Let's say BB stays on until he retires. What does that mean for the franchise?

BaseballJones

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BB isn’t getting fired. The mere hint of a suggestion of that is ludicrous. He just made the playoffs with a rookie QB which simply doesn’t happen often.
 

lexrageorge

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If it didn't end poorly, it probably wouldn't end.

Time passes everyone by eventually. The true test for Belichick, now, is how he responds. If we get more of the same drafting and free agent duds and they go 9-8 or worse, then it's probably time to call it. If they get into the playoffs again, it's hard to call for his head.

The only years they haven't gone to the playoffs in his tenure were Brady's first full year (thanks in part to the Jets(?) tanking it in the last game of the season), the year Cassel had to lead the team (going 11-5, which is usually good enough for a berth), and with Cam. I think he's earned at least one more season at the helm.
I don't think the bolded is correct. The final game of the season featured victories by the Jets and Pats, who beat Miami, resulting in all 3 teams finishing 9-7. The Jets won on a common games tiebreaker, thanks to the Pats losing to the Broncos.

The Pats had the tiebreaker over Miami, but were in a 3-way tie with the Browns and Broncos for the 2nd wild card. But the Browns had the best conference record, and so won the final tiebreaker.

2008 was weird, as I believe that Patriots team was the only 11-5 team in league history to miss the playoffs. The Chargers won the AFC West with an 8-8 record. The NFC sucked ass that year, and so the AFC teams all had inflated records. Pats again lost 2 tiebreakers: one in the division against Miami, and one for the wild card against the Ravens.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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YMMV, but the worst end to a season was the 1 in 18-1.

Second worst was the Eagles SB where Brady threw for over 500 and they lost.
 

BelgianSoxFan

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They did as well as I could have expected, the game was ugly but I did not expect them to win the Superbowl. The year the superbowl was cancelled or when they lost to the jets or the year they lost to the colts when their whole secondary was injured were so much worse. They could have won the superbowls those years, I was crushed those years for days or weeks. And I forgot the eagles SB, because I was flying with my eagle fan boss to China the next day, and he was amazingly graceful, but it still sucked for the whole trip.
 

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They did as well as I could have expected, the game was ugly but I did not expect them to win the Superbowl. The year the superbowl was cancelled or when they lost to the jets or the year they lost to the colts when their whole secondary was injured were so much worse. They could have won the superbowls those years, I was crushed those years for days or weeks. And I forgot the eagles SB, because I was flying with my eagle fan boss to China the next day, and he was amazingly graceful, but it still sucked for the whole trip.
What year was the Super Bowl cancelled?
 

Silverdude2167

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So since the Bills just killed the Pats and half the board thinks the sky is falling lets use them as an example of what is possible.

In Josh Allens first season they went 6-10 were 30th in offense and 18th in defense (but second in yards)
Two years later they make the AFCCG and this year they are a game away.

So with a team that just went 10-7 with a rookie QB, do we not think that BB can retool the team to be successful in the next two years?
One more good draft probably makes them contenders in two years if not next year.
 

jsinger121

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So since the Bills just killed the Pats and half the board thinks the sky is falling lets use them as an example of what is possible.

In Josh Allens first season they went 6-10 were 30th in offense and 18th in defense (but second in yards)
Two years later they make the AFCCG and this year they are a game away.

So with a team that just went 10-7 with a rookie QB, do we not think that BB can retool the team to be successful in the next two years?
One more good draft probably makes them contenders in two years if not next year.
Have you seen the defense lately? There are so many holes there it will take multiple years to fix that side.
 

Ferm Sheller

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I don't remember it exactly, it is the year they won 18 games in a row, and then they cancelled the superbowl, that is how I remember it.
They canceled it because the Pats had won 18 of 18 games going into it, and so the league figured that even if the Pats were somehow to lose that game, they'd still be the champs because what team goes 18-0 to start a season.
 

kenneycb

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So since the Bills just killed the Pats and half the board thinks the sky is falling lets use them as an example of what is possible.

In Josh Allens first season they went 6-10 were 30th in offense and 18th in defense (but second in yards)
Two years later they make the AFCCG and this year they are a game away.

