Pats Preseason: QB Edition

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Cellar-Door

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I think the same thing I did as soon as Jones was drafted.
Cam will start week 1 barring injury/COVID issues
Jones will likely take over at some point, unless the team and Cam are playing well.
I don't think Bill would pull a Flores and make the team worse to get the rookie in there if Cam plays well and we're winning, but honestly I expect Cam and or the team to struggle at some point, or injury/COVID issues to force a switch and then Bill to just not switch back.
 

Gash Prex

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I don't think it was "Cam's fault" - we've seen tons of QBs (including Brady) miss the pressure and get hammered from the backside - but it sure would be nice if he saw/felt the pressure and stepped up on the pocket and/or scrambled.

my prediction has always been after week 4. The last thing I want is for Mac to start against a tough dolphins D on opening day.
 

RedOctober3829

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My theory is there's no way in hell they'll have Mac starting against Tampa, barring injury. I think the clock starts ticking after that game if he keeps showing promise.
I've heard this theory from a lot of people and I'm not buying it. Why should Bill give a crap about playing Mac against Tampa Bay if it gives them the best chance to win? Honestly, with that pass rush would Cam fare better given how long he holds onto the ball for? Don't you think if the kid is ready that Bill would love to have him out there against Brady and imagine if he shined and they won?
 

Sille Skrub

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I'm also not buying it. Bill will start the guy he thinks will give him the best chance to win.

Hell, he benched Bernie Kosar at the height of his popularity and stuck with Brady even after Bledsoe returned to health.
 

Cellar-Door

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I don't think it was "Cam's fault" - we've seen tons of QBs (including Brady) miss the pressure and get hammered from the backside - but it sure would be nice if he saw/felt the pressure and stepped up on the pocket and/or scrambled.

my prediction has always been after week 4. The last thing I want is for Mac to start against a tough dolphins D on opening day.
Watch the video, there's nowhere to go, his C got pushed back so he can't step in (it's what he wanted to do) and he's not getting the edge and a 1st there. His options in less than a second were, let it fly toward Jonnu early or eat it.
 

rodderick

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I've heard this theory from a lot of people and I'm not buying it. Why should Bill give a crap about playing Mac against Tampa Bay if it gives them the best chance to win? Honestly, with that pass rush would Cam fare better given how long he holds onto the ball for? Don't you think if the kid is ready that Bill would love to have him out there against Brady and imagine if he shined and they won?
I think the belief that Belichick is an objective automaton that takes into account solely on field production to determine the moves he makes is misguided simply because no human behaves that way. I think there's a possibility he doesn't want Mac making one of this first starts in what's likely to be the most overhyped regular season game in decades, certainly more hyped than some playoff games the Patriots have taken part it. I'm not saying that'll happen, I'm saying it's naive to think that's not something he'd ever consider.
 

rodderick

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I'm also not buying it. Bill will start the guy he thinks will give him the best chance to win.

Hell, he benched Bernie Kosar at the height of his popularity and stuck with Brady even after Bledsoe returned to health.
Do you think he would've stuck with Brady if they were under .500 at the time of Drew's return and Brady was playing the exact same way? I.e. he thought Brady was performing well and was the best guy for the job, but knew they weren't making the playoffs? Because I have my doubts. Either way, the situations aren't comparable at all. We wouldn't be talking about choosing a QB to lead the team for a playoff run, but merely potentially delaying naming a guy as the starter for a few weeks.
 

RedOctober3829

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I think the belief that Belichick is an objective automaton that takes into account solely on field production to determine the moves he makes is misguided simply because no human behaves that way. I think there's a possibility he doesn't want Mac making one of this first starts in what's likely to be the most overhyped regular season game in decades, certainly more hyped than some playoff games the Patriots have taken part it. I'm not saying that'll happen, I'm saying it's naive to think that's not something he'd ever consider.
I mean the kid has played on the biggest stage in college football at Alabama. He's played in plenty of hyped-up games. If he's the best player for the job.....to sit a player because you're afraid the game is too hyped up is a disservice to the rest of the team.
 

