I don’t agree with NextBigTning on basically anything…..but McMillan was the #2 over Polk when he was healthy. Polk took over the role because of health and performed very well
Patriots WRs
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Yes, he won the number two job last season. Polk was the number two after the season began and it wasn't like McMillan got the job back.
I will admit that this is a silly thing to worry about but Polk's performance thus far speaks for itself. Claiming the dude was a #3 WR to make a point when that isn't an accurate statement needs to be highlighted. If people are trying to misrepresent things in the service of yet another post complaining about how badly the team is run, that needs to be called out.
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Reiss with a couple of receiver-related notes this morning:
2. Polk's new place: Rookie receiver Ja'Lynn Polk, the second-round pick who has struggled to emerge, has a new home in the locker room. His stall is now next to veteran receiver Kendrick Bourne, as he takes over Tyquan Thornton's old spot.
"It's like Jacoby [Brissett] being next to Drake [Maye], the vet and the rookie, and it's kind of the same thing here," said Bourne, now in his eighth NFL season. "To be close to him, I'm going to keep encouraging him, speaking gems to him, speaking life into him. I don't know if they do it on purpose, but things happen like they're supposed to happen."
3. WR detail: One area to watch Sunday is if Maye gets more support from his pass-catchers in critical situations when it comes to attention to detail. In last Sunday's loss to the Dolphins, it looked like Maye threw behind receiver DeMario Douglas on a critical third-and-9 play, but Van Pelt shared that Douglas' route was supposed to be run at 5 yards and not 3. And later on an unsuccessful fourth-and-4 throw to Bourne along the sideline, Bourne acknowledged his route wasn't precise enough.
The plays and follow-up comments served up a reminder that what often looks like an error by the quarterback isn't always the case. "It comes down to route running," Bourne said.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/42684881/how-concerned-patriots-drake-maye-turnover-problem
2. Polk's new place: Rookie receiver Ja'Lynn Polk, the second-round pick who has struggled to emerge, has a new home in the locker room. His stall is now next to veteran receiver Kendrick Bourne, as he takes over Tyquan Thornton's old spot.
"It's like Jacoby [Brissett] being next to Drake [Maye], the vet and the rookie, and it's kind of the same thing here," said Bourne, now in his eighth NFL season. "To be close to him, I'm going to keep encouraging him, speaking gems to him, speaking life into him. I don't know if they do it on purpose, but things happen like they're supposed to happen."
3. WR detail: One area to watch Sunday is if Maye gets more support from his pass-catchers in critical situations when it comes to attention to detail. In last Sunday's loss to the Dolphins, it looked like Maye threw behind receiver DeMario Douglas on a critical third-and-9 play, but Van Pelt shared that Douglas' route was supposed to be run at 5 yards and not 3. And later on an unsuccessful fourth-and-4 throw to Bourne along the sideline, Bourne acknowledged his route wasn't precise enough.
The plays and follow-up comments served up a reminder that what often looks like an error by the quarterback isn't always the case. "It comes down to route running," Bourne said.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/42684881/how-concerned-patriots-drake-maye-turnover-problem
The season Hunter Henry is having this year is going to be one of the more effective sales pitches the Pats can make to free agent receivers in a few months
The two seasons before this one Henry put up fewer counting stats than he had in any season since his rookie year. This year he might put up career highs. The difference has nothing to do with Henry changing or getting better. It's 100% having Drake Maye making you look good.
Receivers in the NFL look good to casual fans and get paid based on counting stats. Playing with a QB like Maye will get you paid. There will be people out there who will want that opportunity.
The two seasons before this one Henry put up fewer counting stats than he had in any season since his rookie year. This year he might put up career highs. The difference has nothing to do with Henry changing or getting better. It's 100% having Drake Maye making you look good.
Receivers in the NFL look good to casual fans and get paid based on counting stats. Playing with a QB like Maye will get you paid. There will be people out there who will want that opportunity.
I would caution against getting too worked up about a GM after 1 year. Beyond that most of their rookies you don't really know about yet... a lot of GMs have a rough 1st year, even some of the best,...
Howie Roseman... his 1st draft he hit on his 1st, his 2nd was a decent player (they let him walk after his rookie deal), his 3rd rounder got cut year 1, he whiffed on 4 picks in the 4th, nothing much after.
