Patriots Training Camp 2022

Jimbodandy

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I think people are underestimating the Pats' cap situation. According to spotrac, they have about $1,151,000 in space today. But that is only factoring in the top 51. Once you get to Week 1, you need to account for EVERYONE, including IR and PS. Plus eventually you need to factor in roster-bonuses and things that tally up as the season progresses. Miguel typically says those things are about $5M, and that's after tallying the full count of all players. So Agholor's potential $10M in savings (less anything received back) actually is about the bare minimum of savings they have to find somehow. And if they were to cut him, it's less than $5M in savings.
Every year they restructure some guys and cut or trade someone that we didn't expect, purely for cap reasons. Nobody will be surprised when both happen this year too.

I don't think that people are saying "keep Agholor, we need everybody, especially receivers". If Agholor is a casualty of the cap, so be it. Just seemed like the general vibe of some of the posts were that we have so many great receivers, why not cut one. If that was a misread, apologies.
 

scottyno

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Too many drops for me to be enthused about his hands.
Meyers had 3 drops all year in 126 targets for 2 .4% drop percentage and caught 66% of his targets. Pro football reference only started tracking drops in 2018, but from 2018-2020 Edelman had 23 drops with a drop percentage of around 8%.

Agholor only dropped 1 pass on 64 targets, but had a much higher percentage each year from 2018-20, so maybe he got better or maybe he just got luckier.

FWIW Pats were one of the best teams all year last year in not dropping passes.
 

Euclis20

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Meyers had 3 drops all year in 126 targets for 2 .4% drop percentage and caught 66% of his targets. Pro football reference only started tracking drops in 2018, but from 2018-2020 Edelman had 23 drops with a drop percentage of around 8%.

Agholor only dropped 1 pass on 64 targets, but had a much higher percentage each year from 2018-20, so maybe he got better or maybe he just got luckier.

FWIW Pats were one of the best teams all year last year in not dropping passes.
For some context, Meyers had the 121st highest drop rate in the league. The only pass catchers with more targets and a lower drop rate were Mark Andrews, Davante Adams and Hunter Renfrow. There are reasons to criticize Meyers for his play (both current and future), but his hands really aren't one of them.
 

scottyno

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I think Mac has to deserve some credit for this.
I'm sure it's some combo of an offense that didn't throw deep a ton, Mac throwing a better ball than Cam, and not having Edelman anymore (he was great, but he also had a significant drop rate his last few seasons). Also possibly they targeted guys with better drop rates knowing they had a rookie QB, but I haven't really looked into that.

In the 4 years that drop rate has been tracked and ranked on football reference the Patriots are:

2018 4.4% 14th best
2019 5.5% 24th best
2020 4.3% 14th best
2021 3.0% 2nd best
 

Gash Prex

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steveluck7

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Bedard did not like what he saw today.

Let the record show that the Patriots' first padded period using the Shanahan run scheme was an abject disaster, among the worst I've seen covering the league.
False start; INT; Stuffed run; 2 yard run; Stuff; Good + run; Overthrow; Stuff; No gain; Stuff

Nowhere to go but up!
 

Over Guapo Grande

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Bedard did not like what he saw today.

Let the record show that the Patriots' first padded period using the Shanahan run scheme was an abject disaster, among the worst I've seen covering the league.
False start; INT; Stuffed run; 2 yard run; Stuff; Good + run; Overthrow; Stuff; No gain; Stuff

Nowhere to go but up!
And if things went well for the O, he had the "nothing has changed for this D" tweet queued up.
 

Gash Prex

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Based on everything I've read, I'm starting to get a bit intrigued about Thornton.
In OTAs it sounded like he might get a redshirt year - but I'm becoming more optimistic that he might make some actual contributions in year 1.
 

BaseballJones

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And if things went well for the O, he had the "nothing has changed for this D" tweet queued up.
I mean… it’s tough for both sides to look good at the same time. Let’s say Mac hits Agholor with a beautiful TD pass over Butler. Yay the offense looks wonderful. But boooo Butler got schooled.

Or the D makes a nice play and Duggar intercepts Mac. Yay the defense looks great. But booooo now I’m worried about Mac.
 

slamminsammya

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Bedard did not like what he saw today.

Let the record show that the Patriots' first padded period using the Shanahan run scheme was an abject disaster, among the worst I've seen covering the league.
False start; INT; Stuffed run; 2 yard run; Stuff; Good + run; Overthrow; Stuff; No gain; Stuff

Nowhere to go but up!
What is this "abject disaster" characterization? "People practice something new, are bad at it at on their first try" - no shit Bedard.
 

