Offensive depth chart -- down in the trenches
- Thread starter Saints Rest
- Start date
https://www.patriots.com/news/inactives-analysis-patriots-g-sidy-sow-to-make-season-debut-lb-anfernee-jennings-inactive-for-sunday-s-game-vs-49ers
Lowe and Jordan are out but Sow is back.
Lowe and Jordan are out but Sow is back.
If they had anyone else... he has been so ridiculously bad today. He has been bad as a run blocker and in pass pro. Wallace is out. Andrews is out. This is a doomsday scenario.
Yep. Maybe 3 clean pockets today, and to their credit, they took chances downfield when they could. Just awful, and also predictable.
Cross posting this from the game goats thread and adding to it for the context of this thread.
View: https://twitter.com/dougkyed/status/1840604415188959248?s=46&t=9f7MiLx6Rs29ViAoQbOJtw
Per Doug Kyed:
Patriots QB Jacoby Brissett was under pressure on 19 of 40 dropbacks, per PFF. Patriots OL allowed 21 total pressures.
LT Demontrey Jacobs: 7 (one sack, two hits)
RG Layden Robinson: 7 (one sack, two hits)
LG Sidy Sow: 4 (one sack, one hit)
RT Mike Onwenu: 3
C Nick Leverett: 0
C David Andrews: 0
Brissett has been under pressure on a league-high 47.2% of dropbacks this season.
PFF counts sacks differently.
A couple things. I have noticed that PFF is crediting less sacks and pressures to Onwenu than we are as a board. It could be grading bias or human error in grading regardless of bias.
The biggest problems with Robinson and Sow are the mental side of pass pro. They have other issues but that is the worst one and it will only get better with reps and coaching. It's also hard to learn how to do it without working with a consistent OT next to you (or C). I am concerned that Sow hasn't really improved there since last year and Robinson seems completely oblivious to blitzers and twists still in week 4. I had hoped for even minor improvements there with them there, and it could still happen, but it is discouraging to see them flounder.
You can likely fix this somewhat what Michael Jordan comes back and he takes RG.
You also hope that the more time a line (any line!) gets consistent reps together the line play is better.
And when Lowe gets back LT should settle down a little bit. Little is doing the heavy lifting there.
Strange might even come back and given them below average to average pass protection which is better than what they are getting now at OG.
This is a lot of copium and it's another week that points to you might need 3-4 starters next year on the OL (David Andrews is getting up there, his play is declining, and he isn't healthy - nothing set in stone with Andrews but he has some risk with him going forward.).
View: https://twitter.com/dougkyed/status/1840604415188959248?s=46&t=9f7MiLx6Rs29ViAoQbOJtw
Per Doug Kyed:
Patriots QB Jacoby Brissett was under pressure on 19 of 40 dropbacks, per PFF. Patriots OL allowed 21 total pressures.
LT Demontrey Jacobs: 7 (one sack, two hits)
RG Layden Robinson: 7 (one sack, two hits)
LG Sidy Sow: 4 (one sack, one hit)
RT Mike Onwenu: 3
C Nick Leverett: 0
C David Andrews: 0
Brissett has been under pressure on a league-high 47.2% of dropbacks this season.
PFF counts sacks differently.
A couple things. I have noticed that PFF is crediting less sacks and pressures to Onwenu than we are as a board. It could be grading bias or human error in grading regardless of bias.
The biggest problems with Robinson and Sow are the mental side of pass pro. They have other issues but that is the worst one and it will only get better with reps and coaching. It's also hard to learn how to do it without working with a consistent OT next to you (or C). I am concerned that Sow hasn't really improved there since last year and Robinson seems completely oblivious to blitzers and twists still in week 4. I had hoped for even minor improvements there with them there, and it could still happen, but it is discouraging to see them flounder.
You can likely fix this somewhat what Michael Jordan comes back and he takes RG.
You also hope that the more time a line (any line!) gets consistent reps together the line play is better.
And when Lowe gets back LT should settle down a little bit. Little is doing the heavy lifting there.
Strange might even come back and given them below average to average pass protection which is better than what they are getting now at OG.
This is a lot of copium and it's another week that points to you might need 3-4 starters next year on the OL (David Andrews is getting up there, his play is declining, and he isn't healthy - nothing set in stone with Andrews but he has some risk with him going forward.).
Maybe he is their binky and they are protecting him.
If there is one positive from yesterday, is it that Leverett seemed to do OK coming in for Andrews?
Leverett was one of the few positives from yesterday! Hopefully they found a guy who works.Maybe he is their binky and they are protecting him.
