Let's say BB stays on until he retires. What does that mean for the franchise?

epraz

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Mayo will be an NFL head coach before he's 40. Mark it down.
That story makes a lot of sense--only a guy with that kind of internal drive would subject himself to the hours and shit-eating it takes to climb up the NFL coaching ranks, when he's already made $80 million dollars in his career.
 

tims4wins

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That story makes a lot of sense--only a guy with that kind of internal drive would subject himself to the hours and shit-eating it takes to climb up the NFL coaching ranks, when he's already made $80 million dollars in his career.
The thing is, he is kind of fast tracked. He started coaching in 2019. He already had a HC interview after 2020. So he isn't going to have to pay his debts for years and years unlike some other coaches. He stepped right into the ILB coach position, and now is semi-DC.
 

epraz

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The thing is, he is kind of fast tracked. He started coaching in 2019. He already had a HC interview after 2020. So he isn't going to have to pay his debts for years and years unlike some other coaches. He stepped right into the ILB coach position, and now is semi-DC.
True, but none of those jobs are easy. If you've made tens of millions of dollars and want to take it easy but still want to be involved in the game, you work in the media. If you're willing to put in the time to be a coach, you want it.
 

Eddie Jurak

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My general life goal is not to believe Bedard in anything he says. He's always full of shit.

Mayo retired young. He got his money and he got out. Smart man.
Injuries had a lot to do with that. He had 5 mostly healthy years (missed 5 games), two mostly injured ones (missed 20 games and all playoffs), and one year where he played a limited role (33% of defensive snaps).

Being on the team from 2008-2015 and with his injuries, he ended up only playing in 8 playoff games as a Patriot, missing another 5. Pats missed in 2008, lost their first game in 2009-10 (2 playoff games), reached the SB in 2011 (3 more), lost in the second game in 2012-13 (4 for the team but Mayo missed one), won the SB in 2014 wth Mayo injured, and lost in game 2 in 2015 with Mayo missing one).

It is weird to spend 8 years with the Patrios of this era, mostly as a starter, and only get 8 playoff games and one (lost) SB.
 

tims4wins

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Again… he is going to win both coach and executive of the year so that this thread can remain in the archives for all of history.
 

JOBU

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Again… he is going to win both coach and executive of the year so that this thread can remain in the archives for all of history.
Still a lot of work to be done before we can start talking about this but it’s trending the right direction.
 

NortheasternPJ

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SMU_Sox

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The deal with Perkins is he is coming from a slashing system in Oklahoma where he either never played standing up or rarely did and he is coming to a 3-4 system where he would have to play a much more complex role. In theory you could use him as a rotational pass rusher but the team is so stacked at OLB that he hasn’t gotten looks. I am not too concerned about it. He probably needs a year to acclimate. I’m still skeptical of him as a player and of his fit here but I can understand why he hasn’t made a contribution yet. Jury will be out for a while on him.
 

Jimbodandy

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My biggest head scratcher from this year is what's up with Ronnie Perkins. They say the right things, I know it may be a redshirt but just to be a scratch is odd. Maybe they just think him sitting a year is the best for him. I know BB does it with a lot of rookies, but not a snap?

https://nesn.com/2021/11/patriots-rookie-impressing-position-coach-steve-belichick-behind-the-scenes/
Honestly I think that it's just the deepest part of the team right now. It's like the one area where they actually have too many good players and haven't been hard hit with injuries.

Even with Sony traded and White out, they're still sitting one of Rham and Taylor every week, and there's nothing wrong with those guys. Depth is good.

Edit: SMU beat me to it (and said it better)
 

Euclis20

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Honestly I think that it's just the deepest part of the team right now. It's like the one area where they actually have too many good players and haven't been hard hit with injuries.

Even with Sony traded and White out, they're still sitting one of Rham and Taylor every week, and there's nothing wrong with those guys. Depth is good.

Edit: SMU beat me to it (and said it better)
I think Stevenson's days as a healthy scratch are pretty much done with, although he's always just a Jonas Gray away from disappearing entirely.
 

Super Nomario

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My biggest head scratcher from this year is what's up with Ronnie Perkins. They say the right things, I know it may be a redshirt but just to be a scratch is odd. Maybe they just think him sitting a year is the best for him. I know BB does it with a lot of rookies, but not a snap?

https://nesn.com/2021/11/patriots-rookie-impressing-position-coach-steve-belichick-behind-the-scenes/
They only had 5 snaps for Chase Winovich last night and just 13 for Uche the week prior. So it doesn't surprise me they don't have much available for Perkins. I guess you can quibble with the couple weeks they activated Tashawn Bower ahead of him?
 

bakahump

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There was some shoulder soreness Last year and a bit of a Groin Pull in spring Training......But BB has come back strong and seems to have the same electric Pedro-esque stuff he ever had.
 

Silverdude2167

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I get why no one wants to talk about the third possibility, but they also could be an above-average team that has been figuring things out.
Other than Miami, two of their losses are to top teams and one, to a Jekyll and hyde that seems above average.

I don't know what to make of them yet, but in 6 weeks I would not be shocked if they were 8-4 or well 4-8.
Now just don't lose to the Jets...
See I knew they would be 8-4 at this point...totally believed that would happen.