IdiotKicker

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What is this "abject disaster" characterization? "People practice something new, are bad at it at on their first try" - no shit Bedard.
That’s not really how NFL practices work. There are approximately 30 full pads practices in the course of an NFL season, with half of them taking place in training camp. Somewhere around 15-20 minutes of each practice is going to be an 11v11 session, usually 7-10 minutes per hour. You get 2-3 reps to get your assignment right, and then the expectation is that you are going to be able to use that during weekly installs, with wrinkles thrown in depending on the matchup. It’s not basketball where you can put up some additional shots after practice, it’s not getting a few extra swings in the cage. You get a handful of reps, and you have to be able to execute, because there is no other way to simulate the actual timing, speed, and precision necessary to actually execute a play in an NFL. If you’re ineffective in practice, generally you don’t have much rope before you start seeing players losing starting spots or getting cut. Is it possible the defense just won these reps? Sure. But 11s in a full pads NFL practice is pretty sacred time where you get maybe 10 hours of total work all season, so this isn’t “Let’s try this and then we can work on it for awhile” stuff. You do your walkthroughs and chalk sessions in OTAs to build your base, and if it isn’t working in full-speed reps, you don’t have much actual practice time to adjust it.
 

sodenj5

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Interesting that the Pats are going to try and implement a more wide zone based offense.

I literally had no clue what the Pats offense was going to look like and I assumed it was going to be much of the same, but I suppose if you really want to leverage Jonnu and Henry, it makes sense.
 

Super Nomario

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Exactly.

"First time trying brand new thing in pads, and offense outperformed by defense."

The pearl clutching is sublime.
It's not a brand new thing. The Pats probably run outside zone 40% of the time historically. They might run it more this year. But we are talking about week 1 install every year stuff, not something that should be foreign here.
 

Jimbodandy

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It's not a brand new thing. The Pats probably run outside zone 40% of the time historically. They might run it more this year. But we are talking about week 1 install every year stuff, not something that should be foreign here.
Ah. I took the pieces about switching over to the shanahan run scheme at face value.
 

Super Nomario

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Ah. I took the pieces about switching over to the shanahan run scheme at face value.
I'm not sure how seriously to take that stuff, but my point is that they have always run some of those run game concepts. They run more gap/power than zone blocking scheme, but they run a mix of both. If there's anything here, it's probably moving from a 60/40 mix to a 40/60 mix or something. Either way, this isn't reinventing the wheel here.
 

Jimbodandy

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I'm not sure how seriously to take that stuff, but my point is that they have always run some of those run game concepts. They run more gap/power than zone blocking scheme, but they run a mix of both. If there's anything here, it's probably moving from a 60/40 mix to a 40/60 mix or something. Either way, this isn't reinventing the wheel here.
Thanks. That makes sense. Not only were the pieces talking about the Pats making this change, but I found a piece talking about how big of a change it is to adopt the Shanahan run scheme. Then there's the quotes from Brown et al. about the simplified offense and--in Brown's case--how it changes his blocking. Your context here is actually very reassuring.
 

joe dokes

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Exactly.

"First time trying brand new thing in pads, and offense outperformed by defense."

The pearl clutching is sublime.
I think training camp reporters keeping stats and game-like notes like this, instead of talking to people to get some stories that might be interesting, is one of the worst football developments in the last 20 years.
 

steveluck7

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I think training camp reporters keeping stats and game-like notes like this, instead of talking to people to get some stories that might be interesting, is one of the worst football developments in the last 20 years.
well, in Bedard's defense, no one probably likes him so there's not much else for him to do!
 

RG33

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I love getting excited about WRs in training camp beating Joejuan Williams in coverage (not said in jest)!
 

Harry Hooper

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well, in Bedard's defense, no one probably likes him so there's not much else for him to do!
Here's a quote from his article:

Look, the defense likely had their ears pinned back knowing that runs were likely and you have to start somewhere instituting a new scheme, but it was rough. I will say that things looked much better when they went back to their traditional inside zone runs.
Hardly a panic-ridden take. The amount of crap that's casually tossed Bedard's way here is way overdone. He's actually been over-optimistic on the Pats win-loss record for multiple seasons.
 

