NBA Trade Deadline Discussion

Jed Zeppelin

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The deadline is about two weeks away on February 20 @ 3 pm, so I figured I'd start a catch-all thread as the rumor mill begins heating up. Any noteworthy deals that actually occur can be split out into their own threads.
 
Let's start with a rumor that appears to have some substance behind it: Lakers and Suns discussing Gasol. Suns are looking to make some noise and have extra 1st rounders coming in from Washington and Indiana (they also have Minnesota's but it's lottery protected this year and 1-12 protected for the next two--playoffs are tough to crack in the WC). They're in great shape cap-wise and have Okafor's $14 mil expiring to work with. In addition to Gasol they could use a good wing player so I'm sure they'll be in on whatever Green/Turner/etc. conversations may occur.
 
Some other current playoff teams that could use a sf are Atlanta, Dallas, Washington, and Charlotte. The latter two are interesting to note because while there are quite a few teams content with racking up losses this season, the door has been opened for teams like the Wizards, Bobcats, and Raptors to try to capitalize and make the playoffs, make some extra money and drum up some interest when they're usually on the outside looking in. There have been plenty of whispers about Cleveland being in desperation mode, and the Knicks have no incentive to miss the playoffs, not to mention always being good for a colossal screw-up.
 
All it takes is just one of these situations to bear fruit for Ainge. There are a couple things to note about a potential Green/Turner bidding war. Turner is a bit more desirable but he's going to become just as expensive as Green this offseason (and for a longer period of time). He can't shoot from long range so he's less of a fit for teams that might just be looking for an above average role player. Turner is two years younger but hasn't really improved since he came into the league; he is better this year at getting to the line and converting but everything is basically the same old player and fresh out of upside worth dreaming (and spending) on. What it could come down to is that the Sixers are going to be asking primarily for assets in a Turner trade because they don't need any cap savings now or in the future. The Celtics, otoh, would certainly love to get both in a Green deal but would probably settle for a deal centered around getting future money off the books with perhaps a smallish asset back, like a late 1st or something depending on the particulars.
 
We all hate Bass but he's actually one of the easier pieces to move because he's not too expensive, he's only signed through next season and Ainge would probably trade him for a couple of expiring deals while Olynyk takes his minutes to get some experience and help the C's lose. I think it's at least 50/50 that he's on another team in two weeks. I could see them wanting Humphries around for the sake of the young bigs. Rondo is more of a draft day move.
 
All that Celtics talk aside, Melo will be the biggest question mark and discussion point surrounding deadline season. For what it's worth, Chad Ford is predicting an "epic" trade deadline, so it will all probably fizzle out.
 

Brickowski

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Lots of sellers, but very few buyers, due in large measure to the new CBA. I don't think it will be an "epic" deadline at all.

Why is Phoenix interested in Gasol? He's out until at least the all-star break and he's a poor fit for their up tempo style. The player the Suns ought to be targeting with Oakfor's contract is Humphries.

I don't see Rondo going anywhere unless Dumars is desperate and willing to unload Monroe.

Who knows about Green and Bass?

As for Cleveland, they have to move Dion Waiters, but where? The NBA has a number of talented knuckleheads, and he's at the top of the list, knucklehead-wise. No. 2 is Larry Sanders.
 

MakMan44

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Not much of a fit there either. As I recall they owe the Suns their 2014 first rounder if they finish outside of the top 13 and they really don't have any young players that will really interest Ainge.
 

southshoresoxfan

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I'm still waiting for the Monroe/Rondo trade, altho I think this off-season is a better bet.  Draft Wiggins or Parker pair them with Monroe Sully Bradley and the nucleus becomes a little cleaner.  Both in trade assets and players.
 

Brickowski

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I'm still waiting for the Monroe/Rondo trade, altho I think this off-season is a better bet.  Draft Wiggins or Parker pair them with Monroe Sully Bradley and the nucleus becomes a little cleaner.  Both in trade assets and players.
This is something Dumars should do, but probably wont. He gave all that money to Josh Smith and doesn't have many wins to show for it (surprise!). Maybe Robdo can light a fire under his old Oak Hill teammate.

The downside of that deal for Celtics fans is having to watch Brandon Jennings for two more years.
 

The X Man Cometh

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Monroe-Sully sounds like a disaster to me in terms of fit. They're the same player. It would be like playing Sully next to Sully. Good players but where's the D?
 