IdiotKicker

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I mean the kid has played on the biggest stage in college football at Alabama. He's played in plenty of hyped-up games. If he's the best player for the job.....to sit a player because you're afraid the game is too hyped up is a disservice to the rest of the team.
This is where I’m at. You sit him if he’s not ready to play in the game and will have problems with his responsibilities. But if he’s ready to play from a standpoint of being able to understand and execute his responsibilities, then you put him in the game. If a professional athlete can’t handle the hype of a regular season game, even a big one, it doesn’t really speak well to their ability to continue to be a professional athlete.
 

DJnVa

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I didn't see every snap, but I'm not selling on the passing offense yet. The OL was pretty messed up IMO. We have seen the OL messed up into the October before, and then coming together. Not sure that it says anything about the QBs and WRs right now, but YMMV.
Additionally, BB keeps everything pretty vanilla.
 

Sille Skrub

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Do you think he would've stuck with Brady if they were under .500 at the time of Drew's return and Brady was playing the exact same way? I.e. he thought Brady was performing well and was the best guy for the job, but knew they weren't making the playoffs? Because I have my doubts. Either way, the situations aren't comparable at all. We wouldn't be talking about choosing a QB to lead the team for a playoff run, but merely potentially delaying naming a guy as the starter for a few weeks.
I am not really sure what you are getting at with your example. Each week and in each situation, BB thought Brady gave him the best chance to win, so he stuck with him.

Either way, I disagree with the premise that Bill would keep Mac on the shelf just because the thought Brady return game was too large of a stage.
 

Big McCorkle

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I don't think Mac has to lead the Pats to a top 5 passing offense in order to start. They just need to be top half of the league. If that happens, they'll be able to spread the field out and the defense will have to adjust accordingly leading to lighter boxes and the ability to run out of that which is better for the offense.
Oh, I wasn't saying that Jones has to lead the Pats to a top 5 passing offense in order to start; I was saying he'd need to do that to have a more positive effect on the running game, and specifically the running backs, than Cam exerts simply by being a running threat himself. If Mac is a better passer then he should start, period, regardless of exactly how much better he is. It's just that lightening up the boxes, while very important, isn't the only way for a quarterback to improve the running game. There's a reason why, IIRC, Lamar Jackson was the most efficient runner in the NFL last year and JK Dobbins was the second most efficient...

Although, looking into the data further, the overall relationship between QB and RB running volume and success doesn't seem that strong, although it's certainly possible that specifically QBs at the tail-end of the distribution, like Lamar Jackson or Rookie RG3, have an outsized effect, which could potentially come in no small part from the sorts of playcalling that having them enables, like read options.

So, I was wrong. Probably. I still think the fact that the Patriots were one of the few teams in the NFL to have a positive-EPA running game last season has a lot to do with Cam, from both his own production as well as the positives he brings to other runners, but how good Jones has to be as a passer to outweigh that impact is definitely not the "top-five" take I had. The impact of lighter boxes on running efficiency is likely just too massive, and the fringe examples of players like Lamar and RG3 (and young Cam) too incomparable to modern-day Cam, for the threshold to be that high. And regardless of that, the value provided by Cam in the running game is necessarily limited by virtue of it being value in the running game.
 

cshea

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Do you think he would've stuck with Brady if they were under .500 at the time of Drew's return and Brady was playing the exact same way? I.e. he thought Brady was performing well and was the best guy for the job, but knew they weren't making the playoffs? Because I have my doubts. Either way, the situations aren't comparable at all. We wouldn't be talking about choosing a QB to lead the team for a playoff run, but merely potentially delaying naming a guy as the starter for a few weeks.
Hasn't it been reported that Bill was ready to move on to Brady even before Bledsoe's injury, but he couldn't/didn't because he wasn't established enough to make such a move. I think he would've stuck with Brady regardless of W/L record.

He's always said he'll do what's best for the football team. He'll do just that with Mac. Mac will start when Bill thinks Mac gives him the best chance to win, not a moment sooner or later. If that's week 1, it's week 1. If it's week 4, it's week 4. He's not going to hold Mac out of a game if he thinks Mac's the QB that gives them the best chance to win it.
 

scottyno

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Cam threw 7 passes, 2 were screens in the backfield which count as negative for this, and 2 were throwaways that ended up behind the line which also count as negative. The one where he was almost sacked counted as a -6 in "pass length" because he started 8 yards back or whatever and it barely went forward. 1000% meaningless as a stat when evaluating last night with context.
 