So with a team that just went 10-7 with a rookie QB, do we not think that BB can retool the team to be successful in the next two years?
One more good draft probably makes them contenders in two years if not next year.
I agree in theory. I just don’t think Jones’s upside is as high as Allen’s was. Allen had the measurables / physical traits but not the mental tools. Jones is the opposite.
 

Shelterdog

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Have you seen the defense lately? There are so many holes there it will take multiple years to fix that side.
NFL units-especially on defense-can turn around fast. If Judson plays like he did the first half of the year Barmore improves and you just get a couple more players they might play a lot more like the good defensive unit we saw for most of the year than the really bad one we’ve seen the last couple of weeks
 

EvilEmpire

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I can understand criticizing the coaching for how the defense has played lately. That doesn't seem unreasonable. But I really can't imagine any circumstances where a Patriots fan wouldn't want BB to be the one to figure out what went wrong and be the one to fix it.

Unless he doesn't want to put the time in anymore, and I think he'll let everyone know when that is, I'm guessing he has a better chance of improving on what went wrong much, much better than most.
 

SMU_Sox

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2015 their roster fell apart to injuries but 2019, 2020, and 2021 have been bad the last stretch of the season. They didn’t just fade this year but faded big time. In their last 4 losses they have been outscored 17-82 at the half. Yikes. Mac has turned the ball over 8 times in those 4 losses. The defense played ok vs the Colts but was a dud against the Bills both times and had a bad day against the Dolphins. For the first time in the history of the BB Patriots the team will finish with a negative special teams DVOA%. I don’t think he’s lost his fastball but these are some frustrating results.
 

CaptainLaddie

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I don't think the bolded is correct. The final game of the season featured victories by the Jets and Pats, who beat Miami, resulting in all 3 teams finishing 9-7. The Jets won on a common games tiebreaker, thanks to the Pats losing to the Broncos.

The Pats had the tiebreaker over Miami, but were in a 3-way tie with the Browns and Broncos for the 2nd wild card. But the Browns had the best conference record, and so won the final tiebreaker.

2008 was weird, as I believe that Patriots team was the only 11-5 team in league history to miss the playoffs. The Chargers won the AFC West with an 8-8 record. The NFC sucked ass that year, and so the AFC teams all had inflated records. Pats again lost 2 tiebreakers: one in the division against Miami, and one for the wild card against the Ravens.
Second. There was a Broncos team that went 11-5 and missed them.
 

Ferm Sheller

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What's the worst case scenario that their first round draft pick could be at this point? Does anyone know?

EDIT: I think I may have answered my own question -- is it 21? That's not bad.
 

Cellar-Door

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What's the worst case scenario that their first round draft pick could be at this point? Does anyone know?

EDIT: I think I may have answered my own question -- is it 21? That's not bad.
I believe with the loss they are locked into no lower than 21, no higher than 19 depending on the PHI and PIT outcomes.
 

jose melendez

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I can understand criticizing the coaching for how the defense has played lately. That doesn't seem unreasonable. But I really can't imagine any circumstances where a Patriots fan wouldn't want BB to be the one to figure out what went wrong and be the one to fix it.

Unless he doesn't want to put the time in anymore, and I think he'll let everyone know when that is, I'm guessing he has a better chance of improving on what went wrong much, much better than most.
I want him there, and I don' think he's lost much off his fastball.

That said, having his son as the de facto DC is bad, and its not something that smart coaches do. One way or another, you have a warped perspective on your own kid's work.
 

Ferm Sheller

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I believe with the loss they are locked into no lower than 21, no higher than 19 depending on the PHI and PIT outcomes.
Yes, thanks. I came across the tankathon web site (couldn't think of the name of it earlier) and that's what I concluded. All the more reason to root for Pittsburgh tomorrow night -- they always draft well.
 

Jimbodandy

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Have you seen the defense lately? There are so many holes there it will take multiple years to fix that side.
The defense that got them to the playoffs with a mediocre offense has multiple years of holes to fix?

I get being angry right now, but the defense was gold a month ago. It doesn't need to be completely rebuilt.
 

riboflav

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2015 should get a mention, too - started 10-0, finished 2-4 to blow the #1 seed, squeaked by the Alex Smith Chiefs and lost to a punchless Broncos team in the AFCCG.

