NY bullpen 2021

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
OK, with Ottavino gone, let's take a look at where NY stands here:

King/Abreu (Abreu out of options)
Nelson
Loaisiga
Cessa
Kriske/Heller
Green
Britton
Chapman

That's pretty good as is and allows guys like Kriske and Nelson to have a shot to prove themselves, but I am guessing Cashman plans to add someone still.
 

Murderer's Crow

Dragon Wangler 216
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
23,482
Garden City
@jon abbey It's pretty good as is, but wasn't enough in the postseason last year because Britton and Chap were getting used too often. Green is solid but he's had his moments too. The depth is nice but one of those guys needs to emerge, otherwise we're looking at less reliability in the bullpen with significant question marks in the rotation for pitchers who are likely on innings limits. I think its more important than ever for Cashman to get another arm.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
I do think that Cashman will add someone, for appearances in part because it looks bad sending a potential useful reliever to BOS just for cap relief.

But it's also worth keeping in mind all of the SPs on the 40 man, some of those guys could help out in the bullpen at times too.

Cole
Kluber
Taillon
Montgomery
German

(Severino)

Garcia
Schmidt
King (I listed him above already)
Vizcaino
Gil
Medina
Gomez
 

terrynever

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
21,717
pawtucket
What about Severino in the bullpen, throwing gas for two innings? (After he returns.) They have enough starters and depth but as Crow says, the bullpen lacked depth last year with Ottavino struggling. Might take a load off Green, too.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
Another thing that moving Ottavino does is that it means NY has one fewer pitcher who can't be optioned down if needed. Right now just Cole/Kluber and Chapman/Britton are definitely on the staff and out of options, even Taillon has one left. Cessa and Abreu also are out of options but both are pretty expendable too.

Taillon (1), Montgomery (2), German (1), Severino (2), Deivi (2), Schmidt (3), King (3) all have options remaining, and in the bullpen Green (1), Loaisiga (1), Nelson (3), Heller (1), and Kriske (2) all have options left according to Roster Resource.

NY also has Adam Warren back and hoping for a shot, I am not sure Cashman will add another reliever. He needs to add a lefty hitter though, a Gallo trade would be great as would Joc Pederson.
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,649
Arkansas
i dont think we need anything and if we do we shouild wait utill july we are the favorites in the A L and if L A D SD fail to make to the world series we should win that too and SD is 50-50
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,649
Arkansas
and yes i know the white sox astros rays are right there but TB is not as stong for 162 hou has a green bullpen staff other than grekine and the white sox lack a 3rd Sp
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,649
Arkansas
and 1 more thing the MLBPA should complain about this 210 m thing being used like a salary cap i know every team lost $ last season but just offer more per year on short-term deals
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
I agree with most of that but the White Sox have Giolito, Lynn and Keuchel.
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,649
Arkansas
I agree with most of that but the White Sox have Giolito, Lynn and Keuchel.
i agree with mad dog about Lynn in a playoff big spot he is just ok we have a big 3 of our own kubler was a great move and tallon can win 15 games with our lineup
 

DanoooME

above replacement level
SoSH Member
Mar 16, 2008
19,831
Henderson, NV
Another thing that moving Ottavino does is that it means NY has one fewer pitcher who can't be optioned down if needed. Right now just Cole/Kluber and Chapman/Britton are definitely on the staff and out of options, even Taillon has one left.
Taillon's option is limited tho, they can't send him down without permission after 5 years of service time and he's at 4.110. So they could do it for about 2 1/2 months, then they have to get him to agree. It probably won't ever get to that...
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
Taillon's option is limited tho, they can't send him down without permission after 5 years of service time and he's at 4.110. So they could do it for about 2 1/2 months, then they have to get him to agree. It probably won't ever get to that...
Oh, OK, good info. Yeah, I don't think he'll be going down either, I was just trying to point out something that I have mentioned in the past about TB, the more players on your roster who have options, the more flexible you can be. I haven't seen anyone else mention this in connection to the Ottavino move, but I am certain it was at least a bit of a factor.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
Depends on how he recovers but it is a path Yanks carved out for Phil Hughes in 2009. Temporary, one-year thing.
I didn't remember this immediately but Severino himself did this his second year in the league in 2016 at 22. He was struggling to stretch out after missing time mid-season and they moved him to the pen for September, 10 games, 19.2 innings, 2.29 ERA and then he was a top 3 AL pitcher for the next season and a half (with Sale and Kluber). He was 3rd in the Cy Young voting in 2017 and then had a 1.98 ERA in 2018 on July 1, 118.1 innings in. From there he lost it, a 5.67 ERA for the remaining 73 innings, ending up with a very deceptive 3.39 for the season. Since then, he has barely pitched but he is still just 27 in February and he was always a bull when healthy. NY's SP depth now should allow them to bring him back slowly.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
NY signs 38 year old Darren O'Day.

