Offensive depth chart -- down in the trenches

[Cellar-Door]

I would leave Onwenu at RG, but I get the idea that LG is both a more valuable position and that they like Robinson most of their bad guards and he's the most likely to have soemthing. Also they want to be able to run.

I think Strange is going to be the C when he returns. The Ben Brown game 1 was fun... but it's become pretty clear he's arguably our worst OL playing real snaps, and he's bad at everything.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

But one not so slight concern I have is precisely that Onwenu's play has been uninspiring at best this season. I'd much rather try and get him sorted out into what they believe to be his best position than to move people so that Robinson gets as many snaps as possible at RG.

My own bias is that this isn't the kind of situation where there's only one "right" way to manage and develop the line, and everything else is wrong. Which is to say: I got no objection to your preference for keeping Onwenu at RG. I mean, that's my gut instinct, too

I also don't really object to the team moving him over. The coaching staff is surely as clear about the downsides of this as we are. They have some benefit in mind that we can only guess at. They are more motivated than we are to get this right, have more information, and have probably spent a lot more time debating the pros and cons of what they see as their options

FWIW, I was seeing an analysis of the degree to which different linemen were 'winning' their individual matchups this season and it had Onwenu as the 46th best tackle or guard in the league by this metric. On any given Sunday there are 128 starting tackles and guards across the league. If this metric is ballpark accurate that suggests Onwenu has done his job this season better than two-thirds of them. Or put another way: has been the kind of guy that on an league-average team might be the second-best guy on your line. I have no idea if that's inspiring or uninspiring, but FWIW there it is



Edit/update: Onwenu's 'win' rate was a lot better on passing plays than running plays. So, if you (or anyone else) had the reasonable desire for OLine to be good at both... well, only being good at one might be pretty uninspiring

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

I'm guessing they see something they like in Robinson as they keep pushing to get him in the lineup, only to find nope not ready yet.

Yes. I don't know if this is true, but I imagine them doing all this work with him in practice on how to do with different cops and spins, then sending him out after a couple of weeks to see how he does, and then back in practice it's "OK, let's try this again..."

You think this guy could be a good starter in 3-4 years this may the best path for him? Not my area of expertise...

I think Strange is going to be the C when he returns.

+1

That's the obvious move. So maybe they'll try him at RT?

 

[Cellar-Door]

Nate Tice commented on it, basically said he thinks it's a case of Jordan has regressed and he's giving you nothing, so need to short up LG and Robinson is a draft pick who showed flashes (Thorn thought the same early in the year) and it doesn't make sense to not play him for Jordan.

 

[SMU_Sox]

@Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache Reps will take care of it and coaching but I have hardly any hope in Robinson or Sow getting better at this. It's like I was telling Eck's Sneaky Cheese earlier this year about Sow... these kinds of issues are hard to fix and both guys have a long time playing with them. They might not ever get better. Maybe they do but we've seen absolutely nothing this year that indicated either guy has progressed in those ways. Super frustrating but also kind of expected. Guys who show no awareness in pass pro don't usually develop awareness later. There is a damn good reason Robinson was considered a late day 3 pick.

It's always possible. Likely? No.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

@Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache Reps will take care of it and coaching but I have hardly any hope in Robinson or Sow getting better at this. It's like I was telling Eck's Sneaky Cheese earlier this year about Sow... these kinds of issues are hard to fix and both guys have a long time playing with them. They might not ever get better. Maybe they do but we've seen absolutely nothing this year that indicated either guy has progressed in those ways. Super frustrating but also kind of expected. Guys who show no awareness in pass pro don't usually develop awareness later. There is a damn good reason Robinson was considered a late day 3 pick.

It's always possible. Likely? No.

Yeah, that's my memory of your take on the situation

 

[Saints Rest]

I would leave Onwenu at RG, but I get the idea that LG is both a more valuable position and that they like Robinson most of their bad guards and he's the most likely to have soemthing. Also they want to be able to run.

I think Strange is going to be the C when he returns. The Ben Brown game 1 was fun... but it's become pretty clear he's arguably our worst OL playing real snaps, and he's bad at everything.

Yes. I don't know if this is true, but I imagine them doing all this work with him in practice on how to do with different cops and spins, then sending him out after a couple of weeks to see how he does, and then back in practice it's "OK, let's try this again..."

You think this guy could be a good starter in 3-4 years this may the best path for him? Not my area of expertise...

