 round robin games vs. your division with the top team from each conference getting a bye. That would mean at most just 3 extra games for 2 of those 6 teams. With winner getting a guaranteed playoff spot or lottery balls, I think the players would be into it. 

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I've been a proponent of a similar "round robin tournament" in multiple countries that would be a part of each teams 82-game schedule. The revenue growth for the NBA continues to be outside of the US and this would only add to the marketing by holding real meaningful games in their homeland.

 

[ifmanis5]

I'd much rather reduce the amount of games and have the season start on Christmas day than any silly season tourney.

 

[DJnVa]

how about worst 16 teams in the standings at midseason play single-elimination tournament that determines draft order?  no incentive to tank.  best teams don't have additional wear-and-tear.  showcase best players that don't get a lot of national TV time b/c they're on bad-to-mediocre teams.  kill multiple birds with one stone.

 
What's the correlation from mid-season bottom 16 to end of season bottom 16? Because a team that gets hot early and fades late wouldn't get this chance, but the converse means a team struggling early, gets in this tourney, wins it, then also makes the postseason?

 

[ALiveH]

yes drew, but no system's perfect.  and, i doubt a really great team (like san antonio) would tank the early part of the season (jeopordizing their playoffo seeding) just to get in the tournament for a shot at a top draft pick..  Could also mostly mitigate this by having it around 2/3 of the way through the season instead of half.

 

[DJnVa]

yes drew, but no system's perfect.  and, i doubt a really great team (like san antonio) would tank the early part of the season (jeopordizing their playoffo seeding) just to get in the tournament for a shot at a top draft pick..  Could also mostly mitigate this by having it around 2/3 of the way through the season instead of half.

 
I didn't say someone would tank.
 
But what if a team has an injury early on and the team struggles to stay above .500 in the West while some crappy .400 team in the east is in the playoffs? That decent Western team gets a shot at the top pick and maybe their guy gets healthy, while a crappy 8th seed East team doesn't.
 
50% or 67% through the schedule, I don't think they can base draft slots on that.

 

[TroyOLeary]

There would absolutely be tanking with that system.
 
Anybody within a few games of the 8 seed would have a huge incentive to try to tank down to it.  They would lock in at least the 16th pick, would have a matchup against the worst team in the league to lock in the 8th pick (depending how the tournament worked, I guess), and would be in a good position to get a top 4 pick.
 
They'd then have time to make up the few games they tanked.

 

[DavidTai]

Eliminate the lottery. The teams that were out of the playoffs the previous season plays in this tourney.

Winner gets first pick, second place gets second pick, third places get third pick, then seed according to record for the remainder.

Gives better incentive for teams to actually build for a midrange team. Might result in some trouble among the middle tier of teams but...

 

[Nick Kaufman]

If the NBA invited two top European clubs to fill out a 32-team bracket, or the reigning D-League and EuroLeague champions, that would be really cool. If there was any justice in the world, the reigning NCAA Champion  would get an invitation.
 
Even without knowing the details, bravo for the NBA considering something new and different. 

 
This could be interesting.
 
But the truth is that in the era of Champion's League -which also mixes teams from different leagues- domestic cups aren't considered as prestigious as they used to be. Plus, the difference between a league and a cup was one of format; a league for the champion and a knockout tournament for the cup winner. But the NBA mixes those formats by having a regular season and playoffs! So, where's the novelty in that?

I guess that they could make it a knockout competition akin to march madness, but again, it would be obvious that the eventual cup winner would a product of luck; he would then be compared to the eventual NBA champion and find wanting.

Btw, just remembered that international basketball leagues also run domestic cup competition. This is also less prestigious than the soccer ones I think.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

You know, I just had what I think is a great idea against tanking.
 
In soccer, bottom 3 get relegated right? No one wants that, so usually there's a very enjoyable battle to not finish among the bottom 3.
 
Perhaps, the NBA can adjust to it. Bottom 3 doesn't get a lottery pick. Top lottery pick is assigned to the fourth worst. Bottom 3 get pics right after the playoff teams. It's not perfect and there are still some disincentives, but you won't have teams like this year's sixers for sure.

 

[tonyandpals]

You know, I just had what I think is a great idea against tanking.
 
In soccer, bottom 3 get relegated right? No one wants that, so usually there's a very enjoyable battle to not finish among the bottom 3.
 
Perhaps, the NBA can adjust to it. Bottom 3 doesn't get a lottery pick. Top lottery pick is assigned to the fourth worst. Bottom 3 get pics right after the playoff teams. It's not perfect and there are still some disincentives, but you won't have teams like this year's sixers for sure.

We do something like this in my men's league. 8 teams. Top 4 make playoffs. We used to have a bottom 4 tourney for the#1 pick, but participation was low. Now we make it 5th place gets the #1 pick, 6th gets 2nd and so on.

