On The Clock at #3. Time To Go on Record.

Who are you taking at #3, provided the Celtics are unable to swing a deal for a star?


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    130
  • Poll closed .

Eddie Jurak

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All along I've been thinking of Bradley as the natural guy to trade. Undersized 2, IT likely to play off-ball more, etc.

But looking at it from another angle, the C's are a bad shooting team and Bradley is one of their only good outside shooters. Trade Bradley and draft Dunn and you have taken a bad shooting team and made it worse, no?

I really have no idea what moves Danny will make over the next month. No idea whatsoever.
 

gammoseditor

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Jul 17, 2005
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My preference is Dunn, as the Celtics are too good for a "swing for the fences" pick this year. I think Dunn's defense is more of a sure thing for this year than the potential offense of Brown or Chriss (though Chriss is my second choice for his defense), and a streaky shooter like Hield is not worthy of a #3 pick in any draft.

After that, it's time to keep trusting Trader Danny with his stash of guards and draft picks.
I don't agree they are "too good" for anything. The Cavs, Warriors, Spurs, and Thunder are on a different level. If the ultimate goal is to make the eastern conference finals they can play it safe. It's not.

I agree with those that say Bender has the highest floor and highest upside, but a trade is still the first option.
 

RedOctober3829

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Dunn was on Sirius radio last week with Adam Schein and Schein asked him about the Boston report. He said that the report of refusing to work out for Boston didn't come from him and that he'd love to play for the Celtics. There's so much agent and team spin out there at the moment so it's tough to tell what's real and what's not.

I originally voted for Hield because if they were going to make moves for veteran players Hield would fit in as a ready-made shooter off the bench. But, I believe that Kris Dunn will be the pick yet I don't think he'll ever be a Celtic. I think he will be involved in a trade.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Dunn was on Sirius radio last week with Adam Schein and Schein asked him about the Boston report. He said that the report of refusing to work out for Boston didn't come from him and that he'd love to play for the Celtics. There's so much agent and team spin out there at the moment so it's tough to tell what's real and what's not.

I originally voted for Hield because if they were going to make moves for veteran players Hield would fit in as a ready-made shooter off the bench. But, I believe that Kris Dunn will be the pick yet I don't think he'll ever be a Celtic. I think he will be involved in a trade.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that Boston did not work out Dunn and did not receive his medicals per his father. Dunn did not lie in saying that "He" didn't say these words as he did not.....his representatives did this.
 

Mooch

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Jul 15, 2005
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Murray. Has potential to be an primary scoring option with terrific range: Exactly what this team needs.
 

jimbobim

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I want no part of bender. Just too far away for me. I think Ainge will try hard to get Love away but if he does have to keep the pick it's either Dunn or Buddy for me. Dunn has incredible ceiling due to his vision, length, and speed IMHO while Buddy reminds me a lot of Harden.
 

Drocca

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Jul 21, 2005
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Bender. Swing for the fences (assuming there's no trade to be made, which would still be my preference). Based on the limited info we have, Bender looks like he has the highest ceiling in the draft after Simmons/Ingram.
Agreed. Hope to trade; settle for the best ceiling.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I want no part of bender. Just too far away for me. I think Ainge will try hard to get Love away but if he does have to keep the pick it's either Dunn or Buddy for me. Dunn has incredible ceiling due to his vision, length, and speed IMHO while Buddy reminds me a lot of Harden.
James Harden? Hield doesn't have anything close to Harden's ability to facilitate for teammates or get to the rim and draw fouls in iso situations as the focal point of an offense.
 

TheoShmeo

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With the huge caveat that I really do not watch college basketball and am only going on what I have seen and read around this pick, I hope they take a shooter and the guy I want least is Bender.

I think someone like Murray or Hield could provide the consistent scoring and more accurate shooting that they need. I like Dunn too but I worry a little about how that would work with Thomas.

As to Bender, I just see him having too much volatility. Really high upside, really low downside.
 

