Now it's Sale's turn: Sale has COVID, will not start Sunday (9/10 update)

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brandonchristensen

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With us being able to pull from the minors, how does taht affect them?
If it's really 10 days he's gone, and we have multiple players out - do we pull from AAA, and AAA pulls from AA and so on?
 

jon abbey

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With us being able to pull from the minors, how does taht affect them?
If it's really 10 days he's gone, and we have multiple players out - do we pull from AAA, and AAA pulls from AA and so on?
Yes, exactly, NY's AAA team played with a pretty sad roster for a few weeks because they didn't want to promote the real prospects more quickly.
 

jon abbey

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Does it count towards service time?
I am not sure how it works for guys who are already on the 40 man and promoted, but if you are not on the 40 man and promoted, I don't think it counts as service time. I am not sure anyone but the 30 GMs (and maybe not even them) really know all the ins and outs of this though.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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This is twice for Barnes, if you remember opening day. Can't catch a break. From the All Star game to losing it completely to this
?

Barnes was on the COVID IL for one day back at the start of August, as have a few different players who've had symptoms or close contacts or something (JD has been on the list twice), only to test negative and be re-activated a day or two later. I don't recall anything on Opening Day.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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cantor44

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I'm curious if anyone has any insight into this: Why didn't the Red Sox simply promote Connor Seabold to start yesterday's game? My understanding that this was a possibility even BEFORE the current COVID outbreak - given the stretch of game in a row without a day off, a sixth starter would be needed for a turn or two through the rotation.

Why pick up a washed up former major leaguer with an era over 7 in AAA, rather than start one of your promising prospects?
 

semsox

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I'm curious if anyone has any insight into this: Why didn't the Red Sox simply promote Connor Seabold to start yesterday's game? My understanding that this was a possibility even BEFORE the current COVID outbreak - given the stretch of game in a row without a day off, a sixth starter would be needed for a turn or two through the rotation.

Why pick up a washed up former major leaguer with an era over 7 in AAA, rather than start one of your promising prospects?
Seabold pitched on the 28th and threw 92 pitches in 4.1 IP.
 

Manramsclan

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No way in hell.

They just got Sale back, they aren't going to suddenly shut it down.
They've also already won 75 games. They couldn't tank enough to get a particularly high pick at this point.
They aren't going to get a high first round pick, but their picks can increase in financial value.

With X testing positive and Covid running through the team, it seems that even with getting Sale back they don't have the depth positionally to withstand the loss of Kike and X. The offense is the strongest aspect of this team and even then it is dependent on a few key guys. Losing one of those guys and another up the middle player on a defensively deficient team for a 5-7 game stretch when the team isn't playing well and the bullpen is imploding does not bode well.

They may not have to tank. It might just be happening organically.
 

absintheofmalaise

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I moved the X and Arroyo threads to this one. If there are more, please post the news here.
Again want to remind people that this thread is for the discussion of the team implications, not for the vaccine status and reasons for that stance. We have a thread in V&N for that.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Munoz positive.
I'm already seeing blame being assigned to the rain delay on Sunday (and the players cloistered in the clubhouse for 3+ hours) as to how this spread, but the time line doesn't quite fit. At least not for the positive results so far.

What does fit is this originating from Brock Holt. Players hanging out with him while Texas was in town. He tests positive on Sunday. Red Sox players start testing positive the following Friday (Arroyo and Kike).
 

mauidano

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If Christian Arroyo didn't have bad luck, he'd have no luck at all. The dude has been good when he can play but has spent a lot of the recent weeks on the IL and now the COVID list.
 

Papo The Snow Tiger

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'We'll never know, but I'm beginning to wonder how many negative test results there are currently on the team. I can't believe I'm even thinking this way, but given the current situation I'm beginning to think that it may be better for the Red Sox, for both personal health of the players and baseball reasons, to ask MLB to postpone the next couple of games, and if MLB says the show must go on to just forfeit them. None of us wants to see anybody catch Covid, and for purely baseball reasons, with around a 25% depleted active roster, it may be better to just accept the two losses now and hope to keep the rest of the guys healthy and available instead of having a couple of more guys go on the Covid IL every day. I'll duck now.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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'We'll never know, but I'm beginning to wonder how many negative test results there are currently on the team. I can't believe I'm even thinking this way, but given the current situation I'm beginning to think that it may be better for the Red Sox, for both personal health of the players and baseball reasons, to ask MLB to postpone the next couple of games, and if MLB says the show must go on to just forfeit them. None of us wants to see anybody catch Covid, and for purely baseball reasons, with around a 25% depleted active roster, it may be better to just accept the two losses now and hope to keep the rest of the guys stay healthy and available instead of having a couple of more guys go on the Covid IL every day. I'll duck now.
I would think the best argument for postponement (or forfeit) is getting the team home before there are any more positives. Don't the players who test positive have to isolate where they are? Coach Will Venable had to stay 10 days in Toronto after testing positive. I assume that Kike and Arroyo are still in a Cleveland hotel. I also assume that Barnes, Perez, Taylor, Sawamura, Bogaerts, and Munoz are stuck in St. Pete for the next week+. Call off the remaining games against the Rays and get the rest of the team back to Boston just so they can be at home should they need to isolate.
 

