Pats Depth Chart: an Early Look

Cellar-Door

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Ferm Sheller said:
But the one on the PS would have to be someone other than Hoyer or Stidham, correct? Maybe Dolegala comes back?
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new CBA you can have 2 players on the PS with any number of years experience, so they could add either once they cleared waivers.

jsinger121 said:
Cam has 3 million guaranteed that’s all. Zolak thinks that Hoyer coming in might be a bad sign for Cam. He said Hoyer isn’t coming into work with Cam. He’s coming in to work with the two young kids. If Cam had 14 million guaranteed then he’s a roster lock but he doesn’t have that.
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Zolak is just telling the story that gets attention, his audience wants to hear the idea that the new draftee is going to be so good he starts right away, and the guy who was part of a disappointing season will get cut.
The Patriots aren't cutting a guy they started all last year for two guys who couldn't handle a single game as his backups to save basically no money. It would make no sense. If they had signed a real QB I'd buy it maybe.
 
jsinger121

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Cellar-Door said:
new CBA you can have 2 players on the PS with any number of years experience, so they could add either once they cleared waivers.


Zolak is just telling the story that gets attention, his audience wants to hear the idea that the new draftee is going to be so good he starts right away, and the guy who was part of a disappointing season will get cut.
The Patriots aren't cutting a guy they started all last year for two guys who couldn't handle a single game as his backups to save basically no money. It would make no sense. If they had signed a real QB I'd buy it maybe.
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Let me ask you this. Should Mac Jones win the job do you think that Cam Newton will want to stay around as a backup because frankly I don’t. If Mac Jones is better than Cam Newton is probably gone as BB will do him a solid to try to find another job.
 
lexrageorge

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Belichick had no difficulty naming Drew Bledsoe his #2. In the still unlikely event that Mac Jones beats out Cam for the starting job in training camp, Cam will either be traded or be named the backup.
 
tims4wins

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lexrageorge said:
Belichick had no difficulty naming Drew Bledsoe his #2. In the still unlikely event that Mac Jones beats out Cam for the starting job in training camp, Cam will either be traded or be named the backup.
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Much different circumstances as Drew was not healthy until Thanksgiving. He couldn’t be traded even if they were fully confident in Brady.
 
lexrageorge

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tims4wins said:
Much different circumstances as Drew was not healthy until Thanksgiving. He couldn’t be traded even if they were fully confident in Brady.
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My best guess is that if Cam looks good in training camp, but is surpassed by Jones, he would probably be traded. If he struggles badly, he would be cut early enough to try to get a job with another team. If he's just OK, Bill may try to talk him into sticking around as the #2.
 
tims4wins

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lexrageorge said:
My best guess is that if Cam looks good in training camp, but is surpassed by Jones, he would probably be traded. If he struggles badly, he would be cut early enough to try to get a job with another team. If he's just OK, Bill may try to talk him into sticking around as the #2.
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I agree they may trade him if Mac beats him out.
 
BaseballJones

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jsinger121 said:
Let me ask you this. Should Mac Jones win the job do you think that Cam Newton will want to stay around as a backup because frankly I don’t. If Mac Jones is better than Cam Newton is probably gone as BB will do him a solid to try to find another job.
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If Cam struggles, what other team will want him as their starter? If nobody would, then why not just stay with the Patriots and play for a coach that you know at least loves you?

If Cam plays well and Mac just blows everyone away and simply takes the job from Cam, then obviously we as Pats fans will be THRILLED, and yeah, in that scenario I could see Cam getting moved to a team that might need a starter for some reason.
 
BigJimEd

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To where? For what? There didn't seem to be much interest in Cam in the offseason, who's going to be looking for him at that point with little to no camp left? I'm not sure there would be better options available for a possibility to start than NE even in the unlikely case Jones wins the starting job in camp.
 
Cellar-Door

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jsinger121 said:
Let me ask you this. Should Mac Jones win the job do you think that Cam Newton will want to stay around as a backup because frankly I don’t. If Mac Jones is better than Cam Newton is probably gone as BB will do him a solid to try to find another job.
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I don't think BB would cut his only NFL player at a position because he wants to do him a favor.
 