8slim

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Here's a quote from his article:



Hardly a panic-ridden take. The amount of crap that's casually tossed Bedard's way here is way overdone. He's actually been over-optimistic on the Pats win-loss record for multiple seasons.
Not to mention that he puts in the work. I subscribe to the BSJ in no small part because of the week-to-week film breakdowns he does. People can dislike the guy, or disagree with his conclusions, but his assessment of the team is largely based upon a studied evaluation of play, not just Felger-esque takez.
 

BigJimEd

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Hardly a panic-ridden take. The amount of crap that's casually tossed Bedard's way here is way overdone. He's actually been over-optimistic on the Pats win-loss record for multiple seasons.
To be fair, there is a big difference between that quote and his over the top, sensationalized, look at me tweet.
 

Harry Hooper

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To be fair, there is a big difference between that quote and his over the top, sensationalized, look at me tweet.
Yes, the twitterverse is Mnookin's Feeding the Monster scaled up beyond all imagination. Jared Duran is being attacked on the main board for one line selected out of an interview I thought he handled well last night.
 

Mystic Merlin

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The thing to keep in mind with Bedard is his livelihood is dependent on generating traffics/subs to BSJ. Unlike other subscription-based pubs, or, for that matter, free content like ESPN, NFL dot com, etc, you are subscribing to BSJ to read his shit, not potentially 50 other things. So he turns it up a lot on Twitter and his spots on Felger and Mazz.

I think it slightly undermines his effectiveness as a pure analyst, especially once you realize that he’s overstating his views for effect, but as a business matter he’s probably gotta do it. No doubt he puts the work in as a football analyst, even if with his website administrator responsibilities he understandably seems more stretched thin than he was in his Globe days.
 

Gash Prex

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Shelterdog

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Here's a quote from his article:



Hardly a panic-ridden take. The amount of crap that's casually tossed Bedard's way here is way overdone. He's actually been over-optimistic on the Pats win-loss record for multiple seasons.
I listened to the podcast and he said that if they don’t improve the running game in the next two practices they’re in danger of losing the faith of players. That’s a little extreme
 

Eddie Jurak

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I'm seeing multiple positive mentions about Tyquan Thornton. Obviously any rookie has a long way to go from a few positive mentions early in camp, but I feel as if we are seeing more of these for Thornton than we have for other rookie receivers. Did we see early camp praise of Harry? Mitchell? Dobson?

No doubt I am getting way out over my skis in thinking the Pats might have found something here.
 

BigSoxFan

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I'm seeing multiple positive mentions about Tyquan Thornton. Obviously any rookie has a long way to go from a few positive mentions early in camp, but I feel as if we are seeing more of these for Thornton than we have for other rookie receivers. Did we see early camp praise of Harry? Mitchell? Dobson?

No doubt I am getting way out over my skis in thinking the Pats might have found something here.
Given what we’ve dealt with at WR position, if Thornton holds his fork right in the cafeteria, I’m getting excited.
 

Ed Hillel

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Mitchell started strong, then his forearm appeared to snap in half during a preseason game and ended his camp (though he only ended up missing like 3-6 weeks iirc.
 

Harry Hooper

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I listened to the podcast and he said that if they don’t improve the running game in the next two practices they’re in danger of losing the faith of players. That’s a little extreme
True enough
 
Feb 19, 2015
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I'm seeing multiple positive mentions about Tyquan Thornton. Obviously any rookie has a long way to go from a few positive mentions early in camp, but I feel as if we are seeing more of these for Thornton than we have for other rookie receivers. Did we see early camp praise of Harry? Mitchell? Dobson?

No doubt I am getting way out over my skis in thinking the Pats might have found something here.
I clearly remember excited posts about Harry catching touchdowns in practice on jump balls and how we haven't had a receiver like this in a long time, etc. etc.
 

Bigdogx

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Not a good start to camp, if it is as bad as some of the beat guys are saying we will clearly be seeing it a week from tomorrow on full display.
 

SMU_Sox

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Reading that they are using more out of the McVay playbook so far in camp. Whether they use that as a chunk of the offense in the pre-season games, practices, or regular season of course remains to be seen. It could be they are going to add that and are working on it but it's just a small part of the offense. Given that they might move away from using a FB it makes some sense. It also sets up some nice PA. McVay often used 11 but played Kupp like a TE to block. I would think Meyers is that guy in this offense. The Patriots have traditionally used a ton of run looks but hovered around 40%-50% gap/power runs. It's impossible to predict what they will do in the regular season now but I would expect at least more outside zone runs vs last year.

Edit: What do you know? As I was browsing Twitter I found an article describing this. It doesn't mention Kupp but tight splits and outside zone, yes.