VORP Speed

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When does the other team get involved in the decision-making? This is clearly more than an isolated case or two and is at outbreak level. Last night Yandy Diaz was in pretty close contact with Xander, holding him on at first. There has to be a decent chance of soon to be positive tests with whoever the Sox roll out there tonight. The Rays certainly don’t need a big Covid issue. Seems like it’s in everyone’s interests to hit the pause button and let the Sox isolate everyone for a few days so they can assess where they are and break the chain of transmission.
 

OurF'ingCity

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When does the other team get involved in the decision-making? This is clearly more than an isolated case or two and is at outbreak level. Last night Yandy Diaz was in pretty close contact with Xander, holding him on at first. There has to be a decent chance of soon to be positive tests with whoever the Sox roll out there tonight. The Rays certainly don’t need a big Covid issue. Seems like it’s in everyone’s interests to hit the pause button and let the Sox isolate everyone for a few days so they can assess where they are and break the chain of transmission.
MLB isn't going to do this. MLB didn't even really consistently do this last year when no vaccines were available, so they sure as hell aren't going to do it now.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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MLB isn't going to do this. MLB didn't even really consistently do this last year when no vaccines were available, so they sure as hell aren't going to do it now.
Games were postponed last year mostly because without vaccines at all, teammates had to isolate from each other to mitigate further spread in their own clubhouse. I think after a few games were played with positive players on the field and no transmission to the opposing team, concerns about that sort of transmission went away. So if there are postponements now (and as just posted, Bloom says that's not a consideration), it will be because the Red Sox are mitigating the spread within the club, not out of concern for opposing teams.
 

Max Power

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No thought about postponements? If I were the GM of a team that had a large chunk on my roster on the Covid list, postponements would be my greatest dream.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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No thought about postponements? If I were the GM of a team that had a large chunk on my roster on the Covid list, postponements would be my greatest dream.
It's probably not fair to their opponents. The other teams have mostly gone above the 85% threshold. The Red Sox have not. If I'm the Rays, why should I change my schedule to accomodate a team that won't get the vaccines? If they want a postponment, tell them to forfeit. Otherwise go pound sand. It's not TB's problem that the Sox have an outbreak because of their lower vaxx levels.
 

mauidano

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It's probably not fair to their opponents. The other teams have mostly gone above the 85% threshold. The Red Sox have not. If I'm the Rays, why should I change my schedule to accomodate a team that won't get the vaccines? If they want a postponment, tell them to forfeit. Otherwise go pound sand. It's not TB's problem that the Sox have an outbreak because of their lower vaxx levels.
EXACTLY! No one felt sorry for the MFY's earlier this season when they went through something similar.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Frankly if I'm the Rays I demand a forfeit because I'll be damned if I let the infected, refused-to-get-the-vaxx Red Sox infect my own division-leading team that's been kicking the Sox' asses all year. I wouldn't give one inch on this issue.

If the Sox want to play at full strength, well they certainly had options to do so. Tough luck.
 

richgedman'sghost

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When does the other team get involved in the decision-making? This is clearly more than an isolated case or two and is at outbreak level. Last night Yandy Diaz was in pretty close contact with Xander, holding him on at first. There has to be a decent chance of soon to be positive tests with whoever the Sox roll out there tonight. The Rays certainly don’t need a big Covid issue. Seems like it’s in everyone’s interests to hit the pause button and let the Sox isolate everyone for a few days so they can assess where they are and break the chain of transmission.
Just to clear up part of your misconception regarding transmission of Covid. I'm pretty sure the virus cannot be transmitted through contact such as a first baseman holding on a runner or a batter getting the virus from an opposing catcher or umpire. Do you have any evidence of a player catching Covid in the manner you describe?
One of the concerns about playing football last year was the possibility of transmission between opposing players particularly during line play. What the scientists figured out was that since football was played outside it was less likely for transmission between plays. Most of the cases of Covid being transmitted was during prolonged contact such as in locker or meeting rooms.
Long story short.. I don't think the Ray's are at a high risk of testing positive for Covid. One final example, when all of the Marlins tested positive last year, they tested the team they were playing and that team all tested negative.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I'm curious if anyone has any insight into this: Why didn't the Red Sox simply promote Connor Seabold to start yesterday's game? My understanding that this was a possibility even BEFORE the current COVID outbreak - given the stretch of game in a row without a day off, a sixth starter would be needed for a turn or two through the rotation.