King/Abreu (Abreu out of options)
Nelson
Loaisiga
Cessa
O'Day
Green
Britton
Chapman

Kriske/Heller in AAA

I think there's still another move coming.
 

terrynever

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
21,717
pawtucket
I have always disliked Darren O’Day and his submarine windup. But maybe he will look better in pinstripes.

Who does he bump off the 40-man?
 
Last edited:

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
I haven't heard him rumored but if NY is adding another reliever, I would consider Yusmeiro Petit. He got hammered in the postseason last year but he has been really good four straight years in the AL West, 6.3 bWAR over the last four seasons, which is a ton for a reliever (Chad Green by comparison has 5.7, Chapman 4.6, Britton 4.7).
 

ThePrideofShiner

Crests prematurely
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
10,687
Washington
Seeing all of those numbers for O'Day make me appreciate Chapman more. It feels like he is a terrifying reliever (a la Wetteland), but man is he good. And consistent.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
And extra impressive that he is in the leaders in OPS allowed to RHB as a lefty pitcher, although Brousseau might want those numbers recalculated.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
Ben Heller DFAd to make room for O'Day, a bit surprising to me as he has shown signs of being effective when healthy (admittedly he is not healthy too often) and has an option remaining. Maybe another sign that NY plans to use some of their young SPs on the 40 man out of the bullpen this year?

King/Abreu (Abreu out of options)
Nelson
Loaisiga
Cessa
O'Day
Green
Britton
Chapman

Kriske
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
I didn’t realize how old Heller is, 30 in August, older than Cessa and Taillon and German. I’m surprised Abreu has managed to hold his 40 man spot with no options remaining, but he is still 25 at least.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
OK, with spring training around the corner, let's do a more in depth look at NY's bullpen depth, with thanks to the great RosterResource on Fangraphs (https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/depth-charts/yankees). I think NY might still try to get someone like Shane Greene or Yusmeiro Petit for a few mil, but for now:

Current faves to break camp:

Albert Abreu (no options)
Nick Nelson
Luis Cessa (somehow still here)
Jonathan Loaisiga
Darren O'Day
Chad Green
Zack Britton
Aroldis Chapman

Actual reliever on the 40 man: Brooks Kriske

Young SPs on the 40 man in the minors: Michael King, Deivi Garcia, Clarke Schmidt, Luis Medina, Alexander Vizcaino, Luis Gil, Yoendrys Gomez

Former big league relievers on minor league deals: Adam Warren (hello old pal), Kyle Barraclough, Tyler Lyons, Luis Garcia, Nestor Cortes (yikes)

Non-40 man relievers: Addison Russ, Matt Krook, Trevor Lane

I don't think they can keep Abreu because then the only two of those eight spots where they can shuttle guys down would be Nelson/Loaisiga (Green has an option too but he is their best righty and isn't going down again), so either they need a veteran in that spot like Greene or Petit or a third spot to bring guys up and down.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
NY officially signs Justin Wilson, interestingly Fangraphs has him as the most valuable reliever still out there at 0.5 WAR, ahead of Greene/Rosenthal at 0.4. They will probably give him Severino's 40 man spot once camp opens Wednesday, but again I see no way Abreu is still on the 40 man as of Opening Day, since he is out of options.

Nick Nelson
Jonathan Loaisiga
Luis Cessa
Justin Wilson
Darren O'Day
Chad Green
Zack Britton
Aroldis Chapman
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2007
17,184
Washington
Plenty of good, veteran arms to balance out kids on the shuttle who will get some opportunities in the bullpen too. Sounds good.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
It hasn't been confirmed by NY themselves, but it seems as if Albert Abreu actually has one option remaining, which would open up that bullpen spot and keep him in the organization for now. That seems like good news for Cessa and Warren, NY can fit both of them now if they want (although that would only give them one optionable spot to shuttle guys through):

Jonathan Loaisiga
Adam Warren
Luis Cessa
Justin Wilson
Darren O'Day
Chad Green
Zack Britton
Aroldis Chapman

I think they will need to move Warren or Cessa at some point still, unless guys go on the IL.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
Britton needs surgery for bone chips in his elbow, probably out until June. Luetge and his impressive spin rates may make the team after all. As of now, I go with:

Nick Nelson
Jonathan Loaisiga
Adam Warren
Lucas Luetge
Justin Wilson
Darren O'Day
Chad Green
Aroldis Chapman

Cessa just isn't good enough to keep around anymore, three more runs allowed today in an inning.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
Addison Russ is another guy who could help at some point this year, everyone was shocked he wasn't taken in the rule 5. The usually reliable Jason Martinez of Roster Resources actually has Tyler Lyons making the team now, I had forgotten (tried to forget) he was even an option.

