You remember what people were saying about the Warriors and what happened, right?
NBA trade deadline "official" rumors and news
- Thread starter DeJesus Built My Hotrod
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The Bucks are good as hell and may well win the title, but the talk about their net rating needs to die. They bumhunt and destroy bad teams because if you don’t have the personnel or scheme to match up with Giannis, the game is over before it starts.
When they play good teams they hold their own for sure, but it’s been a very fair fight in those games. This isn’t Curry+Durant+Thompson—those guys had a whole extra playoff gear that I don’t see Milwaukee having, as good as they are.
When they play good teams they hold their own for sure, but it’s been a very fair fight in those games. This isn’t Curry+Durant+Thompson—those guys had a whole extra playoff gear that I don’t see Milwaukee having, as good as they are.
Sure, Dirk was awesome in the playoffs. I meant looking at his season as a whole. He was about to turn 33 and was a real defensive liability by that point. He finished sixth in MVP voting and clearly wasn't a top-5 player in the league. Carlisle patched together a title-winning team with Chandler propping up what otherwise would be a bad defensive roster, Dirk shooting the lights out, some clutch baskets from Jason Terry, and a bench constructed of popsicle sticks and Silly Putty.
We’ve already beaten them once. Not saying it’s likely but we have possibly the most talented wing trio in basketball plus Kemba. Don’t count them out.
Indeed. And I think an injury to Giannis, or even Khris, would be wildly impactful to that team.
They would have had to match salaries as well, which almost certainly would have meant trading Theis or Kanter. Bertans doesn't fill the same role so I wonder how much of this was reluctance to trade 2 1sts and how much of it was reluctance to interfere with the good things they have going on at the 5 position at the moment.
It’s a terrible year to have a lottery pick, but this is hardly an “all time bad draft” because there are a lot of guys in this pool that will still be in the league in ten years. (If anything it’s a great draft for teams with multiple marginal picks as they’re more likely to hit on rotation players than in an average year.)
I agree with the idea that they don't have an obvious, proven extra gear like the Warriors did, nor do they have quite the absurdity of riches. However, Giannis theoretically has another gear he can hit in the playoffs. Giannis is averaging 30-13 in 30 mpg. His per 36 averages are 35-15-7. In a playoff series if he plays 40 mpg, he could average something like a 38-18-9 and just annihilate everyone.
People keep playing this card, but there were quite a few posters that had watched the available tape, saw the insane athleticism, and wanted Boston to gamble on him. This isn’t ‘03 when all we had were second reports from internet bloggers that knew a guy. Now we just plug the names in at YouTube and watch the video.
Also when your team has three top ten players, including two top five ones, that “extra gear” is called “playing at full speed after taking the last six months off”.
Ethan Strauss, per usual, sums up the Warriors' day nicely. In sum:
DLo's defense sucked, and the Warriors noticed. They don't think he's going to improve Minny meaningfully, meaning that 2021 pick is going to be very good.
The Warriors think Wiggins will be a different player with Klay and Steph around him, and they needed a proper wing.
DLo's defense sucked, and the Warriors noticed. They don't think he's going to improve Minny meaningfully, meaning that 2021 pick is going to be very good.
The Warriors think Wiggins will be a different player with Klay and Steph around him, and they needed a proper wing.
This is false. There were a number of ways to match salaries without Theis or Kanter so long as Poirer was in the deal. Assuming two firsts means Langford wasn’t involved, either Ojeleye or Wanamaker would’ve added enough salary to make the deal work. Ojeleye and Poirer was the logical package as Ojeleye would be largely redundant with Bertans (with our starting wings playing a little more at the 3 and a little less at the 4) and Wanamaker could’ve vetoed a deal. I think that if the asking price was those two plus the Celtics and Bucks picks, you could potentially pull the trigger in this draft year. But I suspect what the Wizards actually wanted was the Memphis pick plus another first, which I think is definitely too high a price.
Note: in a normal or good draft, our own pick and that package would be a reasonable place to draw the line.
This piece was a bit eye-rolly for me. Strauss is now ragging on Russell's defense and overall potential, which stands in contrast to what he was saying when Russell was a Warrior, calling him a "young potential star", and talking about trading him for Towns.
Now the same Warriors writers who tried to hoodwink people into think Russell had star upside and was ready to flourish are trying to pull the same move with Wiggins. Looking forward to Strauss writing this same piece in a year when the Warriors pivot off the Wiggins contract to John Wall. "Well, Wiggins' defense sucked, and the Warriors noticed. Wall has star upside."
And you failed to mention that "young potential star" comment was made only about a month and a half ago - it's not like Strauss said that before the season started and people could see what Russell's Warriors tenure would look like.
SRN's much shorter analysis was much better - the Warriors were trading one bad contract for another, with the contract coming back with a few picks attached, probably a slightly better overall fit, and retaining the flexibility to use the contract in a big trade going forward. It's very odd that Strauss seems to think they traded for Wiggins because they think he can "realize his potential," whatever that means (although I'm sure the Warriors would be elated if somehow Wiggins magically turns into a star now).
