Patriots Acquire WR Josh Gordon

Harry Hooper

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It would be great if this all works out, but I'm definitely leaning towards he never takes a snap in an actual game for the Pats.
 

bsj

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If it doesnt work, they cut him, Nink. This isnt baseball. There are no guaranteed contracts. He MAKES himself fit or the Pats cut bait.
 

bigq

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RE: Brady there probably aren't two more polar opposite players in the NFL when it comes to how they treat their bodies. Good breakdown of Gordon's transgressions on Boston.com today.

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2018/09/18/josh-gordon-drugs-suspension-timeline

Gordon has probably been drunk more on Sunday than Brady has during his life.

Wonder if Gordon would be open to the TB12 Method and if Brady would offer it up.
That story is terrifying. I hope he can stay clean. His life probably depends on it.
 

TheoShmeo

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I'm sure they checked out available moves in late summer and decided that the pickings would probably be better later. (That remains to be seen). Did many useful receivers get picked up near or after cutdown day?
Ultimately, I think they planned for at least one of Mitchell, Britt or Matthews to stick.
First, I am delighted by the Josh Gordon move and don't mean to detract from it. When I saw a list of targets a few weeks ago, my eyes went first to him and stayed there. I get the risk. I read the words of those who understand addiction. I don't minimize any of that. But the guy has been a beast at times and I love the move and risk/reward calculus.

My point was that if PK wants to pick a mistake, I think on a relative basis, that starting the season with this crew of receivers was a much bigger error. You are right that injuries were a surprise. You are also right that the waiver wire was not very appealing. But whenever it was that I realized that this would be the group, I hoped that Bill would augment them. Easier said than done, I know. But if he had my level of urgency, I wonder if he could have made a trade or even had Dez Bryant for a look see. The answer that he might have tried to do a lot but my sense, and it's only a sense, is that he was more optimistic about this group than I was.

Again, I am talking about relative dumb here. PK pronounced them dumb for bringing in Gordon and my view is that not only was that not dumb, but that if you're straining to find dumb with respect to the WR position, there is a much easier target.
 

reggiecleveland

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This is the most difficult situation as a coach. Addictions always get seen as a "character" issue, in that the offender is bad person. And the behaviours that hurt others often make it hard to argue otherwise. The stress of having to perform as an NFL player can't be the best situation for a guy fighting these demons.

It is a coincidence for me that as high school coach I am going through something similar. Maybe I am more in the Browns spot than the Pats. I have worked closely with troubled, talented athlete, and I have to wrestle with how much he hurts the team, and other kids with helping him. I am not under any illusion the Pats are charity wanting to help Josh Gordon, but it is not an easy call to make. The optimistic side of a coach sees the troubled talented guy winning you games, when you probably know he most likley repeats a self destructive pattern.
 

snowmanny

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It would be great if this all works out, but I'm definitely leaning towards he never takes a snap in an actual game for the Pats.
The closest comp for the Gordon situation might be Terry Glenn. So I lean towards he wins them one game before he's cut.
 

InstaFace

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RE: Brady there probably aren't two more polar opposite players in the NFL when it comes to how they treat their bodies. Good breakdown of Gordon's transgressions on Boston.com today.

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2018/09/18/josh-gordon-drugs-suspension-timeline
Crazy stuff. This part was particularly sad:
According to GQ, Gordon was also informed in 2016 that there was a warrant out for his arrest for failure to comply with a paternity test. He said he wondered, “Who’s this girl? If there is a kid, who is this kid?” Gordon admitted to being his daughter’s father in court.
I'm not sure how you straighten out someone who would (recently!) utter the final paragraph. But if it can be done, I'm sure Belichick's equivalent of an HR department is in the midst of doing it. Probably by giving Gordon permanent lodging at Patriot Place, a 24/7 buddy to follow him around outside of practice, and filing enough Therapeutic Use Exemptions with the league that some get through just by accident.
 

InstaFace

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I’m happy about this and it has nothing to do with football. It’s well documented that the Patriots are a well oiled, disciplined machine with a history of providing stability for troubled players who need it. We don’t know for certain that that is exactly what Gordon needs but if it is, there’s not a better place for him. My opinion of the CLE front office will grow three sizes if we find out there was a better offer on the table but they wanted to send him to NE because they thought it would be the best thing for him.
That would be a contender for the most altruistic thing in NFL history, given the widely-reported rumors that Cleveland had the best offer for Garoppolo last year but Belichick ignored their calls, specifically in order to deal him to a better situation in SF.
 

Red Averages

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Crazy stuff. This part was particularly sad:


I'm not sure how you straighten out someone who would (recently!) utter the final paragraph. But if it can be done, I'm sure Belichick's equivalent of an HR department is in the midst of doing it. Probably by giving Gordon permanent lodging at Patriot Place, a 24/7 buddy to follow him around outside of practice, and filing enough Therapeutic Use Exemptions with the league that some get through just by accident.
Given Gordon has millions of dollars at stake, if he can stay grounded for a few years, you would hope he would have taken all of these steps himself already. I don't think he has earned that much money* so far in his career.