For as much as Belichick's teams have a reputation for peaking late, it hasn't been the case as much as it has over the past decade.
Wow. Only won 3 Super Bowls in the last decade. Been to two others. What a fraud. This thread is grand. Good job everyone.
 

scottyno

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I don't think the bolded is correct. The final game of the season featured victories by the Jets and Pats, who beat Miami, resulting in all 3 teams finishing 9-7. The Jets won on a common games tiebreaker, thanks to the Pats losing to the Broncos.
They had it reversed, it was the Packers tanking against the Jets. I have not fond memories of the Packers starters keeping the game close, and then the backups rolling over in the 2nd half because the Packers had nothing to play for. That was before the NFL got smart and put games that mattered at the same times, so the Pats pulled out a huge comeback win and then it meant nothing as we watched the Pack fall apart i the later afternoon game.
 

rodderick

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The defense that got them to the playoffs with a mediocre offense has multiple years of holes to fix?

I get being angry right now, but the defense was gold a month ago. It doesn't need to be completely rebuilt.
Won't the defense have multiple holes to fill anyway? Bentley, Collins, Hightower, JC Jackson and McCourty will all be free agents. Maybe they'll be able to replace them all adequately in a single offseason, but it's a tough task. Even if most of those guys weren't playing at that high a level, it's simply a whole lot of starters you'd have to improve on.
 

NortheasternPJ

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The 2022 current top cap numbers, which obviously can change but some awful use of cap. Picking up Wynns option seems like a awful idea alone.
 

RedOctober3829

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Belichick has to seriously evaluate how he picks and develops defensive players in the draft. The days of having big, plodding linebackers are over. Guys like Hightower and Bentley are too big and slow to play the style of football the league is playing. They need to get much faster at LB. When he does pick more athletic guys(Winovich and Uche) they can’t develop them to the point where they’re contributors. They also have not had good success with their edge players. Outside of Judon(who was terrible against the run all year), their edge guys haven’t rushed the passer well nor have they played the run well. Bottom line is that the defense is too slow in the front seven and very thin in the back end.

Coaching has not been great overall. The slow starts, sloppy penalties, terrible special teams play, and lack of adjustments especially the last 2 weeks point to players not being ready to play. Some of that is on the players as well, but they were not as well coached as past teams.

There needs to be some changes made on the defensive staff. They clearly don’t have the answers to how to stop the Bills(or most mobile QBs) and it would help if people were brought in from outside the organization that have had success in this area. The Bills aren’t going away anytime soon and whatever Bill is doing is not working.

I would also evaluate why they’re so conservative in obvious go for it situations on 4th down.
 

IdiotKicker

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We’ve seen NE go through a complete rebuild on the defense end previously in the 2009-2012 era. That era also saw the embarrassing loss to the Ravens in the playoffs, followed by the loss to the Jets in the playoffs with the Drive to Nowhere after going 14-2 in the regular season, where everyone thought it was a changing of the guard for the AFC East.

NE has 2, maybe 3 players to build around on defense for the next run - Dugger, Barmore, and JCJ if re-signed, which is going to take some maneuvering on the cap, so I put that as a lower than 50% chance. I don’t count Judon in because of his age and contract, as I think there’s one more year before the defense is ready for prime-time if the rebuild goes smoothly. Phillips is in the same boat as he’ll be 30 next season. But this draft/offseason, they need to hit on FS, CB, and LB. It’s a huge offseason. They don’t have much cap room, so they need to have a good draft on that side of the ball. As others have mentioned, athleticism and speed are going to be key. They got that with Dugger and Barmore. Now, they need to add at least two more good, young pieces there. Maybe Uche gets back on track next year and takes care of the EDGE/LB side of things, depending on how they want to deploy him, but this year was disappointing there.

On offense, I think they obviously need more dynamic playmakers at WR. I think they’re good at RB, fine at TE even with Jonnu not playing up to his contract because Henry was very good, and they’ll probably continue to draft OTs because it’s always good to draft OTs. But they need to find some mid-round WR with athleticism and ability to separate. Those aren’t easy today, because everyone targets those guys, even if undersized, but that’s the one major need on offense to build for the future.

But I would go defense-heavy in this draft, and I think if they get two hits on that side of the ball, it sets them up well to add another piece or two the following year in the draft, add another guy through free agency after this season once the cap is cleaner and we can unload some deadweight, and then you’ve got a defense with 5-6 fast, athletic, young guys, with Judon and Phillips in the back end of their contracts and some other CBs they’ll coach up to handle slot and dime duty.

