NBA Summer League 2021

TripleOT

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Those few plays shouldn't change your mind whatsoever
He could stick as a 15th man, and develop as a three and D type, if he can make shots. Charlotte might keep him around just to make his younger brother happy
 

Kliq

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Weirdly he has the best looking jumper of the three brothers.
I'm pretty sure his role on the Chino Hills teams was to stand in the corner and get the hell out of the way of Lonzo and LaMelo so it's not shocking that his shot wasn't completely broken.
 

Kliq

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Probably about as much an NBA player as Thanasis.
Hey, Thanasis did his job. Giannis signed the contract extension! Thanasis did actually play 9 mpg last year and somehow stole some minutes in the playoffs. He's probably not any worse than a lot of 11th-13th men on other NBA teams.

I was surprised to see LiAngelo just because everyone seemed to say that he was not anywhere close to being an NBA player; that he wasn't even a D-1 prospect but UCLA wanted the other two brothers, etc. Him getting a SL run (and not looking like a rec player who wandered into the game) was surprising.

I remember when the Knicks resigned JR Smith, part of the deal was they gave his brother, Chris, a SL contract, and later one executive mentioned that he was "the worst player in the history of NBA Summer League."
 

BigMike

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Hey, Thanasis did his job. Giannis signed the contract extension! Thanasis did actually play 9 mpg last year and somehow stole some minutes in the playoffs. He's probably not any worse than a lot of 11th-13th men on other NBA teams.

I was surprised to see LiAngelo just because everyone seemed to say that he was not anywhere close to being an NBA player; that he wasn't even a D-1 prospect but UCLA wanted the other two brothers, etc. Him getting a SL run (and not looking like a rec player who wandered into the game) was surprising.

I remember when the Knicks resigned JR Smith, part of the deal was they gave his brother, Chris, a SL contract, and later one executive mentioned that he was "the worst player in the history of NBA Summer League."
LiAngelo certainly could have been a div 1 player. Maybe the UCLA offer at the time was a gift, and maybe he couldn't have gotten a scholie from a Blue blood, but he is a better player than 85% of the players Boston College has brought in the last decade. I doubt he makes Charlotte, but he is far from the worst player on a summer league roster
 

HomeRunBaker

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Hey, Thanasis did his job. Giannis signed the contract extension! Thanasis did actually play 9 mpg last year and somehow stole some minutes in the playoffs. He's probably not any worse than a lot of 11th-13th men on other NBA teams.

I was surprised to see LiAngelo just because everyone seemed to say that he was not anywhere close to being an NBA player; that he wasn't even a D-1 prospect but UCLA wanted the other two brothers, etc. Him getting a SL run (and not looking like a rec player who wandered into the game) was surprising.

I remember when the Knicks resigned JR Smith, part of the deal was they gave his brother, Chris, a SL contract, and later one executive mentioned that he was "the worst player in the history of NBA Summer League."
LiAngelo was not good 3-4 years ago. One thing to his credit that all the brothers seem to have is a tremendous work ethic and drive to improve. In an age where “3 and D” is now a position maybe the kid has a chance.
 

Jimbodandy

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LiAngelo certainly could have been a div 1 player. Maybe the UCLA offer at the time was a gift, and maybe he couldn't have gotten a scholie from a Blue blood, but he is a better player than 85% of the players Boston College has brought in the last decade. I doubt he makes Charlotte, but he is far from the worst player on a summer league roster
That's hardly an endorsement. BC hasn't had a competitive program since the admissions eggheads scorched-earthed the athletic department.

Would he have gotten an offer from a school with a non-zero chance at getting to the tournament?
 

TripleOT

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There is a possibility that Melo Ball (and Zion) might pass up their rookie max extension, since they both are flush with endorsement money, and can easily make up what they lose in NBA salary in future endorsement money in a bigger market.

If Thanasis-ing Gelo Ball as their 15th man keeps his talented younger brother in Charlotte for the rest of the decade, they should do it. Just cut down to one Martin, if necessary.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Davion Mitchell making it look like Patrick Beverley simply goes through the motions. He just obliterated Bouknight on both ends of the floor.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Tried watching 1Q of Warriors/Magic. I said tried. Couldn’t do it. Kuminga is awful. Suggs isn’t out of the woods from being Fultz, nobody could make a shot, few could penetrate without falling over. If you had told me this was a 8am game after both teams were on The Strip all night I would nod in agreement and blame the scheduling.
 