*relative to other pro athletes, let alone athletes with his talent.
 

Rough Carrigan

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That would be a contender for the most altruistic thing in NFL history, given the widely-reported rumors that Cleveland had the best offer for Garoppolo last year but Belichick ignored their calls, specifically in order to deal him to a better situation in SF.
Hasn't it always been immensely more likely that rather than not sending Jimmy to Cleveland being Belichick's choice that it was Don Yee's, that he put out the word to CLE that Jimmy's not going to sign with you under any circumstances?
 

InstaFace

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Hasn't it always been immensely more likely that rather than not sending Jimmy to Cleveland being Belichick's choice that it was Don Yee's, that he put out the word to CLE that Jimmy's not going to sign with you under any circumstances?
Probably, but the dissonance was too strong to pass without comment. I mean, I'd hope for that same thing too, but I'd be doubly shocked - based on both the general callousness of NFL teams who treat their players like cattle, and also based on what I said. Then again, they did do the Jamie Collins deal together so maybe there's some comfort that distinguishes Belichick in their eyes.
 

TFisNEXT

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You really want to root for the guy (regardless of the team) after reading some of that stuff about his past 10 years.
 

Super Nomario

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That would be a contender for the most altruistic thing in NFL history, given the widely-reported rumors that Cleveland had the best offer for Garoppolo last year but Belichick ignored their calls, specifically in order to deal him to a better situation in SF.
Please, the Jimmy G trade was 10 whole months ago, so Cleveland has a totally different front office in place.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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Well, a lot of my Eagles fan co-workers are all annoyed that the Patriots got him, so at the very least it has been an early success
 

drb22222222

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I am really excited for the Patriots and Josh Gordon but I'm afraid the NFL is going to ban him from the league before he really gets a chance here. Is it true that if he fails another test he will be banned rather than suspended. How many other players have been completely banned because of the drug policy. He is subject to random tests, how often do people think he is actually being tested? There are articles saying he was not himself at a team event. What does that mean? Is there any chance he could fail a test before Sunday?
 

NDame616

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Josh Gordon has failed/cheated drug tests at every level of football hes every played in. He's been suspended multiple times and got in trouble WHILE suspended and appealing another suspension.

He's on like strike 48 in the league. He made his bed
 

Ralphwiggum

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Josh Gordon has failed/cheated drug tests at every level of football hes every played in. He's been suspended multiple times and got in trouble WHILE suspended and appealing another suspension.

He's on like strike 48 in the league. He made his bed
It’s amazing to me how people have no understanding of addiction. There’s a member of this forum who shared his own story in this very thread, about how, with (presumably) many millions of dollars less at stake than Gordon he almost flushed his own job down the toilet, yet we still view these matters as things people have complete control over, and then feel comfortable passing judgment when they can’t control them.
 

j44thor

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It’s amazing to me how people have no understanding of addiction. There’s a member of this forum who shared his own story in this very thread, about how, with (presumably) many millions of dollars less at stake than Gordon he almost flushed his own job down the toilet, yet we still view these matters as things people have complete control over, and then feel comfortable passing judgment when they can’t control them.
Not to mention that he had the double whammy of a tough upbringing and no support system to steer him in the right direction. As someone with a relative who is an addict I have tried to better understand it. It is truly hard for me to grasp how someone can't simply make the right decisions but at the same time I'm cognizant of the fact that this isn't a bad person rather someone with demons I simply can't comprehend.
The brain is fragile and weird and not one size fits all.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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latest Ringer NFL podcast includes extended section w Lombardi discussing Gordon. Lombardi’s take is that Gordon at heart is a good kid and clearly is ridiculously talented...but doesn’t have a real passion for football and may not be able to pick up the Pats playbook. Lombardi was sympathetic to Gordon and his challenges, but said if he were the Pats, he wouldn’t have signed him.
 

djbayko

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I am really excited for the Patriots and Josh Gordon but I'm afraid the NFL is going to ban him from the league before he really gets a chance here. Is it true that if he fails another test he will be banned rather than suspended. How many other players have been completely banned because of the drug policy. He is subject to random tests, how often do people think he is actually being tested? There are articles saying he was not himself at a team event. What does that mean? Is there any chance he could fail a test before Sunday?
There's no sense in worrying about it. If it happens, it happens and we go back to being the team we were last week without Gordon. Everyone involved knows that his ability to stay clean is a big question mark, and our purchase price reflects that.
 