So yesterday really sucked, but they’ve been in this position before. I don’t necessarily implicitly trust BB to handle this, but he’s dealt with this exact situation previously, and then won 3 SBs in 5 years once he rebuilt the D, so he has done this successfully in his last attempt. It doesn’t guarantee he can do it here, but I am personally giving him the next two seasons to see what kinds of improvements he can make on that side of the ball.
 

rodderick

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We’ve seen NE go through a complete rebuild on the defense end previously in the 2009-2012 era. That era also saw the embarrassing loss to the Ravens in the playoffs, followed by the loss to the Jets in the playoffs with the Drive to Nowhere after going 14-2 in the regular season, where everyone thought it was a changing of the guard for the AFC East.

NE has 2, maybe 3 players to build around on defense for the next run - Dugger, Barmore, and JCJ if re-signed, which is going to take some maneuvering on the cap, so I put that as a lower than 50% chance. I don’t count Judon in because of his age and contract, as I think there’s one more year before the defense is ready for prime-time if the rebuild goes smoothly. Phillips is in the same boat as he’ll be 30 next season. But this draft/offseason, they need to hit on FS, CB, and LB. It’s a huge offseason. They don’t have much cap room, so they need to have a good draft on that side of the ball. As others have mentioned, athleticism and speed are going to be key. They got that with Dugger and Barmore. Now, they need to add at least two more good, young pieces there. Maybe Uche gets back on track next year and takes care of the EDGE/LB side of things, depending on how they want to deploy him, but this year was disappointing there.

On offense, I think they obviously need more dynamic playmakers at WR. I think they’re good at RB, fine at TE even with Jonnu not playing up to his contract because Henry was very good, and they’ll probably continue to draft OTs because it’s always good to draft OTs. But they need to find some mid-round WR with athleticism and ability to separate. Those aren’t easy today, because everyone targets those guys, even if undersized, but that’s the one major need on offense to build for the future.

But I would go defense-heavy in this draft, and I think if they get two hits on that side of the ball, it sets them up well to add another piece or two the following year in the draft, add another guy through free agency after this season once the cap is cleaner and we can unload some deadweight, and then you’ve got a defense with 5-6 fast, athletic, young guys, with Judon and Phillips in the back end of their contracts and some other CBs they’ll coach up to handle slot and dime duty.

So yesterday really sucked, but they’ve been in this position before. I don’t necessarily implicitly trust BB to handle this, but he’s dealt with this exact situation previously, and then won 3 SBs in 5 years once he rebuilt the D, so he has done this successfully in his last attempt. It doesn’t guarantee he can do it here, but I am personally giving him the next two seasons to see what kinds of improvements he can make on that side of the ball.
Thing is even those "rebuilt" Ds he put together during that period usually hung around 12th-18th in DVOA every year, which was good enough to win with provided you have a great offense and all time QB play. I don't think a 2014-2019 type of defense would be enough for this team to truly contend unless Mac improves by leaps and bounds and he does it fast.
 

IdiotKicker

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Thing is even those "rebuilt" Ds he put together during that period usually hung around 12th-18th in DVOA every year, which was good enough to win with provided you have a great offense and all time QB play. I don't think a 2014-2019 type of defense would be enough for this team to truly contend unless Mac improves by leaps and bounds and he does it fast.
2014-2018 was 8th, 9th, 2nd, 6th, 7th in points allowed per drive.
 

rodderick

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My point is that regardless of their DVOA, they were consistently above-average to one of the league’s best units at actually preventing opponents from scoring for the exact 5-year period you mentioned.
Yup, I'm sure the fact they never turned the ball over on offense, had great special teams, basically always played with a lead and ranked 2nd, 2nd, 1st and 1st in average opponent starting field position during those years had nothing to do with preventing giving up points. But hey, if you think the 2017 Patriots were the 6th best defense in football, that's great.
 