Yeah, fair point. I guess I was assuming the Wizards would want actual playable talent back given that they'd be losing Bertans, and an Ojeleye/Poirier isn't really that. In any event, I agree that the Wizards were probably holding out for that Memphis pick and one other first-rounder, which is high for a half-year of Bertans no matter how much shooting he gives you.
They won 10 of 11 going into last years trade deadline.
I'm really surprised Ainge didn't add a forward to this team. If the price on Bertans was too high, I would've at least tried to get a Markieff Morris level guy just to add depth. If any of their top 5 non-centers get hurt, I can't see them making any noise in the playoffs.
...wait, you worry that DANNY AINGE might over-react to the short term? The guy has the longest time horizon of value assessment I can recall in sports. The Jeff Green trade alone will convey value 5 years out. He has the coolest seat of any front-office exec this side of Bill Belichick and Brian Cashman. He may make a trade for marginal value, he may even dangle 4 first-round picks for Justise Winslow, but he's not going to sell low or buy high based on a couple of games here or there.
I am kind of excited to see what happens with the D Lo/KAT Wolves.
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisPalmerNBA/status/1225657170567426050?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisPalmerNBA/status/1225657170567426050?s=20
They might make the Wizards look like the 2004 Pistons, but I feel good for them. Maybe buddies putting up numbers while giving up 125/game is what life is really all about?
I’m not even being sarcastic...I’m happy they get to play together.
I loved the part where he compared a young Klay Thompson, who was a good enough asset at the time to STRAIGHT UP GET YOU KEVIN LOVE (a top-10/15 player) to Andrew Wiggins, who is the worst non-Wall contract in the NBA.
Warriors fanboys are a whole new degree of special.
On the other hand having his best buddy in the locker room might lead to a happy and motivated KATman, a thought that should frighten the rest of the NBA.
Yeah...I’ll believe it when I see it. KAT’s defense is really astoundingly bad when you watch it. He’s a second slow on everything and just has awful instincts.
I hope for the Wolves sake that the happiness of being with his friend gets him going, but he has a long way to go on that end, and it’s already his 5th year.
Maybe KAT can win a game now.
Saw this on the Cs Magic game - Towns has no lost 17 straight games, which ties Olowokandi as the longest losing streak ever for a #1 overall draft pick.
That says a lot to me.
Scoutwithbryan is more meme than man at this point, but he did a good deep dive on Towns' D:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7qf2s2HaoE
He's a special combination of bad and indifferent.
The GSW Warriors trade had nothing to do with Andrew Wiggins and everything to do with Darryl Morey (well, his tweet) and the luxury tax. According to this article (done prior to trade deadline), GSW was facing $60M to $78M luxury tax bill next season based on the reduced salary cap.
GSW will presumably get under the luxury tax this year. (According to this Reddit post, they are $3,116,018 below the line although they only have 9 players, so they have to get up to 14 without going over the luxury tax level. I presume every day helps a bit on the prorated salaries so they will take as long as possible to get up to 12 and then 14).
I can't begin to calculate how much this trade is going to save them on repeater tax (particularly since they are getting a high draft pick this year) - and I don't mean next year but the years afterwards - but I wouldn't be surprised if it once it's all over and done with, it's like a nine figure savings so really any performance difference between DLo and Wiggins is really a wash.
Yep. And without those compounding 3x penalties looming over their heads, you can be pretty sure Lacob and co. are going to motivated to spend like drunken sailors this offseason. That $17M Iguodala TPE now looks eminently usable, as does the full $10M non-taxpayer MLE (can't even remember the last time they had that to play with). Say, Redick and Favors, anyone?
If the performance difference ends up close to wash it's a big win for GS, since on top of the $$ relief they also got a (likely) high first-round pick in a putatively stacked draft. I still think DLo has marginally better market value, and some untapped upside that running P&R and pick-and-pop all day with his BFF Towns will help unlock; but then I guess you could say the same about Wiggins becoming more of a slasher/cutter/dunker alongside Splash.
Call me a "whole new degree of special" Warrior fanboy, but I'm actually kinda looking forward to the breakneck, uptempo game they're gonna run all day with their newly-minted Bowman-Lee-Wiggins-Green-Chriss starting 5 (with a bench of Paschall, Looney, Poole, Smailagic, Norvell, Tosacno-Anderson). It'll be brick-tastic, but I suspect they'll run a couple of late-season tired-legged teams off the floor. And that Curry guy should help a bit with the bricktastic part when he returns in 3-4 weeks.
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I mean, imagine the idea of peak Kevin Love getting traded for Andrew Wiggins??? ;-P
Seriously, I'm not an Ethan Strauss fan (nice prose stylist but a bit of drama queen / click-baiter imo) but I think you're overstating how seriously he made that comparison. I don't have the article in front of me now, but IIRC he kinda floats it out there and walks it back with an implied "nahhhh." Plus, if Wiggins were still on the last year of his rookie scale deal (with a modest 4/$70M extension in the offing, adjusted for inflation) he might be a slightly better than neutral asset.
