Pats Draft Rd.2/38: DI Christian Barmore
- Thread starter SeoulSoxFan
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Beast in training. This pick might have been a home run.
View: https://twitter.com/tkyles39/status/1458109704874323970?s=21
View: https://twitter.com/tkyles39/status/1458109704874323970?s=21
Ridiculous power an explosiveness. This kid is the kind of DT I've been wishing for them to get for a decade now.
His measurables are similar to Richard Seymour. Barmore is 6’4 while Seymour was 6’6. Barmore is 310 while Seymour was 317. It’s entirely possible he gives a rookie year Richard Seymour type impact.
Imagine drafting a Richard Seymour in the second round.
They may not be exactly the same player, but they are similar in impact. The Patriots have drafted some very good defensive linemen during the dynasty, the two best being Seymour and Wilfork. But Wilfork needed some development time, where Seymour made more of an immediate impact. Barmore is the most impactful rookie DL since Seymour.
They may not be exactly the same player, but they are similar in impact. The Patriots have drafted some very good defensive linemen during the dynasty, the two best being Seymour and Wilfork. But Wilfork needed some development time, where Seymour made more of an immediate impact. Barmore is the most impactful rookie DL since Seymour.
I'd argue he has already had that type of impact. I don't think snap counts are available for 2001, but Barmore is in the 60% range, which is ridiculously high for a rookie DT on the Pats.
Since this thread was bumped I read through the first few pages. Yes, it appears there is something wrong with you Warren Sapp. Though we already knew that.
Also another stat that was not tallied in 2001 was QB hits. It looks like that stat came in around 2006. Barmore already has 5 this season.
They've generally made due with the workmanlike DTs who are pretty stout against the run, occupy blockers, etc. This is definitely an element they have have been lacking, and one that can be very hard to come by outside the top half of the first round.
It's funny, his traditional counting stats don't look so gaudy but he has made a ton of plays this season where he's forced the QB out of the pocket or helped set a teammate up for a sack. Pressure up the middle from a DT just chewing through blockers is so disruptive. I know some other needs may take precedence, but I'd love if they can somehow get their hands on another high-end front 7 talent alongside Barmore and Judon—that's when the D would really be in "you can't double team all of them" territory. Easier said than done, of course. Judon was a mega contract and Barmore had some pre-draft red flags...not easy to get guys like this.
I had hopes that Dominique Easley would be this kind of impactful DT. We know what happened with him (though he had a good season with the Rams after leaving the Pats...). This kid though...holy smokes he's a wrecking machine.
Him, Mac, and Stevenson in the same draft. My goodness.
Him, Mac, and Stevenson in the same draft. My goodness.
Probably not this season. I believe the deadline to be activated from NFI list is today, after which both players will be delegated to IR for the remainder of the season.
The other way to look at it is that with Judson and Barmore terrorizing OLines, it makes it much easier for other more pedestrian edge rushers to make an impact.
I didn't figure it would be this season. Moving forward this should be the best draft BB has ever had. Actually pretty excited to see McGrone next year.
McGrone has sideline to sideline speed and hits like a truck. He was one of the linebackers predraft I had singled out for the Pats. His coverage needs a ton of work but if that improves he’d be an athletic LB who is not a liability in the run game.
As for Barmore - he is a penetrator vs someone who two-gaps but in terms of impact on defense he is like an even bigger Chris Jones. The knocks on him were on off-field stuff and play discipline. Seems like both knocks have been addressed. Belichick might have given him a shout out because it’s very possible the mental stuff was unfair. I could see Bill speaking out for his player especially when the player was criticized for something he has stepped up to the plate and completely addressed. It’s really tough as an outsider when you hear respected draft analysts like Bruglar and Mike Renner talking about NFL defensive coordinators and coaches saying a guy is “uncoachable” and trying to reconcile that. Sure seems like Barmore is the opposite of that - he’s taken well to coaching. Sometimes for a player, like Barmore or Chauncey Gardner-Johnson, a pre-draft narrative builds up and is like a snow-ball rolling down a hill but then in the NFL you find out that the narrative just spun out of control.
As for Barmore - he is a penetrator vs someone who two-gaps but in terms of impact on defense he is like an even bigger Chris Jones. The knocks on him were on off-field stuff and play discipline. Seems like both knocks have been addressed. Belichick might have given him a shout out because it’s very possible the mental stuff was unfair. I could see Bill speaking out for his player especially when the player was criticized for something he has stepped up to the plate and completely addressed. It’s really tough as an outsider when you hear respected draft analysts like Bruglar and Mike Renner talking about NFL defensive coordinators and coaches saying a guy is “uncoachable” and trying to reconcile that. Sure seems like Barmore is the opposite of that - he’s taken well to coaching. Sometimes for a player, like Barmore or Chauncey Gardner-Johnson, a pre-draft narrative builds up and is like a snow-ball rolling down a hill but then in the NFL you find out that the narrative just spun out of control.
