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Ed Hillel

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Need the Lakers to keep Westbrook AND signed Kyrie, please.

The bigger domino question now is what happens to Durant?
 

PedroKsBambino

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If you're the Nets, would you actually do Westbrook and the two picks the Lakers can deal for Kyrie? You can cap-wise if you add something in. But basetball-wise, you'd actually rather have Kyrie and I'm not certain you prefer Westbrook to simply letting Kyrie walk do you? Bad as that scenario is for Nets.
 

Jimbodandy

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If you're the Nets, would you actually do Westbrook and the two picks the Lakers can deal for Kyrie? You can cap-wise if you add something in. But basetball-wise, you'd actually rather have Kyrie and I'm not certain you prefer Westbrook to simply letting Kyrie walk do you? Bad as that scenario is for Nets.
No. I'd rather let him walk than have Westbrook at that salary even with two picks.

But Nets aren't hamstrung here. Teams will need the Nets help to bring Kyrie in. There will be better offers than Westbrook.
 

BigSoxFan

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No. I'd rather let him walk than have Westbrook at that salary even with two picks.

But Nets aren't hamstrung here. Teams will need the Nets help to bring Kyrie in. There will be better offers than Westbrook.
Only problem for Nets is that Kyrie likely flakes if he doesn’t get a location he wants.
 

JM3

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RW is just a (ridiculously expensive $47m) expiring now. If the Lakers make the picks unprotected & nothing else is on the table...
 

lovegtm

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RW is just a (ridiculously expensive $47m) expiring now. If the Lakers make the picks unprotected & nothing else is on the table...
Yeah, those would be some extremely tantalizing picks...and swaps?

The Lakers can top most offers if they do picks and swaps, just because of how bad people think they could get post-LBJ.
 
Jan 22, 2006
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RW is just a (ridiculously expensive $47m) expiring now. If the Lakers make the picks unprotected & nothing else is on the table...
Depending on the timing of the picks, they could be very tantalizing. Not hard to look 3-4 years in the future and see a Lakers team with nothing to keep them out of the basement of the NBA
 

lars10

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Yeah, those would be some extremely tantalizing picks...and swaps?

The Lakers can top most offers if they do picks and swaps, just because of how bad people think they could get post-LBJ.
Post LBJ? How about with him?
 
Jan 22, 2006
183
Need the Lakers to keep Westbrook AND signed Kyrie, please.

The bigger domino question now is what happens to Durant?
Feed this shit directly into my veins. I'm ready for another offseason of Kyrie/Durant/Brooklyn madness. Durant on this team would make me so, so happy.
 

NomarsFool

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I'm surprised. I didn't think Boston had been discussed as a likely destination for awhile now.
 

BigSoxFan

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I'm surprised. I didn't think Boston had been discussed as a likely destination for awhile now.
I think Brad will poke around here, especially if Tatum is supportive, which he almost surely would be. Celtics could make it work by attaching Smart or White to Horford along with the pick buffet. Would hard cap them but Beal is a guy you willingly take that arrangement.

I know trading Smart is sacrilegious in these parts but this is the type of deal I absolutely would part with him, if it’s available. Real downside with a Beal trade is it would hurt your D and financial flexibility. But you’d obviously be banking that the offensive improvement outweighs the defensive downgrade.
 
Jan 22, 2006
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I think Brad will poke around here, especially if Tatum is supportive, which he almost surely would be. Celtics could make it work by attaching Smart or White to Horford along with the pick buffet. Would hard cap them but Beal is a guy you willingly take that arrangement.

I know trading Smart is sacrilegious in these parts but this is the type of deal I absolutely would part with him, if it’s available. Real downside with a Beal trade is it would hurt your D and financial flexibility. But you’d obviously be banking that the offensive improvement outweighs the defensive downgrade.
I have a lot of respect for Beal, but a trade like this feels like it would put us where we were prior to last season: with an undersized, expensive, older PG with some injury risk that impacts your defensive dominance. The hypothesis would remain the same (space the floor, give the Jays some breathing room, go with a big 3) and the risks would be exactly the same as well.
 

radsoxfan

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Lot of unknown with Beal given the recent injury/slump and generally being on such bad teams. He’s also older than I would have thought initially (older than Smart).

If forced to guess, I don’t think he’s any better than Smart overall as a player the next few seasons.

I wouldn’t be interested to trading Smart and assets for the right to overpay Beal on a Max deal.
 

lovegtm

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I think Brad will poke around here, especially if Tatum is supportive, which he almost surely would be. Celtics could make it work by attaching Smart or White to Horford along with the pick buffet. Would hard cap them but Beal is a guy you willingly take that arrangement.