If there is one positive from yesterday, is it that Leverett seemed to do OK coming in for Andrews?
I too was expecting full jail break given where things were even before Andrews went down. He seemed to hang in there.
Leverett I think is actually usually a good solid backup IOL as a blocker.... his problem in preseason is he'd get in his head about the snaps once he screwed one up and it messed up his timing so guys were already driving him back before he was up.
Yep. Great observation. I remember this happening to Woody in the early days too. Executing accurate shotgun snaps, on the correct count, and then immediately having to block one or more 320#+ guys trying to pancake you...it's not an easy thing. Thought he looked great yesterday.
So I woke up this morning thinking about whether they start Leverett at RG
That doesn't solve everything, but Layden might look better if he mostly plays as the extra lineman in Jumbo formations, where we're either running or he doesn't have single coverage responsibilities in the interior of the line
That doesn't solve everything, but Layden might look better if he mostly plays as the extra lineman in Jumbo formations, where we're either running or he doesn't have single coverage responsibilities in the interior of the line
I'm still hoping they move Onwenu back to RG, and try Wallace at RT.
Wallace left in a boot yesterday so this may take a while. It does make sense though, longer term.
Swap out “Robinson” for “Mafi” and this is basically where the Pats ended last season as far as the IOL goes
disappointing that Sow hasn’t progressed and Robinson is struggling. Early days still but it doesn’t appear the coaching has any quick fixes.
They can’t rely on these mid/late round guys developing (at all, or quickly). They have tons of cap space, paying for known mediocrities is worth it if it stabilizes things
OL play is so bad league wide and so critical for a young QB’s success that paying a guy who isn’t great (like Hunt) a big chunk of money is actually a pretty good use of cap space at this point.
disappointing that Wolf seems intent on finding cheap “value” solutions instead of just using the otherwise unused cap space to help stabilize things.
When you play from behind defenses get to tee the pass rush off so you better have good pass protectors... but that's just Captain Obviousman talking.
PFF has our line ranked 29th for run blocking and 30th for pass blocking. When we started the season there was optimism this would be a top 15 or maybe even a top 10 kind of run blocking unit that hopefully could be bottom 10 for pass pro but not bottom 5. Now it's close to bottom 3 with both. Hopefully the with the easier schedule coming up this won't be as bad.
Too early to count out Sow or Robinson. This past week was the first time Sow practiced in over a month, and he was listed as limited all week. He had a strong preseason by all accounts. Robinson? Who knows, obviously, but we should expect the growing pains to last for at least half a season.
Again, there were no other options for Wolf given the horrible free agent market for tackles this past offseason.
I'm reading the 2025 NFL Draft is deep at OT in multiple places(here's one via PFF) do the SOSH experts agree? Is 2025 a double dip time for OT given the struggles to date, I don't see a position with more need for the Pats across the field than OT in the 1st round and second round right now if the right players are available.
No QB survives this line, and I feel bad for Jacoby being the NFL version of cannon fodder.
No QB survives this line, and I feel bad for Jacoby being the NFL version of cannon fodder.
There are probably 3-4 guys who will go in round 1 but none are top 5 or top 10 guys. The day 2 class is average to above average but that’s damning with faint praise. It’s not a good OL draft from what I have seen so far.
Thats the gamelog for the 49ers game, not full season numbers. This is full season stats:
Thanks. Shows how much Robinson has fallen off as a runblocker, wonder if Jordan and Lowe are going to be locked in.
I don't actually know, but I suspect some of this is other team's defensive coaches now having some game film of the guy
He's getting bull rushed and more blitzes are coming to his gap, because teams saw him struggle with those in weeks 1 and 2. Trial by fire. In a world where we get to have nice things he and the Pats coaching staff use this to help him get better. And then he actually gets better.
Do we get to have nice things? tbd...
They took chances on big, physical, athletic, run blocking dudes who had mental issues and heavy feet and hands in pass pro (as Matt and I discussed last night and I think you heard on the Pats Pulpit pod this morning?) and they gambled they could coach it out. If it hits you look like a genius. I am going to be patient but I am skeptical. Always skeptical.
I think that Campbell will sneak into the top 10. Agreed that there's maybe 3 other guys that are first rounders.
I agree - it’s just he isn’t really the kind of OT you actually want to take in the top tier 10. Guy has short arms and it shows.
He does everything pretty well to my eyes, but agreed that the arms aren't elite. If we have #5, I'd take him and not think much about it.