+1

That's the obvious move. So maybe they'll try him at RT?

How is moving Strange to C obvious? What am I missing? I just read his bio and scouting report. He actually started more games in college at LT than at C (a whopping total of 1). He did spend time at C during Senior Bowl week and impressed, but it seems a long way from 1 FCS start and some practice week drills to an NFL starting lineup, especially at the position that is seemingly the most cerebral of all the OLine.

 

[SoxinSeattle]

Might be based on this quote. I suppose it depends on who the weakest link is when Strange is healthy.

“One hundred percent,” Mayo said when asked if the team would give Strange a look at center. “I mean, any of those interior spots. He can play guard, he can play center, and we have to get the best person out there. I think he has the ability, the physical tools to be able to do it.”

 

[Cellar-Door]

How is moving Strange to C obvious? What am I missing? I just read his bio and scouting report. He actually started more games in college at LT than at C (a whopping total of 1). He did spend time at C during Senior Bowl week and impressed, but it seems a long way from 1 FCS start and some practice week drills to an NFL starting lineup, especially at the position that is seemingly the most cerebral of all the OLine.

He played 2 games at C in college, worked out there in the pre-draft process and many thought it was his future positon (in part due to his athleticism but lack of bulk)... but yeah a big part of it is that the coaches said they were potentially putting him there.

 

[sezwho]

He played 2 games at C in college, worked out there in the pre-draft process and many thought it was his future positon (in part due to his athleticism but lack of bulk)... but yeah a big part of it is that the coaches said they were potentially putting him there.

I thought it was at least in part because his plus athleticism and (relative) lack of size/power would play better at C. A quick google search shows 6'4.5 310 is about avg for a center but would make a pretty small guard. If there was a concern for him coming out, it was a lack of inline power, but a corresponding plus for movement and angles. There's also an observation the he struggled to hold up against the bigger d lineman as a rookie, but when I read it closely its hard to know if is coming from Klemm or the author. Either way, he wasn't blowing anyone off the ball.

 

[cshea]

They're starting Strange's clock today.

 

[Saints Rest]

They're starting Strange's clock today.

I wonder if it will run as quickly as Barmore's.

 

[Granite Sox]

I know they’ve talked a bit about playing him at C, but I have to think he’d be more valuable immediately at his usual LG position in place of Jordan.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I know they’ve talked a bit about playing him at C, but I have to think he’d be more valuable immediately at his usual LG position in place of Jordan.

Depends... Brown is probably worse than Jordan, so if you think you get equal production from him you'd rather him at center. Also long term who knows how long (if any) Andrews is going to be here, and they like Robinson as a project, so if Strange can show something at C....

 

[Granite Sox]

Down the road I certainly agree. But plugging him in at a position he’s never played in the NFL after missing a full calendar year and with minimal practice time seems a little risky to me. *shrug*

 

[Van Everyman]

Depends... Brown is probably worse than Jordan, so if you think you get equal production from him you'd rather him at center. Also long term who knows how long (if any) Andrews is going to be here, and they like Robinson as a project, so if Strange can show something at C....

Here’s what Mayo said about it – does sound like an option:

Strange, who served as the starting left guard for the bulk of the 2022 and ‘23 seasons, would theoretically return to his old spot. But there’s also been some conversation about seeing if he could play some center.

“He does have the flexibility to play center, and play guard,” Mayo said Wednesday. “He’s been getting extra work in at center. Dave Andrews has done a good job with him, as well.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/11/20/sports/patriots-cole-strange-return/

 

[ShaneTrot]

I am interested to see what Strange can do in AVP's west coast-like offense. He is a very good athlete for someone his size.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

I'm going to say the same thing on the "which position does Strange play" question as I did to the "When should Maye start" question... I trust the coaching staff to make a better decision than any of us sitting at home, since they have way more information and motivation to get it right than we do

 

[Eddie Jurak]

The Patriots have released starting LG Michael Jordan, who has played 87.7% of the snaps this season. In his place, they have claimed guard Lester Cotton (6-4, 325) on waivers from the Dolphins.

View: https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1861539626093015230


Cotton has been around for a few years, started 8 games for Miami last year and 10 total in his career.

I guess MJ should have stuck with basketball.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

Do these tea leaves suggest Strange is starting at LG this weekend?