SMU_Sox

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I look back at the last two losses to the Bills and while I had time to review the first one thoroughly this one obviously I don’t. Hightower played poorly in the first loss. Bentley was fine. This loss aside from Bentley trying to cover Knox on that one reception he was fine until he was injured. Hightower couldn’t make an impact. Hightower had to carry the burden as one of the bigs when they went nickel and dime the whole game and he couldn’t generate anything. The problem in this one was there was no pressure and instead of having Gilmore, JCJ, and Jon Jones as the primary group of corners they had JCJ, Baugbsy, and Ross/Bryant. They were down to corners 2, 6, 7, and 8. Oh they had JJW but he sucks. They needed a huge game from their IDLs and edges. Instead the IDLs and edges got blown up… while they were in nickel and dime packages. If your defensive line loses in nickel and dime then 1) they will run effectively against you and 2) Allen will have so much time that the coverage will fail. Last night both things happened. On top of that the coverage was the worst we have seen all year. Even JCJ wasn’t shutdown.
Last night they had smaller faster LBs playing, Dugger and Phillips. Both had some really bad moments although Phillips made some plays. When the Pats were in dime they ran for chunks. When the Pats were just in nickel Allen would have time to find the open man because there was no pressure and the coverage was left to guys who are not starters.
DMC had a bad game too - their pursuit angles and tackling last night was the worst or close to the worst all year.
Daboll knew what buttons to push and Allen executed flawlessly again. Allen though, unlike the first game, wasn’t even hurried much although I’ll wait for the pressure numbers to come out.

@IdiotKicker and I are aligned on the draft. They need ILB, CB, FS, receiving RB, X receiver/Returner, and OT.

Offensively I was encouraged by their game plan. They attacked the bills outside and threw a ton of deep shots. The problem was when the score got out of hand the Bills could pin their ears back, rush the passer, and not have to worry about the run.

We talked here about how the Pats would struggle against a team with 3 good WRs because of the lack of corner depth and that was with Mills healthy. Again… no Gilmore, no Jon Jones, and no Mills vs the Bills when your pass rush doesn’t show up? Game over.

I don’t know why this team completely fizzled in 4/5 games. Leadership from the coaching staff of players? Is there internal tension in the building? DMC kind of hinted at that with his frustration last game vs the Bills and McKenzie.
 

Silverdude2167

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Yup, I'm sure the fact they never turned the ball over on offense, had great special teams, basically always played with a lead and ranked 2nd, 2nd, 1st and 1st in average opponent starting field position during those years had nothing to do with preventing giving up points. But hey, if you think the 2017 Patriots were the 6th best defense in football, that's great.
You are not wrong but also I think a bit pessimistic about the O's ability to replicate the above. They were 5th in average opponent starting position, no reason to see that get worse next year or beyond.

Assuming Mac improves (big if) the past formula still works. And maybe I am nieve but I can't see BB having terrible special teams again.
 

SMU_Sox

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Quick note re defense. It’s very hard to have a good defense year in and year out. Defenses are a lot more volatile than offenses. While the defense needs to get both younger and more effective that probably means they need to hit on picks this year. Perkins didn’t see the field much if at all. Uche took a colossal step backwards. He’s twitched up but he can’t handle responsibilities on defense. Can’t set the edge. When he rushes he abandons his lane or gets pushed out of it if he loses. He is a speed/finesse player who couldn’t scratch out reps. Jennings was AWOL and looked out of place as an ILB last year. He’s more of an OLB but didn’t get reps there this year in camp even before he got hurt. Wino is out the door. Their only young and rookie contract producing member of the front 7 is Barmore who needs to learn to tackle this off-season. So front 7 is a low-key need too.
 

IdiotKicker

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Yup, I'm sure the fact they never turned the ball over on offense, had great special teams, basically always played with a lead and ranked 2nd, 2nd, 1st and 1st in average opponent starting field position during those years had nothing to do with preventing giving up points. But hey, if you think the 2017 Patriots were the 6th best defense in football, that's great.
Yes, they were good everywhere. That’s kind of what we’re going for, isn’t it? I’m suggesting that they can build this again.
 

SMU_Sox

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@IdiotKicker Pats will finish the year for the first time ever in BB’s tenure with them with a negative ST DVOA after last night (going into the game their ST was right at basically 0%, very slightly negative). Aside from getting Bailey healthy who was clearly hurt all year why did they have so much trouble vs their usual on kick returns and punt returns to a lesser extent? It felt like they just had too many short returnable kicks and punts but I’m not going to pretend I actually know what I’m talking about with STs. Thanks in advance. Really look forward to what you have to say here.
 