BigSoxFan

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That's hardly an endorsement. BC hasn't had a competitive program since the admissions eggheads scorched-earthed the athletic department.

Would he have gotten an offer from a school with a non-zero chance at getting to the tournament?
BC was a very good program in the 2000s making the NCAAs 7 or 8 years in the decade and turning out multiple NBA draft picks. Since then…sigh.
 

nighthob

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Tried watching 1Q of Warriors/Magic. I said tried. Couldn’t do it. Kuminga is awful. Suggs isn’t out of the woods from being Fultz, nobody could make a shot, few could penetrate without falling over. If you had told me this was a 8am game after both teams were on The Strip all night I would nod in agreement and blame the scheduling.
You would think that a team that actually had Fultz on the roster would avoid drafting a PG with shooting issues for fear that the shiny new PG will Fultz up his jumper.
 

Jimbodandy

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Where have you gone, Al Skinner?
I honestly don't know how Skinner kept it together as long as he did. The eggheads won the power struggle at the end of the 90s. Every once in a while, a charismatic FB or BB coach will come along and throw together a few ok recruiting classes and a decent season or two, but it will never be sustainable again.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I honestly don't know how Skinner kept it together as long as he did. The eggheads won the power struggle at the end of the 90s. Every once in a while, a charismatic FB or BB coach will come along and throw together a few ok recruiting classes and a decent season or two, but it will never be sustainable again.
BC only had Donahue and Christian after Skinner and neither could recruit for shit which is what 90% of college “coaching” is all about.
 

BigSoxFan

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I honestly don't know how Skinner kept it together as long as he did. The eggheads won the power struggle at the end of the 90s. Every once in a while, a charismatic FB or BB coach will come along and throw together a few ok recruiting classes and a decent season or two, but it will never be sustainable again.
Football is in much better shape. Hafley is doing some really good things. He’ll eventually move on but there is a path to sustained relevance in football. Basketball is a complete lost cause.
 

radsoxfan

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None! I’m not sure I could have been stronger in my pre-draft posts. He also has zero left hand.
I’m way less of a college bball guy than you and others here but I never understood the Wagner thing… at all.

I figured I had some Mo Wagner bias going on and just was missing the boat. But is it possible he is a smaller worse version of Mo?
 

HomeRunBaker

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I’m way less of a college bball guy than you and others here but I never understood the Wagner thing… at all.

I figured I had some Mo Wagner bias going on and just was missing the boat. But is it possible he is a smaller worse version of Mo?
Mo was a very good college player too. Franz was more developed at an early age but I don’t see the ceiling that apparently others do and he certainly isn’t ready to play at the NBA level right now. Breeding and full brother/sister matters so much in thoroughbred racing yet I don’t know why it seems to be barely considered when it comes to evaluating NBA players.....at least not yet.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Mo was a very good college player too. Franz was more developed at an early age but I don’t see the ceiling that apparently others do and he certainly isn’t ready to play at the NBA level right now. Breeding and full brother/sister matters so much in thoroughbred racing yet I don’t know why it seems to be barely considered when it comes to evaluating NBA players.....at least not yet.
Twins seem to be all over the place at the NBA and college level. Brook vs Robin. Some are more lined up like Jarron and Jason Collins, or the Morris brothers.
 

radsoxfan

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Mo was a very good college player too. Franz was more developed at an early age but I don’t see the ceiling that apparently others do and he certainly isn’t ready to play at the NBA level right now. Breeding and full brother/sister matters so much in thoroughbred racing yet I don’t know why it seems to be barely considered when it comes to evaluating NBA players.....at least not yet.
Yeah, that was honestly my back of the envelope analysis. Mo was pretty good in college too, taller and a better shot from 3 than Franz. Pretty agile for a 6'11" guy too. Ended up as the 25th overall pick, sort of bounced around so far in the NBA, has shown some flashes. Still might make a career for himself, who knows.

His smaller worse shooting brother came along and everyone said he was a top 10 pick. I saw Franz play at most 4 college games, but he didn't look particularly good in that small sample. I figured I was missing something obvious given the hype but perhaps not.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Twins seem to be all over the place at the NBA and college level. Brook vs Robin. Some are more lined up like Jarron and Jason Collins, or the Morris brothers.
Plenty of brothers and each year more and more sons of ex-players climb onto the radar.........current brothers are Ball, Curry, Antetokoummpo, the 3 Holidays, Martin, McDaniels, Hernangomez, Morris, and Lopez. Even taking the twins out of it you see similarities in the brothers games and with the obv exceptions of Giannis and Curry, similar skill levels.......similar to throughbreds.
 

