NFL: News and transactions

DJnVa

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AlNipper49

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In fairness to Jones that article never mentioned if it was American dollars that he was talking about. Pesos would make more sense.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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View: https://twitter.com/JordanRaanan/status/1631727308271910912


It appears Daniel Jones and his agents are perhaps more in tune with his market than SoSH.
Or how much pressure the Giants front office might be under to maintain the appearance of being serious contenders. If they have the option of tagging him (either exclusive or non) to see if the improvement last year sticks, it's hard to understand why they'd want to go full throttle with crazy money.
 

Cellar-Door

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Or how much pressure the Giants front office might be under to maintain the appearance of being serious contenders. If they have the option of tagging him (either exclusive or non) to see if the improvement last year sticks, it's hard to understand why they'd want to go full throttle with crazy money.
non-exclusive Tag is something like $33M this year I think, and exclusive is $45M. A deal starting around $40M is likely to save you money if you believe he'll have a good year, because next year the tags will be higher.
 

Mystic Merlin

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And until we see the final structure of any deal, reporter citations of AAV figures should be taken with many grains of salt. The sticker value of these deals can be inflated by dummy years with huge non-guaranteed salaries tacked on the term that the player is very unlikely to play under.
 

NortheasternPJ

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And until we see the final structure of any deal, reporter citations of AAV figures should be taken with many grains of salt. The sticker value of these deals can be inflated by dummy years with huge non-guaranteed salaries tacked on the term that the player is very unlikely to play under.
I’m general I agree with you but this doesn’t seem to be the trend with QBs. Any deal with Daniel Jones getting $40+ on paper is insane even if it’s one of those NHL contracts for 17 years.
 

Cellar-Door

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I’m general I agree with you but this doesn’t seem to be the trend with QBs. Any deal with Daniel Jones getting $40+ on paper is insane even if it’s one of those NHL contracts for 17 years.
That's what starting QBs make now if you let them get to FA.
In terms of guys who teams committed to as clear starters right now:
there are 8 QBs making 40M+
A bunch making rookie scale
Carr, Lamar, Jones are FA
Cousins AAV is $35M on an extension (but really more since it has void years)
Goff AAV is $33.5 on a 5 year extension signed way back in 2019
Ryan AAV of $30M on a 5 year extension signed back in 2018
Tannehill AAV of 29.5M on a 5 year deal signed as a FA in 2020 (void years so really shorter and higher AAV).

So yeah... if you have a QB who isn't ancient had a good year and you (or someone else) thinks he can be your starter for the next 3+ years and not just a bridge for your rookie.... he's costing you $35-40M with the cap going up.
Going forward OK starters are going to get $40M+, and it'll be $50M in a few years likely.
 

JM3

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It's hard to see how a team paying the Daniel Jones's of the world $40m+ can compete with a team paying the Patrick Mahomes of the world $48m (his average cap hit over the next 9 seasons).

That Goff/Cousins/Tannehill/Jones (D or M)/Carr mid tier can't be so close to the elite tier in terms of pay & expect their teams to compete on a high level (with the exception of things like the fluky Vikings 13-4 record with a negative PD).
 

Cellar-Door

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It's hard to see how a team paying the Daniel Jones's of the world $40m+ can compete with a team paying the Patrick Mahomes of the world $48m (his average cap hit over the next 9 seasons).

That Goff/Cousins/Tannehill/Jones (D or M)/Carr mid tier can't be so close to the elite tier in terms of pay & expect their teams to compete on a high level (with the exception of things like the fluky Vikings 13-4 record with a negative PD).
Yeah I generally agree, though I think the real argument is.... you probably can't compete with a team with an elite QB unless you either have an elite QB, or are paying a Good QB almost nothing (see Eagles). You probably shouldn't ever give non-elite QBs a second contract, which is why the Patriots should probably be thinking about avenues to a new QB over the next 2 years.
 

JM3

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Yeah I generally agree, though I think the real argument is.... you probably can't compete with a team with an elite QB unless you either have an elite QB, or are paying a Good QB almost nothing (see Eagles). You probably shouldn't ever give non-elite QBs a second contract, which is why the Patriots should probably be thinking about avenues to a new QB over the next 2 years.
Yes. I think that's what I was trying to say, but probably failed to say. It makes it even more egregious when that mid-tier makes 80% of the elite QBs & not 50% of the elite QBs, though, which is where the true market should be on those QBs because it's not like they shouldn't have a place in the league.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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The Coney Island of my mind
non-exclusive Tag is something like $33M this year I think, and exclusive is $45M. A deal starting around $40M is likely to save you money if you believe he'll have a good year, because next year the tags will be higher.
Sounds right, but I was thinking more along the lines of buying time to see if he can be good for two years in a row before you have to pay for however many more at market rates. If he is, you pay the man his money, but if he's not you can move on.

