Boutte isn't particularly close to being an NFL player. Even Douglas should be fighting for the 5th WR spot on a solid team, their WR room might be the worst positional group in the entire league, they need four guys better than what they currently have. Maybe Bourne could be WR4.View: https://twitter.com/Nate_Tice/status/1868727271068160261
The Boutte story was fun for a couple weeks.... he still stinks, and I'm not sure he makes this team next year.
I'd posted this in the Maye thread the other day, but bears repeating:Boutte isn't particularly close to being an NFL player. Even Douglas should be fighting for the 5th WR spot on a solid team, their WR room might be the worst positional group in the entire league, they need four guys better than what they currently have. Maybe Bourne could be WR4.
Yup. There's zero excuses for this sad sack of receiver crap we have on the roster. We have a QB who can make the throws... and we have a WR room full of guys who suck at most elements of the position.They regularly dress 4 WRs, at a time when we know our QB can throw "all the routes". This is high-order malfeasance.
It's akin to having a complete rotation made up of No. 6 startersYup. There's zero excuses for this sad sack of receiver crap we have on the roster. We have a QB who can make the throws... and we have a WR room full of guys who suck at most elements of the position.
I do like Douglas as a 4th/5th guy. That he leads the WRs in receptions is mind boggling.
We could cut all of them, replace them with 5 guys who are on other team's practice squads, and I doubt we'd notice much of a difference.
Just something else to add to pile of garbage that Wolf called a roster this season.
So true. With a rookie Catcher who is brilliant at calling a game and framing pitches.It's akin to having a complete rotation made up of No. 6 starters
What I recall is many people claiming that while the OL and receivers were awful, if Jones actually had talent he'd manage to show it even with a bad surrounding cast, as we're seeing with Maye now. Many died on the hill that it was simply impossible for any QB ever to display any modicum of ability with those receivers and linemen. I even recall Tom Brady being brought up in those discussions.To be fair, there were many who claimed that the Pats WR room was fine- that the problem was Jones, and everything would be fine with a competent QB.
I think CAR is an easy choice there... Only 4 WRs on guaranteed deals (Patriots had 2 rookies, Bourne, Juju, Douglas and Boutte) more return opportunities in CAR and a new offensive HC who loves to throw. Much better landing spotThe "miss" that really pisses me off is Jalen Coker. Standout from HC. If you can't scout free talent in your own backyard what are you doing? He was a SR. bowl standout who at min should have been a priority UDFA and is probably better than any NE receiver right now. You can't tell me he would have chosen CAR over NE if given a similar offer. CAR had traded for Dionte Johnson, traded up to select Legette and still had Thielen. Coker had great measurables but was obv green coming from a small school. Then again he probably doesn't fare as well under NE WR tutelage.
Could have drafted him late I suppose and avoided having to sign him as an UDFA. Not like Bell or Dial are integral parts of the future.I think CAR is an easy choice there... Only 4 WRs on guaranteed deals (Patriots had 2 rookies, Bourne, Juju, Douglas and Boutte) more return opportunities in CAR and a new offensive HC who loves to throw. Much better landing spot
I don't even think they attempted to sign him. He was interviewed prior to the draft and spent a good amount of time talking about how he was excited to help out on special teams, anything to help the team. Could have started him there till they confirmed JuJu was no more.Could have drafted him late I suppose and avoided having to sign him as an UDFA. Not like Bell or Dial are integral parts of the future.
I have no idea if they tried to sign him, but NE was going to be on the bottom of the list any UDFA's agent made. They had a ton of WRs and ST aces on guaranteed money and they drafted 2 WRs and a TE in the draft. There is zero reason he should have had any interest in them. The Patriots had to cut a bunch of WRs just to make the final roster, and that's with Bourne on PUP (which meant the last WR was always getting cut at some point). That was a terrible spot for an UDFA to come to, those guys want rosters that don't have guys on them, topheavy is best (3 established WRs for example then nothing, because those are the teams without guys with draft equity who are going to get the deep spots).I don't even think they attempted to sign him. He was interviewed prior to the draft and spent a good amount of time talking about how he was excited to help out on special teams, anything to help the team. Could have started him there till they confirmed JuJu was no more.