Bowhemian

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Cellar-Door said:
I don't think BB would cut his only NFL player at a position because he wants to do him a favor.
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Not only that, but doesn't Cam have a large dead cap hit? I ask only because I looked it up, and if I understand it correctly (about 3% chance of that), he has a dead cap hit of $5.5 million.
Source
 
Deathofthebambino

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BigJimEd said:
To where? For what? There didn't seem to be much interest in Cam in the offseason, who's going to be looking for him at that point with little to no camp left? I'm not sure there would be better options available for a possibility to start than NE even in the unlikely case Jones wins the starting job in camp.
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Yeah, I'm not sure I even understand the conversation. If Cam Newton had other options, he wouldn't be playing for 3mm guaranteed for the Pats this year. Nobody wanted him in the off season, and if he loses his job to Mac Jones, less than nobody will want him during the season. I don't even know why or what teams would take him mid-season, just to open themselves up to a QB controversy. The only way he gets traded is if some team loses their starter and backup to injuries, and Michael Bishop refuses to come out of retirement.
 
ZMart100

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Hoyer isn't getting paid like they expect him to be on the roster. I think he's there for camp and will probably be told to wait by the phone in case there are two season ending injuries at QB.
 
Over Guapo Grande

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ZMart100 said:
Hoyer isn't getting paid like they expect him to be on the roster. I think he's there for camp and will probably be told to wait by the phone in case there are two season ending injuries at QB.
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Yah, I saw this not as a wakeup call, but a way to get a second "qb coach" in. Someone who knows the system. Someone who can teach/work with Mac. In the meantime, he gets to get / see some reps in Training Camp, so if glass is broken in case of emergency, he is coming in with some sort of basic knowledge.
 
54thMA

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ZMart100 said:
Hoyer isn't getting paid like they expect him to be on the roster. I think he's there for camp and will probably be told to wait by the phone in case there are two season ending injuries at QB.
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God forbid.

He sucks, he's several notches below replacement level, that performance vs the Chiefs was embarrassingly bad, one of the worst QB efforts I've ever seen.

Anyone shitting on Cam for his performance last year when the two options were a young guy is was not ready and an over the hill guy who was a tire fire needs to get a grip.

Leading that horrible collection of talent on the offensive side of the ball to 7 wins was a miracle, they were a yard away from winning vs Seattle and inside the red zone vs the Bills before Cam fumbled.

Considering he had no camp, no preseason games, was coming off an injury and had to learn a whole new offense, I think he did ok.

Is his arm totally shot?

I guess we'll find out.
 
8slim

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Deathofthebambino said:
Yeah, I'm not sure I even understand the conversation. If Cam Newton had other options, he wouldn't be playing for 3mm guaranteed for the Pats this year. Nobody wanted him in the off season, and if he loses his job to Mac Jones, less than nobody will want him during the season. I don't even know why or what teams would take him mid-season, just to open themselves up to a QB controversy. The only way he gets traded is if some team loses their starter and backup to injuries, and Michael Bishop refuses to come out of retirement.
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Quality Michael Bishop reference. Nicely done.

FWIW, I could absolutely see Cam being the backup QB if Jones wins the job in camp. Hell, at that point a Jones injury or awful performance would be Cam’s best chance at getting a starting gig. He sure ain’t getting one anywhere if Mac beats him out in camp as a rookie.
 
OurF'ingCity

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8slim said:
FWIW, I could absolutely see Cam being the backup QB if Jones wins the job in camp. Hell, at that point a Jones injury or awful performance would be Cam’s best chance at getting a starting gig. He sure ain’t getting one anywhere if Mac beats him out in camp as a rookie.
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Same. There is, IMO, roughly a zero percent chance of Cam being traded or released this season. Even if Mac Jones is amazing right from the get-go, Cam is a helluva better backup than either Stidham or Hoyer, neither of whom are really legitimate NFL players at this point. Plus, I suspect that even if Jones takes the starting role at some point and Cam is healthy, they will use Cam in a Taysom Hill-like role, in certain goal-line sets, etc. Point is, Cam still does certain things well and there is no real reason to get rid of him in favor of Hoyer or Stidham, neither of whom do anything well at all.
 
bsj

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8slim said:
Quality Michael Bishop reference. Nicely done.

FWIW, I could absolutely see Cam being the backup QB if Jones wins the job in camp. Hell, at that point a Jones injury or awful performance would be Cam’s best chance at getting a starting gig. He sure ain’t getting one anywhere if Mac beats him out in camp as a rookie.
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If Mac somehow were to start, I think the Pats would have a LOT of plays for Cam and we would see many 2 QB sets a la Tay Hill and the Saints.
 
ZMart100

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bsj said:
If Mac somehow were to start, I think the Pats would have a LOT of plays for Cam and we would see many 2 QB sets a la Tay Hill and the Saints.
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That would surprise me. If you have a rookie QB how much time do you really want to spend working on gadget plays? Spend the scarce practice time honing the base offense against a variety of looks. Cam isn't the runner a RB is and I wouldn't want to play 9 v 11 with him throwing very often. Maybe they could go 2 QB for one or two plays to see if they can confuse a team, but not a full package.
 
