Patriots Training Camp 2022

BaseballJones

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I think Bourne is a really good player on a $3.5 million base salary contract. I don't want the Patriots to trade him, but if they do, they should be able to get something pretty darned good in return for that kind of player for that kind of money.
 

Jimbodandy

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I think Bourne is a really good player on a $3.5 million base salary contract. I don't want the Patriots to trade him, but if they do, they should be able to get something pretty darned good in return for that kind of player for that kind of money.
Agreed. And while I hate to add to what's already an overemphasis here and elsewhere on offensive skill positions, I still worry about moving off skilled, experienced WR assets. Cap considerations are real of course, and there are only so many spots on the 53. But Mac's college game film shows what he can do with NFL receivers. I'd hate to yoke a second year QB with tight window throws all year because he doesn't have enough guys that can get separation.

If they move Bourne, it better be for something good.
 

Harry Hooper

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Bedard had this note:

Then they need to figure out what is going on with the receivers, specifically Kendrick Bourne, who was not seen on Friday night even though his locker was open and his uniform on his pads in it (usually a sign a player was expected to play).
On the other hand, the broadcasters mentioned how (by policy) everyone suits up for the Patriots even if they won't play when discussing why the Panthers got penalized for non-uniformed players joining the celebration after the pick-six. Either way, something appears to be afoot with Bourne.
 

rodderick

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Fuck, Thornton's development was far and away the most interesting thing about this off-season to me, was really looking forward to watch him get meaningful snaps in the regular season (and I believe he would have, from his reported training camp performance). Let's hope it's just bad luck and not an indication of his slight build not holding up.
 

lexrageorge

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Sounds like he will start the year on IR-DTR.

Not sure it changes the Pats approach with Bourne, as they really are too tight against the cap.
 

Gash Prex

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I wouldn’t be surprised to see him on IR designated to return and some roster manipulation to get him and the other WRs on the 53. Ie keep more WR than necessary and cutting some other player hoping to sneak them through at another position.

Thornton has to be on the 53 to be eligibile to return

He got piled on by about 8 Panthers who were clearly looking for something extra on the first play. No obvious injuries from these plays

 

radsoxfan

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Collarbone "injury" I presume means not a fracture or he would have said fracture? I hope...

Options would be:

AC (acromioclavicular) joint injury: If grade 1 or 2, not too bad (couple weeks, pain tolerance etc). Grade 3 or worse would be bad and potentially surgical.

SC (sternoclavicular) joint injury: Again, depends on the severity. If dislocated (as Amendola had awhile ago) pretty serious and 6+ weeks.

Clavicle bone contusion: best case, pain tolerance issue, return to play soon.
 

Jimbodandy

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Collarbone "injury" I presume means not a fracture or he would have said fracture? I hope...

Options would be:

AC (acromioclavicular) joint injury: If grade 1 or 2, not too bad (couple weeks, pain tolerance etc). Grade 3 or worse would be bad and potentially surgical.

SC (sternoclavicular) joint injury: Again, depends on the severity. If dislocated (as Amendola had awhile ago) pretty serious and 6+ weeks.

Clavicle bone contusion: best case, pain tolerance issue, return to play soon.
Even if it is a fracture, I'd assume they still do the plate and screws and it's six weeks, right?
 

RedOctober3829

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Collarbone "injury" I presume means not a fracture or he would have said fracture? I hope...

Options would be:

AC (acromioclavicular) joint injury: If grade 1 or 2, not too bad (couple weeks, pain tolerance etc). Grade 3 or worse would be bad and potentially surgical.

SC (sternoclavicular) joint injury: Again, depends on the severity. If dislocated (as Amendola had awhile ago) pretty serious and 6+ weeks.

Clavicle bone contusion: best case, pain tolerance issue, return to play soon.
So if it's a broken clavicle it could be anywhere from 4-8 weeks depending on whether or not he needs surgery?
 

RedOctober3829

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That’s a good ballpark, seems like there’s some variability to when team docs feel confident to clear them.
I don't have your view on things, but I would think if a player had to get hurt then breaking a bone is a much better thing than, say, a high ankle sprain or some type of ligament injury. Those ligament injuries tend to linger on whereas you know when a bone is fully healed.
 

Jimbodandy

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I don't have your view on things, but I would think if a player had to get hurt then breaking a bone is a much better thing than, say, a high ankle sprain or some type of ligament injury. Those ligament injuries tend to linger on whereas you know when a bone is fully healed.
Also IANAMD, but I'd rather have a clean clavicle break, a fixation, and back to business in 6 weeks than an amorphous joint thing that has much wider outcome bands. Curious what rad thinks though.
 

radsoxfan

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I don't have your view on things, but I would think if a player had to get hurt then breaking a bone is a much better thing than, say, a high ankle sprain or some type of ligament injury. Those ligament injuries tend to linger on whereas you know when a bone is fully healed.
Generally speaking probably true, though so much variability with any of these injuries hard to say that with full confidence.