Instead NE appears to have whiffed yet again at WR in the draft.
I am a Bucs fan. Canales’s reputation is that he’s a run guy and that he’s incredibly stubborn about it. People were complaining all of last year about how he forced the run on 1st and 2nd down despite the fact they (the Bucs) were an awful running team.I think CAR is an easy choice there... Only 4 WRs on guaranteed deals (Patriots had 2 rookies, Bourne, Juju, Douglas and Boutte) more return opportunities in CAR and a new offensive HC who loves to throw. Much better landing spot
The 2023 Bucs had a top 10 PROE, so whatever he may philosophically say he wants.... he throws it a lot compared to expectation. Every team fanbase in the NFL thinks their OC calls too many 1st and 2nd down runs that don't work.I am a Bucs fan. Canales’s reputation is that he’s a run guy and that he’s incredibly stubborn about it. People were complaining all of last year about how he forced the run on 1st and 2nd down despite the fact they (the Bucs) were an awful running team.
hes a Carroll disciple. I don’t think he loves to throw at all (he may be forced into it but his preferred method is running)
They had very little draft capital and guaranteed $$ in the WR position though. The only one guaranteed to make the final roster was Pop and two unproven day two/three draft picks. CAR had Dionte Johnson, Thielen, Legette all with more guarantees at the time. Boutte was far from a lock as was Juju and Bourne was always expected to start on the PUP and there was no guarantee if/when he would return. Tyquan was also not guaranteed to make the roster.I have no idea if they tried to sign him, but NE was going to be on the bottom of the list any UDFA's agent made. They had a ton of WRs and ST aces on guaranteed money and they drafted 2 WRs and a TE in the draft. There is zero reason he should have had any interest in them. The Patriots had to cut a bunch of WRs just to make the final roster, and that's with Bourne on PUP (which meant the last WR was always getting cut at some point). That was a terrible spot for an UDFA to come to, those guys want rosters that don't have guys on them, topheavy is best (3 established WRs for example then nothing, because those are the teams without guys with draft equity who are going to get the deep spots).
I get everyone is worked up because our WRs are terrible, but.... not drafting a guy who didn't get drafted is not a real criticism, it's just whining that a binky went elsewhere.
They had Bourne, Polk, Baker, Osborn, Douglas all basically locks, they had a recent 2nd and recent 6th rounder (Thornton and Boute) as well as a returner (Reagor) and.... Juju who had a ton of dead money. That's 8 guys who were real roster threats, plus guys on futures.They had very little draft capital and guaranteed $$ in the WR position though. The only one guaranteed to make the final roster was Pop and two unproven day two/three draft picks. CAR had Dionte Johnson, Thielen, Legette all with more guarantees at the time. Boutte was far from a lock as was Juju and Bourne was always expected to start on the PUP and there was no guarantee if/when he would return. Tyquan was also not guaranteed to make the roster.
It is borderline comical to suggest the worst WR room in the NFL didn't have a need for more WR talent, especially when it was free.
If any team knows the value of late round/UDFA WR signings it is NE. They haven't drafted a successful WR in the 4th rd or higher since Deion Branch over 2 decades ago. Thanks for mentioning Mingo I had forgotten that recent 2nd rounder was also in CAR at the time. Coker wasn't a UDFA from Utah State. He played 45min away at HC. Multiple people that I follow had him graded as a late rd draft pick. NE had a significant scouting advantage given their proximity since there isn't a lot of all-22 available for HC games.They had Bourne, Polk, Baker, Osborn, Douglas all basically locks, they had a recent 2nd and recent 6th rounder (Thornton and Boute) as well as a returner (Reagor) and.... Juju who had a ton of dead money. That's 8 guys who were real roster threats, plus guys on futures.