Eddie Jurak

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2015 should get a mention, too - started 10-0, finished 2-4 to blow the #1 seed, squeaked by the Alex Smith Chiefs and lost to a punchless Broncos team in the AFCCG.

For as much as Belichick's teams have a reputation for peaking late, it hasn't been the case as much as it has over the past decade.
2015 their roster fell apart to injuries but 2019, 2020, and 2021 have been bad the last stretch of the season. They didn’t just fade this year but faded big time. In their last 4 losses they have been outscored 17-82 at the half. Yikes. Mac has turned the ball over 8 times in those 4 losses. The defense played ok vs the Colts but was a dud against the Bills both times and had a bad day against the Dolphins. For the first time in the history of the BB Patriots the team will finish with a negative special teams DVOA%. I don’t think he’s lost his fastball but these are some frustrating results.
So, when I thought about 2015, I decided that having won a playoff game means that it was better year than 2019 0r 2021. The other round one exist years:

In 2010 they went 14-2 and lost a playoff game by a TD. The game was not as close as that makes it sound, but it was one game.

In 2009, that was an ugly loss, but not as bad as 47-17, and they closed out the season better.

This year was like the team fought its way into the #1 seed after a slow start and then just... punched out and went home.
5 of 40-something first round QBs have started a playoff game their rookie year since 2009 and the Sanchize.
This is neither here nor there. Jones might not have been able to win this for them, but the rest of the team never even gave him a chance to.
 

IdiotKicker

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@IdiotKicker Pats will finish the year for the first time ever in BB’s tenure with them with a negative ST DVOA after last night (going into the game their ST was right at basically 0%, very slightly negative). Aside from getting Bailey healthy who was clearly hurt all year why did they have so much trouble vs their usual on kick returns and punt returns to a lesser extent? It felt like they just had too many short returnable kicks and punts but I’m not going to pretend I actually know what I’m talking about with STs. Thanks in advance. Really look forward to what you have to say here.
I think the ST coaching was atrocious this year and I would actively look to bring someone not named Joe Judge in. The three blocked punts speak to horrible execution, as it is basically impossible to block a punt in the NFL if you competently coach assignments and pickups. Then there was the offsides on the FG, the covering of the snapper on punt return - these are systemic issues with coaching either not being good or not being received by the unit as a whole, which speaks to an issue with ST coaching.

I don’t want Judge back because I think he lacks credibility after his tenure with the Giants. Like, I view him as a joke, and given that you need someone with credibility in that room right now, I don’t want Judge there because his quotes from the last month would diminish him in the eyes of players, even if he’s a really good ST coach tactically.

As to the short kicks, I think Bailey was hurt, and doing double duty does wear him down somewhat. I know that makes kickers and punters seem a bit soft, but we are, and it is a heavy load with all the practice reps to be able to stay sharp at an NFL level. I also think there may be a strategy to try to hold the opposing team inside the 25 by enticing them to return the kicks, but the coverage unit was not up to snuff there, which is a combination of personnel and coaching.

But overall, this was the worst special teams performance I have ever seen for a unit as a whole, not just in NE. It was terrible in 5 out of 6 aspects, with only the FG unit operating well. That is a recipe for coaching turnover, and I hope they aggressively pursue someone experienced with a good track record there.
 

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I think the ST coaching was atrocious this year and I would actively look to bring someone not named Joe Judge in. The three blocked punts speak to horrible execution, as it is basically impossible to block a punt in the NFL if you competently coach assignments and pickups. Then there was the offsides on the FG, the covering of the snapper on punt return - these are systemic issues with coaching either not being good or not being received by the unit as a whole, which speaks to an issue with ST coaching.

I don’t want Judge back because I think he lacks credibility after his tenure with the Giants. Like, I view him as a joke, and given that you need someone with credibility in that room right now, I don’t want Judge there because his quotes from the last month would diminish him in the eyes of players, even if he’s a really good ST coach tactically.

As to the short kicks, I think Bailey was hurt, and doing double duty does wear him down somewhat. I know that makes kickers and punters seem a bit soft, but we are, and it is a heavy load with all the practice reps to be able to stay sharp at an NFL level. I also think there may be a strategy to try to hold the opposing team inside the 25 by enticing them to return the kicks, but the coverage unit was not up to snuff there, which is a combination of personnel and coaching.

