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benhogan

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Probably not. But watching the Pacers tie up max space in yet another C when they're pretty much never worth that kind of money is hilarious. (There are a couple of exceptions, but it's incredibly unlikely that Ayton turns out to be one of them.)

Even if Phoenix is uninterested in Durant they simply match the offer, run it back for a year, and trade Ayton next summer.
right?

I get Indy needs to spend $$$, but haven't they run a few 4A Centers through the program already
 

PedroKsBambino

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So that means no sign and trade---interesting. Wonder if they have a Turner deal in the unlikely (but not impossible) scenario Phoenix just lets him walk
 

benhogan

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Watching SL and the announcers going on how disrespected Ayton must feel...

only in the NBA can a 24yr old get guaranteed $133M and be unhappy
 

PedroKsBambino

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Wonder what was going on behind this one....

- Ayton just wanted out and tried his best to get out
- Phoenix and Ayton deadlocked on contract and Phoenix got his value 'market tested' while avoiding the 5th year
- There were Indy-Phoenix sign and trade negotiations that fell apart
- There was some connection to a KD deal that eventually Indy got tired of waiting out

Agree it's one of the dumbest games of chicken ever. I guess if you're Indy it's a rare shot at a tier-1 free agent, but never likely it would actually come together for them
 

ifmanis5

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View: https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1547658291580264449

Phoenix has until Saturday night at 11:59PM ET. to match the largest offer sheet in NBA history.
The contract is binding and a sign-and-trade cannot be completed.
If Phoenix matches, Ayton has veto power on any trade after Jan. 15. He cannot be traded to Indiana.

View: https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1547737267870961665

Cap space in Indiana is now frozen. Either they will be at the cap or have $31M+ in room after the 2 days elapse. Matching the offer sheet puts Phoenix in the tax with a projected $32M penalty. A cost of $62M this season to keep Ayton.
 

E5 Yaz

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View: https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1547658291580264449

Phoenix has until Saturday night at 11:59PM ET. to match the largest offer sheet in NBA history.
The contract is binding and a sign-and-trade cannot be completed.
If Phoenix matches, Ayton has veto power on any trade after Jan. 15. He cannot be traded to Indiana.

View: https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1547737267870961665

Cap space in Indiana is now frozen. Either they will be at the cap or have $31M+ in room after the 2 days elapse. Matching the offer sheet puts Phoenix in the tax with a projected $32M penalty. A cost of $62M this season to keep Ayton.
They already matched
 

benhogan

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View: https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1547658291580264449

Phoenix has until Saturday night at 11:59PM ET. to match the largest offer sheet in NBA history.
The contract is binding and a sign-and-trade cannot be completed.
If Phoenix matches, Ayton has veto power on any trade after Jan. 15. He cannot be traded to Indiana.

View: https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1547737267870961665

Cap space in Indiana is now frozen. Either they will be at the cap or have $31M+ in room after the 2 days elapse. Matching the offer sheet puts Phoenix in the tax with a projected $32M penalty. A cost of $62M this season to keep Ayton.
the classic lose-lose scenario is played out...

I got this thing wrong 6 different ways over the last few months.

Kudos to those who saw Sarver matching a MAX deal and paying a sizeable tax bill
 

nighthob

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the classic lose-lose scenario is played out...

I got this thing wrong 6 different ways over the last few months.

Kudos to those who saw Sarver matching a MAX deal and paying a sizeable tax bill
Sarver's cheap, not stupid. And certainly not S-T-OO-OO-PID stupid. If Indiana had made a reasonable offer you can bet that Ayton would be a Pacer. That he is going to spend the season in Phoenix is proof that Pritchard's offer was Turner & Hield for Ayton and some first round picks.
 

amfox1

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Ayton cannot be traded at all before Jan 15. He has veto rights after Jan 15 until next July. He cannot be traded to Indiana before next July under any circumstances.