Carolina had the 3 guys you mentioned, Marshall, Mingo and that was basically it, the rest of the roster was guys with no real contracts or draft capital... much easier to make that roster.
The Patriots could have used more talent it turns out... but they also had a ton of comparably thought of (or really more highly thought of) players fighting for roster spots, and Coker was an UDFA, we have no idea if the Patriots reached out (I'd bet they did), but CAR was clearly a MUCH easier roster to make.
An UDFA isn't looking at the top of the WR chart, he's looking at 5-7, CAR had much less competition for those spots in terms of guys the front office had commitment to either via money or draft picks spent.
But also... what are we doing here? It's an UDFA.... the pure definition of super-low probability shot in the dark moves. At no point should anyone be complaining about what UDFA weren't signed. Like the trade down instead of Ladd argument... sure that was a decision they made on a pretty high probability shot where they had total control.
All of this may be true but also not relevant to whether Car or NE was a better option for a UDFA WR.If any team knows the value of late round/UDFA WR signings it is NE. They haven't drafted a successful WR in the 4th rd or higher since Deion Branch over 2 decades ago. Thanks for mentioning Mingo I had forgotten that recent 2nd rounder was also in CAR at the time. Coker wasn't a UDFA from Utah State. He played 45min away at HC. Multiple people that I follow had him graded as a late rd draft pick. NE had a significant scouting advantage given their proximity since there isn't a lot of all-22 available for HC games.
I get it you will forever make excuses for NE as you consistently do. They have sucked at drafting WRs for 20 years, only getting extremely lucky on 6th, 7th rd and UDFA picks in that time plus a tiny amount of trades that worked out vast majority bombed as well. At some point we have to acknowledge the process is broken.
Except... None of that is relevant to my posts? I didn't argue the Patriots WRs are good, or that they were good evaluators. I pointed out that Coker has an agent, and any decent agent would steer him to CAR where it was a much clearer spot to getting and keeping a roster spot given the rosters.If any team knows the value of late round/UDFA WR signings it is NE. They haven't drafted a successful WR in the 4th rd or higher since Deion Branch over 2 decades ago. Thanks for mentioning Mingo I had forgotten that recent 2nd rounder was also in CAR at the time. Coker wasn't a UDFA from Utah State. He played 45min away at HC. Multiple people that I follow had him graded as a late rd draft pick. NE had a significant scouting advantage given their proximity since there isn't a lot of all-22 available for HC games.
I get it you will forever make excuses for NE as you consistently do. They have sucked at drafting WRs for 20 years, only getting extremely lucky on 6th, 7th rd and UDFA picks in that time plus a tiny amount of trades that worked out vast majority bombed as well. At some point we have to acknowledge the process is broken.
Would you rather have Theilen, Dionte Johnson, Mingo,Legette or Pop, JuJu, Bourne on IR, Boutte ( suspended for gambling), Polk and Baker?All of this may be true but also not relevant to whether Car or NE was a better option for a UDFA WR.
I think we all agree they need to do a better job of finding WR talent.
Your entire argument is a fallacy. You are claiming Coker chose CAR for reasons which are at best debatable. My argument is NE never made any sort of offer so Coker choosing CAR is irrelevant there wasn't another choice.Except... None of that is relevant to my posts? I didn't argue the Patriots WRs are good, or that they were good evaluators. I pointed out that Coker has an agent, and any decent agent would steer him to CAR where it was a much clearer spot to getting and keeping a roster spot given the rosters.
Except... You have no idea what offers he had. You starting at an assumption without any evidence. As to not scouting or showing interest.... They had him in for a pro-day and he met with the staff, so they certainly showed some interest in the draft process.Your entire argument is a fallacy. You are claiming Coker chose CAR for reasons which are at best debatable. My argument is NE never made any sort of offer so Coker choosing CAR is irrelevant there wasn't another choice.