RG33

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DJnVa said:
I know new threads are good, but I don't want to jinx anything, so I'm putting this here. Perhaps a breakout will be warranted soon.

View: https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/1396142137922793472


He adds that he does not know how serious those discussions were.
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As The Athletic proffered, It makes sense for both teams. Atlanta needs to clear cap space to sign their draft class and Julio drops to only a $7.5m cap hit after June 1st. They suggest a Harry + conditional 3rd that turns into a 2nd depending upon Julio’s games played etc. I think I would do that in a heartbeat.

https://theathletic.com/2603064/2021/05/21/julio-jones-trade-offer-simulation-can-49ers-patriots-or-ravens-pry-him-from-falcons/

The Atlanta Falcons are at a crossroads with Julio Jones. Terry Fontenot has said since he took over as general manager that he would answer calls regarding the trade of any player. But as June 1 — the date after which Atlanta can trade Jones and emerge with a dead-cap hit of only $7.75 million — creeps closer and the Falcons still sit about $7-8 million short of salary cap room to sign their draft class, a potential trade of Jones becomes more realistic.
The Athletic’s Jeff Schultz reported the Falcons consider only two players as potential options to solve their salary cap woes: Grady Jarrett (which would likely involve a restructured deal) or Jones (whose most likely scenario would be a trade).
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Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Assuming we just took his present contract, it looks like it would be 15.3m in 2021, 11.5m in 2022 and 2023.

Taking the age 32-34 seasons of a WR is pretty scary but if the cost is fairly moderate (a 3rd plus Harry sounds right, a 2nd plus Harry feels like too much) then I like this move. There's no dead cap at all so there really isn't a lot of risk. And if we can pay partly with Harry, even better.
 
Saints Rest

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Assuming we just took his present contract, it looks like it would be 15.3m in 2021, 11.5m in 2022 and 2023.

Taking the age 32-34 seasons of a WR is pretty scary but if the cost is fairly moderate (a 3rd plus Harry sounds right, a 2nd plus Harry feels like too much) then I like this move. There's no dead cap at all so there really isn't a lot of risk. And if we can pay partly with Harry, even better.
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A third that bumps to a second for something like 1000yds would be well worth it
 
DJnVa

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Saints Rest said:
A third that bumps to a second for something like 1000yds would be well worth it
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I could be wrong, but I thought conditional picks could only be for playing time, not stats. Am I misremembering?

Either way, point holds--conditional on playing 14 games or something.
 
Captaincoop

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Hightower hasn't been seen at workouts. He's also gone silent on social media.

Too early to wonder whether Bill has gone full Michael Corleone on all the opt-out guys? Have a feeling he probably didn't love them walking away last year, despite what he said publicly.
 
RedOctober3829

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Captaincoop said:
Hightower hasn't been seen at workouts. He's also gone silent on social media.

Too early to wonder whether Bill has gone full Michael Corleone on all the opt-out guys? Have a feeling he probably didn't love them walking away last year, despite what he said publicly.
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He just got married over the weekend, so that explains his absence. He's been in meetings in Foxboro beforehand.
 
C

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This could help with the planning if the NFL hits the targets to go to the higher end of the ceiling.

View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1397622254280839170?s=20


That’s much higher than anticipated. The #Patriots would have roughly $30 million in space next year if they hit that ceiling. Do have some big free agents, though (Gilmore, JC Jackson, Devin McCourty, Hightower).

which is in response to this

The NFL and NFLPA have agreed to a $208.2 million salary cap ceiling for 2022, per source. There is no cap floor as of now. The sides agreed last August to spread the COVID-related revenue shortfall from 2020 over several years, and the cap dropped to $182.5M this year.
 
SeoulSoxFan

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FB Dan Vitale is released and yet another TE joins the roster:

https://985thesportshub.com/2021/05/27/patriots-sign-tight-end-release-fullback-ahead-of-first-public-ota-practice/

"Just after the start of Bill Belichick’s first video conference of OTAs on Thursday, Jim McBride of the Boston Globe reported that the Patriots have made a pair of minor transactions. They have signed tight end Troy Fumagalli and released fullback Dan Vitale.

Fumagalli was most recently with the Denver Broncos in 2020. Drafted in the fifth round of the 2018 NFL Draft, Fumagalli played 11 games (five starts) in 2019 and eight games last season. He has 14 total touches for 118 yards from scrimmage in two seasons on the Broncos’ active roster, playing 291 offensive snaps and 147 on special teams.

Vitale never played for the Patriots after signing in 2020. He was one of eight Patriots played who opted out of the season amid COVID-19 concerns."

A 4-TE set just may be back, y'all.
 
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