NBA Trade Deadline - Buyout Season Thread

Imbricus

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Man, these conditional picks are getting funkier and funkier. Has anyone ever done a reverse protection pick? Like plenty of teams "protect" the pick from conveying if it's say 1-10 or some such. But has anyone structured a pick so that it only conveys if it's say within the top 15 the first year, within the top 20 the second year etc.? That might be interesting.

Edit: to clarify a bit.
 

NomarsFool

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I don't know the other players involved, but did Milwaukee give up anything? Swapping a 2023 for a 2022 is potentially more valuable because of the 'double draft' right? I can't imagine the pick swap has any real value.

Edit: Didn't realize it was a 2nd round for 1st round swap. That definitely has value. Although, since the swap is this year, they aren't moving back all that much. Given the money involved in late FRP vs. early 2nd round - not super valuable. It certainly seems like they got Tucker for almost nothing (again I know nothing of the other players involved).
 
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Swedgin

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I don't know the other players involved, but did Milwaukee give up anything? Swapping a 2023 for a 2022 is potentially more valuable because of the 'double draft' right? I can't imagine the pick swap has any real value.
The value of the swap for the Bucks is that it frees up another pick they can trade under the Stepien rule.
 

Swedgin

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Man, these conditional picks are getting funkier and funkier. Has anyone ever done a reverse protection pick? Like plenty of teams "protect" the pick from conveying if it's say 1-10 or some such. But has anyone structured a pick so that it only conveys if it's say within the top 15 the first year, within the top 20 the second year etc.? That might be interesting.

Edit: to clarify a bit.
Yes. You also have trades like AD to the Lakers, where the Pelicans can decide to defer the pick until a later year.

If you're interested in pick protections, the Ringer just put up an article today.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/17/22335035/nba-trade-deadline-first-pick-protection
 
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Jimbodandy

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around the way
that's so 2020, they have NFT'd the entire collection of picks. $69MM for Beeple is chump change.

It entitles the holder to start their own NBA franchise in Bangkok and conduct this summer's draft from a yacht in St Tropez with Adam Silver as the First Mate... #BITCOINBallers
I get like 5% of this and still laughed. Sucks getting old.
 

BigSoxFan

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Rob Williams is legit....I don't want to hear any more nonsense that he's only good because Brad picks his spots or he plays against scrubs...The guy needs to start
But he sometimes misses defensive rotations!
 

NomarsFool

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They just don't have enough good players. If they don't find some way of replacing Hayward with someone who is in the ballpark of as good he is, they just aren't going anywhere. That player doesn't have to be an All-Star, or fringe All-Star - they just need to be someone reasonably good. It's a shame that while we have seen Jaylen Brown ascend to All-Star status, we've also seen Kemba descend a level or two. I'm optimistic that next season Nesmith and Romeo can be role players off the bench, TL and TT and anchor the 5 (with Theis leaving). But, they still have that missing hole that needs to be filled (by mortgaging a bunch of draft picks).
 

peritas

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I completely agree. They really need to think long term here. No need to try and fix this year. Maybe better to end up with a slightly better draft pick. Brad doesn’t have the talent so I wouldn’t fire him. The young guys should be ready to contribute next year but the key ifs finding a long term quality player to fill out the roster.
 

128

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I completely agree. They really need to think long term here. No need to try and fix this year. Maybe better to end up with a slightly better draft pick. Brad doesn’t have the talent so I wouldn’t fire him. The young guys should be ready to contribute next year but the key ifs finding a long term quality player to fill out the roster.
Can't wait to add another No. 14 pick next season and watch him waste away on the bench.

(I kid. Kind of.)
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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Two firsts for Barnes feels steep, but shedding Grant makes this palatable to me. Of course Hollinger is just making this up, but yeah, this helps past this year.

I think if there's a decent TPE deal they should jump on it. I know not paying the tax this year is important, but how bad it is going to be if nothing is there for the TPE this summer. There's a world where that TPE just evaporates or is used for a couple marginal guys and Danny basically gave Charlotte two picks for nothing.
 

PedroKsBambino

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What I like about that deal is that it get Celtics useful pieces in Barnes and Bjelica (plus Whiteside) for the two firsts and flotsam we're better off wtihout (Carsen, Semi, Grant, Javonte, and also TT who is useful but also good to move on from at this point). Belief those guys could help hurt Celtics a lot this year, and it's time to move on.

I wouldn't do that deal overall, as I don't think this year's team is going to get over the hump, but it's interesting.
 

benhogan

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Two firsts for Barnes feels steep, but shedding Grant makes this palatable to me. Of course Hollinger is just making this up, but yeah, this helps past this year.