Why pick up a washed up former major leaguer with an era over 7 in AAA, rather than start one of your promising prospects?
As has been mentioned in various threads, Seabold pitched a few days earlier. But nobody has said exactly WHY he pitched.... I would assume that the Sox knew that this game was going to "be a bullpen game" which means either- throw a bunch of exhausted depleted arms and get our asses kicked... or pick up some jaggass and have him get his ass kicked for X innings. Why wasn't the answer..... "let's have Connor just pitch an inning on his scheduled start and have him make the start on the 31st of August"?
I don't get it and it seems like an utter brain fart on par for me (on an emotional level) with the horrible management during the Houck/MFY's double header that really set the tempo for the last few weeks.
 

catomatic

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Just to clear up part of your misconception regarding transmission of Covid. I'm pretty sure the virus cannot be transmitted through contact such as a first baseman holding on a runner or a batter getting the virus from an opposing catcher or umpire. Do you have any evidence of a player catching Covid in the manner you describe?
One of the concerns about playing football last year was the possibility of transmission between opposing players particularly during line play. What the scientists figured out was that since football was played outside it was less likely for transmission between plays. Most of the cases of Covid being transmitted was during prolonged contact such as in locker or meeting rooms.
Long story short.. I don't think the Ray's are at a high risk of testing positive for Covid. One final example, when all of the Marlins tested positive last year, they tested the team they were playing and that team all tested negative.
Delta ain’t Alpha.
Delta is absurdly transmissible. Piece in the NYT, 10 days ago documented an infection transmitted while one person simply walked past another.
Science suggests that - similar to the relationship between viral load and severity of outcome, the longer the duration of close proximity between infected player X and vaccinated player Y, the greater the chance of a breakthrough case.
 

soxhop411

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Frankly if I'm the Rays I demand a forfeit because I'll be damned if I let the infected, refused-to-get-the-vaxx Red Sox infect my own division-leading team that's been kicking the Sox' asses all year. I wouldn't give one inch on this issue.

If the Sox want to play at full strength, well they certainly had options to do so. Tough luck.
I assume Manfred has final say on any forfeit. So.... even if the sox wanted to MLB may not let them
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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As has been mentioned in various threads, Seabold pitched a few days earlier. But nobody has said exactly WHY he pitched.... I would assume that the Sox knew that this game was going to "be a bullpen game" which means either- throw a bunch of exhausted depleted arms and get our asses kicked... or pick up some jaggass and have him get his ass kicked for X innings. Why wasn't the answer..... "let's have Connor just pitch an inning on his scheduled start and have him make the start on the 31st of August"?
I don't get it and it seems like an utter brain fart on par for me (on an emotional level) with the horrible management during the Houck/MFY's double header that really set the tempo for the last few weeks.
Seabold pitched on Saturday because it was his turn to pitch for the WooSox. It's not like it's a conspiracy. Keep in mind that they likely were planning for the bullpen game and then had to exhaust said pen in Saturday's game, the same night as Seabold's start. No chance to pull Seabold at that stage.

Also, Espinal was skipped in his previous start, was traveling with the team on the taxi squad, and probably was the guy they had lined up as a spot call up for last night's bullpen game until the outbreak and the acquisition of Peacock changed their plans.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Seabold pitched on Saturday because it was his turn to pitch for the WooSox. It's not like it's a conspiracy. Keep in mind that they likely were planning for the bullpen game and then had to exhaust said pen in Saturday's game, the same night as Seabold's start. No chance to pull Seabold at that stage.

Also, Espinal was skipped in his previous start, was traveling with the team on the taxi squad, and probably was the guy they had lined up as a spot call up for last night's bullpen game until the outbreak and the acquisition of Peacock changed their plans.
I get it... but if they knew this was coming up (and they did) wouldn't the most obvious answer (if they're actually trying to, you know... win games) be to make Seabold's scheduled start- his turn to pitch- into a one inning side session with live bats and then be ready to throw 90 pitches yesterday. I didn't mean for it to sound like the FO is conspiring to keep a good man down... just think that the obvious response to the situation was giving Seabold a start.
 

VORP Speed

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MLB isn't going to do this. MLB didn't even really consistently do this last year when no vaccines were available, so they sure as hell aren't going to do it now.
Oh, I agree they won’t do anything.
Delta ain’t Alpha.
Delta is absurdly transmissible. Piece in the NYT, 10 days ago documented an infection transmitted while one person simply walked past another.
Science suggests that - similar to the relationship between viral load and severity of outcome, the longer the duration of close proximity between infected player X and vaccinated player Y, the greater the chance of a breakthrough case.
Yeah, exactly. Early research is showing 1000x viral loads with the delta variant. It’s much more transmissible. All the rules of thumb from last year (6ft and 15mins exposure, etc, etc) and the anecdotal experiences from last season were based on the variants in circulation at that time. There are multiple documented cases of delta transmission from “fleeting” contact. Given what we know as of today, a first baseman chatting up a runner on first for a few minutes—both unmasked, indoors, no sunlight, no wind—is not without risk. If I were the Rays, I wouldn’t be thrilled about sending my guys out there when you know the opposing team is in the midst of an expanding outbreak.
 

Manzivino

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I get it... but if they knew this was coming up (and they did) wouldn't the most obvious answer (if they're actually trying to, you know... win games) be to make Seabold's scheduled start- his turn to pitch- into a one inning side session with live bats and then be ready to throw 90 pitches yesterday. I didn't mean for it to sound like the FO is conspiring to keep a good man down... just think that the obvious response to the situation was giving Seabold a start.
Seabold has only thrown 75 innings above A ball in his career and had a months-long injury to start the year, the most likely explanation is they don’t think he’s ready to face major league hitters.
 
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