So I guess they may be an above-average team, that at least today got some bounces.
 

nattysez

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Were there rumors about Marv Levy's mental acuity, or how much work he was actually doing, at the end of his career? I'm trying to sort out what BB found so awful about the end of Levy's career that he's said he doesn't want to wind up like Levy. Levy's seasons in his 70s were 10-6, 10-6, and 6-10, so it's not like he was an embarrassment, record-wise.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Were there rumors about Marv Levy's mental acuity, or how much work he was actually doing, at the end of his career? I'm trying to sort out what BB found so awful about the end of Levy's career that he's said he doesn't want to wind up like Levy. Levy's seasons in his 70s were 10-6, 10-6, and 6-10, so it's not like he was an embarrassment, record-wise.
I think it’s safe to say we read too much into that comment he made to the NFL Films camera in ‘09. I think Bill genuinely doubted at the time he would still be coaching in the NFL into his 70s, but it was an off handed remark ultimately. I don’t think anything about Levy in particular informed that comment, there just aren’t many examples for him to call on and that one was pretty recent.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I think it’s safe to say we read too much into that comment he made to the NFL Films camera in ‘09. I think Bill genuinely doubted at the time he would still be coaching in the NFL into his 70s, but it was an off handed remark ultimately. I don’t think anything about Levy in particular informed that comment, there just aren’t many examples for him to call on and that one was pretty recent.
I think Bill ripped off 3 SB wins in 5 years and that changed his view of how much longer he wanted to keep doing this.

Edit: BTW, BB got his 288th regular season coaching win today. He needs 30 more to catch legendary coach/asshat Don Shula. If we are doing predictions as to when BB will hang 'em up... mine is not until after 2024.
 

Seels

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Were there rumors about Marv Levy's mental acuity, or how much work he was actually doing, at the end of his career? I'm trying to sort out what BB found so awful about the end of Levy's career that he's said he doesn't want to wind up like Levy. Levy's seasons in his 70s were 10-6, 10-6, and 6-10, so it's not like he was an embarrassment, record-wise.
I always took it on more of a statement of him not wanting to work into his seventies then something about Levy in particular.
 

tims4wins

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7 streaks in NFL history with a team winning 6 games in a row with a 148+ margin:
68 Cowboys
87 Niners
99 Rams
07 Pats x 2
10 Pats
21 Pats

I’d say he’s lost it.
 

Euclis20

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I think Bill ripped off 3 SB wins in 5 years and that changed his view of how much longer he wanted to keep doing this.

Edit: BTW, BB got his 288th regular season coaching win today. He needs 30 more to catch legendary coach/asshat Don Shula. If we are doing predictions as to when BB will hang 'em up... mine is not until after 2024.
40 to catch Shula. Not impossible that he catches Shula by the end of 2024 (that would be a winning percentage of .714), but that would be quite a run.
 

Eddie Jurak

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40 to catch Shula. Not impossible that he catches Shula by the end of 2024 (that would be a winning percentage of .714), but that would be quite a run.
I'm math challenged today, 40 is correct. If he was set on that record, he'd need to go 41 of 56 from now to then. To get there he'd basically need to continue at his career Patriots winning percentage (72%), harder to do without Tom Brady, though.
 

Rosey Ruzicka

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Belichick's response to the thread title:
"Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him, maybe I'll drill him in the ass."
 

azsoxpatsfan

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Took him 11 years to do it again, clearly slipping.
Yep. Then again, take out the point-differential qualifier and you have this:

seasons under Belichick in which the Patriots have had at least a 6-game win streak: 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021
 

tims4wins

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Yep. Then again, take out the point-differential qualifier and you have this:

seasons under Belichick in which the Patriots have had at least a 6-game win streak: 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021
14 of the last 21 seasons. That is mind blowing.
 

simplyeric

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As it’s become less ‘cool’ to be the one calling ‘cliff’ about TB12 every season, it becomes more cool to start taking about BB.

CLIFF!
 

jmcc5400

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Yep. Then again, take out the point-differential qualifier and you have this:

seasons under Belichick in which the Patriots have had at least a 6-game win streak: 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021
From 1960-1999, the franchise had 5 streaks of 6 or more: 1976 (6), 1978 (7), 1985 (6), 1986 (7) and 1994 (7).
 

WheresDewey

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Not only has he not lost his fastball, he should be towards the front of the line for Coach of the Year honors. Winning the division with a rookie QB should be the coup de grace. We're on to Buffalo!
 

BaseballJones

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The Patriots were down 22-9 against Houston in the third quarter. Then the Texans had that bizarre botched punt that gave the Pats the ball at Houston's 36 yard line. Since that point, the Patriots have outscored their opponents 220-98 (+122), and have gone 7-1, with their only loss being in overtime to a fully-loaded Cowboys team in a game in which the Pats were one fourth-and-four away from winning.