It's worth looking at the RR depth chart, which still includes a bunch of veteran guys on minor league deals but even without most of them, there are a lot of choices.

https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/depth-charts/yankees
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
The eight guys generally expected to be in the bullpen on Opening Day as of now fall into four groups:

Aroldis Chapman: two perfect innings and a new unhittable splitter/changeup that tails back away from RHB.

Justin Wilson/Darren O'Day/Chad Green: the three set-up guys with Britton out, all locks to make the team, all have struggled through two outings so far, Wilson especially, all are consistent reliable veterans and should be fine.

Luis Cessa: 5 ERs in 4 innings in 4 games but somehow he always ends up with a spot, so he is his own category.

Nick Nelson/Jonathan Loaisiga/Lucas Luetge: these guys are the reason I am posting, all look fantastic so far.

Nelson: 6.1 4 0 0 0 6
Loaisiga: 6 2 0 0 0 5
Luetge: 5 2 0 0 1 11

Total: 17.1 8 0 0 1 22
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
While we wait for the update on Justin Wilson's shoulder, let's assume he won't be ready for Opening Day (9 days from today). I think that bumps Michael King onto the Opening Day roster, helpful to have another guy who can go 3-4 innings in the pen while the rotation continues to stretch out.

Michael King
Nick Nelson
Jonathan Loaisiga
Lucas Luetge
Luis Cessa
Darren O'Day
Chad Green
Aroldis Chapman

(IL: Britton, possibly Wilson)

They could slot Deivi in too, but I think King is a better fit for that role, keep Deivi stretched out for when a SP is needed.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
NY has quite a few major league vet relievers at their alternate site already, but they just added Mike Montgomery on a minor league deal, who the Mets released a couple weeks ago after a bad spring.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
Lucas Luetge is a great story and NY had been after him for a couple years before he agreed, but he needs to start throwing up some scoreless outings soon if he wants to stick around. The Yankee bullpen has had ten guys so far throw a total of 41.1 innings and only two of the ten have given up any ERs, Luetge in all three games he has been in so far (4 total in 5 IPs and he did save the pen with 3 innings on Friday) and Nelson with one bad inning against TB, also 4 total, so 8 ERs in 9 innings for those two. The other 8 have combined for 32.1 scoreless.

Chapman 3 1 0 0 1 9
Green 7.1 2 2 0 1 6
O'Day 3.1 3 0 0 0 3
Wilson 1 0 0 0 1 2 (just activated)
Loaisiga 6 2 0 0 1 8
Cessa 4.2 1 0 0 2 8
Abreu 1 0 0 0 0 2

King 6 1 0 0 1 3

Total for those 8:

32.1 10 2 0 7 41
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
NY's top seven relievers are all still going great, King was just sent down but that is because he is the only optionable one. This leaves out Nick Nelson, Lucas Luetge and Abreu/Kriske, 18 ERs in 26 IP combined, all in the minors now except Luetge. The other seven:

Chapman 7 2 0 0 3 17
Green 13.1 7 3 1 3 14
O'Day 8 7 2 2 1 9
Wilson 6 5 2 2 2 5
Loaisiga 14.2 9 2 2 2 16
Cessa 11.2 6 5 2 6 15
King 11 4 0 0 4 9

Total for those 7:

71.2 40 14 9 21 85, a 1.13 ERA and a 0.851 WHIP.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
O'Day out for at least a month with a 'rotator cuff strain', so guys like Luetge and King and Nelson will get more opportunities to succeed. Here's how I think it lines up currently:

King
Luetge
Cessa
Peralta
Wilson
(O'Day, expected back in June?)
Loaisiga
Green
(Britton, expected back when eligible at the end of May)
Chapman

If Wilson doesn't get more consistent Peralta could move into the second lefty slot quickly, he looked good in his first inning for NY. Also still very optimistic about Nick Nelson as a 1-2 inning guy longer term, here are the other 40 man pitchers currently:

Guys who have already been up some:

Nick Nelson
Deivi Garcia
Albert Abreu
Brooks Kriske

High ceiling SP prospects who were not ready last we had minor league games, all 21-24:

Luis Medina
Alexander Vizcaino
Luis Gil
Yoendrys Gomez
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
Also I am pretty sure NY still has veterans like Mike Montgomery (32) and Adam Warren (34) and Kyle Barraclough (31) around, we will know more about all of this once minor league games finally begin again this week (hurrah!). Some teams have announced their rosters but I haven't seen any of NY's teams yet.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
NY showing some cracks here behind the dominant duo of Chapman/Loaisiga. Green was in that group until today when he melted down and blew the game. O'Day and Britton are out, Wilson is a mess, Peralta and Cessa are next up to larger roles, maybe more of King/Abreu.