Al Zarilla

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Hasn't it been reported that Bill was ready to move on to Brady even before Bledsoe's injury, but he couldn't/didn't because he wasn't established enough to make such a move. I think he would've stuck with Brady regardless of W/L record.

He's always said he'll do what's best for the football team. He'll do just that with Mac. Mac will start when Bill thinks Mac gives him the best chance to win, not a moment sooner or later. If that's week 1, it's week 1. If it's week 4, it's week 4. He's not going to hold Mac out of a game if he thinks Mac's the QB that gives them the best chance to win it.
I've heard Belichick say that in multiple videos, like Do Your Job. (Tom impressed so much that they could have started the season with him at starting QB, but he just didn't have the experience yet). Of course, Mo Lewis forced the issue and the rest is history.
 

JM3

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I liked the SSF video a lot more than I like Mac. Still haven't changed my opinion, but still hope to be wrong :)
 

DJnVa

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It's just one game, but last season most NFL QB were 2.65 to 2.85. So, that's good.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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I mean, not really. He was just holding onto the ball forever and then doing the scramble drill against second/third stringers. That's not exactly a sustainable method of play for numerous reasons.
Couldn’t disagree more. He’s made a number of excellent plays, and he’s also playing with 3rd stringers so not fair to hold that against him.
 

Eddie Jurak

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So, in all likelihood, it's either a wash or an edge to Cam, unless Mac can lead the team to a top five or so passing offense (in which case the lighter boxes and such are likely enough to swing the pendulum in the other direction). The running game, not just from the quarterback position but also from the runningbacks, will very likely be more productive with him under center. However, running the ball is still not particularly productive and will never be remotely as efficient as a high-end passing game. If Mac provides a substantially better option as a passer, then it will outweigh the value derived from Cam's stature as a running threat. It's just the way the game works.
One thing Mac may do very well that Cam is not so great at is play action passing. Mac may not yet be good enough to help the running game, but the running game may be good enough to help Mac.
 

Captaincoop

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From BSJ today. Be still, my heart:

Speaking of the QBs, how long is this QB competition going to go on? For a while, I've been willing to let this thing play out as long as possible, I'm sure Belichick will do that to screw with the Dolphins.

But every creeping day is another one in favor of Jones. Newton's legs are not any better than they were to end last season, when teams were unafraid of his ability to be a threat to keep the ball.

If Jones has another good day tomorrow, he should get equal time with the starting line on Thursday night. He and Newton should split reps with the ones and the twos, and then Belichick should make a decision. At times, it feels fruitless when Newton is forced to throw the ball. With Jones, you have a feeling something great could happen, and you get the sense the players feel that too. Kendrick Bourne walked off the field and yelled, "Love you Mac!" while Jones talked to reporters.
 

Bowhemian

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From BSJ today. Be still, my heart:

Speaking of the QBs, how long is this QB competition going to go on? For a while, I've been willing to let this thing play out as long as possible, I'm sure Belichick will do that to screw with the Dolphins.

But every creeping day is another one in favor of Jones. Newton's legs are not any better than they were to end last season, when teams were unafraid of his ability to be a threat to keep the ball.

If Jones has another good day tomorrow, he should get equal time with the starting line on Thursday night. He and Newton should split reps with the ones and the twos, and then Belichick should make a decision. At times, it feels fruitless when Newton is forced to throw the ball. With Jones, you have a feeling something great could happen, and you get the sense the players feel that too. Kendrick Bourne walked off the field and yelled, "Love you Mac!" while Jones talked to reporters.
Uh, hasn't BB stated that Cam is the starting QB? Could he change his mind? Of course. But that has nothing to do with the Dolphins.
 

shawnrbu

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Slightly off topic, why weren’t the Pats selected for Hard Knocks? Far more fresh storylines than the Cowboys, who normally miss the playoffs every other year anyway.
 