Gutenkust... his 1st rounder was good, his 2nd was off the team after 3 years, his 3rd rounder didn't really get off ST, 4th busted out completely
Ballard (considered a great drafter)... A decent safety in the 1st, whiffed on the 2nd, whiffed on the 3rd (waived in his 2nd year), 4th got waived before his 1st season, other 4th was a backup RB.
Guys need a little time to get their feet wet, being a GM is a multi-year timeline. Nailing your early 1st is a good start.
But the rest of that draft looks awful, and Maye at 3 was literally the no-brainer pick. They didn't even have a choice as Daniels was taken at 2. Polk is exactly the draft bust that Harry was, and that more than anything else shows a huge problem in their analysis/scouting.
The team acted all offseason that with the grumpy old man gone, the scouts and GM could finally correct all of his mistakes, and in their first year they've shown themselves to be even worse at player evaluation and drafting.
it seems like the results you list aren’t really outside the norm for what you’d consider pretty normal or one deviation from normal (i.e. variance). It’s not like good GM’s don’t whiff in the draft all the time (Roseman taking Reagor right ahead of Justin Jefferson, both he and Ozzie Newsome had plenty of big misses)
but I think there’s a difference between being a new GM from outside the building, where your first draft is often based on your predecessor’s work/scouts/etc. Just like BB’s 2000 draft was largely using Grier and his scouts’ work.
Groh and Wolf have been in New England for a few years obviously. There should really be no transition or excuses for why he’d need a year to settle in.
as it is, one awful draft - redeemed anyway since Maye looks good - isn’t a good reason to be down on a GM
the fact that he did absolutely nothing else to improve the roster is. Over 21M spent on Okorafor, Osborn, Leverett, Watts, Hawkins, Takitaki, Gibson, Hooper and Slye with almost no help from those guys. Gibson has been good albeit underutilized. Slye and Hooper have played their roles fine. But 3 of those guys are gone and one is a healthy scratch. Brissett was a good move for a one year deal so he deserves credit for that. QB was handled very well (including shipping out Jones and Zappe). He totally botched WR, OL and the entire defense though.
then look at his strategy with re-signings. Are we thinking the Peppers, Dugger, Bourne, Stevenson and Godchaux re-signing/extensions are all money well spent or indicative of good player evaluation? Keeping Barmore is great. Onwenu, fine although weird to seemingly not have a dedicated postion in mind for him. Henry, good deal I’d say.
they spent a good chunk of money externally and internally and a huge portion of that money as well as most of those roster spots seem very questionable.
it’s hard to inherit a 4 win team and fail so miserably to improve the roster at least around the edges, but I think that you could argue that outside of QB, the rest of the roster is (in aggregate) worse off now than it was last year. He got lucky Maye dropped into his lap. He failed the other 50 or so roster spots.
Yeah some people note it in the comments, that is a mesh concept, they're trying to get Boutte isolated on that LB (which also may open a running lane for Maye). Daniels response is it takes too long, but... that seems perfectly fine? The Colts dropped 7, everything is going to be covered at the snap, you need to create options there and given a 4 man rush should have plenty of time for it to develop and Maye to move the pocket.
View: https://twitter.com/Boorish_Sports/status/1863583951572324529
So also Bourne didn't finish his route, so yeah, it seems like a fine call, they mesh, Boutte goes right against a LB, Bourne right and Henry sits in the hole.
View: https://twitter.com/Boorish_Sports/status/1863583951572324529
So also Bourne didn't finish his route, so yeah, it seems like a fine call, they mesh, Boutte goes right against a LB, Bourne right and Henry sits in the hole.
Here is a better clip of that play. Looks like Bourne sits down when he should have continued his route but the overall play call leaves a lot to be desired. They are running a slow developing mesh vs. what is clearly zone from the team that plays the highest amount of zone in NFL.
View: https://twitter.com/tkyles39/status/1863572576389194126
Yeah, perhaps the play call could have been better, but it's a bad job by the media guy for not explaining that the issues isn't play design, which is what he seems to be insinuating.
Same thing happened on the TD. Polk and Hooper ended up in basically the same spot. There’s less reason of that happening from the 20 than from the 5, but Maye made a perfect toss and avoided all the defenders anyway.
Pretty good chance Polk fucked that up, though. That’s just my assumption at this point.
Pretty good chance Polk fucked that up, though. That’s just my assumption at this point.