Also it has only been a few games, but Nelson, Kriske and Deivi have all been hit hard in AAA (career high seven walks for Deivi today, yoiks), Adam Warren (also in AAA) may be closer to another shot than anyone thinks. Montgomery and Barraclough are also both on Scranton as I thought above, but both of them also had awful appearances already.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
Update here:

The back end trio of Chapman/Loaisiga/Green continue to be superb, a collective 60.2 34 15 11 12 76, 1.63 ERA and 0.758 WHIP, 11.3 K/9.

O'Day and Britton are still out, no updates on O'Day means at least another month and Britton is still aiming for the end of the month.

Luetge has solidified his spot quite a bit after a rocky first two weeks, 11 straight scoreless innings since April 20. Wilson is still inconsistent but not going anywhere, Peralta has been great in six out of seven outings, a two run HR allowed in the other his only blemish so far.

That is six of eight spots, King and Cessa are the other two currently. King can always be optioned if needed but Cessa has to be close to the brink again (yes, I have been saying/hoping this for years, I know). His line since April 16 has been 10.1 11 11 6 10 10, he should be traded ASAP as NY has a bunch of likely better options in AAA currently, not even counting Deivi Garcia who needs to stay stretched out as starter #6.

Albert Abreu: We just saw him on Monday, he has not allowed a hit for NY so far this season (5 0 1 1 4 7 in 3 games).

Nick Nelson: NY was very high on him coming into the season but he had some rough outings combined with bad luck. He also struggled in his first outing in AAA on May 4, but has been back to the guy NY envisioned in his past three outings: 6.2 3 0 0 1 11.

Adam Warren: Quietly doing his job yet again and waiting for a chance, 5 5 1 1 1 7 so far in 3 games.

Nestor Cortes: I am as shocked as anyone to see his name pop up semi-realistically for NY yet again, but he has been awesome for Scranton so far, 8.2 2 0 0 1 13 in 3 games.

Maybe they can finally trade/dump Cessa once Britton or O'Day is back, it seems to me like there is plenty of depth there now (I did not even mention guys like Kriske or Addison Russ) but I can see erring on the conservative side in real life.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
Kyle Barraclough released from AAA, he has pretty good numbers so maybe he just realized how buried he was with NY's depth and thought he would have a better chance elsewhere. A lot of walks though, maybe that was it: 14 5 5 5 11 24 for Scranton, 11 games.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
Barraclough signed with the Twins and was assigned to AAA.

Lucas Luetge has been incredible for two full months now, after a slow start. Since April 20, he has a 1.09 ERA, 24.2 17 6 3 4 25 combined.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
O'Day and Justin Wilson both pitched a scoreless inning to start their rehab outings in AAA last night, so NY will have a numbers crunch soon. Current pen listed below, guys who can be optioned starred:

*Cortes
Cessa
*Peralta
Luetge
*Loaisiga
*Green
Britton
Chapman

Clearly the bottom five aren't going anywhere, Peralta has to be one of the moves and Cortes likely the other despite how good he has been (12.1 9 3 2 6 16, 1.46 ERA), Cessa and his incriminating videos of Cashman survive yet again. Justin Wilson could/should maybe be traded once he shows he is healthy.
 

terrynever

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
21,717
pawtucket
Why did Boone not use Britton in the 8th last night? Must be a good reason and I’m not following closely enough to know.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
Why did Boone not use Britton in the 8th last night? Must be a good reason and I’m not following closely enough to know.
He was warming Loaisiga in the 7th when it was still tied and Cole was in some trouble, but dunno why Loaisiga was the first guy up after pitching so much on Sunday.
 

terrynever

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
21,717
pawtucket
He was warming Loaisiga in the 7th when it was still tied and Cole was in some trouble, but dunno why Loaisiga was the first guy up after pitching so much on Sunday.
Boone’s bullpen usage rules are incoherent, inconsistent and inadequate. Using Loiasiga after 36 pitches two days earlier is a lesson in how you burn out a young reliever.
 

ThePrideofShiner

Crests prematurely
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
10,687
Washington
To me, Loiasiga is our Ramiro Mendoza. Can go more than one inning and can be used anywhere from the 4th-6th. Green in the 7th. Britton 8th. Chapman 9th.