Plenty of fractures in certain places are known to heal less reliably than other places. Fractures that extend into joints and involve cartilage have their own set of issues.

Ligament injuries can be different grades and certain ligaments heal confidently pretty well (MCL) while others somewhat variable along the spectrum to often not much at all (ACL).

I’d certainly rather have a player get a low grade MCL sprain or low grade low lateral ligament sprain than a broken clavicle.
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

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The 8 week timetable sure sounds like a fracture - whether or not it needs surgery. Won’t affect him long term but the timing certainly sucks for a young player who was coming on strong
 

brendan f

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It certainly stinks but the upshot is we were already WR heavy, and this might open up a spot for Lil' Jordan.
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

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Also, mid-October doesn’t sound so bad in terms of missed time in an NFL season if he actually returns then.
These heal up pretty reliably, should almost definitely be mid-October. And he’ll be able to do non-contact and route running stuff way before then
 

scottyno

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If they were to trade Bourne or Agholor now, and then someone else gets hurt, then they're all of a sudden really really thin at WR again. I think both stay unless they really really like Nixon or Humphrey.
 

ZMart100

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I agree about hedging for injury. I wouldn't trade anyone unless it's a player for player swap at a thin position until after the Raiders game.
 

koufax32

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These heal up pretty reliably, should almost definitely be mid-October. And he’ll be able to do non-contact and route running stuff way before then
Is a fracture like a dislocation in the sense that he’s not raising his hand above shoulder height any time soon?
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Also, mid-October doesn’t sound so bad in terms of missed time in an NFL season if he actually returns then.
Bigger issue is how this affects his development. Losing the majority of practice and game reps as a rookie can he devastating.
 

BigSoxFan

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What a bummer. One of the few offensive players I was looking forward to watching this year. Hope he can make some kind of impact later in the year.
 

Van Everyman

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Bigger issue is how this affects his development. Losing the majority of practice and game reps as a rookie can he devastating.
Agreed but this is where I wonder if the reported streamlining of the playcalling comes in. The Patriots’ offense under McDaniels always seemed stacked against guys coming in late to camp or arriving later in their careers after having played for years in another (presumably simpler) system.

No idea if it’s going to be any different this year but I do suspect part of the thought process was being able to integrate new guys into the system a little more smoothly and think that might help here (it’s possible it already has). I guess we’ll see.
 

RG33

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What a bummer. One of the few offensive players I was looking forward to watching this year. Hope he can make some kind of impact later in the year.
Really?

I’m pretty stoked to see if Mac and Rhamondre make the leaps that training camp buzz seems to indicate. I’m also intrigued to see if Agholor and Jonnu can bounce back from their mediocre-at-best first years to be impact players. Of course, seeing how Harris/Rhamondre adjust with the new zone blocking scheme will be of interest as well.
 

BigSoxFan

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Really?

I’m pretty stoked to see if Mac and Rhamondre make the leaps that training camp buzz seems to indicate. I’m also intrigued to see if Agholor and Jonnu can bounce back from their mediocre-at-best first years to be impact players. Of course, seeing how Harris/Rhamondre adjust with the new zone blocking scheme will be of interest as well.
Yes, really. The Pats skill position players are a giant bag of meh for me from an entertainment standpoint. Harris is solid and I don’t really expect much different from him. Rhamondre is on my list of interest - I think he has some untapped potential.

The WRs are all generally solid but unspectacular and I was looking forward to watching Thornton. The rest of the guys? Meh. We pretty know what they can or cannot do at this point. Parker is somewhat intriguing because he’s a new face but I’ve watched him a ton in Miami.

As for TEs, I expect Henry to be solid and Jonnu to be somewhat improved because it’d be hard not to top last year’s effort.
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

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Is a fracture like a dislocation in the sense that he’s not raising his hand above shoulder height any time soon?
If it’s non-displaced and doesn’t need surgery he’ll have mobility relatively quickly but he won’t be raising his arms to catch passes for at least four weeks
 

E5 Yaz

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To me, the bigger concern (one that was expressed by others earlier) is not so much his return from this injury, but rather this is the canary in the coal mine regarding what some saw as his slight frame being at risk of injury once things start getting real.

Will this be an outlier sparking needless concern, or will this be an indication that despite his abilities he won't be able to stand up to the physicality?
 