 

[Time to Mo Vaughn]

Maybe they could include WNBA teams to make it more like the FA Cup. 

 

[ALiveH]

love the WNBA idea for the sheer comedy, plus the added intrigue of them potentially having a major upset against a men's team.  I could see a WNBA team getting insanely hot from 3, keeping it close and the men's team having total fear in their eyes at the thought of the humiliation.  I could also see a lot of those games being like 150-40.

 

[DJnVa]

love the WNBA idea for the sheer comedy, plus the added intrigue of them potentially having a major upset against a men's team.  I could see a WNBA team getting insanely hot from 3, keeping it close and the men's team having total fear in their eyes at the thought of the humiliation.  I could also see a lot of those games being like 150-40.

 
No chance.
 
None.
 
To clarify--when I say "no chance" I'm referring to a WNBA team have a chance of winning.

 

[mcpickl]

Why does anyone think players give a damn about draft position?
 
A player is going to bust his ass in a mid-season tournament, when he has another 40ish regular season games to slog through, to get his team a higher draft pick? To maybe draft a player that will take his minutes?
 
Seems like a disincentive if anything.

 

[tims4wins]

You know, I just had what I think is a great idea against tanking.
 
In soccer, bottom 3 get relegated right? No one wants that, so usually there's a very enjoyable battle to not finish among the bottom 3.
 
Perhaps, the NBA can adjust to it. Bottom 3 doesn't get a lottery pick. Top lottery pick is assigned to the fourth worst. Bottom 3 get pics right after the playoff teams. It's not perfect and there are still some disincentives, but you won't have teams like this year's sixers for sure.

 
Love this idea, although I'd amend it so that the bottom 3 pick before the playoff teams so they're not getting totally boned.

 

[Vegas Sox Fan]

 
Love this idea, although I'd amend it so that the bottom 3 pick before the playoff teams so they're not getting totally boned.

 
I like it too but it does seem a bit aggressive. My thought was starting at 4. Some teams tank and some teams just suck. You don't want the sucky teams to suck forever. 

 

[Devizier]

You could set up relegation to mean that the bottom 3 are ineligible for the playoffs the next season.

 

[rembrat]

Why does anyone think players give a damn about draft position?

 
Agreed. 
 
Pitting NBA teams against each other in the middle of the season and calling it a "tournament" is stupid. Either give out cash prizes or do something insanely cool like pooling teams together by State of birth. You make it open to College players and tie in local charities. You grow the game and the community and you get to see dudes that don't play together play together. 
 
But first cut the season by 12 games. 

 

[ishmael]

 
Agreed. 
 
Pitting NBA teams against each other in the middle of the season and calling it a "tournament" is stupid. Either give out cash prizes or do something insanely cool like pooling teams together by State of birth. You make it open to College players and tie in local charities. You grow the game and the community and you get to see dudes that don't play together play together. 
 
But first cut the season by 12 games. 

Ding ding ding. Can you imagine the epic battles between NY and California? 
 
And then to level things out, you could group international players by continent (Americas, Europe, Africa+Asia+Oceania). Also any state without enough players to field a team could get grouped with its immediate neighbors (i.e. Connecticut + Massachusetts).

 

[ALiveH]

how about 2x2 full-court tournaments like in NBA Jam?  With multi-millions of dollars in prize money to divvy up.

 

[RetractableRoof]

Part of me likes this idea in many of the forms suggested. Would love to see the resultant games... college, pro (Harlem Globetrotters anyone), international, state/regional all star teams.

Then I think of Robert Edwards and wonder how much traction it would get. Teams really didn't want their players in the WBC for similar reasons - least of all the impact on season and/or preparations.

How do you mitigate the risk of injuries? Can you imagine the uproar if Lebron blew an ACL playing 2x2 midseason?

 

[Nick Kaufman]

 
Love this idea, although I'd amend it so that the bottom 3 pick before the playoff teams so they're not getting totally boned.

 
D'oh. That's what I meant. I completely agree.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

You could set up relegation to mean that the bottom 3 are ineligible for the playoffs the next season.

 
Yeah, but that won't be a disincentive for the vast majority of the teams.

 

[Devizier]

 
Yeah, but that won't be a disincentive for the vast majority of the teams.

 
I disagree. Imagine being a player on that team? Imagine an impending free agent signing with a playoff suspended team? It would be crippling and might cause a franchise death spiral, which would be fun to watch.

 

[reggiecleveland]

love the WNBA idea for the sheer comedy, plus the added intrigue of them potentially having a major upset against a men's team.  I could see a WNBA team getting insanely hot from 3, keeping it close and the men's team having total fear in their eyes at the thought of the humiliation.  I could also see a lot of those games being like 150-40.

You have to be trolling. The WNBA teams would have trouble beating any good high school team.