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Just, like, for anything?
Do other teams know this is an all time bad draft as well?
One of the things that bugs me a lot (maybe it should go in one of the P&G threads) is why sportswriters don't take the time to learn something about their sport. You know, like analytics, schemes, or even something like finance. It just boggles my mind how many sportswriters earn their living about sports and just don't seem to care to learn anything about the sport they are covering.
The most amazing thing about the deal is that somehow Myers got MIN to add a pretty valuable draft pick. If I'm MIN, I tell GSW to go pound sand and look forward to paying the extra $50M minimum in luxury tax. But somehow Myers convinced MIN to part with its first round draft pick in 2021. The Ws front office must have been doing shots all yesterday evening.
(Didn't know who the MIN GM was before just now. It's Scott Layden. What a buffoon.)
Some twitter person says that GS is signing Bowman today and Toscano-Anderson tomorrow, which apparently puts them at $1.86M under luxury tax line with three more players left to sign.
View: https://twitter.com/jgsiegel/status/1225587103397924866
And also - this may be an all time bad draft, but that is just referring to top of the lottery talent. I don't think there is any material difference between non-lottery players this year compared to just about any other year
A lot of comments on the internet about how the Celtics can't take 3 more rookies next year so they should have spent the draft picks on whatever was available. To me, this is silly. 1) The Celtics can certainly flip draft picks forward to future drafts. There are quite a few teams that won't have a pick this year, and I think Danny will be able to find someone who'd be interested. 2) The Celtics can certainly use those draft picks this summer to upgrade the team. 3) The Celtics also have the opportunity to draft and stash. This is what I'd like to see. Punch some lottery tickets on some international bigs and see if one of them pans out. What I have no idea on is, how does that work? Are they still under contract? Do the Celtics end up paying someone to play for Ratiopharm Ulm?
GSW had a good day. Getting that pick on top of everything just boggles. Even if KAT is healthy, there's a good chance it'll be lottery. Fascinated to see the effects a good coach (Kerr), a superstar 2xMVP vet (Curry), a star all-time shooter, and an all-league defensive presence will have on Wiggins' game too (he's still just 24). The unselfish nature of that core is a huge plus as there'll be zero pressure to "get mine" which is the perfect environment in which to learn. Potential for upticks in motivation, fit, shot selection, defense is there. Even if that's all a wash and Wiggins is Wiggins, they got that pick and it looks like repeater relief. Solid work.
Seems like a decent target for the Celtics. The only challenge a bit is that he's not a 5, so it's not an easy decision to cut VP and sign Williams. Frankly, we also have a lot of Williamses already :-}
But, he does provide some depth at F, seems reasonably okay at everything, and has even shot the 3 well in the past. Seems like a Mook with a better personality. I think I'd cut Green and sign this guy. They could also cut Semi, I guess. But, Semi is probably more useful than Green.
But, he does provide some depth at F, seems reasonably okay at everything, and has even shot the 3 well in the past. Seems like a Mook with a better personality. I think I'd cut Green and sign this guy. They could also cut Semi, I guess. But, Semi is probably more useful than Green.
Would have to be either Poirier or Javonte I'd guess. Semi has enough of a role to stay, too early to give up on Carsen, everyone else is a keeper.
I'd cut Javonte for Williams if he wants to come here. I'd keep Poirier over Javonte in case they could use his salary as filler in a trade this summer.
All I know - and it could simply be coach posturing - is that Stevens really seems to love Semi not just for the things he does but his acceptance of his role. I don't see the Celtics letting him go given his versatility on D. I can see one of Green, Poirier or even Wanamaker cut loose. To be clear, I don't think the C's will actually get Williams (I am betting he goes to one of the LA teams or Miami) but the C's have multiple options to take Green or Wanamaker's minutes even if they would miss the latter's ballhandling.
Yep, color me confused. Is this a good draft, an all time bad draft, a putatively stacked draft, or a back draft?
GSW picked up a 2021 pick. The 2020 draft is ill regarded.
Generally, ascribing savings to this move is a bit silly, since it was possible to shed the Spellman and Evans contracts otherwise. Spellman was a positive value asset even. Maybe you need to attach a 2nd rounder to Evans. Wiggins himself makes more than Russell does.
Thank you, I missed that it was 2021 and obviously merged all these draft comments in my head.
2020 is a roleplayer draft, a bad year to have a lottery pick, but if you have a pick in the 20s you’re feeling really good about adding a rotation player to your bench. The high school class of 20 is stacked, so the 21 draft is a great one to have a lottery pick in, but it’s not terribly deep.
But good NBA players don't sign with teams that play in cold climate cities or boring, out of the way places with little night life...