Gash Prex

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Yes - BB has explicitly stated that Cam is the "starter." Cam seems a little unsure about Week 1

Newton addressed that on Monday. While he initially deflected, saying, “You know the answer to that question,” he eventually explicitly set out what he has and hasn’t been told.
“Y’all sitting up here asking silly questions to me and I’m looking at y’all with the same thing. I don’t know what y’all want me to say,” Newton said, via Karen Guregian of the Boston Herald. “You know, you know that. You know he hasn’t said that, so for you to just ask the question, it is what it is.
“So every single day I’m coming out here with the intention to just get better. That’s the only thing I can do. I can control that. But as far as somebody else’s analogy or interpretation for what Week One is, I’m trying to focus on what tomorrow brings, and making adjustments in tonight’s meetings.”
“I don’t take [your questions] personal. I just want you guys to understand, everything y’all know, I know,” Newton said. “There’s no hidden motives or things like that. I do know those things like that, I can’t worry about. Because each and every day, I don’t necessarily care about who’s starting, I mostly care about making sure I put the best product out there for me, and I know Mac is feeling the same way, I know Brian [Hoyer] is feeling the same way and everybody else, going down each and every position.
“As far as Week One, we’ve got so much to worry about prior to Week 1. And that’s where my focus is right now.”
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/08/16/cam-newton-hasnt-been-told-hes-the-week-one-starter/

I continue to believe Cam will start week 1 and after that Mac will have a real shot.

Also, Jeff Howe of the Athletic addressed this issue today

https://theathletic.com/2771477/2021/08/16/howe-mac-jones-will-be-the-patriots-starting-quarterback-the-only-question-is-how-soon/?source=user_shared_article

(not a subscriber but if you are, I'm sure its good content)
 

Rheal With Cheese

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Slightly off topic, why weren’t the Pats selected for Hard Knocks? Far more fresh storylines than the Cowboys, who normally miss the playoffs every other year anyway.
Patriots have made the playoffs in the last two seasons so they can opt out of consideration. There are other rules related to new coaches that allow a team to opt out or narrow the field of potential teams.

I believe such teams can opt in but it’s hard to see BB doing that willingly. Next year could be interesting because if they miss the playoffs, it will be the first time under the current HK “rules” they could be considered with no veto power. I have to imagine HardKnocks wouldn’t reject a chance for a Belichick season.
 

johnmd20

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Patriots have made the playoffs in the last two seasons so they can opt out of consideration. There are other rules related to new coaches that allow a team to opt out or narrow the field of potential teams.

I believe such teams can opt in but it’s hard to see BB doing that willingly. Next year could be interesting because if they miss the playoffs, it will be the first time under the current HK “rules” they could be considered with no veto power. I have to imagine HardKnocks wouldn’t reject a chance for a Belichick season.
If the Pats don't make the playoffs this year, there is an approximately 100% chance Hard Knocks will choose them. That's a no doubter.
 

Rheal With Cheese

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If the Pats don't make the playoffs this year, there is an approximately 100% chance Hard Knocks will choose them. That's a no doubter.
Agreed. The only reason it’s not 100% in that hypothetical would be if Belichick also retires and they get a new HC.
 

johnmd20

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Agreed. The only reason it’s not 100% in that hypothetical would be if Belichick also retires and they get a new HC.
It's still 100% even if the entire roster and coaching staff changes. It's the Patriots.

If there is a team that will get eyeballs, it's them. The good people at Hard Knocks are chomping at the bit hoping they don't make the playoffs.
 

Rheal With Cheese

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It's still 100% even if the entire roster and coaching staff changes. It's the Patriots.

If there is a team that will get eyeballs, it's them. The good people at Hard Knocks are chomping at the bit hoping they don't make the playoffs.
I mean the Patriots can opt out of consideration if there’s a new coach.

I think they would since no team with a new coach has ever opted in.

No team wants to do that to a new coach. Well Jerry Jones may but he’s a bit of a narcissist

also if there’s no Belichick and no Brady and the team doesn’t make the playoffs well…I’m not sure what’s the draw. No great/sexy skill players.