That's funny, my immediate reaction in real time was that Maye was throwing to Polk-- who was already in the corner of the end zone-- and Hooper ran into the play and went for the ball. Good outcome, either way.
Of course, no way to know from the other side of the teevee
Yeah, I think that was supposed to be a back shoulder throw to Polk. Watch the replay, and Maye looks off Gibson in right flat then throws to where Polk is stopping. He doesn't seem to glance anywhere else.
Of course it's also possible Polk was supposed to carry his defenders further into end zone, with Hooper running into the space created.
Of course it's also possible Polk was supposed to carry his defenders further into end zone, with Hooper running into the space created.
Following up on the point about letting the kids play, I hope they go this route too---take the reins off Maye and just see what happens
It’s time to stop viewing Drake Maye as a rookie QB and put the game in his hands
It’s time to stop viewing Drake Maye as a rookie QB and put the game in his hands
Getting into field goal position (sorta) in 12 seconds was pretty impressive. That’s Mahomes/Allen kinda stuff.
And that included Henry dropping a very catchable ball on first down, not a gimme but a ball he catches a decent amount of the time. I think Slye makes the FG from 65, he was very, very close to hitting from 68.
I kinda think its your 2nd option which is the only way to explain Hooper's route. OTOH, its hard to tell sometimes with these guys
To me it looks like Polk gets slowed down a bit by a handsy defender, but is running to then break back to the pylon, Hooper is underneath but starts drifting on his route. Maye throws a ball that Hooper can now jump and get because he drifted, but might actually have been intended to be a low ball at the pylon that Polk can sheild the defender with his body and catch.
Tom Curran or Phil Perry stated confidently that Polk was supposed to keep running to the back corner to clear out space for Hooper. Idk if that’s something they were told or if they’re also just guessing though
Yeah, there's no timing issue, they just ran mesh into a zone, so the mesh runners themselves won't be immediately available as primary receivers in the concept.
Shefty: Pats waving KJ Osborn
He's going to try to get more playing time on another team, but if he can't get it here, who's going to give it to him?
Another one of Wolf's failed moves.
He's going to try to get more playing time on another team, but if he can't get it here, who's going to give it to him?
Another one of Wolf's failed moves.
One of the teams that gets more out of their WRs... back to MIN, to KC who turned JuJu into a playable WR, etc. Osborn is riding the bench as much because we want to see what the young guys under contract have for next year as for his performance.
7 receptions for 57 yards. Very impressive. Gives the team more time to evaluate Polk (12 receptions, 87 yards) and Baker (0 / 0).
As the great @Super Nomario would say (and he’d say this better than I can possibly write it): there are no such things as high floor prospects. That was my take on Polk too though. If and only if he hits he is a high floor guy. A solid WR2 type who in a really good year could crack top 20 in yards. I had separation concerns and route running concerns. He was so inconsistent there.
Edit: even then that’s a bad way for me to frame it. Maybe it is: if he is a hit you would expect someone with his profile to be a WR2 in the NFL. And even then in hindsight… he was an older breakout player who was the third receiver on his team who was a decent athlete but nothing special. His route running and separation were nothing particularly special either. He was my WR15?
Unless they failed Ladd for health concerns. Ladd might not stay healthy in the NFL. Too early to say. But yeah I had Ladd over him by a lot.
My comp for him was what Doubs has become, a strong possession receiver who can make plays in traffic but isn't flashy just gets what is there. Thought he'd be a lot more physical but at best a WR3. Key contributor on 3rd and med.
Last year, the wide receiver coach was Troy Brown. I think we all agreed that the WR‘s were really very poor last year, lots of lazy route running etc. This year, maybe unfair to tag the wide receivers coach with poor performance given it’s the first year in a new system and maybe hard to separate poor performance from lack of talent. This year‘s WR coach is Tyler Hughes. He is at least a professional coach, had a short stint at U Washington last year, but had been with the Patriots since 2019 before that.
Yeah that’s fair too. Either way that’s a strange profile to take at pick 37, right? To me that’s more of a later 2 to 3rd round guy. Polk as a mid or early 2 seemed rich. It makes me worried about them going forward too. I just don’t know if the guys who helped pick TT and Polk in round 2 know what they are doing. I sincerely think I could pick WRs better than they could.