PHX could have just extended Ayton during the season and then traded him (including in a KD trade). Not well-played.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Well a Durant trade to Phoenix, if it happens, may have to be done more creatively. Perhaps this opens up the door for multiple teams to get involved so KD can just do him and chill in the desert.

As a side note - it really feels like the NBA is the best 24/7 365 league right now. Trades, signings and soap operas each day!
 

djbayko

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If they find a situation that Ayton wants. He has veto rights over any trades this season. But next summer they'll trade him to a team with appropriate cap space.
While that's true, don't they mutually want to separate? That situation was not good at all by the end of the season. I suppose cooler heads could prevail as time passes.
 

nighthob

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While that's true, don't they mutually want to separate? That situation was not good at all by the end of the season.
Yes, and again, had Indiana made a reasonable offer Ayton would be there now. Phoenix didn't want to commit max money to Ayton, because while he's a good center, center's have very low positional value, but they'll do it for a year and then move him next summer. Ayton wants out, and getting out requires him being a good soldier this year (tanking his trade value does nothing for him), so the divorce will finalize the first chance they get.
 

djbayko

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Yes, and again, had Indiana made a reasonable offer Ayton would be there now. Phoenix didn't want to commit max money to Ayton, because while he's a good center, center's have very low positional value, but they'll do it for a year and then move him next summer. Ayton wants out, and getting out requires him being a good soldier this year (tanking his trade value does nothing for him), so the divorce will finalize the first chance they get.
Oh, I just noticed the Jan 15th date a couple posts up. I wouldn't have replied had I known.
 

lusky

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Hoping it's wrong but heard a rumor today Jaylen is unhappy. It went so far as to a three way deal possible withus getting donovan, KD going to utah and jaylen going to nets. Please someone throw water on this or make it happen without other of our pieces moving
there has to be other moving parts obviously
 

E5 Yaz

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Hoping it's wrong but heard a rumor today Jaylen is unhappy. It went so far as to a three way deal possible withus getting donovan, KD going to utah and jaylen going to nets. Please someone throw water on this or make it happen without other of our pieces moving
there has to be other moving parts obviously
Heard from where
 

TripleOT

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I wonder how motivated Ayton is going to be now that he secured the bag. I also wonder what the trade market is going to be next summer for a center with three years and $100 million left on his contract, especially if he sleepwalks through the season, (assuming Ayton vetoes a post January 15 in season trade).

It’s time for the parties in Phoenix to get together and have a kumbaya moment. Nothing personal Deandre, we love you and you are our big man of the future.
 

JM3

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lovegtm

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I wonder how motivated Ayton is going to be now that he secured the bag. I also wonder what the trade market is going to be next summer for a center with three years and $100 million left on his contract, especially if he sleepwalks through the season, (assuming Ayton vetoes a post January 15 in season trade).

It’s time for the parties in Phoenix to get together and have a kumbaya moment. Nothing personal Deandre, we love you and you are our big man of the future.
I doubt he vetoes a trade, except out of pure spite to force Sarver to pay tax. He wants to get to a new situation as quickly as possible too.
 

The Raccoon

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He wants to get to a new situation as quickly as possible too.
Unless there are multiple offers and he has different preferences than the Suns. And if he blocks a trade to all but Team A or B while Phoenix only wants to trade him to Team C or D... it's another round of NBA chicken.
 

Justthetippett

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Bobby Marks - clearly lower than me on Donovan Mitchell - or has placed less protections on his hypothetical 1sts. Based on past history probably the 2nd thing.
These Mitchell talks are pretty Ainge-ian. Go big, rile up the media, potentially piss off your star player and put the other team in the position of looking foolish. Pretty clear why teams might prefer to deal with Stevens.
 

Auger34

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In other news, you'll be shocked to hear what Bobby Marks thinks would be a reasonable Knicks-Jazz trade.