Maybe there will be some new players but I think they would be one of the more boring draws. There would be a schadenfreude / car crash quality if people and especially the haters want to watch Rome after the fall but I’m not sure people are going to want to watch awkward RKK speeches
 

Soxy

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Uh, hasn't BB stated that Cam is the starting QB? Could he change his mind? Of course. But that has nothing to do with the Dolphins.
I think his point is more that there are competitive advantage reasons not to announce who is starting at QB before the game. This is especially true when you consider the sharp contrast between how the offense would look with Cam at QB and how it would look with Mac. I'm sure the team will know long before then, but there's really no reason Belichick needs to share that information with anyone outside of the building before kickoff. I don't take his "Cam is the starter" statement at face value, especially when he already said that would change if someone else "play(s) better than he does."

Of course, if Cam isn't starting then the team may just move on from him completely, making it all moot. Otherwise, why tip your hand? Keep them guessing and make them prepare for both. (Tom Curran even thinks Belichick may use both throughout games, basically having a "Cam package" and a "Mac package", but I'm not quite ready to go there yet.)

If I had to pick now, I'd lean towards Mac starting in week one. I always thought he'd be given a fair shot since the day they drafted him. I know QB is different and a very unique position, but you don't draft a guy at pick #15 just to sit him on the bench. Maybe that's what ends up happening, but I highly doubt that was the concrete plan just because he's a QB. If he wins it fair and square by showing a better capability with the offense than Cam, there's really no good reason to keep Mac sitting. Players aren't blind. If Mac is the better option, they'll know it.

It's not a perfect analogy, and I'm hardly the first person to make it, but it's somewhat reminiscent of when Russ Wilson was a rookie. Seattle didn't hesitate when it became obvious that he was both ready to start in the NFL and clearly a better option than Matt Flynn. Hard to judge without seeing the entire picture, but I'm pretty close to getting there already with Mac Jones, and I was one of the biggest Cam fanboys on this board last season.
 

johnmd20

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I mean the Patriots can opt out of consideration if there’s a new coach.

I think they would since no team with a new coach has ever opted in.

No team wants to do that to a new coach. Well Jerry Jones may but he’s a bit of a narcissist

also if there’s no Belichick and no Brady and the team doesn’t make the playoffs well…I’m not sure what’s the draw. No great/sexy skill players.

Maybe there will be some new players but I think they would be one of the more boring draws. There would be a schadenfreude / car crash quality if people and especially the haters want to watch Rome after the fall but I’m not sure people are going to want to watch awkward RKK speeches
Oh, sorry, missed that part about the new coach.

But the Patriots are a draw because they are the Patriots. Boring or not, they generate interest. It's not like Hard Knocks is ever that illuminating. The best two parts of this season's first episode was an old man putting salt on a McDonald's breakfast sandwich and a player trying to wrap a present.
 

shawnrbu

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Patriots have made the playoffs in the last two seasons so they can opt out of consideration. There are other rules related to new coaches that allow a team to opt out or narrow the field of potential teams.

I believe such teams can opt in but it’s hard to see BB doing that willingly. Next year could be interesting because if they miss the playoffs, it will be the first time under the current HK “rules” they could be considered with no veto power. I have to imagine HardKnocks wouldn’t reject a chance for a Belichick season.
Thank you for clarifying. I was wrong in thinking a team could be selected after missing the playoffs for one season. If the Pats miss the playoffs this season, BB can resign as HC while Josh or Patricia assumes the HC role, then return as HC after HBO selects another team for Hard Knocks.
 

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Thank you for clarifying. I was wrong in thinking a team could be selected after missing the playoffs for one season. If the Pats miss the playoffs this season, BB can resign as HC while Josh or Patricia assumes the HC role, then return as HC after HBO selects another team for Hard Knocks.
That costs you two #1s for even thinking about it.
 

Bowhemian

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I think his point is more that there are competitive advantage reasons not to announce who is starting at QB before the game. This is especially true when you consider the sharp contrast between how the offense would look with Cam at QB and how it would look with Mac. I'm sure the team will know long before then, but there's really no reason Belichick needs to share that information with anyone outside of the building before kickoff. I don't take his "Cam is the starter" statement at face value, especially when he already said that would change if someone else "play(s) better than he does."