I know trading Smart is sacrilegious in these parts but this is the type of deal I absolutely would part with him, if it’s available. Real downside with a Beal trade is it would hurt your D and financial flexibility. But you’d obviously be banking that the offensive improvement outweighs the defensive downgrade.
If Beal really wants a deal, he could opt in, in which case the Celtics wouldn't be hardcapped. Big financial risk for him obv.
 

RorschachsMask

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I get why some don’t love the idea of Beal, but I think he’s a GREAT fit for the offense. Obviously he’s a poor defender, but he has length, and I think if he was coming here, he knows he’d have to exert more effort on that end.

He’s a very good passer for a 2, he is constantly moving off ball, and he’s one of the best cutters in the league. Was in the 98th percentile last season on scoring efficiency on cuts. People talk about what he’d do for Tatum, but I think he’d have a huge impact on Jaylen.

JB has proven he’s a championship level number 2, but he’s not the type who will be able to carry lineups by himself. For the last three years, we’ve fallen off a cliff when Tatum sits. This past (feels weird saying that) season, when Tatum sat our net rating was -4.4. This postseason, when Tatum sat, our net rating was -7.3. But you add Beal to this, and have him out there taking a ton of pressure off on Jaylen? I guarantee you that we’d be much better when Tatum sits, which in turn will allow him to get more rest.

Beal also has been very vocal the past couple of months about Boston and Tatum.

View: https://twitter.com/ChrisForsberg_/status/1515317292363567111?s=20&t=9AeP2XaLfJawpwS3WdlaaQ

View: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1535018281312038913?s=20&t=6nK2ixeT3aPHDEvMQyRA0g
 

lovegtm

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I get why some don’t love the idea of Beal, but I think he’s a GREAT fit for the offense. Obviously he’s a poor defender, but he has length, and I think if he was coming here, he knows he’d have to exert more effort on that end.

He’s a very good passer for a 2, he is constantly moving off ball, and he’s one of the best cutters in the league. Was in the 98th percentile last season on scoring efficiency on cuts. People talk about what he’d do for Tatum, but I think he’d have a huge impact on Jaylen.

JB has proven he’s a championship level number 2, but he’s not the type who will be able to carry lineups by himself. For the last three years, we’ve fallen off a cliff when Tatum sits. This past (feels weird saying that) season, when Tatum sat our net rating was -4.4. This postseason, when Tatum sat, our net rating was -7.3. But you add Beal to this, and have him out there taking a ton of pressure off on Jaylen? I guarantee you that we’d be much better when Tatum sits, which in turn will allow him to get more rest.

Beal also has been very vocal the past couple of months about Boston and Tatum.

View: https://twitter.com/ChrisForsberg_/status/1515317292363567111?s=20&t=9AeP2XaLfJawpwS3WdlaaQ

View: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1535018281312038913?s=20&t=6nK2ixeT3aPHDEvMQyRA0g
This is where I'm at. Beal is a perfect fit offensively, and can probably add defensive effort with less load. The Celtics are favorites in the East if that deal gets done imo.
 

BigSoxFan

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I have a lot of respect for Beal, but a trade like this feels like it would put us where we were prior to last season: with an undersized, expensive, older PG with some injury risk that impacts your defensive dominance. The hypothesis would remain the same (space the floor, give the Jays some breathing room, go with a big 3) and the risks would be exactly the same as well.
Beal is 6’3 and is 28 years-old. I get the concerns about his defense but if you can get him without giving up Smart, why wouldn’t we do this?

I just watched the Celtics score 94 and 90 points to get eliminated in the Finals. More scoring is needed. Where that offense comes is obviously TBD.
 

RorschachsMask

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This is where I'm at. Beal is a perfect fit offensively, and can probably add defensive effort with less load. The Celtics are favorites in the East if that deal gets done imo.
There’s options too, for the Celtics. Can do the Al package, though I think that’s less likely now. People mentioned Smart, but White/Theis/Nesmith/salary filler/picks does the trick as well, IIRC.
 

BigSoxFan

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There’s options too, for the Celtics. Can do the Al package, though I think that’s less likely now. People mentioned Smart, but White/Theis/Nesmith/salary filler/picks does the trick as well, IIRC.
If they could get Beal without giving up Smart, that would be the biggest offseason home run in quite some time. I would be all over a deal like the above but it would obviously take Beal putting his thumb on the scale.
 

