Offseason Rumors/News

djbayko

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I absolutely hate this deal for Minnesota. I live in MN and watch a lot of T wolves. They were in the play in game this year after a long playoff drought. It's not like these picks (any of them) are guaranteed to not be lottery picks. I just don't think Gobert moves the needle for them at all and it sounds like Utah players hated him. There were far better ways to use that draft capital
I’m not so sure. I can see Gobert being a very polarizing “superstar” player for prospective trade partners. It’s possible that the Nets wouldn’t want him as a return to build around. Especially if Minnesota is out there valuing Gobert like they did.
 

E5 Yaz

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I wouldn’t be surprised to see a 3-way deal between Utah/Phoenix/Brooklyn with this as the foundation:

Phx: Durant
Utah: Ayton
BKN: Mitchell
I heard this one discussed on NBA Radio yesterday. The hosts basically decided that this one seemed more likely in concept than in reality, because of the amount of needed moving parts
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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So later Windhorst mentioned that Danny got rid of Mitchell’s good friends on the team the past few days and intimated they were going to deal Mitchell as well. Other reporters say that Danny wants to keep Mitchell and build around him, but ultimately, that’s likely Mitchell’s choice.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see a 3-way deal between Utah/Phoenix/Brooklyn with this as the foundation:

Phx: Durant
Utah: Ayton
BKN: Mitchell
I think BRK would have to get rid of Simmons since Mitchell is on a designated rookie extensions (same issue with Bam).

https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/kevin-durant-trade-rumors-nets-nba-free-agency
 

lovegtm

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I like this version, with Mitchell staying in UTA:

PHX trades Deandre Ayton to UTA for Bojan Bogdanovic and 2023 1st rd pick received from BRK
PHX trades Bogdanovic, Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, 2 PHX 1st rd picks and BRK's 2023 1st rd pick to BRK (via UTA and PHX) for Kevin Durant

UTA roster (post-trade):

PG Mike Conley, Pat Beverley, Jordan Clarkson
SG Donovan Mitchell, Malik Beasley, Nickeil Alexander-Walker, Leandro Bolmaro
SF Rudy Gay, Danuel House, Jr. (if re-signed)
PF Eric Paschall (if re-signed), Jarred Vanderbilt
C - Deandre Ayton, Walker Kessler, Udoka Azubuike

That's a lot of guards for Danny to trade in order to rebalance his roster.
This can be done as a non 3-teamer as well. Utah just executes that or a similar S&T for Ayton, and then Phoenix figures out its Durant offer separately. The one there feels light, although swaps might get them close.

Brooklyn still has a decent team in those scenarios, particularly if they can get a return for Kyrie somewhere.
 

JM3

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Jazz need to trade everything, turn the team over to Jared Butler & valiantly lose for Victor.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I don't hate the trade for Minnesota, but a lot of it will depend on if Gobert and Towns can co exist. If they can and Edwards continues to improve, they should be a very good basketball team. They have limited assets to improve but their biggest improvement should come internally from Edwards. I don't see this ending up a total disaster as long as KAT and Edwards stay healthy and the latter continues to improve. Sometimes trades look bad on paper but talent ends up winning out.

With that said, the play in game changes things a little bit re non protected picks. Nowadays, you can be the 7th seed and finish in the lottery. The 7th seed this year won 44 (Cavs) and 46 (Wolves). In 18/19, the 7th seed out west won 48. In 17/18, 47.

In 2014/15, the 7th seed out west had 50 wins (Mavs). In a weird season, it's possible the Wolves could go 50-32, lose 2 play in games and win the lottery. That's the difference between "not hating" the trade and "liking" the trade for me. Besides that, there's a real chance the Wolves could win 44-46 games and still miss the playoffs. If the Jazz get a late lottery pick or even 2 late lottery picks out of this trade, it's not that big a deal but with the lottery, there's always that chance they land a top 4.

The same can be said for the C's and their pick swap. You don't have to be an awful team to end up in the lottery anymore. You can say this about any of the huge pick swap deals, really. The teams trading for pick packages now have a much better chance of landing a top 4 pick and/or lottery pick than they did a few years ago. I think that's a good thing, actually. The Spurs can always hope the C's go 45-37 and lose 2 play in games. Before, they'd have to hope the C's would go 38-44 and miss the playoffs completely.
 
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JM3

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Are the odds actually changed much at all? If a talented team underperforms to the 7 seed, they're still likely to win 1 of 2 home games, & in the case of injuries earlier in the season or whatever & they slip to the 9 or 10, they still have a chance to bail themselves out & get in anyway.

& even then, the Cavs only had a 2.41% chance at a top 4 pick this year.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Are the odds actually changed much at all? If a talented team underperforms to the 7 seed, they're still likely to win 1 of 2 home games, & in the case of injuries earlier in the season or whatever & they slip to the 9 or 10, they still have a chance to bail themselves out & get in anyway.

& even then, the Cavs only had a 2.41% chance at a top 4 pick this year.
Right, but before they would have had 0% and ended with the 16th pick. And if both 7 seeds lost, it's possible they end up with a 4.8% chance at a top 4 pick.