Brickowski

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Monroe-Sully sounds like a disaster to me in terms of fit. They're the same player. It would be like playing Sully next to Sully. Good players but where's the D?
What's wrong with Sullinger's defense? When the opponents only get one shot, that's defense.
 

southshoresoxfan

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I think hes implying overall rim protection. Which can be done by either one thru 5 being good man up or with a traditional rim protecting center
 

Brickowski

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Rick Mahorn was a great rim protector. Sullinger and Monroe would just have to learn what's not quite a flagrant.
 

Tony C

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Having watched the Clippers game last night, they were victimized by three things: terrible refereeing (they were jobbed), weak interior defense, and rebounding that is overly reliant on Deandre Jordan -- especially when he was off the court they were creamed. I really think they could use a Jordan Hill type as a good rebounding off the bench type.
 
Oh, and by the way, if you want a laugh watch Turkoglu imitating an NBA player. I'm not quite sure what Doc saw in him to sign him to a contract...maybe he'll play his way into shape, but he looks like toast to me.
 

Cellar-Door

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Brickowski said:
Lots of sellers, but very few buyers, due in large measure to the new CBA. I don't think it will be an "epic" deadline at all.

Why is Phoenix interested in Gasol? He's out until at least the all-star break and he's a poor fit for their up tempo style. The player the Suns ought to be targeting with Oakfor's contract is Humphries.

I don't see Rondo going anywhere unless Dumars is desperate and willing to unload Monroe.

Who knows about Green and Bass?

As for Cleveland, they have to move Dion Waiters, but where? The NBA has a number of talented knuckleheads, and he's at the top of the list, knucklehead-wise. No. 2 is Larry Sanders.
No they shouldn't.
Pau Gasol is still a really good player in any system, he is perfectly good in up tempo if he is playing C. Humphries is what he is, a mediocre at best backup PF.
 

Brickowski

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According to RealGM, the Gasol talks between Phoenix and LA have broken down. LA's asking price was too high, e.g. Kupchak was probably not content to receive a first round pick in the high 20's.
 

The X Man Cometh

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Brickowski said:
According to RealGM, the Gasol talks between Phoenix and LA have broken down. LA's asking price was too high, e.g. Kupchak was probably not content to receive a first round pick in the high 20's.
 
Good. Phoenix looks like a promising trade partner for Boston. Late 1st rounders and Archie Goodwin. Get it done Danny.
 

Devizier

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Phoenix makes some sense as a Jeff Green destination, but I've become resigned to the fact that the Celtics aren't going to trade Jeff Green this year. Probably because they won't get anything good for him.
 

Brickowski

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Phoenix makes some sense as a Jeff Green destination, but I've become resigned to the fact that the Celtics aren't going to trade Jeff Green this year. Probably because they won't get anything good for him.
IMHO a deal with Phoenix might look something like Humphries and Bogans for Okafor and either Goodwin or Plumlee. Phoenix wants another serviceable big man, not Green.
 

Devizier

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Brickowski said:
IMHO a deal with Phoenix might look something like Humphries and Bogans for Okafor and either Goodwin or Plumlee. Phoenix wants another serviceable big man, not Green.
 
I don't know how much of an upgrade Humphries is over Plumlee, though.
 
My thoughts on Green are that for his many flaws, he's a better player than euro-journeyman P.J. Tucker. Still, there's no reason why the Suns would offer even as much as they did for Gasol, and cap relief isn't worth jack for the Celtics right now.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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Bass (or Hump) and Green for Okafor and Goodwin?  C's clear contracts and pick up a SG prospect. Could swap out Goodwin for someone like Kravtsov and possibly get a 1st out of Phoenix, but I can't see them paying much more for those two. 
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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Tony C said:
Oh, and by the way, if you want a laugh watch Turkoglu imitating an NBA player. I'm not quite sure what Doc saw in him to sign him to a contract...maybe he'll play his way into shape, but he looks like toast to me.
 
Turko Glue used to kill the Celtics back in the day, Doc saw enough of that...but yeah, now it's just an abomination. Even Scalabrine wasn't this bad at the end.
 

nighthob

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MakMan44 said:
Not much of a fit there either. As I recall they owe the Suns their 2014 first rounder if they finish outside of the top 13 and they really don't have any young players that will really interest Ainge.
No, LA traded Phoenix last year's pick and owe them 2015 as part of the Nash deal and owe Orlando the 2017 #1 for Dwight Howard (the trade that's the gift that just keeps on "giving").
 