I am a casual fan and an old to boot, but I'd be inclined to commit to $33M and roll the dice. Whatever is left of my brain is incapable of wrapping itself around "Daniel Jones" and "$40 million" cohabitating in the same area code. If nothing else, it would be more interesting to see if my team can be the Cinderella that wins with a QB on his first contract than watching them earn a fifth to seventh seed for the next several years.
 
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moondog80

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Rudy's Curve

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I meant to post this when I saw it. Thank heavens
Maybe it's just anecdotal bias, but I didn't find Boger to be near the bottom. Carl Cheffers has somehow done multiple Super Bowls. Lord knows I'm not a Ron Torbert fan after the last two years. Scott Novak and Craig Wrolstad are pretty bad and Shawn Hochuli is somehow an even bigger camera whore than his dad. There are some very good crews (Vinovich, Blakeman, Brad Allen is really good too) but there's a whole lot worse than Boger.
 

DanoooME

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$60M guaranteed at signing. Be interested to see the structure but not bad for a guy that got benched last season.
Yeah, the structure of the guarantees is the important part. His last contract was reported as 3 years, $121 million, with $65.28 million guaranteed, but only $24 million fully guaranteed. The fully guaranteed number is all that matters.

With the $60 million guaranteed at signing, that will break down into some combination of fully guaranteed salary for this year as well as a signing bonus. It looks like there may be a void year at the end according to OTC. If so, the bonus is probably large relative to the first year salary. I'll be curious to see how all that breaks down and how the Saints manage to stay under the cap.
 

luckiestman

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Greeny is getting excited…

View: https://twitter.com/robinsportsnews/status/1632790907136163840?s=46&t=OpPcKoWILDyc5ATw0f9y4Q


“Does Derek Carr to the Saints mean Aaron Rodgers is going to the Jets?”

Hilariously Greeny has promised his own darkness retreat if it happens…
Shit, I’ll look into doing one myself. Zach thus far has halted my conversion to Mormonism, Saleh I like but he hasn’t shown enough to get me to convert to Islam, but a darkness retreat is something that is now in play if AR12 wins playoff games (I don’t even demand SB).
 
Aug 9, 2015
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Yeah, the structure of the guarantees is the important part. His last contract was reported as 3 years, $121 million, with $65.28 million guaranteed, but only $24 million fully guaranteed. The fully guaranteed number is all that matters.

With the $60 million guaranteed at signing, that will break down into some combination of fully guaranteed salary for this year as well as a signing bonus. It looks like there may be a void year at the end according to OTC. If so, the bonus is probably large relative to the first year salary. I'll be curious to see how all that breaks down and how the Saints manage to stay under the cap.
Accountants must love the NFL.

Hard to get too excited about Carr, but in that division they could do something. Playoffs would bring some excitement at least. At least it takes a competent guy off the board for the Jets.
 
Yeah, the structure of the guarantees is the important part. His last contract was reported as 3 years, $121 million, with $65.28 million guaranteed, but only $24 million fully guaranteed. The fully guaranteed number is all that matters.

With the $60 million guaranteed at signing, that will break down into some combination of fully guaranteed salary for this year as well as a signing bonus. It looks like there may be a void year at the end according to OTC. If so, the bonus is probably large relative to the first year salary. I'll be curious to see how all that breaks down and how the Saints manage to stay under the cap.
Looks like it's really either 3yrs/$100m with a team $50m option for year 4, or 2yrs/$70m with team $30m options for year 3, $50m for year 4.
(The OTC text description is slightly ambiguous as to exactly when the year 3 $30m becomes guaranteed. I'm assuming March 2025 - OTC says "If on the roster in March of 2024, a $10 million roster bonus due in 2025 will become fully guaranteed. Another $30 million in salary in 2025 will be guaranteed if on the roster that March" - so I'm taking the "that March" at the end as referring to March 2025 but it could perhaps be read as meaning March 2024).
Money is heavily backloaded so year 1 cap hit is small ($7.2m)

All-in-all, less than I expected. If I'm reading it right and the last $30m guarantee doesn't kick in until 2025 they could have him for $7m this year, $36m next, and then cut him with only $27m dead cap (optionally spread over two years) or keep him for $46m in 2025 with only $11m dead cap after that.
 

E5 Yaz

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Calvin Ridley reinstated by the NFL. Jaguars already score a huge prize in the offseason / nfl.com
 

kenneycb

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Yeah, the structure of the guarantees is the important part. His last contract was reported as 3 years, $121 million, with $65.28 million guaranteed, but only $24 million fully guaranteed. The fully guaranteed number is all that matters.

With the $60 million guaranteed at signing, that will break down into some combination of fully guaranteed salary for this year as well as a signing bonus. It looks like there may be a void year at the end according to OTC. If so, the bonus is probably large relative to the first year salary. I'll be curious to see how all that breaks down and how the Saints manage to stay under the cap.
I love the concept of guaranteed vs fully guaranteed money.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Accountants must love the NFL.

