NHL team to Vegas is "done deal"
- Thread starter soxhop411
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Vegas as an expansion city makes great sense on many levels for each of the other three major sports, but who thinks it makes sense for the NHL? Phoenix has been SUCH a success in the desert.
Meanwhile, Quebec City, complete with an 18,000+ seat arena actually being built, withers on the vine. Between Glendale and this Vegas talk, I'm starting to think Bettman's a saboteur of sorts.
Given Ballmer's $2 bil spree on the Clippers, and the stupid number of billionaires in the world today, Bettman likely smells an opportunity to make some bank.
Well, there's already one there, as the Wranglers are a farm team for the Coyotes (although their arena apparently only seats 9,000).Sprowl said:An ice rink in the middle of the desert: talk about a total waste of energy and water...
As someone who left Vegas two years ago, and is about 80% likely to get stationed back there again in another year or so, I can get on board with this.
Well there's presumably another shoe to drop so the conferences can be balanced and overall number of teams be an even amount.MiracleOfO2704 said:
I know it's a drop in the ocean of worries compared to the mess sending the Coyotes to Quebec last year, but if it's Vegas and Seattle, somebody's moving to the Central division. I doubt it'd be either Alberta team, as they'd almost have to be a package deal. None of the five Pacific Coast teams would make a lick of sense, so either Vegas joins the Central as an expansion team or Arizona, chock full of problems already, contemplate a few years of futility competing directly against Chicago, St. Louis, Minnesota, Colorado, and Dallas for a playoff spot.cshea said:
The Wranglers are actually moving to a new rink on top of the parkade at the Plaza Hotel downtown...interesting project.LogansDad said:
And what, no one remembers the outdoor NHL preseason game many years ago at Caesar's Palace?
Saints Rest said:
The hell with the general fanbase. Vegas pro franchises will live and die on luxury boxes and club/loge season tickets. There's enough secondary commerce and business money in Vegas (2 mil residents in Clark County) to make it work. It'll all be harder for a hockey club than a basketball, but given the NHL's low spot on the totem pole they're the perfect ones to break the ice on what should be a no-brainer for all leagues.
Expansion? Yikes.
I can get onboard with relocation, but I'm not sure the league needs more teams right now. The product is good, if not already a bit watered down. I don't think there's enough talent for another 2 teams, to be honest.
I can get onboard with relocation, but I'm not sure the league needs more teams right now. The product is good, if not already a bit watered down. I don't think there's enough talent for another 2 teams, to be honest.
Honestly, I like that better. If they're going to go expansion then might as well go all the way and put teams in markets that should have teams. All of those markets make a ton of sense.
I just fear that the on-ice product is going to be watered down. That's a minimum of 88 new players to the league - essentially pulling 3 guys off of each current roster to fill those new rosters. When we already have guys like Douglas Murray still floating around the league getting meaningful playing time, it's hard to imagine filling 4 full rosters with quality guys.
I would think this expansion move would have to come with some significant increases in salary cap for teams to continue to fill their teams with quality talent.
I just fear that the on-ice product is going to be watered down. That's a minimum of 88 new players to the league - essentially pulling 3 guys off of each current roster to fill those new rosters. When we already have guys like Douglas Murray still floating around the league getting meaningful playing time, it's hard to imagine filling 4 full rosters with quality guys.
I would think this expansion move would have to come with some significant increases in salary cap for teams to continue to fill their teams with quality talent.
Cause of the chance that local mobsters kneecap the opposing team's best player?Dummy Hoy said:
JimBoSox9 said:
What secondary commerce? Zappos.com? I know a more well-rounded city is something Vegas wants to become long-term, but at the moment I'm confused as to who you think will be buying season tickets outside of the casinos. I just can't see it working, it's a city full of transients that work at night for not much money, and I don't see why the casinos would give a shit about hockey. There will be lots of tourists when certain teams come in, and then flies when Florida or Arizona comes into town.
JimBoSox9 said:
I wonder if "Toronto" means actually in Toronto, or in the burbs like Markham or Missassauga, or further away from town like Hamilton.
Hamilton makes more sense to me since it would give southwestern Ontario a team to root for besides the Leafs.
And here I was thinking Vegas wasn't even going to make the cut next year when it is rumored several western ECHL teams will become AHL teams, as western NHL teams work to bring their affiliates closer..
I can't wait for Toronto II to win a Stanley Cup before the Leafs.
If all this goes down, the 2023 lockout is really going to suck.
If all this goes down, the 2023 lockout is really going to suck.
Interesting, MGM just broke ground on a 20,000 seat arena behind the NY-NY and Monte Carlo. Personally I've been scratching my head wondering why but if they knew this opportunity was coming it makes a lot more sense.
nolasoxfan said:
I wouldn't be sure about that. One, all this talk is preliminary. Two, Quebec City is currently the largest Canadian market without a team. Three, Rogers just spent $5b+ on Canadian broadcast rights and has a business partnership with TVA Sports, the French-language competitor to RDS (sidenote: I'm surprised there's enough of a Francophone market to support two sports networks), under which TVA got the rights to national French broadcasts, though RDS retains regional Canadiens rights (think of TVA as the French NBC Sports Network, and RDS as kind of a broke dick French version of NESN for this purpose).
I would guess that $5b buys a decent amount of say in expansion, so I wouldn't rule out Quebec City yet.
Anyone else worried about a Seattle franchise actually drawing? The Mariners don't draw and they are in the thick of a playoff hunt. The Seahawks only drew when they got really good. The Sounders have drawn well since they went to the MLS, but they've been good the whole time as well.