Or there's the scenario that the 2 play in losers in the East lost and both had a better record. That puts them at 7.1%.

These were all scenarios that were never in play before.
 

JM3

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Right, but before they would have had 0% and ended with the 16th pick. And if both 7 seeds lost, it's possible they end up with a 4.8% chance at a top 4 pick.

Or there's the scenario that the 2 play in losers in the East lost and both had a better record. That puts them at 7.1%.

These were all scenarios that were never in play before.
Right, but the converse is they would have been the 9 or 10 seed & now make the playoffs & their chances go from 7.1% to 0%, & I don't think there's a huge difference, especially with a franchise like Minnesota, between those 2 possibilities.
 

Tony C

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Aw shucks, thanks. That song is basically on a constant tape loop in the back of my brain, both from being a kid of the ‘70s and cos one of my most rewatched YouTube vids ever is the amazing, sun-drenched performance of that at Oakland Coliseum in summer of ‘77 (not even a big Skynyrd fan, but the ‘70s nostalgia is irresistible) View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QxIWDmmqZzY
nostalgia indeed -- that was a Richard Linklater movie. Would love a time machine...
 

Cesar Crespo

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I was looking at Myles Turner out of curiosity and he's on the final year of his deal. 1/17.5. Almost fits into the TPE, but not quite. Not that that would happen anyway.

Would Phoenix rather have Turner and filler than nothing for Ayton? Pacers could give Ayton the money he wants.

Could the Pacers re-sign Warren and throw him into the deal to make up the difference between Turner and Ayton?

Haliburton/Ayton is a start. Suns do it because they need someone to replace Ayton and Warren could be a big get.
 

ElUno20

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Arent they both expiring? What's the incentive for BK? Some 2055 draft pick?
 

JM3

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Arent they both expiring? What's the incentive for BK? Some 2055 draft pick?
Lakers have 2 1sts they can trade & a swap or 2 available. Unprotected future Laker picks are more valuable than a disgruntled Kyrie & no one else is going to take him with his heart set on the Lakers.

RW/Simmons lineups...yikes.
 

E5 Yaz

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Sean Marks should be shot into the sun if they do anything resembling the trades discussed in this article. The LAKERS want them to add Curry to sweeten the pot?? What am I reading??
Nets should say, "No, you want to get rid of your guy more than we want to get rid of ours"
 

PedroKsBambino

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Lakers of course want that deal—-and Marks is smart enough to know they will ultimately throw in 1-2 picks to get there.
 

Cellar-Door

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Haynes works for Klutch. Take his reports with a grain of salt.
yeah, though I think he's probably generally right on both fronts...
1. Nets say... sure we'll take Russ and Picks if you eat Joe Harris' deal
2. Lakers say... we'll add the picks but we want Curry.

#1 might happen, #2 won't unless it's all the Lakers' available picks and swaps and they maybe add some other sweetner (they don't have much)
 

JM3

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Lakers picks they could trade...

2023 - The Lakers could reswap the worse of their pick & the Pels pick in '23 which is not much of an asset. They also have their own 2nd & the Bulls 2nd

2024 - Worst of Grizz/Wiz 2nds (Pels can take the Lakers 1st pick in '24 or wait until '25)

2025 - Have own 2nd

2026 - Have own 1st but can't trade it because Stepien Rule & the potential of Pels taking the '25 1st.

2027 - Have own 1st & 2nd, can trade.

2028 - Have own 1st but can't trade with '27. Have worst of own 2nd & Wiz 2nd.

2029 - Have own 1st & 2nd.

2030 - Not eligible for trade, yet.

So the Lakers could offer...

* '27 & '29 1sts
* 7 2nds
* '23 reswap, swap in whichever of '24 or '25 the Pels don't take the pick, '26 swap, '28 swap

RW makes $10.5m more than Kyrie & both are on expiring deals.

I would 100% take ALL those draft assets from the Lakers with RW for Kyrie + Seth, so it's really just a matter of how much of that is on the table, with what protections, to determine whether Seth is the appropriate salary-matching piece.
 

radsoxfan

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Obviously the Lakers are desperate, not a title team as currently constructed, and would love to swap RWB for Kyrie. It may or may not work but at least gives them an upside possibility.

I doubt the Nets are interested in giving Kyrie what he wants, but at the same time, the Lakers may be the only interested team. If option 2 is paying him to stay home or a buyout, I doubt they are too excited about that. Better to get some picks and at least RWB is expiring/plays hard.

Almost feels inevitable at this point... I just hope the Lakers have to pony up.
 

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the moops

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We all like to joke, but a Kyrie, Lebron, AD trio is the best trio intl the league. They may be hurt a lot and insufferable but they would be a joyto watch play basketball when all healthy.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Are you obligated to honor trade requests? I'd rather watch the dude rot on the bench than give him the satisfaction of reuniting with the best player ever(albeit the old version).
 

radsoxfan

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We all like to joke, but a Kyrie, Lebron, AD trio is the best trio intl the league. They may be hurt a lot and insufferable but they would be a joyto watch play basketball when all healthy.
Injuries and insanity aside, Kyrie is overrated on the court, AD has regressed, and Lebron is going to be 38 next season.