RedOctober3829

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I can tell you with 100% certainty that Boston did not work out Dunn and did not receive his medicals per his father. Dunn did not lie in saying that "He" didn't say these words as he did not.....his representatives did this.
That's what my point is. His agent said those things whether they are true or not for perceived leverage. Just because those things were said does not mean he doesn't want to play for Boston. Dunn's surgeries were performed by the Celtics team doctor so even without his actual medical records they'll have insight into his injuries.
 

jimbobim

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James Harden? Hield doesn't have anything close to Harden's ability to facilitate for teammates or get to the rim and draw fouls in iso situations as the focal point of an offense.
I'm pretty sure not being like Harden in this regard is fine. Harden and getting teammates involved is not in anyway close to the elite part of his game.
 

gammoseditor

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That's what my point is. His agent said those things whether they are true or not for perceived leverage. Just because those things were said does not mean he doesn't want to play for Boston. Dunn's surgeries were performed by the Celtics team doctor so even without his actual medical records they'll have insight into his injuries.
I don't think that's right. Doctors can't release medical information without permission.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I'm pretty sure not being like Harden in this regard is fine. Harden and getting teammates involved is not in anyway close to the elite part of his game.
I am far from a Harden apologist, but Houston's entire offense is "James, draw all of the defenders and find an open shooter or take it to the rim." Sixth in assists with such noted offensive juggernauts as Broken Dwight Howard, Trevor Ariza, Patrick Beverly, and Corey Brewer as his running mates. What more should he be doing?
 

HomeRunBaker

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I'm not sure what his answer would be, but ethically and legally he's not supposed to answer that question.
It's all rhetoric at this point and the message was sent to Boston. There have been no red flags with Dunn's shoulder.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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I still want them to take Dunn. I think he will be the best of the rest after two, and may have a better career than Ingram.

Wouldn't IT be a tremendous 6th man who gets his 25 mpg and Dunn slides over (or IT plays off ball) for some of the game? Trade Smart if you can get something of use. A backcourt of Smart/Bradley and Dunn would have to instantly be one of the best defensive backcourts in the league.

This team isn't ready to make the next step, not unless Durant and Co. are coming. They should not worry about who will bring the ball up or anything. Figure that out later.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Bender, and it's not particularly close. High ceiling/high floor, he's been dominant when playing against guys his age at the U18s, and he has tons of room to grow on both ends of the floor. Dunn would be next, but he's a poor fit for the current roster.
 

RhaegarTharen

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I voted Bender, but I'd be fine with Dunn or Brown as well. I couldn't care less if Bender isn't ready to help for the next year (or even two) - I want anybody drafted at 3 overall to have a chance to be a key player for the team for the next decade. This goes doubly so for the Celtics this year, given the opportunity to grab some more established players who can fill out the roster for immediate help with their later 2 first rounders.

If Bender pans out (even at 75% of his potential ceiling) he could be a key asset to a contending team for a long time, especially in the modern NBA. I think his skillset & size gives him the nod over Brown, but I think Brown fits this profile as well. Broown seems to be (IMO) slightly behind Bender from a probability of realizing his potential standpoint. If Ainge disagrees and prefers Brown to Bender based on the same criteria then I'm ok with that. The argument for Dunn is largely the same, with the caveat that he's more likely to be NBA ready from the get-go, but less of a fit for the team.

Either way I'm happy if the Cetlics roll the dice on any of those three guys because they believe he can be the best player who was available over the next decade. For a Top 5 pick, you aim high and figure out the roster construction later. Even if it doesn't pan out, I want to see them attempt to build a roster that has a chance to remain competitive long-term rather than settling for lesser talents with better short term "fit".
 

moondog80

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Gentle suggestion to merge this thread with "Your preferred target at 3", or even one all-inclusive draft thread?
 