I guess what I'm getting at is that Seattle is not a good sports town in the sense of supporting shitty franchises. If they won't support an established franchise like the Mariners in the thick of a playoff chase, why would they support a random NHL franchise?
I guess what I'm getting at is that Seattle is not a good sports town in the sense of supporting shitty franchises. If they won't support an established franchise like the Mariners in the thick of a playoff chase, why would they support a random NHL franchise?
You're an idiot operating on a seriously faulty premise.
The Mariners are 9th in the AL in attendance, that is hardly bad. This is for a club that hasn't made the playoffs since 2001 and has been seriously incompetent for years. They're currently just in the second wild card spot, basically off of a white-hot August (they were 56-53 on August 1st) and we also know that attendance tends to lag a bit behind team performance - people in Seattle are probably expecting the shoe to drop (and rightly so, this team is totally overperforming). Despite that they averaged 29,000 for their last home stand and will probably average in the 30s for their three game series with the A's. They were one of the best drawing teams in baseball for most of the late 90s/early 00s and their attendance took a long time to drop to below average - until 2010, actually - despite several 90+ loss seasons. The idea that Seattle doesn't care about the Mariners is fatuous.
The Seahawks had a 35,000 season ticket waiting list in the late 80s, and it took Ken Behring running the team into the ground and nearly moving them to LA for games not to sellout. The 12th man crowd noise advantage has been around since the 70s. The Seahawks, as much as I hate their guts, have probably sold out something like 95% of their games outside of the Ken Behring era. Again, ludicrous.
There is possibly an argument that the NHL will be entering a saturated sports market - Seattle has MLB, NFL, an MLS team that draws 40,000+ a game, it will probably get an NBA team sooner rather than later, AND it is one of the few major American cities that also has big-time college sports within city limits with UW. But the idea that Seattle is not a sports town is fucking retarded.
The Mariners are 9th in the AL in attendance, that is hardly bad. This is for a club that hasn't made the playoffs since 2001 and has been seriously incompetent for years. They're currently just in the second wild card spot, basically off of a white-hot August (they were 56-53 on August 1st) and we also know that attendance tends to lag a bit behind team performance - people in Seattle are probably expecting the shoe to drop (and rightly so, this team is totally overperforming). Despite that they averaged 29,000 for their last home stand and will probably average in the 30s for their three game series with the A's. They were one of the best drawing teams in baseball for most of the late 90s/early 00s and their attendance took a long time to drop to below average - until 2010, actually - despite several 90+ loss seasons. The idea that Seattle doesn't care about the Mariners is fatuous.
The Seahawks had a 35,000 season ticket waiting list in the late 80s, and it took Ken Behring running the team into the ground and nearly moving them to LA for games not to sellout. The 12th man crowd noise advantage has been around since the 70s. The Seahawks, as much as I hate their guts, have probably sold out something like 95% of their games outside of the Ken Behring era. Again, ludicrous.
There is possibly an argument that the NHL will be entering a saturated sports market - Seattle has MLB, NFL, an MLS team that draws 40,000+ a game, it will probably get an NBA team sooner rather than later, AND it is one of the few major American cities that also has big-time college sports within city limits with UW. But the idea that Seattle is not a sports town is fucking retarded.
RSN Diaspora said:
TVA is owned by Pierre-Karl Peladeau, who is basically behind the new arena in Quebec City and will be the guy to own a new Nordiques. So yeah, I can't imagine he paid hundreds of millions for French language rights and didn't get a handshake agreement on his own team at some point.
Two networks isn't that hard to fathom, Quebec has 8 million people and CSN New England somehow keeps their lights on with the Celtics. So having 60 Habs games is pretty good for RDS. Although RDS and TSN not having national hockey is why Expos rumors are picking up again - TSN isn't going to make shit on junior hockey, CFL football, and a handful of regional rights deals (I think they also have the Jets, Senators, and some Leafs games?).
Hockey's biggest demographic fanbase right now is 25-40 year old men. Thanks to the tech boom, Seattle is figuratively crawling with those people, and tech jobs usually give people incomes where they can easily afford a few games a year. My guess is they do less business than other teams on season tickets, but more business than other teams on 4ish and 10ish game packages.
I thought we were a more dignified board in these times. I usually like your posts, Spaceman, but could you change your language. This post is really informative about the Seattle fanbase but the bolded part could be reworked. Thank you!Spacemans Bong said:
http://nypost.com/2014/11/12/nhl-picks-owners-for-likely-vegas-team/
"The National Hockey League has chosen the team of William Foley and the Maloof family as the owners of a Las Vegas expansion team, The Post has learned.
The league has not determined a timetable for expansion, but two western US cities are expected to be selected for new franchises, according to reports.
One of those cities — if approved by NHL owners — will be Las Vegas, sources said.
The franchise fee will be about $400 million, a source said."
"The National Hockey League has chosen the team of William Foley and the Maloof family as the owners of a Las Vegas expansion team, The Post has learned.
The league has not determined a timetable for expansion, but two western US cities are expected to be selected for new franchises, according to reports.
One of those cities — if approved by NHL owners — will be Las Vegas, sources said.
The franchise fee will be about $400 million, a source said."
For what it's worth, the Las Vegas ECHL team killed their plans for a modular rink on top of the Plaza Hotel parking structure. They cited high costs relative to return on income, but the decision strangely came right around the same time as the NHL rumours started flying around.