JM3

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I mean, there are also a ton of NBA players who have brothers who are not NBA-level basketball players at all & only a few that are.

& that's kind of a lazy comparison to Mo. Mo did shoot better 3s, but Franz was the better free throw shooter, 84% to 70% showing a more projectable NBA shooting game.

In his age 19 season, Franz also blocked twice as many shots & had 4 times as many assists as Mo did in his age 21 season.

The main reason to think Franz is overrated is that he models as a ridiculously high-end defensive player in college, but is simply not athletic enough for that to translate into being a high-end NBA defensive player.

The analytics can be informative to some extent that he should be able to defend better than his athletic profile would suggest, but yeah... it's almost certainly too much.

I'm pretty neutral on Franz overall, but he's also the type of player you wouldn't expect to excel in Summer League even if you're high on him.
 

JM3

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Plenty of brothers and each year more and more sons of ex-players climb onto the radar.........current brothers are Ball, Curry, Antetokoummpo, the 3 Holidays, Martin, McDaniels, Hernangomez, Morris, and Lopez. Even taking the twins out of it you see similarities in the brothers games and with the obv exceptions of Giannis and Curry, similar skill levels.......similar to throughbreds.
Only ones missing from that list are Tyus & Tre Jones. That's an extremely small sample of NBA brothers, though. Like Blake Griffin's older brother Taylor isn't part of this sample because he played 8 NBA games & 136 G-League games before taking his talents to Italy.

Similarly, Jeff Teague's younger brother Marquis washed out after 91 NBA games.

& those are just 2 random examples. 100s of other players have brothers who played in college or not at all. I can't see how Franz having a brother who is a fringe NBA player would be a worse look for him than if he had a brother who was a used car salesman or how that would say anything about the projectability of his career.
 

JM3

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& just for fun because I can't sleep... how similar really are those sets of NBA brothers?

* Lonzo & LaMelo play pretty dissimilar games with Lonzo being more sound fundamentally & LaMelo being much flashier. & then there's Liangelo...

Melo projects to have the better NBA career & the higher upside.

Random side note...Lonzo's free throw shooting turnaround last year is remarkable.

FT% by year: 45, 42, 57, 78

Shooting % not so remarkable, even though he's been good on 3s the last 2 years...

FG% by year: 36, 41, 40, 41
3p% by year: 31, 33, 38, 38

* Holidays are clearly not remotely the same. Jrue is an elite player, combo guard. Justin is a journeyman wing & Aaron thus far has been an ok'ish PG.

* Cody & Caleb Martin are indeed similarly limited role players, buuuuuut they're twins.

* Jaden & Jalen McDaniels have had similar careers to this point, but Jalen is 2 years older & Jaden projects to have a higher upside.

* Willy & Juan Hernangomez are nominally similar insomuch as they're both tall backups of a similar age, but Willy is more of a banging center who shoots for a higher % & rebounds while Juan is a stretch 4...kinda...

* The Morris twins are fairly similar. They were drafted back-to-back in the 2011 draft, 13th & 14th. Kieff was the more talented player & got off to a better start to his career but then I guess the whole competitive drive thing caught up to him & Marcus has been the more relevant player for years.

* The Lopez twins have always been totally different dudes even before Robin decided to shoot 3s. Although their per 36 stats are actually more similar than you would think, with Brook obviously being a higher volume scorer.

* Tyus & Tre Jones could very well be similar players.

But yeah, bottom line, I don't think there's anything in the sampling of current NBA brothers, or historic NBA brothers that would lead me to believe that one can project Franz's career with any confidence based on Mo's career.
 

benhogan

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I can already see the Bane/Kanter pitchforks coming out after Desmond's Summer League game last night and the Return on Enes
 

BigSoxFan

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& just for fun because I can't sleep... how similar really are those sets of NBA brothers?

* Lonzo & LaMelo play pretty dissimilar games with Lonzo being more sound fundamentally & LaMelo being much flashier. & then there's Liangelo...

Melo projects to have the better NBA career & the higher upside.