Smokey Joe

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I'm not sure what his answer would be, but ethically and legally he's not supposed to answer that question.
Absolutely correct.
It would go something like this. The surgeon is handed a (short) list of prospects, he evaluates their medical records, does due diligence etc. "Doctor? Do you have any concerns about any of the potential draftees on this list?"
"I cannot comment on Mr. Dunn, however I have no concerns about any of the players on this list." or "I would not draft any of these guys without full medical records and a Physical." The English language is full of wonderful ambiguity.
 

Sprowl

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Gentle suggestion to merge this thread with "Your preferred target at 3", or even one all-inclusive draft thread?
Sorry, no. Megathreads are unwieldy at draft time. Better to have many threads for many topics, even if there is some overlap and repetition.
 

pjheff

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It is interesting to note how many people are clamoring for the best player available philosophically while simultaneously dinging Dunn seemingly only for his fit with the current roster in practice. For me, he looks like the best option likely to be on the board at #3. He has NBA athleticism, like Brown and Chriss, but unlike them he also possesses a proven track record that he can do good things with it on a basketball court. He has a resume of high achievement, like Murray and Hield, but unlike them he also has the physical traits which suggest that he won't be limited in his defense or versatility at the next level. I can understand the desire to swing for the fences with Bender, as the roster needs impact players, but the #3 spot in this draft might not be the right moment. Better to keep the line moving and hit a solid double than strike out mightily. Dunn's combination of playmaking and defense suggests that he has a higher floor than the alternatives, and his identified weaknesses, such as turnovers and shooting, are areas that should improve with experience and coaching over the long term. And even in the short term, I think that there is a defined role for Dunn on this team even as constructed. Assuming that Turner signs for more money elsewhere, his 28 mpg can go to Dunn who becomes the primary ballhandler for the 16 mpg Thomas isn't in the game and one who could play alongside him and move him off the ball for additional minutes. Frankly, I'm not worried about taking minutes from Rozier and would hope that Smart could develop as Turner did in his vacated role.
 

DJnVa

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In terms of analytics, here is a summary of why Bowiac and others are so down on Brown: http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4723335/not-the-model-choice-would-celtics-roll-dice-with-jaylen-brown. It's hard to ignore this evidence and since the Cs are stat-driven, it seems that Brown would be a stretch . . . .
Maybe, but that article also says this:
Then there's Steve Shea's College Prospect Ratings, which also uses on-court performance to project NBA potential. CPR was bullish on some of Boston's most recent draft picks, such as Terry Rozier, R.J. Hunter and Jordan Mickey last season (all three ranked in the top 15).
RJ Hunter ranked in the top 15.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Maybe, but that article also says this:

RJ Hunter ranked in the top 15.
It's ridiculous to compare warp of college players at different stages of developement playing in a league with different rules than the one they will be drafted into. The more developed and older college players like RJ Hunter, Sullinger, JuJuan Johnson, Harangody, nd Smart (Smart wasn't older but much more physically developed) are naturally better college players and scored much better with these numbers.

Between being a freshman, playing on a team with zero spacing and horrible lineup balance it isn't surprising he had terrible numbers as a college player. It's similar to the overreaction to analytics for Okafor without taking into account other critical factors in determining how this player projects in 2-3 years.
 

fenwaypa'k

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Jan 23, 2006
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I surprised myself somewhat in voting for Dunn. It is really a close call for me among 4 players.

I have been convinced by others that Bender offers a unique skill-set and, despite his limited playing time this year and his young age, he has a relatively high floor as a good defender who can pass and make open 3s at the 4 and maybe the 5 some. Even the most optimistic options don't peg him as a first or even second scoring option on a good team, though, so I think this limits his ceiling.

I really wanted the pick to be Jaylen Brown. That is, I really want Jaylen Brown to be a Jimmy Butler/Paul George prototype, but I'm really concerned he never gets close. I am particularly turned off by how bad he looks under the advanced metrics and that he was unable to transcend (at least a little more) the less than ideal circumstances at Cal. This is a tough call because he is young, has an NBA-wing body, and was such a highly regarded high school recruit, which traditionally is a decent barometer of future success.