My point was it was a miss not to have scouted or shown some level of interest in a local kid at a position of need. I don't care if he went to the 49ers or Rams, NE wasn't considered because they weren't interested. The failure was not identifying a potential asset they had very easy access to, not that they had a loaded WR room that prevented them from acquiring a desired target. The latter part is a made up excuse.
I don't know if NE tried to sign him and @Cellar-Door specifically said "I have no idea if they tried to sign him"I'm not faulting them for missing, I'm faulting them for not trying.
There were certainly reasons to choose CAR but none of knows what offer, if any, NE gave him.You can't tell me he would have chosen CAR over NE if given a similar offer.
You parsed out a hypothetical throw away line. Give me a break.I don't know if NE tried to sign him and @Cellar-Door specifically said "I have no idea if they tried to sign him"
Here's your actual quote that caused the pushback about who Coker might have preferred:
There were certainly reasons to choose CAR but none of knows what offer, if any, NE gave him.
whatever. It is what you argued and I wasn't the one who pointed out why Carolina might be preferable. Not others fault for taking what you say at face value.You parsed out a hypothetical throw away line. Give me a break.
You and Cellar missed the forest through the trees. My primary point wasn't that NE was a more desirable destination for CAR though that is certainly debatable. The point was they had a potential gem 45 min away and didn't seem to put much effort into scouting him. CAR clearly wanted him, they gave him one of the highest UDFA contracts last off-season which is paying off in spades. They either didn't put the effort in or didn't like what they saw. Either way they missed out on someone right under their nose.whatever. It is what you argued and I wasn't the one who pointed out why Carolina might be preferable. Not others fault for taking what you say at face value.
Maybe you should try slowing down and fully read posts instead of arguing a point nobody has made. Up to you
Id still claim him. He is a diva but he gets open. Might answer some question if its the line limiting WRsThe Patriots should 100% claim Diontae Johnson.
EDIT- Didnt realize he is an UFA after this year. Less Bullish
Why would we expect a guy who was a jerk and miserable in Baltimore to ever show up in Foxboro if we claimed him?The Patriots should 100% claim Diontae Johnson.
EDIT- Didnt realize he is an UFA after this year. Less Bullish
Yeah, I actually think it would be a terrible idea to pick up Diontae. Diontae would be a rental for a team that has 0 shot of making the playoffs. Pats have a young WR room and it seems like Diontae has a pretty big attitude problem.Why would we expect a guy who was a jerk and miserable in Baltimore to ever show up in Foxboro if we claimed him?
He was a jerk because he wasn’t used. That shouldn’t be a problem for us.Why would we expect a guy who was a jerk and miserable in Baltimore to ever show up in Foxboro if we claimed him?
Well I think that’s what Polk was supposed to be. Whiffed miserably obviously but a WR drafted top 40 is a guy you hope to be real talent.Why can't this team actually try to find talent as opposed to picking up the garbage cast off from 3 separate teams?
Mayo is clearly coaching to save his job, as any youth movement went out the window after the 1 week benching of Bourne. If Polk is smart, he'll get injured in practice and hang around for 3+ years like Thornton on promise/sunk costs alone.Polk had been averaging 32 snaps a game. Yesterday he got 3. Baker got 8. Obviously neither had a catch.
COMMUNITY NOTE: He was on IR, not benched.Mayo is clearly coaching to save his job, as any youth movement went out the window after the 1 week benching of Bourne. If Polk is smart, he'll get injured in practice and hang around for 3+ years like Thornton on promise/sunk costs alone.
Weird because we heard the young guys were going to get MORE reps and Polk gets his fewest of the year. I did see Baker had a target but Maye overthrew him (may have actually been throwing it away as Baker wasn't open).Polk had been averaging 32 snaps a game. Yesterday he got 3. Baker got 8. Obviously neither had a catch.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverthomas/2024/11/18/kendrick-bourne-puts-benching-behind-him-to-lead-patriots-passing-game/COMMUNITY NOTE: He was on IR, not benched.
You know what--I misread his post and thought he said "week 1" not "1 week".