Hard to get too excited about Carr, but in that division they could do something. Playoffs would bring some excitement at least. At least it takes a competent guy off the board for the Jets.
Carr instantly becomes the best starting QB in the division…..in large part due to none of the other 3 having a starting QB. So many teams still without a QB.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Lamar given non-exclusive franchise tag: https://www.nfl.com/news/ravens-place-non-exclusive-franchise-tag-on-qb-lamar-jackson.

Ravens really want him to see what his market really is.
It’s risky because if a team goes nuts with an offer sheet - which is very possible given his positional value - they’ll be instantly in QB purgatory at best. I suppose it’s possible they plan to match any offer sheet anyways, and they’re hoping that the two first round pick price tag depresses any offer sheet enough to keep his deal manageable.

The problem with that approach is a team with cap space could structure it with an effective poison pill by inflating the first year salary/cap hit, and Baltimore would be stuck having to match it or walk. That said, there don’t appear to be many teams with that kind of cap space (Atlanta, Houston, Chicago), and Chicago seems to be rolling with Fields while the other two teams could just draft a QB.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Giants sign Jones to 4 years $160 mil and tag Saquon. Not sure of the guarantees on the Jones deal yet but I had a feeling they would get a deal done for the target $40 mil a year on paper for Jones' sake but with guarantees lower to make the real money more palatable to the Giants.
 

nattysez

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Giants sign Jones and tag Saquon.
NFL.com:

Big Blue and Jones agreed to terms on a four-year deal worth $160 million, NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport and Mike Garafolo reported Tuesday, per sources informed of the agreement. The pact includes $35 million additional in incentives, per Rapoport.
NJ.com:

Tom Pelissero of the NFL Network reported that Jones will receive $82 million over the first two years of the deal.
I can't imagine Saquon plays under the tag. He's not playing for 1/$10m with his injury history.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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It’s risky because if a team goes nuts with an offer sheet - which is very possible given his positional value - they’ll be instantly in QB purgatory at best. I suppose it’s possible they plan to match any offer sheet anyways, and they’re hoping that the two first round pick price tag depresses any offer sheet enough to keep his deal manageable.

The problem with that approach is a team with cap space could structure it with an effective poison pill by inflating the first year salary/cap hit, and Baltimore would be stuck having to match it or walk. That said, there don’t appear to be many teams with that kind of cap space (Atlanta, Houston, Chicago), and Chicago seems to be rolling with Fields while the other two teams could just draft a QB.
It's risky but it's probably less risk than putting the exclusive tag on him and having Lamar sit out or hold in.

BAL and Lamar were so far apart I'm sure the reasoning was, "Let's both find out what the market really is." BAL is going to match anything south of Watson and if someone can figure out how to give Lamar a 60M cap number and compete (after losing 1st round draft pick), more power to them.

I don't know how many teams are going to jump at giving Lamar 200+M fully guaranteed at signing (and escrow the money) plus lose 2 1st round draft picks but we're about to find out!
 
Aug 9, 2015
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It's risky but it's probably less risk than putting the exclusive tag on him and having Lamar sit out or hold in.

BAL and Lamar were so far apart I'm sure the reasoning was, "Let's both find out what the market really is." BAL is going to match anything south of Watson and if someone can figure out how to give Lamar a 60M cap number and compete (after losing 1st round draft pick), more power to them.

I don't know how many teams are going to jump at giving Lamar 200+M fully guaranteed at signing (and escrow the money) plus lose 2 1st round draft picks but we're about to find out!
I think both sides are playing this smart. Lamar has the chance to get someone to bite for a big number, and Baltimore protects its interests. I would give him the big deal and the eat the picks because I think he's one of the few guys you can win a SB with as your best player. (And at that salary the cost savings on losing first rounders actually becomes material.)
 

Van Everyman

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Texans docked a draft pick for providing Deshaun Watson “undisclosed compensation” in 2020:

The Texans are forfeiting a fifth-round pick in this year’s NFL Draft and are being fined $175,000 for a salary cap reporting violation, the NFL announced Thursday. Here’s what you need to know:

  • The league determined that the Texans provided quarterback Deshaun Watson, who’s since been traded to the Browns, with “undisclosed compensation” in 2020.
  • The compensation, that was not disclosed to the league, was a membership at an athletic facility in 2020, according to a news release from the NFL.
  • The salary cap requirements in the Collective Bargaining Agreement require teams to report any player compensation or benefit.
This feels a little weird to me … like there’s more to the story than the team just giving Watson a gym membership they didn’t disclose.
 

Cellar-Door

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Texans docked a draft pick for providing Deshaun Watson “undisclosed compensation” in 2020:


This feels a little weird to me … like there’s more to the story than the team just giving Watson a gym membership they didn’t disclose.
It's his spa membership, which came to light when the team was looped into some of his lawsuits for sexual assault.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/texans/article/houston-texans-draft-pick-forfeit-deshaun-watson-17830022.php
 

Garshaparra

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