Wolfe, et al. and anyone who works in NE and has anything to do with drafting WR needs to be launched into the sun. They've failed at this for more than a decade; you'd think they would get at least one right in that time period. Not sure if they have that BB "we're smarter than everyone else" mentality or not, but if they just went with the consensus best WR once or twice they'd be in a better position.
You all need to slow down plenty of WRs have sucked year one and turned it around. Old article but still true even though it’s changed a lot since 2005
https://www.espn.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2228242
https://www.espn.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2228242
Polk is in the territory where it is hard to find recent WRs who have struggled this much as rookies and gone on to be useful at all.
Yeah, few rookies struggle like this. The classic go to is Adams though, who was terrible despite pretty significant targets his first 2 years then became a superstar. Alshon Jeffery had a really bad rookie year,
DJ Chark is an interesting one, he had 174 yards as a rookie, then 1000 year 2 (then got hurt a bunch and tanked).
Mike Williams is maybe the worst rookie year.... 95 yards in 10 games.
I’m still optimistic, but somehow the Pats bring out my sunnier side (probably because I went through soooo many shambolic years as a young person).
His big problem to this point is hands and he arrived with a reputation for solid catch skills. Not to go all armchair psychologist, but what the hell else do we do on a message board
but his mouth wrote checks his body couldn’t cash.I think with an offseason with some mental floss could do wonders. He might also look better lining up across from a real No1 receiver to complement a solid TE, but agree that’s not going to help his hands.
I wish hands were his only issue. He's not getting a lot of targets, which tells me he's not getting open, and he's not making any plays, either. His catch rate is under 40%, which is hideous, but he's also averaging only 7.3 yards per catch, which means he's not generating plays either. It's one thing to be Boutte bad and drop one now and again but also nab the occasional 25-yarder. Polk's longest catch is 21 yards, and he only has one(!) other catch of more than 10. Maybe worst of all is that his production really fell off once Maye took over. There was the odd flash with Brissett.I’m still optimistic, but somehow the Pats bring out my sunnier side (probably because I went through soooo many shambolic years as a young person).
His big problem to this point is hands and he arrived with a reputation for solid catch skills. Not to go all armchair psychologist, but what the hell else do we do on a message board
I think with an offseason with some mental floss could do wonders. He might also look better lining up across from a real No1 receiver to complement a solid TE, but agree that’s not going to help his hands.
he couldn’t get open on his own in college either. His footwork and understanding of technique is pretty bad and his physical attributes aren’t good enough to beat pro CB
he stunk in college against man coverage, the only success he had against man was against guys who were #2 or 3 guys at bad schools (guys who aren’t even good enough to get an NFL camp invite as an undrafted tryout)
he did almost all his damage in college against zone when he could be schemed open. Playing alongside Odunze and McMillan he was able to find favorable matchups and openings in the D.
he needs to go to a team like Miami or LA Rams where he can be a #3 with a smart and creative offensive mind who can scheme him open.
He’s not big, he’s not fast, his release is pretty bad, he isn’t shifty. His big selling point is good hands over the middle and taking big hits and hanging onto the ball. We haven’t seen that (the opposite actually) but he needs someone who can get him open over the middle because that’s just about the only value he has in the pros. He’s a terrible fit for the Pats as the team is currently coached/constructed
Kicking around in my mind whether or not Antonio Gibson is the best slot receiver on the roster...
Feels like Douglas has regressed from last year, at least in productivity.
Yea? You may be right, but if so I haven't picked up on it.
I mean, I'm not a defender of the current college talent evaluators on the team but I've been thinking that Pop has been a really successful 6th round pick...
FWIW my comment was a little tongue-in-cheek but more in reaction to how good Gibson looked yesterday at finding daylight in the middle of a lot of traffic. Some of our struggling receivers could benefit from the kind of burst and acceleration Gibson has when he changes direction.
View: https://twitter.com/Nate_Tice/status/1868727271068160261
The Boutte story was fun for a couple weeks.... he still stinks, and I'm not sure he makes this team next year.
The Boutte story was fun for a couple weeks.... he still stinks, and I'm not sure he makes this team next year.
Not seeing this.
Same number of games, targets down slightly, but catches are up. Success rate up as well. What're you seeing?
Clearly there's been no big leap, but his time with Maye works out to about 70 catches, 730 yards over a season. We'd be ecstatic if Polk did that.