Random side note...Lonzo's free throw shooting turnaround last year is remarkable.

FT% by year: 45, 42, 57, 78

Shooting % not so remarkable, even though he's been good on 3s the last 2 years...

FG% by year: 36, 41, 40, 41
3p% by year: 31, 33, 38, 38

* Holidays are clearly not remotely the same. Jrue is an elite player, combo guard. Justin is a journeyman wing & Aaron thus far has been an ok'ish PG.

* Cody & Caleb Martin are indeed similarly limited role players, buuuuuut they're twins.

* Jaden & Jalen McDaniels have had similar careers to this point, but Jalen is 2 years older & Jaden projects to have a higher upside.

* Willy & Juan Hernangomez are nominally similar insomuch as they're both tall backups of a similar age, but Willy is more of a banging center who shoots for a higher % & rebounds while Juan is a stretch 4...kinda...

* The Morris twins are fairly similar. They were drafted back-to-back in the 2011 draft, 13th & 14th. Kieff was the more talented player & got off to a better start to his career but then I guess the whole competitive drive thing caught up to him & Marcus has been the more relevant player for years.

* The Lopez twins have always been totally different dudes even before Robin decided to shoot 3s. Although their per 36 stats are actually more similar than you would think, with Brook obviously being a higher volume scorer.

* Tyus & Tre Jones could very well be similar players.

But yeah, bottom line, I don't think there's anything in the sampling of current NBA brothers, or historic NBA brothers that would lead me to believe that one can project Franz's career with any confidence based on Mo's career.
The Collins twins from Stanford always seemed to be pretty similar to me, with Jason being a little better.
 

TripleOT

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I can already see the Bane/Kanter pitchforks coming out after Desmond's Summer League game last night and the Return on Enes
I watched the Brooklyn-Memphis SL game because I wanted to see David Duke. Seeing Bane playing point forward, splashing threes like a Curry, was just a bonus. Every swished three elicited a “WTF, Danny” moment In my thoughts
 

JM3

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The Collins twins from Stanford always seemed to be pretty similar to me, with Jason being a little better.
Yeah...impressively long deep bench careers. If Jarron played now he'd have to be able to shoot 3s & if Jason were to play now he'd have to be faster. They seem kinda like poor men's Hernangomezes in that regard.

Here's a list of historical NBA brothers If you want to go that route...

https://www.allaboutbasketball.us/nba/list-of-brothers-who-have-played-in-nba.html
 

JM3

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Does the brother caveat apply to players with similar names?

Like is Nikola Jovic going to get a Jokic bump?

Is Marcus Bagley going to be as mediocre as Melvin?

Is Kendall Brown going to be the next Kedrick Brown?

Sorry, just started looking into the 2022 draft.
 

JM3

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Turns out Marcus is actually Marvin's brother. Not why I called him Melvin either. Oh well.
 

TripleOT

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scottyno

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Anyone been to summer league yet this year? I'm going today, mostly only because with the in-person only top shot moments you can essentially get paid to go if you do topshot, unfortunately I didn't figure that out until today, which is the last day they're doing it this year.
 

JM3

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Beat brothers? Probably the Gasols.
There are at least 3 different ways to answer this question:

1) Best overall pair (could sort by career VORP or whatever).

2) Best 2nd best brother.

3) Who would win a hypothetical 2+2 tournament with all players in their prime.

3 would be the most fun way. Based on some quick eyeballing, the Gasols almost certainly win by the 1st 2 metrics.
 

scottyno

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There are at least 3 different ways to answer this question:

1) Best overall pair (could sort by career VORP or whatever).

2) Best 2nd best brother.

3) Who would win a hypothetical 2+2 tournament with all players in their prime.

3 would be the most fun way. Based on some quick eyeballing, the Gasols almost certainly win by the 1st 2 metrics.
The Currys would have a decent shot if you're playing with 1s and 2s
 

JM3

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Anyone been to summer league yet this year? I'm going today, mostly only because with the in-person only top shot moments you can essentially get paid to go if you do topshot, unfortunately I didn't figure that out until today, which is the last day they're doing it this year.
Haven't been. Have idly considered it, but work/pandemic/etc.
 

Kliq

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I'm trying to think of any real all-time greats that had shitty brothers that were also in the league. Like, in baseball if you wanted to add up combined WAR, the best baseball brothers of all time are Henry and Tommie Aaron.