For me, that leaves Murray and Dunn. On first blush, Murray is the guy, because he can shoot, something the Celtics (and every other team) need. He also is young, was a top high school recruit, and was a standout at the Nike Hoop Summit two straight years. But given Murray's defensive limitations, I have trouble seeing him being able to share the court with IT. Those two are just a terrible combination defensively, and for a variety of reasons, I don't see IT being moved by the Celtics. I think it is much more likely they move Bradley or Smart (more likely Bradley).

By contrast, I can easily see Dunn co-existing with IT. Dunn is long enough to play defense on the larger guard, and he can allow IT to play off the ball a little bit, which seemed to work for the Celtics in the playoffs. I think Dunn's ceiling is probably the all-star version of Kyle Lowry. Murray's ceiling is probably is the all-star version of CJ McCollum, with a little more range. Those ceilings seem comparable to me, so I take Dunn who, somewhat counter-intuitively, is a better fit, and who is probably more ready to step in and contribute due to his age.

Maybe that is short-sighted. And Murray is probably a better fit next to Smart. But I think it is going to be hard to keep IT off the floor for most of the minutes the next two years, and I hope that whoever the Celtics draft at 3 will also be able to be on the floor with him.
 

BigSoxFan

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I initially said Bender but I think I'm leaning Dunn as well. Bender is so far off from being a factor and Dunn would give Ainge a lot of flexibility to make deals this summer. I'm not sold on Rozier and IT is only a short-term solution given his size so PG may be a need sooner rather than later. Drafting Dunn would give Ainge the flexibility to make more deals this summer - whether it be by trading Dunn himself or someone in the IT/Smart/Bradley group.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I think the Cs should take Bender. He's dominated age-appropriate competition for a couple of years now; has great lateral movement and a really good shot (note quick release in video below); and should fit in nicely with the way the NBA is going. Kukoc with a better jump shot is his ceiling and I'll take it.

Here's some video that might turn some heads.
 

southshoresoxfan

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My primary concern w Bender is the frame. Narrow hips/shoulders make it hard to add lbs, something nobody will argue needs to be done to reach his potential.

Im leaning Dunn but id understand Brown or Chriss.

I still think there is a trade down. W PHO who selects Dunn. Cs select Chriss w PHOs pick
 

Green (Tongued) Monster

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My primary concern w Bender is the frame. Narrow hips/shoulders make it hard to add lbs, something nobody will argue needs to be done to reach his potential.

Im leaning Dunn but id understand Brown or Chriss.

I still think there is a trade down. W PHO who selects Dunn. Cs select Chriss w PHOs pick
I remember hearing that PHX was looking to trade back? I think if they trade the pick it will be with PHI or Utah, with NO or Denver as a possibility to move up a few spots.
 

DannyDarwinism

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My primary concern w Bender is the frame. Narrow hips/shoulders make it hard to add lbs, something nobody will argue needs to be done to reach his potential.

Im leaning Dunn but id understand Brown or Chriss.

I still think there is a trade down. W PHO who selects Dunn. Cs select Chriss w PHOs pick
I hadn't realized that Chriss didn't start playing organized hoops until he was 14. If this late start is a significant contributor to his oft-cited poor BBIQ, I'd feel much better about him- good size (though length is only 7'0), crazy athletic with good lateral quickness, and very nice stroke. He'll be a beast in transition, though he has a ton of work to do to be effective in a half court offense. I suspect he'll always be a poor passer, and that his rebounding will always be Bargnani-esque for a big, but he's toolsy enough in other areas to develop into something pretty exciting if the Celtics think he's coachable.
 

Pxer

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The Few. The Proud. The 13.8%.

I like the pick, and I'm personally glad they swung for the fences, given no trade materialized.