I think if there's a decent TPE deal they should jump on it. I know not paying the tax this year is important, but how bad it is going to be if nothing is there for the TPE this summer. There's a world where that TPE just evaporates or is used for a couple marginal guys and Danny basically gave Charlotte two picks for nothing.
Danny probably feels there will be exponentially greater opportunities to use "more or most" of the TPE this Summer (+ the repeater issue). The current team has several large issues that also need to be addressed this summer.

Adding 1 or 2 pieces isn't going to fix this team's rotten defense.
 

HomeRunBaker

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He could send out Nesmith + TL + three first round picks and that would most assuredly be an asset rich offer
I was talking realistic. What would TL and 3 mid to low 1st fetch? Certainly not enough to overhaul the roster while removing a potential key piece and stripping ourself of 3 future picks.
 

DourDoerr

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Lonzo intrigues me, but I don't really know too much about him beyond what I had read in his early days in the league TBH. I see his FT% has climbed up to 76% from 56% last year and his 3PT% has steadily climbed each of his 4 years to 38% right now. He's a 6'6" PG with the rep of a creative passer and is still only 23. That all sounds good. Two questions to anyone who's been looking at him - how is his defense? And why do his APG's seem low for someone with his rep (5.6 APG, good for 27th in league, right behind Kyrie), is it scheme? Interestingly - and unrelated - Jaylen is 55th in the league at 3.9 APG - trailing Hayward at #54 with 4.1.

The reason why I bring Bell up is that I think a creative, pass-first guard who can defend is sorely needed on this team. And, yes, Marcus covers some of this ground, but I just don't think he's a consistent answer as he's really a chaos agent at his best. The team needs some easy scores and someone who can reward hard-working cutters, etc. He's been mentioned before, but I never got a handle on exactly what his warts are at this point and why he shouldn't be on the C's radar (and, of course, it might just be needing two to tango and/or contract).
 

Average Game James

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Lonzo intrigues me, but I don't really know too much about him beyond what I had read in his early days in the league TBH. I see his FT% has climbed up to 76% from 56% last year and his 3PT% has steadily climbed each of his 4 years to 38% right now. He's a 6'6" PG with the rep of a creative passer and is still only 23. That all sounds good. Two questions to anyone who's been looking at him - how is his defense? And why do his APG's seem low for someone with his rep (5.6 APG, good for 27th in league, right behind Kyrie), is it scheme? Interestingly - and unrelated - Jaylen is 55th in the league at 3.9 APG - trailing Hayward at #54 with 4.1.

The reason why I bring Bell up is that I think a creative, pass-first guard who can defend is sorely needed on this team. And, yes, Marcus covers some of this ground, but I just don't think he's a consistent answer as he's really a chaos agent at his best. The team needs some easy scores and someone who can reward hard-working cutters, etc. He's been mentioned before, but I never got a handle on exactly what his warts are at this point and why he shouldn't be on the C's radar (and, of course, it might just be needing two to tango and/or contract).
The relatively low APG is, I think, a function of playing with two high usage guys in Zion and Ingram. He was at 7.0 APG last year with Zion out a good chunk of the year and 7.2 APG his rookie season in LA (dropped to 5.4 in LeBron's first year there).

Per RPM, his defense is ~average though it seems like his reputation is maybe a bit better than that? No idea what it would cost to get him, but as a defensive unit Ball/Smart/Brown/Tatum/Timelord is pretty appealing.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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The relatively low APG is, I think, a function of playing with two high usage guys in Zion and Ingram. He was at 7.0 APG last year with Zion out a good chunk of the year and 7.2 APG his rookie season in LA (dropped to 5.4 in LeBron's first year there).

Per RPM, his defense is ~average though it seems like his reputation is maybe a bit better than that? No idea what it would cost to get him, but as a defensive unit Ball/Smart/Brown/Tatum/Timelord is pretty appealing.
He is a FAST ball mover. My read on him coming out was that he would rack up a ton of hockey-style 2nd assists because he is constantly moving the ball before you expect it, in a way that can put defenses off balance but isn’t necessarily creating the easier drive and kick assists that point guards live on.

Also lots of fast break non-assists (depending on scorekeeper discretion) because off rebounds he gets the ball up the floor from the backcourt before anyone (receiver included) expects it, creating a lane to the bucket that may require a couple dribbles (hence the need for scorekeeper discretion on the assist).