bakahump

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I hope this works out.
I hope Josh Gordon is able to find some solace and peace in sobriety.
I hope he makes some money and is able to take care of himself and his health in the years to come.
If he never catches a pass I hope these things.
If BB and the Patriots help in any of this then it was a good trade.
In an alternate dimension that allowed such things I would trade our 4-7th round picks to satan for 5 years of peace for this kid.
Sports is entertainment, But for the first time In my fandom I am thinking "we have had enough good times. If the choice between more good times and this kids life, I am choosing this kids life".
I would forfeit every game this year for this kid to attain a peaceful life.
I am not totally altruistic. Had the last 17 years not happened I would be rooting to use this kid up in a quest for my teams success. But they did happen. And I would be more thrilled at something good from this happening for Gordon then another Lomabardi.
 

pedroia'sboys

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Not to mention that he had the double whammy of a tough upbringing and no support system to steer him in the right direction. As someone with a relative who is an addict I have tried to better understand it. It is truly hard for me to grasp how someone can't simply make the right decisions but at the same time I'm cognizant of the fact that this isn't a bad person rather someone with demons I simply can't comprehend.
The brain is fragile and weird and not one size fits all.
My wife and father don't understand, I dont blame people for failing to grasp the horrors of addiction. Hell I don't even understand it, how I woke up in the morning and risked everything day in and day out. It's pure mania the only thing you think about is drugs and your next high theres no long term thinking. Nothing else matters. Some people view it as weak or a cop out but I truly believe I had no control over my drug use. No addict just stops not even when they lose everything but when they finally get the right help.
 
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Marciano490

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The learn the playbook must mean different things for different receivers with different skill sets, right? Like, Edelman must need to know a ton more plays to be effective than Moss, who’s still a weapon just sprinting down the field every play. Can’t a phenom like Gordon, with his size, pick up the same 10-15 plays every team runs and still get at it?
 

rodderick

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The learn the playbook must mean different things for different receivers with different skill sets, right? Like, Edelman must need to know a ton more plays to be effective than Moss, who’s still a weapon just sprinting down the field every play. Can’t a phenom like Gordon, with his size, pick up the same 10-15 plays every team runs and still get at it?
I don't know, both Brady and Belichick have talked about how gifted Moss was at understanding concepts and adapting to the offense really quickly. I believe Bill called him the smartest receiver he's ever coached. I don't believe there's a single position on that offense you could just plug and play a guy and expect great results. Obviously, they can put together specific packages to ease Gordon into it until he has a grasp of the playbook, but I don't think they're putting him on the field unless they're reasonably certain he knows what he's doing out there. The way things are going at that position, I'd love for Brady to call a play in the huddle and then just go "Josh, you run a slant", but that's not happening.
 

uncannymanny

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But he doesn’t need to be Randy Moss and break the TD record. For the time being I’d think having JG out there just running gos and posts is enough to cause significant disruption for the defense because you have to respect a guy that big and fast. Safeties aren’t going to let him go thinking “whatever that guy doesn’t even know the playbook.”
 

rodderick

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But he doesn’t need to be Randy Moss and break the TD record. For the time being I’d think having JG out there just running gos and posts is enough to cause significant disruption for the defense because you have to respect a guy that big and fast. Safeties aren’t going to let him go thinking “whatever that guy doesn’t even know the playbook.”
No one is saying he needs to be Randy Moss and break records, it's just that we have zero indication that Belichick would put a guy on the field just to run gos and posts if he doesn't grasp the playbook.
 

Marciano490

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I don't know, both Brady and Belichick have talked about how gifted Moss was at understanding concepts and adapting to the offense really quickly. I believe Bill called him the smartest receiver he's ever coached. I don't believe there's a single position on that offense you could just plug and play a guy and expect great results. Obviously, they can put together specific packages to ease Gordon into it until he has a grasp of the playbook, but I don't think they're putting him on the field unless they're reasonably certain he knows what he's doing out there. The way things are going at that position, I'd love for Brady to call a play in the huddle and then just go "Josh, you run a slant", but that's not happening.
Oh I wasn’t implying Moss wasn’t smart or studious. I’m just curious whether a guy with Gordon or Moss’s gifts needs to learn intricate plays the way an average receiver would in order to be effective. If the dude just runs 15 yard posts every play, he’s still going to be able to catch balls as soon as he and Brady get the timing right.
 

j44thor

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I'd think with Brady and the NE offense the key is to ensure Gordon is on the same page with respect to how they read the D pre-snap and ensure he makes the right route decision.

If he does have an extremely small play book it could become easy to predict and jump the route.
 

steveluck7

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The one way Gordon is similar to Moss and different from many of the other veteran WR additions is that he’s still in his prime. They can craft a handful (that hopefully expands as the weeks go by) of packages for him and he can go out and use his physical superiority to get the job done.
The problem with some other guys like Ocho Cinco, Reggie Wayne, etc is that they were past their prime and couldn’t rely on their talent as much anymore so they had to more fully integrate into the offense. Bill and the coaches weren’t going to create new packages for guys who weren’t gonna win the battles they needed to in order to make it worth it.