Not sure I would put them as the best trio in the league, though Kyrie is a clear upgrade on RWB and makes them better.
 

radsoxfan

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Are you obligated to honor trade requests? I'd rather watch the dude rot on the bench than give him the satisfaction of reuniting with the best player ever(albeit the old version).
Of course not, they could just pay him to stay home.

But as much as I'm sure they despise Kyrie, if they can get a couple future picks from the Lakers it's pretty shortsighted to refuse to trade him.
 

radsoxfan

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Best at what?
I don't think perception has caught up to reality with respect to AD. He has regressed big time on the court. Plus Kyrie has always been a negative on D so his overall on court value isn't what many people think.

Certainly I can see the argument that AD's ceiling is higher than a generic player at his current level, but right now he and Kyrie are both just "good" players. 37-38 year old Lebron would still be BY FAR their best player.
 

radsoxfan

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Why would the Nets do this before figuring out KD?

The Lakers will always be desperate and it seems like the Nets would have more options for matching purposes by holding off on a Kyrie trade.
 

Cellar-Door

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Why would the Nets do this before figuring out KD?

The Lakers will always be desperate and it seems like the Nets would have more options for matching purposes by holding off on a Kyrie trade.
I'm sure they are doing both at once.
As was mentioned on last week's Zach Lowe podcast, most teams have like 30+ conversations going on at once about possible moves.
 

radsoxfan

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I'm sure they are doing both at once.
As was mentioned on last week's Zach Lowe podcast, most teams have like 30+ conversations going on at once about possible moves.
I presume as well.

Guess we'll see what happens but just making the point that committing to the Kyrie trade before doing the KD trade would be dumb.
 

BigMike

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Lakers have 2 1sts they can trade & a swap or 2 available. Unprotected future Laker picks are more valuable than a disgruntled Kyrie & no one else is going to take him with his heart set on the Lakers.

RW/Simmons lineups...yikes.
Kyrie is a better player than Westbrook, not gonna argue that. But Russ is much better person and teammate. And basically Russ goes out and buts it every night. He played 78 last year.

Westbrook and Simmons on the same court is gonna kill you from the outside, although everyone else on the court had better be ready at all times because both are elite passers. Ad at least Russ can penetrate and score

I don't blame Russ that much for last year, he was arguable the worst possible fit for that team. Lakers couldn't have managed that draft night worse last year. Hield was perfect for their needs, and they had the deal done, until some genius decided Russ would make it a big 3, and you need a big 3. Obviously with Ad's injury last year may have been a disaster regardless,

But yeah they Lakers need to add a couple #1 in the deal, just because.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Potential Pacific Division ‘22-23

LeBron + AD + Kyrie Lakers
Durant + CP3 + Booker Suns
Kawhi + PG + Wall Clippers
World Champion Warriors

Kings seem much improved, too, but it could be a rough year to try to show it…
 

radsoxfan

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Potential Pacific Division ‘22-23

LeBron + AD + Kyrie Lakers
Durant + CP3 + Booker Suns
Kawhi + PG + Wall Clippers
World Champion Warriors

Kings seem much improved, too, but it could be a rough year to try to show it…
One of these things is not like the other.....

The artist formally known as John Wall?
 

Sam Ray Not

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One of these things is not like the other.....

The artist formally known as John Wall?
Hah, yeah, threw him in for a third name brand, even though he may only be the 10th-12th best player on that team. It’s really Kawhi + PG + an extremely deep roster.

Fwiw, I thought letting Hartenstein walk to give the full TMLE to Wall was pretty dumb.
 

Cellar-Door

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I presume as well.

Guess we'll see what happens but just making the point that committing to the Kyrie trade before doing the KD trade would be dumb.
Kyrie's market is a lot smaller. I think you get what you can for him. Some case that you might want to do it first because if you can extract more value by taking on something you don't want, you can then staple it to KD and given that you won't get full value for KD and have a lot of suitors you don't have to pay to dump it.
 

TripleOT

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The Clippers should make an offer: Kyrie and Seth Curry for Mook Morris, Kennard, and Reggie Jackson, plus a pick
 

radsoxfan

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Kyrie's market is a lot smaller. I think you get what you can for him. Some case that you might want to do it first because if you can extract more value by taking on something you don't want, you can then staple it to KD and given that you won't get full value for KD and have a lot of suitors you don't have to pay to dump it.
You can of course technically do the Kyrie trade first if it's beneficial for an already set up Durant trade.

But the Lakers are desperate and no one else is taking Westbrook off their hands. I don't see the point of completing a Kyrie trade without knowing the Durant plan. You never know what Durant trade might be better facilitated by having more players as options to include.
 

lovegtm

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We all like to joke, but a Kyrie, Lebron, AD trio is the best trio intl the league. They may be hurt a lot and insufferable but they would be a joyto watch play basketball when all healthy.
When aging/oft-injured players are involved, these things can go south much faster than you'd think.

This has strong "Now THIS Is Going to Be Fun" Lakers vibes, although the players involved are certainly better.
 

lovegtm

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