View: https://twitter.com/KennyDucey/status/1547668096638275584
That’s funny because I have the opposite reaction to that trade. If that’s the offer for that gets accepted I think the Knicks are elated,

Their top young assets are:
RJ
Quickley
Mitchell Robinson
Grimes/Toppin.

As Cellar Door pointed out upturead that “7 or 8” 1sts is really 4 or 5.

I just don’t think the Knicks get this done with all of the 1sts and swaps plus two of Quickley/Grimes/Robinson or Bartettt and 3 or 4 1sts
 

Jimbodandy

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The linked story is hilarious. The idea that Jaylen Brown would reveal his plans to Jermaine Wiggins at a party in the Hamptons, and then give Wiggins permission to air it on WEEI is completely absurd.
Always grateful to Wiggy for some big catches, but pretty much every post that starts with "I just heard on the radio..." should be spam filtered.
 

Cellar-Door

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Tony Jones said a source told him that Danny's ask was:
6 of the 8 picks, Grimes, Quickly, Toppin, McBride.... and that they Jazz don't want Barrett.
 

Imbricus

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(3) Boston Celtics: WEEI host claims Jaylen Brown wants out of Boston : bostonceltics (reddit.com)
Yeah, I've been seeing a few stories like this, and some mention Jaylen feeling disrespected by Boston fans, or not wanting to play in Tatum's shadow. I'd take it cum grano salis for now. Look at it this way: Brad just brought in Brogdon, and he and Jaylen are supposed to be buds, plus Brogdon gives them an even better chance of winning a title. I think it's just sportswriters looking for things to write about, like how they spin endless fake trades during dry news spells.
 

pjheff

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These Mitchell talks are pretty Ainge-ian. Go big, rile up the media, potentially piss off your star player and put the other team in the position of looking foolish. Pretty clear why teams might prefer to deal with Stevens.
I love the work that Stevens is doing, but Ainge didn’t seem to have any problem dealing with Minnesota (in which he employed none of these “Ainge-ian” tactics).
 

lovegtm

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Tony Jones said a source told him that Danny's ask was:
6 of the 8 picks, Grimes, Quickly, Toppin, McBride.... and that they Jazz don't want Barrett.
If that's really the ask, I think they're pretty close and a deal likely gets done.
 

lexrageorge

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These Mitchell talks are pretty Ainge-ian. Go big, rile up the media, potentially piss off your star player and put the other team in the position of looking foolish. Pretty clear why teams might prefer to deal with Stevens.
What star players did Ainge piss off via trade talks?
 

Cellar-Door

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What star players did Ainge piss off via trade talks?
yeah, if anything Ainge may not have been loved, but players respected that he never lied to you. Look at PHI, where they shopped the hell out of Simmons, then lied to his face that they never did (when his agent could easily get that information).
 

Justthetippett

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I love the work that Stevens is doing, but Ainge didn’t seem to have any problem dealing with Minnesota (in which he employed none of these “Ainge-ian” tactics).
I think he did the same thing with Minn/Goebert, it’s just that it worked and when it works, it’s beautiful. When it hits a snag and gets into the media (either intentionally to create leverage or for some other reason) it turns into a drama. Maybe the Knicks do the deal that’s being reported but I think they’d be crazy to do so. And if it doesn’t happen, who knows what the impact will be on Mitchell.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Interesting mostly non-basketball article on Harden from the Haute Time: https://www.hautetime.com/nba-all-star-james-harden-haute-time-cover/103833/. Talks a lot about what Harden is doing off the basketball court (a lot). Also talks about his summer plan:

So are, namely, sacrifices in the way of fun, but that’s par for the course as he prepares to enter his 14th season in the NBA. He is no longer the young whippersnapper that he was in the first round, No. 3 pick (by the Oklahoma City Thunder) at the 2009 Draft, but he still loves basketball as much as he ever did, and maybe more, now that he has to work harder for it. “I’ve had the luxury of not having to deal with any serious injuries — with surgeries or whatnot — my entire career. But these last two years, I’ve been dealing with some hamstring issues, which are nothing to play with. So I’m taking this summer as an opportunity to do something for me, to make sure that I get back to the elite level that I know I can be at and that I will be at,” he vows. “So that’s priority No. 1. Basketball is the engine that drives everything — for us to be having this conversation, all the partners that I have, and the great things that I have going on outside of basketball — so I’ve got to make sure that’s on point.”
Which, especially in the summer after a grueling season, can be challenging. “I’ve got to be cautious of what I eat, because as you get older, your metabolism slows down. It sucks honestly, because I love to eat and I don’t want to be having to watch how many calories I intake. I don’t shred fat as fast as I used to, so I have to work extra hard, especially in the summertime. In the summertime, I just want to be free; I want to eat, sip wine, and do whatever I want to do. And it’s still [early summer], so I don’t want to be going crazy working out now, but I am going into year 14, so I’ve got to be cautious as far as hitting my peak — when I’m supposed to be in my stride — going into the season.”
The struggle is real James, the struggle is real. He echoes this sentiment, saying, “Being focused is boring, you know what I mean? Sometimes you want to have a little fun. Still, there is a goal, and to get there, you have to put the work in. For the most part, this summer is going to be about strictly focusing on basketball, and being in the best shape, the best condition, and making sure my body feels good, ultimately. But you also have to find a balance, and I think that’s what I’m doing. I think that’s what I’m great at.
 

lovegtm

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Interesting mostly non-basketball article on Harden from the Haute Time: https://www.hautetime.com/nba-all-star-james-harden-haute-time-cover/103833/. Talks a lot about what Harden is doing off the basketball court (a lot). Also talks about his summer plan:

So are, namely, sacrifices in the way of fun, but that’s par for the course as he prepares to enter his 14th season in the NBA. He is no longer the young whippersnapper that he was in the first round, No. 3 pick (by the Oklahoma City Thunder) at the 2009 Draft, but he still loves basketball as much as he ever did, and maybe more, now that he has to work harder for it. “I’ve had the luxury of not having to deal with any serious injuries — with surgeries or whatnot — my entire career. But these last two years, I’ve been dealing with some hamstring issues, which are nothing to play with. So I’m taking this summer as an opportunity to do something for me, to make sure that I get back to the elite level that I know I can be at and that I will be at,” he vows. “So that’s priority No. 1. Basketball is the engine that drives everything — for us to be having this conversation, all the partners that I have, and the great things that I have going on outside of basketball — so I’ve got to make sure that’s on point.”
Which, especially in the summer after a grueling season, can be challenging. “I’ve got to be cautious of what I eat, because as you get older, your metabolism slows down. It sucks honestly, because I love to eat and I don’t want to be having to watch how many calories I intake. I don’t shred fat as fast as I used to, so I have to work extra hard, especially in the summertime. In the summertime, I just want to be free; I want to eat, sip wine, and do whatever I want to do. And it’s still [early summer], so I don’t want to be going crazy working out now, but I am going into year 14, so I’ve got to be cautious as far as hitting my peak — when I’m supposed to be in my stride — going into the season.”
The struggle is real James, the struggle is real. He echoes this sentiment, saying, “Being focused is boring, you know what I mean? Sometimes you want to have a little fun. Still, there is a goal, and to get there, you have to put the work in. For the most part, this summer is going to be about strictly focusing on basketball, and being in the best shape, the best condition, and making sure my body feels good, ultimately. But you also have to find a balance, and I think that’s what I’m doing. I think that’s what I’m great at.
Honestly, I would not feel great about these quotes as a Philly fan.