MakMan44

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I was talking about the Wolves. They owe the Suns their 2014 pick. 
 

nighthob

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MakMan44 said:
I was talking about the Wolves. They owe the Suns their 2014 pick.
Oh, sorry about that. The Suns have so many firsts stacked up I got them confuzzled. I wish Boston had something the Suns needed badly enough to pry one loose.
 

Brickowski

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Want to pry a pick loose from Phoenix? Here's a blockbuster I would do:

Rondo, Green and Bradley to Detroit.
Okafor, Greg Monroe and Jonas Jerebko to Boston. Boston also gets Washington's 2014 first rounder (top 12 protected in 2014, top 10 protected thereafter)
Josh Smith to Phoenix

Boston gets the young center it needs plus another first round pick. It would plan to finish out the year with Bayless and Pressey at the point, and pick up Exxum, Smart or Ennis in the draft (if they don't luck into a top 3 pick).
Phoenix gets Josh Smith for an injured player and a pick that will almost certainly be in the 15-20 range.
Detroit gets out from under Smith's long contract and rebuilds with Rondo, Green and Drummond. Boston throws in Bradley (expiring) to sweeten the deal for Dumars. If Dumars wants to keep Jerebko (one year remaining) and include someone like Datome or Singler (both two years remaining), Boston says "fine."
 

Brickowski

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I'm surprised to learn you're interested in a deal involving Rondo and Monroe.
LOL, yep, I like Monroe for Rondo, especially since it's looking very much like Boston is headed for a first rounder in the 5-8 range this year, where the best player available is likely to be a point guard.
 

Scoops Bolling

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Brickowski said:
Want to pry a pick loose from Phoenix? Here's a blockbuster I would do:

Rondo, Green and Bradley to Detroit.
Okafor, Greg Monroe and Jonas Jerebko to Boston. Boston also gets Washington's 2014 first rounder (top 12 protected in 2014, top 10 protected thereafter)
Josh Smith to Phoenix

Boston gets the young center it needs plus another first round pick. It would plan to finish out the year with Bayless and Pressey at the point, and pick up Exxum, Smart or Ennis in the draft (if they don't luck into a top 3 pick).
Phoenix gets Josh Smith for an injured player and a pick that will almost certainly be in the 15-20 range.
Detroit gets out from under Smith's long contract and rebuilds with Rondo, Green and Drummond. Boston throws in Bradley (expiring) to sweeten the deal for Dumars. If Dumars wants to keep Jerebko (one year remaining) and include someone like Datome or Singler (both two years remaining), Boston says "fine."
Why must every single proposal you make include Greg Monroe to the Celtics? It's been getting on my nerves all season, because it just never ends. It doesn't even make much sense. Monroe is not a good fit for the team; he and Sullinger would be an atrocious defensive tandem, he would require a bunch of money to sign, probably requiring a contract that will be an overpay for his overall value, yet he's not a guy capable of making the team all that much better. He's probably not even as good a player for Rondo, who will cost less as soon as next year. As for the proposal itself, there's pretty much no reason for Phoenix to make that trade given they could almost certainly get Smith for free if they were willing to absorb that contract (and it seems unlikely they'd want to destroy their flexibility like that). It's not even a particularly good deal for Boston given they give up three starters for one, and not even one that's all that much better than the guy they already have at the same position.
 
I get it. He's a big man with great offensive touch. That doesn't mean he's a good fit, and it certainly doesn't mean that every single trade proposal you come up with needs to have him end up on the Celtics.
 

Brickowski

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Those comments aren't fair. I also proposed Bradley to Portland for Myers Leonard (before Freeland got hurt) and some other deals not involving Monroe. I'd be interested in any young big man with upside, so long as the Celtics don't overpay.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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Brickowski said:
Those comments aren't fair. I also proposed Bradley to Portland for Myers Leonard (before Freeland got hurt) and some other deals not involving Monroe. I'd be interested in any young big man with upside, so long as the Celtics don't overpay.
 
Yeah, teams are just dying to give up young bigs with upside. Especially when the other team doesn't overpay. 
 

Brickowski

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"Overpay" is a relative term. If the Celtics were willing to trade Rondo for a young big man, what do you think he would fetch?
 