Of course, if Cam isn't starting then the team may just move on from him completely, making it all moot. Otherwise, why tip your hand? Keep them guessing and make them prepare for both. (Tom Curran even thinks Belichick may use both throughout games, basically having a "Cam package" and a "Mac package", but I'm not quite ready to go there yet.)

If I had to pick now, I'd lean towards Mac starting in week one. I always thought he'd be given a fair shot since the day they drafted him. I know QB is different and a very unique position, but you don't draft a guy at pick #15 just to sit him on the bench. Maybe that's what ends up happening, but I highly doubt that was the concrete plan just because he's a QB. If he wins it fair and square by showing a better capability with the offense than Cam, there's really no good reason to keep Mac sitting. Players aren't blind. If Mac is the better option, they'll know it.

It's not a perfect analogy, and I'm hardly the first person to make it, but it's somewhat reminiscent of when Russ Wilson was a rookie. Seattle didn't hesitate when it became obvious that he was both ready to start in the NFL and clearly a better option than Matt Flynn. Hard to judge without seeing the entire picture, but I'm pretty close to getting there already with Mac Jones, and I was one of the biggest Cam fanboys on this board last season.
Totally agree. But my overall point is that BB is not likely to do that. I know that we doesn't give out info before games, that's his M.O. And I agree that he will not announce the starter prior to kickoff. But again, that is not necessarily going to mess with the Dolphins. They will prepare for both QBs, as they should.

Regarding Curran saying that they could use both throughout games, I don't know. I don't think I see that happening. Doesn't seem like BB's style, although I bet Josh McD would like to mess around with that.
 

joe dokes

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One thing Mac may do very well that Cam is not so great at is play action passing. Mac may not yet be good enough to help the running game, but the running game may be good enough to help Mac.
Simplistic guess here, but given that Jones is, relatively speaking, not a running threat himself, he sort of had to perfect the play-action. My eyeballs suggest that QBs who know they can escape with their legs dont go quite as far in selling the handoff.
 

Captaincoop

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Uh, hasn't BB stated that Cam is the starting QB? Could he change his mind? Of course. But that has nothing to do with the Dolphins.
Everyone is aware there is a QB competition going on in New England, regardless of who the "starting QB" is in August. No one knows right now who is starting game one, that's the point.
 

Bowhemian

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Everyone is aware there is a QB competition going on in New England, regardless of who the "starting QB" is in August. No one knows right now who is starting game one, that's the point.
I don't disagree, but my opposition pertains to the point in the BSJ article that BB was doing it to screw with the Dolphins. And with that, I'll drop it because it really doesn't matter.
 

5dice

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Howe’s deep dive on yesterday’s qb work.

In summary, he feels that today will be pivotal re: work with starters as a predictor.

“Newton struggled against the Eagles’ starters while Jones thrived against the backups. But the question is this: Does it matter as it relates to the push for the starting job? If Jones doesn’t get an increase in reps Tuesday against the Eagles’ starters, it would be a fairly strong indication Newton will be the Week 1 starter.
After practice, Newton said Bill Belichick hasn’t yet informed him if he’ll in fact be the Week 1 starter. But if Jones doesn’t make a dent in Newton’s reps after a day like this, the writing will most certainly be on the wall. Stay tuned.”
 

Super Nomario

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One thing Mac may do very well that Cam is not so great at is play action passing. Mac may not yet be good enough to help the running game, but the running game may be good enough to help Mac.
Cam's play action numbers last year were pretty good. PF Ref has him with 863 yards on 99 PA pass attempts, an 8.7 average that ranked 16th out of 42 QBs with at least 25 PA attempts. It was a better mark than Wilson, Rivers, Rodgers, Murray, Carr, and others. It was the straight drop backs they struggled with.
 

RedOctober3829

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Howe’s deep dive on yesterday’s qb work.

In summary, he feels that today will be pivotal re: work with starters as a predictor.

