Don't NBA teams get around this by simply executing the trade after the pick is made? Maybe another team might be reluctant do that in this case where you're helping another team get around an NFL punishment, but on the other hand, it's dog-eat-dog; team X is only going to trade down with NE if they think it is a good move for them, so maybe they say the hell with it, I'm not going to be a good solider only to see another team step in and make the deal they wanted to make.
I think the way the Patriots have proven to operate is to work on a bunch of deals at the same time, always looking to maximize value, and without really prioritizing the best players first. So I'm not sure why a potential team-friendly extension for Ryan would be buried at the bottom of the to-do list.
Ahhhh... I see your point. Fair enough. I still don't like Logan Ryan nearly SS much as many here do, but if we want to sign him to a verrrry team friendly deal, who am I to get in the way?
Great analysis. I feel even more strongly that Collins is a special case. He's got HOF talent and can play multiple positions. Can't let a guy like that get away.
"For the violation of the playing rules and the failure to cooperate in the subsequent investigation, the New England Patriots are fined $1 million and will forfeit the club's first-round selection in the 2016 NFL Draft and the club's fourth-round selection in the 2017 NFL Draft. If the Patriots have more than one selection in either of these rounds, the earlier selection shall be forfeited. The club may not trade or otherwise encumber these selections."
He sucks as a guard and hasn't been good this year. I thought he was fine when he was purely playing RT at the end of 2013. Salary is a tough call-veteran olline players, even kind of shitty ones, get paid very well. He's paid reasonably for a third tackle right now (2.6 million cap hit) but that cap hit goes up next year and he has to play and perform like at least a mediocre starting tackle to earn his salary next season.
Thanks. You know, it's lost in all the other garbage that went on, but that penalty as written is absurd. Basically, if they were to trade fair value outside of their forfeited pick to obtain a higher first rounder, the penalty effectively increases. F Goodell.
QFT. I agree with the comment in another thread that the pre-Super Bowl search for stories was also the best chance for public sentiment to continue to build around the inanity of punishment...an opportunity now lost, I am afraid.
I agree.
My point was that they likely need a 3rd LB for a base defense (I know that "base" frequently means nickel, but even then, it would be nice to have the option to go 3-3 rather than 4-2).
Generally agree, except that the Pats may be able to reduce Hightower's 2016 cap number by signing him to an extension this offseason. So, if there is some wiggle room in Hightower's assumed desire to be paid at market level, an extension could be worth exploring.
$25K fine. That's what it should have even if they were guilty (and the best evidence says nope). And the failure to cooperate charge is one that would be laughed out of court if could be litigated in one (yes, I know it can't).
This seems like an awful idea. Guess who will be responsible for determining whether such an arrangement violates the terms of discipline? I'll give you a hint: He has red hair, his name rhymes with Godger Roodell, and he's a huge asshole.
That would be asking for trouble.
Why do people keep saying this?
Even if they have money I don't see it--the Pats seem to prize continuity and developing talent on the line. Can anyone think of a big name OL the Pats have brought in other than Brian Waters? Waters is also a special case--he was a pro bowl player who was an unrestricted free agent who was willing to play for peanuts as long as we didn't make him do much in the off-season, and it was in also the year with the shortened off-season due to the lockout.
Because that would mean trading Jones for nothing. #29 falls in the first round. We can't a have a first round pick, unless we have a lower pick in that round. So unless you have another trade lined up for #30 or #31 we would be trading him for nothing. And even if you did adding in what we would have to give up in that deal would make it counter-productive.
The counter-argument is that the offensive line has never been such a dire need before. Ideally, you build every position through the draft and only go outside the organization when that is unsuccessful. The OL has been successful in the past, but clearly it isn't now.
I suppose my understanding of the true number of games missed by Ivory has been schewed by constantly hearing/reading about various injuries that the guy has been battling and the debate on whether he'll be playing or not on any given Sunday.
Under his scenario we should then have the 29th and 30th pick and we'd lose the 29th pick for deflategate leaving the Pats with the 30th pick.
Exactly. Which means we would've traded Jones and whatever the team with #30 wanted for #30. Meaning we basically get raped for it to happen.
Incorrect. We have the 30th pick, but it goes up in smoke. In this scenario, we trade for the 29th pick. We then have the 29th and 30th picks. The 29th pick then goes up in smoke and we still get the 30th pick.
Yea, and maybe I'm just overreacting to yesterday a bit. Solder and Vollmer are good, not great, tackles (Vollmer has played poorly recently, but I have to think that's at least in part due to injury, and that he has a good track record of providing a lot of production at that position). They drafted 2 guards lat year, one of whom didn't play yesterday and the other that didn't seem too wretched to me (Mason). Stork struggled this year, but they do have him and Andrews as options moving forward. Kline looked awful yesterday, and I think a healthy competition between him, the two rookies, and Wendell (if they bring him back) should produce a solid combo (hopefully).
Exactly, it obviously is not too likely, but it is one of the very few reasonable scenarios. NFC team, looking for pass rush, picking late in the first round, might be willing to give up a pick due to their situation - older QB, older coach, close to title.
I think (or more importantly I think BB thinks) that offensive lines are just built differently than other units: they just seem to believe that you want the same guys to be in the system for as long as possible. Whether it's keeping physically limited guys like Ryan Wendell or Dan Connolly with a ton of in system experience rather than trying to pick up slightly more talented guy without that kind of experience, or arguably overpaying to keep the line intact (I'm thinking of Connolly or Neal or Kaczur or (currently) Cannon), or managing the roster to generally avoid turning over more than one spot a year, the Pats have typically just tried to build lines slowly using a combo of high picks and some guys who just come off the scrap heap.
I think you're right that Arizona could actually be a good fit here.
I agree that they value continuity and that they would like to build the line in the way you describe, but there's a limit to the value placed on continuity versus talent and financial considerations - they jettisoned Mankins, Devey earlier this year, played three rookie interior OL over Chris Barker (who had two years in the system), and picked LaAdrian Waddle off the scrap heap and played him at LT over Cam Fleming after just two weeks. There are points where talent and / or finances trump continuity, and I think we've reached a point where the group they have has failed and they have little choice but to go outside the organization.
I agree they might do something like this, but this isn't a fix for 2016. Maybe they foresee enough growth from the kids to stand pat, but that seems pretty risky to me.
Doubt 1yr of Chandler Jones nets you a first rd pick but would one year of Chandler Jones net you one year of Michael Floyd? That might be a great trade for both teams. AZ still has Fitz, John Brown, Jerome Brown and JJ Nelson who is basically a John Brown clone. Michael Floyd is exactly the type of outside the #'s physical receiver this team needs.