Brickowski

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Not Josh Smith and Greg Monroe.
Not under normal circumstances, but Smith, with his huge contract, been a disaster for the Pistons and it's unclear whether or not Dumars can pay both Monroe and Drummond. There is also a real risk of losing Monroe for nothing over the Summer, so why not get something for him?

Obviously Dumars would also like to unload Brandon Jennings, but it's unlikely that he will be able to rectify all of his mistakes in one trade.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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Brickowski said:
Not under normal circumstances, but Smith, with his huge contract, been a disaster for the Pistons and it's unclear whether or not Dumars can pay both Monroe and Drummond. There is also a real risk of losing Monroe for nothing over the Summer, so why not get something for him?

Obviously Dumars would also like to unload Brandon Jennings, but it's unlikely that he will be able to rectify all of his mistakes in one trade.
 
First, Smith has been a disaster playing out of position at the 3. At the 4, he's been an above average player. I know everybody loves to freak out about bad contracts, but we're a half a season into this contract and everybody expected there to be growing pains. It was an odd lineup from the start, and something I suspect Detroit recognized as an experiment that might fail. They now understand that a Smith-Monroe-Drummond lineup doesn't work, and I expect them to explore the possibility of moving one or the other.
 
But it makes no sense to trade both Smith AND Monroe. If they trade Smith at the deadline, then they can pay Monroe. On the other hand, if they trade Monroe, then they can play Smith at the 4. So what's the motivation? The right to pay Rondo more than Smith currently makes?
 

Brickowski

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IMHO Smith has been a disaster because of what he is, not because he's been playing the 3 instead of the 4. The Smith signing has already cost Cheeks his job, and Dumars may be next.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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Josh Smith is an extremely, extremely good defensive player who can also be a plus on offense if his coach reigns him in and convinces him not to shoot threes at a ridiculous rate. He's had very good seasons in the NBA, and there's no reason to think he can't continue to do so. Last season he held opposing 3s to an 8.9 PER, and finished 12th and 20th respectively in Defensive Win Shares and Defensive Rating. He also, for what it's worth, shot much better than he has during this half season and is only 28 years old. With the right coach, in the right system, he's a very good NBA player.
 

Brickowski

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But that was last year. This year his opponents' PER is 17.9 when Smith plays SF and 15.2 when he plays PF (per 82games. com). Jeff Green, who costs $5M a year less, holds opponents to a 14.2 PER when playing SF and 18.9 playing PF. That's not a huge difference, especially considering that Green has no rim protector like Drummond playing behind him to erase mistakes.

Maybe Smith could perform better in a different system, but he's always been a chucker who doesn't do the little things. He's been in the league 8 years and hasn't changed. Maybe there's a coach on the planet who could rein him in, but obviously Cheeks wasn't one of them. He's a waste of money. Terrible signing by Dumars, and the Pistons' record shows it.
 

nighthob

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Brickowski said:
IMHO Smith has been a disaster because of what he is, not because he's been playing the 3 instead of the 4. The Smith signing has already cost Cheeks his job, and Dumars may be next.
Smith does one thing at an elite level, play impact defense as a primary help defender. He is amongst the best in the NBA at that. Guess what he doesn't get to do playing with two centers? The Pistons problem is Monroe. He is amongst the worst help defenders in the NBA and is (a la Sullinger) too small to be the post defender. But he has to play there. Dumars' mistake is that he was given a winning lottery ticket (two starting caliber NBA centers), but refuses to cash it in.
 

Cellar-Door

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nighthob said:
Smith does one thing at an elite level, play impact defense as a primary help defender. He is amongst the best in the NBA at that. Guess what he doesn't get to do playing with two centers? The Pistons problem is Monroe. He is amongst the worst help defenders in the NBA and is (a la Sullinger) too small to be the post defender. But he has to play there. Dumars' mistake is that he was given a winning lottery ticket (two starting caliber NBA centers), but refuses to cash it in.
The Pistons would be fine with Monroe if they had a different SF. Drummond and Monroe actually perform well without Smith. The Smith signing was a huge piece of roster mismanagement. A Jeff Green type would have been a much better fit.
Now the Pistons problem is they likely have to trade Monroe because Smith has less value on account of the contract they just gave him.
 