Imagine a world where the Pats took Barmore at 15 and Mac is sitting behind some veteran on another team - we'd be very very happy with the pick. And yet the Pats somehow got him in the second round. Unreal.
I'm not an expert on interior DL play, but looking at the highlights from the CAR game posted above by Tims4Wins in the Taylor Kiles tweet, it seems to me that VBarmore is playing some pretty textbook-level 2-gap technique. He repeatedly stands up his guy squarely, until the RB picks a gap. Then Barmore tosses aside the OLineman, and makes the tackle. Am I wrong here?
You probably are not wrong on that particular play but in general Barmore is more of a penetrator whereas Guy is someone who two-gaps more. They have their guys doing multiple things though and if Barmore is getting good at two-gapping that’s a huge development.
There are actually three running plays in that clip. In all three of them, to the best of my limited ability to judge, it seems that Barmore is two-gapping.
I'm fascinated by this. I wonder what the real/imagined percentages are for draft picks with "coachability" concerns.
Just off the top of my head 2-3 guys per year for guys who are in consideration for the top 50. Once you get past the top 100 picks there are plenty of examples. Maybe 5% to 10% or so. Last year it was Barmore and Tevin Jenkins as the top 50 guys who slid. Greedy Williams was another guy who comes to mind too from 2020.
On the zone plays he isn’t two gapping as much as he is controlling his hat and using him to shut off a lane and then force the ball carrier into his lane & shedding for the tackle. Against zone runs you don’t want to let the OL get up into you and control where you flow or flow you out of the play. He does a fantastic job of controlling the OL, pushing him back, and then shedding for the tackle. Earlier in the season we saw guys like Godchaux vs Miami getting washed out of the play on those runs - Barmore’s play there is outstanding. I could be wrong here but I don’t think he’s two-gapping on those plays. On the one where he is going straight back into the OL it looks like a more traditional two-gap role. Could be wrong here of course.
You are for less likely to be wrong than I. I appreciate your snark-less response. Seems like we agree that he is playing very well.
I was posting some love for him in the game thread and went and googled a bunch of 2021 Mock Drafts and I couldn't find one that had Barmore in the 1st round, which is nuts. I know he has issues around effort and other things but what a steal. Good for BB the GM to move up and get him
I know injuries are a part of it, and its unfair but I have a tendency when a player practices and plays in a few preseason games and then the Pats put him in witness protection for the year, that the player is very far off and it lessens my feeling that they may be a contributor. As such, I have an early Anfernee Jennings vibe with Perkins. As for my theory, for whatever reason it does not apply to the more or less redshirting of running backs, as the Pats have had James White and Harris take a year off and come back and make big contributions. During the Tennesse v Rams game, I forget who the commentator was but he said more than any other position RB is the one spot where you can bring in a street free agent and plug and play. He said there are only a few reads for a RB. Why do I get the feeling that this isnt true with the Patriots system. Curious what SMU and the detailed football guys think of the commentators statement and whether the Pats RB system is more complex(are they different in pass protection)
That compilation doesn't even have my favorite Barmore play of the game, which was the first quarter quick outside pass to Tremble where Barmore immediately follows the pass to the sideline where Tremble is already engaged by multiple players and comes flying in over the top taking Tremble down immediately. He can see the two secondary guys in position to make the play but doesn't slow down until he's nearly on top of them, exactly the kind of effort that seemed to be in question.
It was posted in the Game ball thread but it’s definitely worth another view
View: https://twitter.com/mikereiss/status/1457721125262270473?s=21
View: https://twitter.com/mikereiss/status/1457721125262270473?s=21
This one has the full play at the start of the video, so you can see him coming all the way from the middle of the field.
It sounds like Barmore just had the kind of press conference that makes you want to buy his jersey.
View: https://twitter.com/_AndrewCallahan/status/1463257956179496974
View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1463257572765487109
View: https://twitter.com/MarkDanielsPJ/status/1463258445054947328
View: https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/1463257747760324608
View: https://twitter.com/_AndrewCallahan/status/1463257956179496974
View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1463257572765487109
View: https://twitter.com/MarkDanielsPJ/status/1463258445054947328
View: https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/1463257747760324608
I’m totally, completely smitten with this kid. He is awesome and, along with Judon, EXACTLY what we badly needed. I basically just watch those 2 on every play during games.