"Basketball is great if you can get into shape, but it's tough"

"There's more to life than basketball, but if basketball goes well, that's nice too"

"Staying in shape is hard; being out of shape is easy. There's no good answer, but I want to find a balance"
 

67YAZ

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Yeah, I've been seeing a few stories like this, and some mention Jaylen feeling disrespected by Boston fans, or not wanting to play in Tatum's shadow. I'd take it cum grano salis for now. Look at it this way: Brad just brought in Brogdon, and he and Jaylen are supposed to be buds, plus Brogdon gives them an even better chance of winning a title. I think it's just sportswriters looking for things to write about, like how they spin endless fake trades during dry news spells.
Jaylen is so engaged with his hometown community, I have always assumed he would at some point join the Hawks. But Jaylen is also so varied in his interests and engaged with many partners (Cal, MIT, etc) that he really has no shortage of charitable and professional opportunities across the NBA map. He's a fascinating guy and will no doubt take a very thoughtful, considered approach to his next destination.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The linked story is hilarious. The idea that Jaylen Brown would reveal his plans to Jermaine Wiggins at a party in the Hamptons, and then give Wiggins permission to air it on WEEI is completely absurd.
Alcohol can make a person open up. Not an unrealistic scenario given the setting.
 

Jimbodandy

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Honestly, I would not feel great about these quotes as a Philly fan.

"Basketball is great if you can get into shape, but it's tough"

"There's more to life than basketball, but if basketball goes well, that's nice too"

"Staying in shape is hard; being out of shape is easy. There's no good answer, but I want to find a balance"
"For the most part, this summer is going to be about strictly focusing on basketball, and being in the best shape, the best condition, and making sure my body feels good, ultimately. But you also have to find a balance, and I think that’s what I’m doing. I think that’s what I’m great at."

The bolded would horrify me too.

I remember stories from the old days of McHale being more of a balance guy vs. Bird's "basketball uber alles" (and it being a small problem between them). Both guys got injuries that weren't usage or fat-guy injuries, so it was probably immaterial in their cases.

Harden has had conditioning problems. He needs to focus more on his body as he ages, not less. The fact that he's so comfortable talking about this wine-basketball balance publicly is odd to me.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Honestly, I would not feel great about these quotes as a Philly fan.

"Basketball is great if you can get into shape, but it's tough"

"There's more to life than basketball, but if basketball goes well, that's nice too"

"Staying in shape is hard; being out of shape is easy. There's no good answer, but I want to find a balance"
C'mon, James is moving from tequila to wine. Kind of unreasonable to ask a man to sacrifice more than that.
 

Cellar-Door

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Honestly, I would not feel great about these quotes as a Philly fan.

"Basketball is great if you can get into shape, but it's tough"

"There's more to life than basketball, but if basketball goes well, that's nice too"

"Staying in shape is hard; being out of shape is easy. There's no good answer, but I want to find a balance"
Maybe, on the other hand, it's a change from Harden's past where he never cared about it. I see it as a recognition that he has to work harder now to keep in shape and party less. In HOU his response to "hey maybe less partying, chicken wings and booze at the strip club?" was always "fuck you I'm an MVP candidate, I do what I want"

Edit- now maybe the balance thing is a big red flag, but it could also be his way of talking about how going from not watching anything to denying yourself anything you enjoy is a recipe for failure. I mean, LeBron is a freak... he still likes to drink some wine. I think that's (maybe) what Harden is talking about, is the idea that you need to find a way to enjoy yourself that isn't about excess and fits within his new dedication to things like tracking calories.
 

Caspir

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What star players did Ainge piss off via trade talks?
Ray Allen is the only one that springs to mind.

Jaylen did like a tweet that said he was under appreciated by the fans, but that’s a pretty big leap to wanting out. This is the type of story that comes out because there’s no actual controversy around a successful Boston team. Media gonna media, and all.
 

Cellar-Door

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Ray Allen is the only one that springs to mind.

Jaylen did like a tweet that said he was under appreciated by the fans, but that’s a pretty big leap to wanting out. This is the type of story that comes out because there’s no actual controversy around a successful Boston team. Media gonna media, and all.
Allen wasn't even trade talks, it was that Danny didn't show any real interest in giving him the kind of money he wanted in an extension.
 
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