nighthob

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Cellar-Door said:
The Pistons would be fine with Monroe if they had a different SF. Drummond and Monroe actually perform well without Smith. The Smith signing was a huge piece of roster mismanagement. A Jeff Green type would have been a much better fit.
Now the Pistons problem is they likely have to trade Monroe because Smith has less value on account of the contract they just gave him.
Smith isn't a SF. That's the problem. If they signed Kevin Love to be their SF, would the problem be Love or would it be the slow-footed 6'10" center being asked to chase guys around on the perimeter? Monroe just isn't a primary help defender and asking Drummond to do it to hide Monroe (which is what the Pistons end up doing a lot of) actually lessens the impact of the better player to cover up for the other guy.

And, in pure terms, they have one of the best impact defenders at the 4 spot on their roster, a potential DPOY player as paint defender, $17 million in expiring deals and a NBA starting caliber center. Why the fuck would you pay to move an impact defender when you have the assets to trade for an impact scorer, which is what the Pistons actually need at the moment?
 

Brickowski

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Ilyasova isn't a bad player. He shot 44% from beyond the arc last year, led the Bucks in efg% and was right up there with Ellis and Jennings in his per 36 stats. I wouldn't be surprised to see him dealt to a team like Phoenix or Charlotte.
 

Devizier

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Ilyasova wasn't a bad player. But since his back started going out this year, he's been a freaking terrible player. Back injuries aren't a death sentence -- after all Scottie Pippen had a herniated disc removed and proceeded to win six championships -- but for a guy like Ilyasova, I would proceed with an enormous amount of caution.
 

Blacken

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Devizier said:
Ilyasova wasn't a bad player. But since his back started going out this year, he's been a freaking terrible player. Back injuries aren't a death sentence -- after all Scottie Pippen had a herniated disc removed and proceeded to win six championships -- but for a guy like Ilyasova, I would proceed with an enormous amount of caution.
Agreed, but I have an irrational love for Ilyasova's game and I hope he ends up somewhere unBucksian.
 

The X Man Cometh

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Devizier said:
Ilyasova wasn't a bad player. But since his back started going out this year, he's been a freaking terrible player. Back injuries aren't a death sentence -- after all Scottie Pippen had a herniated disc removed and proceeded to win six championships -- but for a guy like Ilyasova, I would proceed with an enormous amount of caution.
 
I don't know what it is but he's been really awful since he signed that big extension.I see people complain about Green's salary on here, I can't imagine what the talk would be if it were us footing that bill.
 
As an outsider, I like Milwaukee's situation more than most. They are looking at a near guaranteed top 3 pick, despite having a fair deal of talent on their roster. The problem isn't lack of talent, its just that the players they have are horribly mismatched.
 
 
Sanders and Henson don't fit together spacing-wise, Greek Freak is still 19 and can't shoot, Middleton is being miscast as a wing scorer rather than a jump shooter, Wolters is a good floor general but can't shoot and the rest of the roster can't either so it just goes from bad to worse.
 
Not to mention you have various mediocrity eating up the shot attempts (Knight who could get better at least, Gary Neal and OJ Mayo, an either broken or bored Ilyasova)
Obviously a lot of things have to go right for them to become a strong team in the conference (hit on the 2014 first, development from Henson and Giannis, trade redunant pieces for better fits of equal value), but you could say that about any team. If they keep drafting the way they have lately they'll have a solid future.
 

bowiac

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I suspect Irving will stay in Cleveland, as he's got enough of an injury history that the extra guaranteed year Cleveland can offer is a big deal.
 

The Social Chair

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Brickowski said:
The problem with teams like Milwaukee and Cleveland is keeping talent after their rookie deals are up.
 
The problem is usually after the 2nd extension. Irving, for example, is going to be an restricted free agent in 2015 if he doesn't sign an extension in 2014. The Cavs would be able to match any offer in 2015. In order to become an unrestriced in 2016 he would have to sign a one year qualifying offer for 9 mil in 2015. Most players won't take that risk, and will end up signing the max extension. That gives Cleveland 8 years to build a contender. That's more than enough time for any franchise
 

The X Man Cometh

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Rondo to the Kings makes a lot of sense on paper. The hangup there is that the Kings will want reason to believe Rondo will resign in Sacramento, and I doubt they'll get it.
 
EDIT: Re-sign, not resign (to focus on his burgeoning connect-4 career?)