Of the Pats' four losses, one was by one point against Miami when Harris fumbled inside the 10 yard line, another was by two points when the Pats' third down pass was batted down at the line (with a receiver wide open) and then Folk missed the long FG against Tampa, and the aforementioned OT game against Dallas.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The Patriots were down 22-9 against Houston in the third quarter. Then the Texans had that bizarre botched punt that gave the Pats the ball at Houston's 36 yard line. Since that point, the Patriots have outscored their opponents 220-98 (+122), and have gone 7-1, with their only loss being in overtime to a fully-loaded Cowboys team in a game in which the Pats were one fourth-and-four away from winning.

Of the Pats' four losses, one was by one point against Miami when Harris fumbled inside the 10 yard line, another was by two points when the Pats' third down pass was batted down at the line (with a receiver wide open) and then Folk missed the long FG against Tampa, and the aforementioned OT game against Dallas.
One thing worth noting: turnover differential is a key part of this.

The Houston game was their 5th game. In it, their turnover differential was negative. (Two turnovers lost vs one gained). Including Houston, their turnover differential was negative in 4 of their 5 games, and they were 2-3. On net, 9 lost vs 6 gained, but outside of the Jets gaime it was 9 lost vs 2 gained.

The following week, the OT Dallas loss, the turnover differential was even (2 lost vs 2 gained).

Since then, during the 6 game win streak, it has been positive in every game. On net, 4 turnovers lost vs 17 gained.

Getting to 2-4, they had one clean (turnover-free) game, the win vs the Jets. Since then, during the win streak, they have had 3 clean games and two more where they only turned it over once.

On the bad side, that is probably an unsustainable turnover ratio. On the good side, they are clearly not the turnover machine they looked to be early on.
 

Van Everyman

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Well, the first few weeks seemed largely to be a factor of uncharacteristic ball security issues (Harris, Stevenson and Taylor all had lost fumbles) and a handful of odd picks from Mac. So that’s maybe not totally surprising.
 

orgoman

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One thing worth noting: turnover differential is a key part of this.

The Houston game was their 5th game. In it, their turnover differential was negative. (Two turnovers lost vs one gained). Including Houston, their turnover differential was negative in 4 of their 5 games, and they were 2-3. On net, 9 lost vs 6 gained, but outside of the Jets gaime it was 9 lost vs 2 gained.

The following week, the OT Dallas loss, the turnover differential was even (2 lost vs 2 gained).

Since then, during the 6 game win streak, it has been positive in every game. On net, 4 turnovers lost vs 17 gained.

Getting to 2-4, they had one clean (turnover-free) game, the win vs the Jets. Since then, during the win streak, they have had 3 clean games and two more where they only turned it over once.

On the bad side, that is probably an unsustainable turnover ratio. On the good side, they are clearly not the turnover machine they looked to be early on.

I think this is a very keen observation. I think back to the last Brady year (2019) when through about 12 games the Patriots looked like they had the all-time best defense, fueled mainly by an ungodly turnover ratio (something like +25). This also helped cover up much of the deficiencies of the offense - giving them great field position and inflating the margin of victories. The team then fell apart over the last few weeks as the turnovers didn't materialize, didn't get a bye and were dispatched in the first round of the playoffs.

Now, I'm not saying this team is that team. But I do think this turnover differential is masking some serious problems with this team. The defense (which I think is generally pretty good) got absolutely creamed on the ground versus the Titans. They gave up a stupid 63-yd TD run with 48 seconds left in the half that absolutely should not happen to a good team. The offense struggles to punch the ball into the end zone - they are settling for field goals a ton of the time. These are all huge red flags that - on a team not coached by Bill Belichick - would in my mind signal a team not ready to make it to the Super Bowl.

Now, the glass-is-half-full side would note that Mac Jones is still improving. The line is getting healthier. The coaching staff is excellent and the team should iron out these issues. And there is time left in the regular season to do this. The glass-is-half-empty side will note that the Pats have faced 6 teams in a row that are exceedingly banged-up/too young and stupid/giving the games to the Pats with turnovers.

The only games this whole season that the Pats faced a good team who played a good game were against the Cowboys and Bucs. And the Pats came up short both times.

Now I'm not saying this Pats team can't win a super bowl. I hope they do. But I think that if the season ended today, it would be foolish to think they will breeze to a title.
 

BaseballJones

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Their 10 possessions yesterday: TD, FG, FG, FG, Missed FG, FG, punt, TD, FG, TD

You're going to win a lot of games when you kick 5 FG and score on 8 of the 10 times you have the ball. Kicking FGs isn't bad when you kick a hell of a lot of them. They averaged 3.6 points per drive yesterday. This year the entire NFL is averaging 2.07 points per drive. The Pats had a point and a half more *per drive* yesterday than the league average. That was a dominant offensive performance even with a lot of FGs.
 

Ed Hillel

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Coaching is one thing, but assuming the Pats finish with 10-11 wins, is there even a case that anyone other than William Stephen Belichick is Executive of the Year? Crushed the draft, crushed free agency (especially if Jonnu keeps improving), is anyone even close? I think there’s a strong chance it’s unanimous.

Now…has anyone ever won both Coach AND Executive of the year?
 

Eddie Jurak

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I'm not sold yet on the Pats being sustainably that good (ie, 2nd in league good). But the 2 upcoming Buffalo games will be telling.