Haven’t really watched enough of him to confirm to what degree the above has played out, though.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Lonzo intrigues me, but I don't really know too much about him beyond what I had read in his early days in the league TBH. I see his FT% has climbed up to 76% from 56% last year and his 3PT% has steadily climbed each of his 4 years to 38% right now. He's a 6'6" PG with the rep of a creative passer and is still only 23. That all sounds good. Two questions to anyone who's been looking at him - how is his defense? And why do his APG's seem low for someone with his rep (5.6 APG, good for 27th in league, right behind Kyrie), is it scheme? Interestingly - and unrelated - Jaylen is 55th in the league at 3.9 APG - trailing Hayward at #54 with 4.1.

The reason why I bring Bell up is that I think a creative, pass-first guard who can defend is sorely needed on this team. And, yes, Marcus covers some of this ground, but I just don't think he's a consistent answer as he's really a chaos agent at his best. The team needs some easy scores and someone who can reward hard-working cutters, etc. He's been mentioned before, but I never got a handle on exactly what his warts are at this point and why he shouldn't be on the C's radar (and, of course, it might just be needing two to tango and/or contract).
Don’t be deceived by his 38% 3-pt shooting number and forget his rookie year scouting report......he’s an even better shooter than this. I posted back then that his form was very good in that his release, rotation and arc that resulted in a soft touch wasn’t a problem. It was his mechanics that led to terrible consistency in the results of each shot. Since that times he’s completely overhauled the mechanics and he’s now a very good 3-pt shooter. Why I say the 38% is deceptive is that he’s never been a shooter and is still figuring out shot selection which is dragging his numbers down. Once he figures this part out there is no reason he won’t be shooting in the low-40’s.

I’ve always loved his defense off the ball and against wings so he’s excellent in a team concept with switching as his instincts are elite and he has great size for a guard. He still struggles against quick 1’s not much differently than Smart so I don’t even consider him a guy who will play the 1 as much as a combo type.

I think there is a very good reason for his low assist numbers and it’s his lack of ability to get to his spot with the ball and/or to beat his man with the dribble to create assist opportunities. He’s also not a real good finisher for a player his size so his overall offensive game has many limitations. He’s unique in being a 3-and-D guard who is a great passer in space and he’s still very young so I expect his strength to improve over the next 3-4 years as well.
 
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NomarsFool

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I think he is regarded more as a passing point guard in the transition game and less in the half court game. So, he doesn’t exactly match what the Celtics need, but you’d think someone with his vision and passing instincts would eventually be a good PG in half court as well.
 

DourDoerr

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Thanks to all for the detailed info on Lonzo - I think it's given me a better idea of his progress/fit. It seems like the tools outweigh the warts and he'd make a nice rotation piece with some upside still. The ability to provide switchability on D as well as a steady 3pt shot are pretty valuable skills, but the lack of quickness ultimately seals his fate as a sixth man combo. If Marcus was moved, I'd guess Ball could slide in nicely, but there's too much overlap now for it to make sense given other roster needs.
 

sezwho

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Don’t be deceived by his 38% 3-pt shooting number and forget his rookie year scouting report......he’s an even better shooter than this. I posted back then that his form was very good in that his release, rotation and arc that resulted in a soft touch wasn’t a problem. It was his mechanics that led to terrible consistency in the results of each shot. Since that times he’s completely overhauled the mechanics and he’s now a very good 3-pt shooter. Why I say the 38% is deceptive is that he’s never been a shooter and is still figuring out shot selection which is dragging his numbers down. Once he figures this part out there is no reason he won’t be shooting in the low-40’s.

I’ve always loved his defense off the ball and against wings so he’s excellent in a team concept with switching as his instincts are elite and he has great size for a guard. He still struggles against quick 1’s not much differently than Smart so I don’t even consider him a guy who will play the 1 as much as a combo type.

I think there is a very good reason for his low assist numbers and it’s his lack of ability to get to his spot with the ball and/or to beat his man with the dribble to create assist opportunities. He’s also not a real good finisher for a player his size so his overall offensive game has many limitations. He’s unique in being a 3-and-D guard who is a great passer in space and he’s still very young so I expect his strength to improve over the next 3-4 years as well.
I'm on this train as well, though confess to watching little of Ball this season and I'm not clear what would be needed to get him.

Lonzo replacing Kemba in the starting lineup sounds better than trying to add another wing or center, especially when we have no idea the real value of the Nesmith and Wherefore Art Thou.

Ball/Smart/J1/J2/TL with Kemba as 6man plus Theis and whichever young players separate from the pack coming off the bench...less of course whatever it took to get Ball.

Someone at point to play great D and put the Js in a position to get easy hoops seems like a fine path forward.
 