Nator

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This is disappointing. Thornton seems like he has the goods.

Maybe this is a wake-up call for Bourne to get his head out of his ass, and play up to his potential. He is one of those guys that doesn't seem to have any impressive measurables, but he and the football seem to find each other during crucial junctures of games.
 

phineas gage

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His rail-thin build is what scares me, like he's going to snap in two when he takes a hard hit. However, his college history belies this, as he started all games at Baylor except for his junior year when he was injured vs. TCU and missed 5-6 games. Does anyone know what that injury was? Also, from the video, this current injury seems to have occurred upon being slammed into the turf in a way that could have hurt a lot of guys.
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

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Thank you, Sir.

The $10 can go on E5’s tab.
If I took all the money you people owed me and invested it in bitcoin…. Well, never mind, that‘s a terrible hypothetical

As for the idea that Thornton is injury-prone - he has a thin frame, no doubt, but he was pretty durable at Baylor and fracturing a clavicle is not something that stands out to me as from being “injury-prone” - you fall the right way, you’re gonna break your clavicle. Being built like DK Metcalf won’t necessarily protect you from that. I may be wrong and he may never pan out because he gets injured a lot, but I’m not going to cross him off the list because of this injury
 

Harry Hooper

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As one point of comparison, Breer reported that DeVonta Smith came in at 6 feet and 166 pounds when examined by NFL docs before the draft in 2021

LINK
 

johnmd20

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If I took all the money you people owed me and invested it in bitcoin…. Well, never mind, that‘s a terrible hypothetical

As for the idea that Thornton is injury-prone - he has a thin frame, no doubt, but he was pretty durable at Baylor and fracturing a clavicle is not something that stands out to me as from being “injury-prone” - you fall the right way, you’re gonna break your clavicle. Being built like DK Metcalf won’t necessarily protect you from that. I may be wrong and he may never pan out because he gets injured a lot, but I’m not going to cross him off the list because of this injury
Depends on when you bought the Bitcoin. 2012 - 2015, and you're rich beyond your wildest dreams of avarice.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Yes, really. The Pats skill position players are a giant bag of meh for me from an entertainment standpoint. Harris is solid and I don’t really expect much different from him. Rhamondre is on my list of interest - I think he has some untapped potential.
Maybe this is just a semantic disagreement, but "solid" seems like quite an understatement when it comes to Harris. Career 4.8 yards per carry. Last year, 929 rushing yards and 15 TDs despite missing a game and sharing the backfield with Stevenson. I think he's the best rushing down back the Pats have had since Blount.
 

BigSoxFan

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Maybe this is just a semantic disagreement, but "solid" seems like quite an understatement when it comes to Harris. Career 4.8 yards per carry. Last year, 929 rushing yards and 15 TDs despite missing a game and sharing the backfield with Stevenson. I think he's the best rushing down back the Pats have had since Blount.
He's a one-dimensional back. I am fine calling him a very good runner. He clearly is. But he doesn't catch passes so I would downgrade his total grade to something along the lines of "solid" or "good". I very much like watching Harris run but Rhamondre could be the total package, if his gains in the passing game in camp are to believed. It's why I'm a little more intrigued about watching his development. But I do enjoy watching both of them. It's a really good combo and a seemingly underrated one at that with respect to national recognition.
 

IdiotKicker

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He's a one-dimensional back. I am fine calling him a very good runner. He clearly is. But he doesn't catch passes so I would downgrade his total grade to something along the lines of "solid" or "good". I very much like watching Harris run but Rhamondre could be the total package, if his gains in the passing game in camp are to believed. It's why I'm a little more intrigued about watching his development. But I do enjoy watching both of them. It's a really good combo and a seemingly underrated one at that with respect to national recognition.
One-dimensional is a bit harsh. A one-dimensional back is someone with one skill that defines them in the role. Antowain Smith was a one-dimensional back. He was big, strong, and slow. His only thing that defined him as an NFL back was his play strength.

Harris is big, fast, can run downhill, can cut back, can jump-cut, and has a ton of versatility as a runner. He may not be a pass-catching back, but I don't think of him as one-dimensional in any way, as I think that does a disservice to his skillset that allows him to gain yards in a number of different ways and schemes.
 

Saints Rest

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One aspect of the change away from Josh will be to see if the Pats get more multi-dimensional with their play calling around all of their top 3 backs.
Has Harris not shown anything in the passing game simply because he only got on the field in running situations?
I feel like the handful of times we’ve seen Harris catch a pass, he has looked more than capable. But I’m not evaluating those plays where Harris might be on field in passing situations and he doesn’t make the right play away from the ball.