RorschachsMask

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If they could get Beal without giving up Smart, that would be the biggest offseason home run in quite some time. I would be all over a deal like the above but it would obviously take Beal putting his thumb on the scale.
Yeah the only way we get Beal, is if he makes clear to the Wizards that he only wants to come here. And they will work with him, as the teams always do in these scenarios. Because of that, it’s not going to be some bidding war, Beal completely controls where he will end up.

I’d still bet on him staying, but it’s getting harder not to get invested lol.
 

BigSoxFan

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Yeah the only way we get Beal, is if he makes clear to the Wizards that he only wants to come here. And they will work with him, as the teams always do in these scenarios. Because of that, it’s not going to be some bidding war, Beal completely controls where he will end up.

I’d still bet on him staying, but it’s getting harder not to get invested lol.
You have to wonder if seeing his BFF get so close to a title may have impacted his thought process a bit. He gets a boat load of cash either way so maybe the idea of playing meaningful hoops with his buddy for the balance of his prime is attractive. Or, maybe he just wants to collect every last dollar of his earning potential. I guess we’ll see soon enough.

But I think he is really the only major realistic option. All the other plans likely involve running it back and plucking another hopeful rotation piece with the TPE.
 

Marciano490

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The Beals are like the Gronks and the Joneses - all his brothers play or played college football and he had a 4.0 gpa. Plus Nelly used to walk him to school. Seems like a great guy to have onboard.
 

kazuneko

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There’s options too, for the Celtics. Can do the Al package, though I think that’s less likely now. People mentioned Smart, but White/Theis/Nesmith/salary filler/picks does the trick as well, IIRC.
Smart and White have pretty similar salaries, so it would seem like anything that would work with Smart might also work with White. But it is it really possible to pull off a Beal trade without dealing Horford? Beal would be signing a very lucrative contract...
 

chilidawg

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I'd swap Beal for Smart +, but losing Al would be a gut punch to this team. Means so much on both ends of the floor, not to mention we'd be incredibly thin up front. And please don't get going on the "fungible bigs" .
 

BigSoxFan

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I'd swap Beal for Smart +, but losing Al would be a gut punch to this team. Means so much on both ends of the floor, not to mention we'd be incredibly thin up front. And please don't get going on the "fungible bigs" .
Horford just turned 36. What are the odds we see May-June 2022 Horford in May-June 2023? Totally agree on the impact but the Finals version of Horford that was off and on is probably more representative of what we’ll see going forward.

I would definitely be concerned about the big situation if Horford were dealt but the hope would be that the trade off for a younger star would be worth it.
 

NomarsFool

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What happened to Beal's 3P shooting last season? Volume went down by about an attempt per game, not a big deal, but % plummeted to 30%.

With regards to Horford, he was a huge part of their early playoff success - but I have no illusions he's repeating that next season. Regardless of Beal, the C's need to beef up the frontcourt somehow this offseason, I think.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I’m fairly bullish on star-level players with iffy defensive reputations being at least average on that end if they are walking into the right environment and are physically capable (and aren’t Kyrie-level spacemen).

Ray had some great defensive moments here, somewhat surprisingly. That is the Beal comp imo, but depends what you give up in terms of maintaining the defensive integrity.

There are lesser moves that maintain and expand our defensive prowess and improve our depth. I assume that is plan A given how close they just came.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'm very down on Beal being able to do what the guards are asked to do in this defense, and I don't think he's as good an offensive fit as people think, his assist numbers are pretty good, but he gets them in a very ball dominating way, he isn't a guy who moves it quick.
Another underrated thing.... he hasn't been a good 3pt shooter in like 4+ years, now maybe he has gravity, but.... not so sure he has actual makes.

Beal seems like a move to me that doesn't make much sense, you're playing max money to an aging guy who got the numbers to get a max deal by doing a lot of things you don't want him to do for you, and who doesn't do a lot of the things you most need. I just don't see the reason to pay that money (which means cuts long term, Wyc isn't Lacob or Balmer, he'll pay tax, he won't pay $100M a year in tax) for a guy that is an okay but not great fit. I'd honestly rather have someone who is a no doubt sniper from 3 and moves the ball Spurs' style, or a long term replacement for Al as the 3 and D big.
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
Kenny Atkinson "changed his mind" per Woj about joining the Hornets as their Head Coach and "decided to stay with the Warriors." What the heck? He was fired because of KD an Kyrie. What other position is out there he would be going for? Or does he really like being the number 3 on the Warriors staff? That had to make MJ mad...
 

chilidawg

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Horford just turned 36. What are the odds we see May-June 2022 Horford in May-June 2023? Totally agree on the impact but the Finals version of Horford that was off and on is probably more representative of what we’ll see going forward.