128

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Aaron Gordon is playing tonite for the Magic, so no trade is imminent, I guess.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Aaron Gordon is playing tonite for the Magic, so no trade is imminent, I guess.
Difficult spot for both the Magic and Gordon. The team wants Gordon to believe that he’s in the rumors bc everyone wants him so they can’t sit him but at the same time they are petrified of him blowing out his knee. At the same time the ownership probably wouldn’t mind Fournier blowing out his as his contract is insured as one of the teams five largest contracts.
 

BigSoxFan

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Difficult spot for both the Magic and Gordon. The team wants Gordon to believe that he’s in the rumors bc everyone wants him so they can’t sit him but at the same time they are petrified of him blowing out his knee.
This reminds me that Drummond hasn’t played in like a month. Is he still even in shape?
 

Tony C

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The puzzle on Lonzo is why the Pels seem to want to trade him so badly. He's a terrific complementary player and agree fully with what was said above -- his shot is steadlily improving and he's a terrific team defensive player and moves the ball incredibly quickly -- does a lot of things well that don't show up in the box score. That said, I haven't seen him much this year and, while I assume the Pels have just figured they can't afford his price tag next year, sure seemed to be down on him earlier this season.
 

128

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Difficult spot for both the Magic and Gordon. The team wants Gordon to believe that he’s in the rumors bc everyone wants him so they can’t sit him but at the same time they are petrified of him blowing out his knee. At the same time the ownership probably wouldn’t mind Fournier blowing out his as his contract is insured as one of the teams five largest contracts.
Orlando plays again tonite. With the trade deadline looming, the Magic's use of Gordon and Fournier really bears watching.
 

cardiacs

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Not sure which thread to put this in....



Mark Murphy
@Murf56


Per source: Celtics talks with Orlando re: Aaron Gordon "still alive, but everyone does everything at last minute." Celtics offering first round pick and a young player - not Marcus Smart - and are trying not to include second pick in the deal.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Does anyone top a 1st and AN?

Have any other teams been lined to AG? I know Boston is on his short list.

edit: The Rockets, apparently.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Not sure which thread to put this in....



Mark Murphy
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Per source: Celtics talks with Orlando re: Aaron Gordon "still alive, but everyone does everything at last minute." Celtics offering first round pick and a young player - not Marcus Smart - and are trying not to include second pick in the deal.
Gordon for one of Nesmith or Langford (or, I guess, Timelord) doesn't work from a cap perspective, right? Without Smart getting moved, that means Thompson is almost certainly involved to balance the salaries, and even then it looks like another small contract (Edwards/Green/Teague) is needed to match.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Gordon for one of Nesmith or Langford (or, I guess, Timelord) doesn't work from a cap perspective, right? Without Smart getting moved, that means Thompson is almost certainly involved to balance the salaries, and even then it looks like another small contract (Edwards/Green/Teague) is needed to match.
TPE.

Magic wouldn't want TL.
 

Auger34

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Gordon for one of Nesmith or Langford (or, I guess, Timelord) doesn't work from a cap perspective, right? Without Smart getting moved, that means Thompson is almost certainly involved to balance the salaries, and even then it looks like another small contract (Edwards/Green/Teague) is needed to match.
I’m guessing this ends up being 1 Lottery Protected 1st (this year), a top 20 protected 1st plus TT and our young flotsam and jetsam for Gordon. Another variation would be Nesmith or Romeo instead of the second 1st
 

Cellar-Door

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I’m guessing this ends up being 1 Lottery Protected 1st (this year), a top 20 protected 1st plus TT and our young flotsam and jetsam for Gordon. Another variation would be Nesmith or Romeo instead of the second 1st
TT is probably only going to ORL in a deal that also brings Fournier. You aren't salary matching otherwise, and ORL doesn't want him.

There are probably 2 ways this deal works:
Option 1:
Gordon
for
Picks + Young guy

Option 2:
Gordon
Fournier (likely with an extension)
for
Picks
Young guys and/or Smart
Salary filler if no Smart (TT+)

ORL likely would want to move TT in the latter to a 3rd team for an expiring and a lotto ticket or 2nd.

Portland has been in on Gordon
Denver too
 

cardiacs

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TT is probably only going to ORL in a deal that also brings Fournier. You aren't salary matching otherwise, and ORL doesn't want him.

There are probably 2 ways this deal works:
Option 1:
Gordon
for
Picks + Young guy

Option 2:
Gordon
Fournier (likely with an extension)
for
Picks
Young guys and/or Smart
Salary filler if no Smart (TT+)

ORL likely would want to move TT in the latter to a 3rd team for an expiring and a lotto ticket or 2nd.


Denver too
I am OK with both of these as long as Smart stays.