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Doesn’t say great things about the likes of Sow and Robinson that they couldn’t beat out Jordan, despite the Patriots thinking so little of him they’re willingly to just casually toss him on the trash heap.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

Decent chance Jordan ends up on the practice squad if nobody else wants him

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Doesn’t say great things about the likes of Sow and Robinson that they couldn’t beat out Jordan, despite the Patriots thinking so little of him they’re willingly to just casually toss him on the trash heap.

It has been noted that Sow has not looked the same since his injury. As to Jordan, he was one of their better performers early on, but his play has deteriorated.

But, yes, it is not good.

 

[Cellar-Door]

View: https://twitter.com/Patriots/status/1862599088761364748


Srange ruled out, which is disappointing

 

[JohnnyTheBone]

Michael Jordan has returned to New England via the Practice Squad.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Michael Jordan has returned to New England via the Practice Squad.

It would be fiunny if they elevate him for this game and strat him at LG.

 

[Cellar-Door]

More struggles today. Hopefully Strange is back next week, but also... Caedan Wallace for Jacobs would be great too.

 

[JokersWildJIMED]

Several phantom hold calls and the team ran for over 200 yards...will take that every day

 

[Cellar-Door]

Several phantom hold calls and the team ran for over 200 yards...will take that every day

Everyone runs for 200 against IND, they stink. They had a bunch of holds and gave up too much quick pressure, particularly in the red zone.

Edit- a little unfair, it was a good run day, but key errors in the redzone killed them.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I thought that Goncalves looked pretty good yesterday. SSS of course, but our meh pass rush had a total of 2 QB hits in 24 attempts. I don't remember hearing his name yesterday, which would be nice for a change here.

 

[DJnVa]

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

The point about Michael Jordan is a good one. If you asked me what the success stories of the year w/r/t the Oline, I'd say:

• Lowe has been better than I was prepared for, especially in pass protection, which is the most important job for a LT
• Michael Jordan sure looks like a solid LG , especially in pass pro
• Onwenu at RG works

The bolded part, while optimistic, has not aged well

 

[BostonFanInCanesLand]

Step on up, Caeden Wallace. (Back at practice yesterday). No updates on Strange yet.

Edit: the Globe says:

The offensive line is also awaiting the potential return of Cole Strange, whose activation window opened Nov. 20. The Patriots have until Wednesday to activate him off the physically unable to perform list in order for him to play this season.

 

[SMU_Sox]

I'd like to think they might have some solid backups next year but could use to fill LT, LG, C, RT.

Andrews play has been declining and he might not be back. Even if he his, his days are numbered. Strange is probably never going to be more than a mid-tier starter at best, even at C. Sow and Robinson are just so bad in pass pro they aren't starter material. Wallace couldn't beat out dreck and then was awful in his start before getting hurt. You can always have year 2 leaps but look at Sow. Also, going forward, let's remember that guys who are total ass in pass pro are not going to start long term even if they are good run blockers and PFF and Brandon Thorn like them .

 

[NextBigThing8184]

I'd like to think they might have some solid backups next year but could use to fill LT, LG, C, RT.

Andrews play has been declining and he might not be back. Even if he his, his days are numbered. Strange is probably never going to be more than a mid-tier starter at best, even at C. Sow and Robinson are just so bad in pass pro they aren't starter material. Wallace couldn't beat out dreck and then was awful in his start before getting hurt. You can always have year 2 leaps but look at Sow. Also, going forward, let's remember that guys who are total ass in pass pro are not going to start long term even if they are good run blockers and PFF and Brandon Thorn like them .

yeah they need basically a whole new offensive line - which obviously won’t happen in one offseason

I know there’s an extreme shortage of good NFL OL leaguewide but you have to start to wonder if Groh/Wolf (and their scouting guys) are part of the Pats problem here or if it’s position coaching.

Just about everyone they’ve drafted or signed has been awful. Granted, it’s mostly mid/late picks and scrap heap guys so that’s probably the bulk of it.

Lowe, who might have legitimately been the worst OT I’ve ever seen last year, is weirdly the only guy I can think of who has actually taken a step forward in his year 2 development.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Not a huge surprise since his practice window was ending, but Strange has been activated off IR (no news who got cut to make it happen)
https://bsky.app/profile/adamschefter-mirror.bluesky.bot/post/3lcy2me2tcn2z

Edit- forgot they released Osborn, so they already had the spot open.