I would definitely be concerned about the big situation if Horford were dealt but the hope would be that the trade off for a younger star would be worth it.
I'd say the odds are pretty good Al has a couple more high level years. Everyone on the team had a finals performance that might not be indicative of their futures.
 

bosockboy

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Kenny Atkinson "changed his mind" per Woj about joining the Hornets as their Head Coach and "decided to stay with the Warriors." What the heck? He was fired because of KD an Kyrie. What other position is out there he would be going for? Or does he really like being the number 3 on the Warriors staff? That had to make MJ mad...
Mike Brown left so he’s #2. And might have been promised to be Kerr’s successor.
 

BigSoxFan

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I'd say the odds are pretty good Al has a couple more high level years. Everyone on the team had a finals performance that might not be indicative of their futures.
Tatum is 24. Horford turns 37 next June. Their situations are completely different. I wasn’t drawing any conclusions about the rest of the team so not sure why your last point is relevant to this discussion.

The list of “high level” years for 37-38 year-old big men is a very short one. Al may age similar to Duncan but he was clearly worn down after a grueling playoffs. That wear and tear only gets more pronounced as he ages.
 

ElUno20

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What happened to Beal's 3P shooting last season? Volume went down by about an attempt per game, not a big deal, but % plummeted to 30%.

With regards to Horford, he was a huge part of their early playoff success - but I have no illusions he's repeating that next season. Regardless of Beal, the C's need to beef up the frontcourt somehow this offseason, I think.
He had a legitimate wrist injury that i think he ended up having surgery for
 

kazuneko

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I'd say the odds are pretty good Al has a couple more high level years. Everyone on the team had a finals performance that might not be indicative of their futures.
The big problem with a Horford for Beal trade is the dramatic effect on the defense that would have. Al is still one of the better defensive players in the league and Beal is generally seen as one of the worst. This would also make the team much shorter, as - presumably- this would shift Tatum to PF and Brown to SF.
 

Cellar-Door

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The big problem with a Horford for Beal trade is the dramatic effect on the defense that would have. Al is still one of the better defensive players in the league and Beal is generally seen as one of the worst. This would also make the team much shorter, as - presumably- this would shift Tatum to PF and Brown to SF.
Yeah I mentioned it in another thread but basically adding Beal pushes 3 players into roles they are worse at than the role they are in now (Brown, Tatum, TL).
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Devizier

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I just had a nightmare 2 for 2 trade scenario with BRK and LAL pop up in my head. I can even reason myself into it (for BRK, LAL would take it without hesitation).
 

ElUno20

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For my clipps (already having kawhi in the alberto pujos angels stage of his career), please no Kyrie. Please no
 

JM3

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So much of the Beal thing will come down to how much of his play is situation-based & projecting him onto a real NBA team. Up until last year, he was a pretty efficient scorer even at reduced 3p shooting levels.

He has a 6'8 wingspan & there's no reason he shouldn't be able to fill in some gaps really nicely... but at some point you're getting to dangerous levels of projecting.

If Tatum wants it, though, & he wants to come, you make it happen & hope for the best. I'd feel better about any Horford package if Gafford comes back. & Gafford only makes $1.8m so he fits in almost any construction.

Beal can opt out & be a free agent so it's not like the Wizards have a ton of leverage... like they did when the rumors of trading him started 3 years ago.
 

Cellar-Door

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So much of the Beal thing will come down to how much of his play is situation-based & projecting him onto a real NBA team. Up until last year, he was a pretty efficient scorer even at reduced 3p shooting levels.

He has a 6'8 wingspan & there's no reason he shouldn't be able to fill in some gaps really nicely... but at some point you're getting to dangerous levels of projecting.

If Tatum wants it, though, & he wants to come, you make it happen & hope for the best. I'd feel better about any Horford package if Gafford comes back. & Gafford only makes $1.8m so he fits in almost any construction.

Beal can opt out & be a free agent so it's not like the Wizards have a ton of leverage... like they did when the rumors of trading him started 3 years ago.
I think to be honest that Beal to the Celtics has basically no chance of happening this summer. He's not opting in, he's opting out, which makes trading for him basically impossible in the summer. It would have to be at the deadline or next summer to really make sense. Even then I doubt it. Beal to Boston is mostly just a "he's best friends with Tatum" play, his fit is not that good, but more importantly, getting him here is REALLY tough under the cap unless he does something no other star has ever done, and I really doubt he does that coming off not only an injury but also his worst season ever. Lot can go wrong, and players like Beal know it.
 
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