“Newton struggled against the Eagles’ starters while Jones thrived against the backups. But the question is this: Does it matter as it relates to the push for the starting job? If Jones doesn’t get an increase in reps Tuesday against the Eagles’ starters, it would be a fairly strong indication Newton will be the Week 1 starter.
After practice, Newton said Bill Belichick hasn’t yet informed him if he’ll in fact be the Week 1 starter. But if Jones doesn’t make a dent in Newton’s reps after a day like this, the writing will most certainly be on the wall. Stay tuned.”
In his PC today, BB said not to put any stock in who works with who. He said he told the players way back in May not to worry about it and not to bother wasting their time and energy on it. He told the players to go out and do their job regardless of who is around them. It seems like by saying this publicly that he's letting everyone know not to assume who's going to be the starter based on personnel groupings. My thought is that they are going to take a 35,000 foot view of this whole situation after the 3rd preseason game and determine who gives the team the best chance to win. They'll internally name a starter and give that player the full two weeks to work with the starting unit behind closed doors.
 

rodderick

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SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
9,622
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
Man, it's so weird trying to follow beat writers on Twitter for practice reports. A guy like Evan Lazar will say "solid throw from Mac Jones" and there'll be 10 responses to the tune of "No mention that it was against the second team???" "You sellouts, what about Cam???" "You just report Cam's bad throws!!"
 

Gash Prex

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 18, 2002
6,112
Man, it's so weird trying to follow beat writers on Twitter for practice reports. A guy like Evan Lazar will say "solid throw from Mac Jones" and there'll be 10 responses to the tune of "No mention that it was against the second team???" "You sellouts, what about Cam???" "You just report Cam's bad throws!!"
There is a lot of weird stuff out there about Mac - and most of it seems to boil down to a solid mix of: 1) Patriots haters who can't fathom Mac being good; 2) Alabama haters; 3) People believing that Boston is racist and therefore the fans prefer Mac to Cam.

Speaking of twitter reports...

View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1427652027237208065


View: https://twitter.com/ZackCoxNESN/status/1427652868367077378


View: https://twitter.com/_AndrewCallahan/status/1427652921496375303
 

Big McCorkle

Member
SoSH Member
May 9, 2021
231
Man, it's so weird trying to follow beat writers on Twitter for practice reports. A guy like Evan Lazar will say "solid throw from Mac Jones" and there'll be 10 responses to the tune of "No mention that it was against the second team???" "You sellouts, what about Cam???" "You just report Cam's bad throws!!"
The big reason I've migrated to this site from a certain other one whose name rhymes with "said it" is to get away from having to wade through the lowest common denominators to get to any sort of... productive discussion. One particularly common brainworm there, and also obviously in Twitter reply sections, is the apparent belief that not only do beat reporters like Lazar have a sort of quantum agenda that influences how they report (as in, they're trying to change the outcomes of stuff like camp battles by measuring them), but also that such efforts actually have any effect whatsoever on the decisions made by Belichick. There is, on top of that, the broader strange dynamics of the viewership of the Mac-Cam battle (the viewership, not the battle itself), including the racial component, the bizarre armchair "Director of Player Development"-ing (as in, for example, insistences that "there's no way Bill lets Mac play until after the Bucs game! His confidence!"), and that general thing that people do where they form one belief and then, because they already "know" that it must be true as they believe it to be true, start twisting all available information to conform to that belief. So, if a beat reporter reports something that goes against that belief, well, you can't really contest the report itself so you have to disregard the reporter instead.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
8,018
around the way
The big reason I've migrated to this site from a certain other one whose name rhymes with "said it" is to get away from having to wade through the lowest common denominators to get to any sort of... productive discussion. One particularly common brainworm there, and also obviously in Twitter reply sections, is the apparent belief that not only do beat reporters like Lazar have a sort of quantum agenda that influences how they report (as in, they're trying to change the outcomes of stuff like camp battles by measuring them), but also that such efforts actually have any effect whatsoever on the decisions made by Belichick. There is, on top of that, the broader strange dynamics of the viewership of the Mac-Cam battle (the viewership, not the battle itself), including the racial component, the bizarre armchair "Director of Player Development"-ing (as in, for example, insistences that "there's no way Bill lets Mac play until after the Bucs game! His confidence!"), and that general thing that people do where they form one belief and then, because they already "know" that it must be true as they believe it to be true, start twisting all available information to conform to that belief. So, if a beat reporter reports something that goes against that belief, well, you can't really contest the report itself so you have to disregard the reporter instead.
You just described the last five years of the internet buddy.

P.s. I agree btw
 
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