I think there is an element of fools gold to his game. He is young so his anchor can improve but when he faces NFL bull rushers in college they generally beat him. He reminds me a little of Skoronski two years ago where he lacks length, he doesn't have great power, and his anchor is questionable. That's not generally what you want in a guard but it's also not what you look for in a tackle either. He faces some good edge rushers coming up so let's see what happens. Skoronski has been a disappointment at guard too so far in his career. It's a lot easier to put up blank stat sheets in college. His athleticism, recovery, and mental awareness are great. I have to see his 2024 tape against good competition before I make any final judgements. His youth is a huge plus but it also means he has a lot more growth to go too.
Maybe my PTSD from not having anyone with recovery ability is making me see more than is there, since now our guys have one punch and then fuck it and can't pick up any surprises whatsoever outside or inside.
I don't think that there are any all-pros in this draft but Campbell might be a guy who can start and be sound. Do you like anyone more? Banks?
I am not sure. I like Ersery a lot but he has technique issues in pass pro. I like Banks a lot but I am not sure if he is an OG or an OT and he has recovery and lateral issues in pass pro.
If I'm being a wide-eyed optimist, I could say that a line of Lowe-Jordan-Andrews-Leverett-Onwenu would have way better pass blocking grades than any unit we have played all season.
IIRC, Reiss said it was unlikely, but Bourne and TakiTaki seemed close to return
It’s been so disappointing that his weak base problem is exacerbated by the fact that base is apparently made from porcelain. Here’s hoping it’s been random injuries and he’s out C of the future.
He started every game his rookie season. He had 2 knee injuries last season, the latter and far more serious one late in the year. The ACL tear, as with most NFL injuries, was a random event (they are not forecastable in advance), but obviously there's no guarantee how the repaired knee will hamper him this season and going forward in his career.
Andrews needs shoulder surgery. If he gets it now he's done for the year. He may try to play through it but if it gets worse it could cost him 2025 too.
View: https://twitter.com/ByMarkDaniels/status/1841460860599869782
View: https://twitter.com/ByMarkDaniels/status/1841460860599869782
Let's hope not!
View: https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1841483912867938506
Pats are one of the worst OLs in football.
Edit: I made a meme about it.
Last edited:
I mean he really should. Or at least get the surgery and decide in the off-season. It's one thing to play through pain if the team has a chance. Not much incentive, and lots of risk, on this squad. I'm sure he could still contribute behind the scenes.
Rapsheet reporting he's going to have the surgery and go to IR.
View: https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1841490509606645863
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
#Patriots center and captain David Andrews is expected to have surgery to repair a significant shoulder injury and will likely be placed on season-ending Injured Reserve, sources say. One of the NFL’s toughest players, if Andrews could possibly go, he would. Brutal reality.
https://x.com/RapSheet/status/1841490509606645863/photo/1
View: https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1841490509606645863
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
#Patriots center and captain David Andrews is expected to have surgery to repair a significant shoulder injury and will likely be placed on season-ending Injured Reserve, sources say. One of the NFL’s toughest players, if Andrews could possibly go, he would. Brutal reality.
https://x.com/RapSheet/status/1841490509606645863/photo/1
In fairness to Sow, he was looking good in camp and had a promising rookie season. But he missed the whole season until last week, so we might want to let him play a week or so before rendering judgement.
Andrews a huge loss, means even if they get Lowe back they need someone to step up at C. Leverett was not great but not terrible. Strange sounds like he's not coming back for at least 3-4 more weeks....
I can almost hear the sound of Taps playing for the season…
Good news is he’ll come back to top pick LT, a hopefully healthy Strange, Onwenu back mauling people at guard and someone/anyone playing functional RT. Lord it’s tricky to find something positive as a pats fan at the moment.
View: https://twitter.com/ByMarkDaniels/status/1841532395331166387
Lazar on the Pats Unfiltered pod thinks Lowe is still a week or two away and Wallace will be out for 2-3 weeks so we're looking at:
Jacobs - Jordan - Hudson - Sow - Onwenu?
Jacobs - Sow - Hudson - Jordan - Onwenu?
Leverett as your backup C and backup IOL. I thought Leverett played well enough to get the start at C this week and maybe he does but it appears that he might not!
Lazar on the Pats Unfiltered pod thinks Lowe is still a week or two away and Wallace will be out for 2-3 weeks so we're looking at:
Jacobs - Jordan - Hudson - Sow - Onwenu?
Jacobs - Sow - Hudson - Jordan - Onwenu?
Leverett as your backup C and backup IOL. I thought Leverett played well enough to get the start at C this week and maybe he does but it appears that he might not!