But overall, this was the worst special teams performance I have ever seen for a unit as a whole, not just in NE. It was terrible in 5 out of 6 aspects, with only the FG unit operating well. That is a recipe for coaching turnover, and I hope they aggressively pursue someone experienced with a good track record there.
I think you are overstating the impact of Judge's actions with the Giants. The Patriots players are so heads-down that I highly doubt they have paid any attention to Joe Judge in NY. I think he would have instant credibility because a good chunk of the roster would still know him. Their ST were very good under Judge, I have no reason to believe they would tune him out if he came back.
 

alydar

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 19, 2006
921
Jamaica Plain
That said, having his son as the de facto DC is bad, and its not something that smart coaches do. One way or another, you have a warped perspective on your own kid's work.
100% with this. Creates a giant blind spot where Bill may *not* do “what’s best for the team”
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
8,878
Dallas
I do not want JCJ back next year. He talked too much and in big moments got shredded. Last night he was fucking terrible. Lots of Asante in him and I have no use for that.
Diggs has been his kryptonite for years now. He’s a pro bowl caliber corner in my eyes but Diggs is a pro bowl caliber receiver and gets the better of him. JCJ is their best defensive player or second best if you really love Phillips. Losing him would mean Mills is CB1 with… Shaun Wade as someone on the roster who might be able to play there? I think JCJ should be a priority for them. If he goes they are down to abysmal outside guys and Mills who had a good year as a #2 guy but isn’t even best outside and is not a lockdown corner by any stretch.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,100
The defensive performance was the direct result of subsequent bad drafts coming home to roost. The Uche-Jennings-Asiasi-Keene picks are going to be costly. While 3rd round picks are hit or miss, a team needed to hit on at least one of them, and so far, the returns are not promising. That was a big draft, as was the prior season's fiasco of Harry, Williams, Winovich, Harris (the only quality player from that draft), Cajuste, and Froholdt. There's the reason the Pats were relying upon a number of older players in key roles.

The 2009 defense sucked as well. Belichick had to convince Junior Seau to come out of retirement to boost a "corps" that consisted of a totally washed up Adalius Thomas and Derrick Burgess, a terrible Gary Guyton, and a DB corps of Leigh Bodden, Darius Butler, Shawn Springs, Terrence Wheatley, and Jonathan Wilhite. The bad news is that it took a few years, and the drafting of Chandler Jones, Hightower, McCourty, Jamie Collins, and later Duron Harmon and Logan Ryan to join Mayo and Ninkovich. And that team had, shall we say, difference makers on offense.

It's certainly not unsalvageable. Teams have rebuilt bad defenses in a couple of seasons (Bills, for example). But this draft is huge for the team, and they also need to see what they have in the NFI folks from this past draft (Perkins, McGrone, and Bledsoe), although I'm not all that optimistic, as NFI players seldom seem to make much impact here.
 
BB isn’t getting fired. The mere hint of a suggestion of that is ludicrous. He just made the playoffs with a rookie QB which simply doesn’t happen often.
I'll go one step further: the suggestion that BB could *ever* get fired seems ludicrous to me. If Belichick isn't allowed to coach as long as he wants, after everything he has achieved, what are we even doing here? (The closest to a firing I can even envisage would involve Kraft asking him to relinquish his GM duties and him viewing that as a grave enough insult to resign and retire.)
 

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,952
Isle of Plum
100% with this. Creates a giant blind spot where Bill may *not* do “what’s best for the team”
Sure, but BB is not going to hire a respected DC. It’s part of the reason why his coaching tree is so bad. He’s going to put a loyalist or a stooge in run his system, not get a talented veteran who won’t lick his boots. BB has certainly earned the right, I just wouldn’t play it that way.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

Throw Momma From the Train
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May 20, 2003
35,734
Deep inside Muppet Labs
Sure, but BB is not going to hire a respected DC. It’s part of the reason why his coaching tree is so bad. He’s going to put a loyalist or a stooge in run his system, not get a talented veteran who won’t lick his boots. BB has certainly earned the right, I just wouldn’t play it that way.
This is stupid, didn’t they have Dean Pees as DC at one point? Romeo?