Pats Preseason: QB Edition

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SMU_Sox

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You're just saying that because you want Mac to start over Cam.

Media members. Always trying to sway the public.
Hah!
As a Cam fantasy owner (he’s the third QB on the squad) and not owning Mac? Kind of wish I went the other way on that one. To be honest I have no idea who should start. My gut tells me let Cam have the helm until it’s obvious that Mac is the better option. My position is that I trust BB and Josh to make the right decision. I don’t have a strong opinion either way except for Mac looks as advertised which makes him a potentially valuable asset. Rookie QB deal when picked 15th overall gives the front office a lot of financial flexibility. Granted the next year or two might be tight but years 3-4-5 could be exciting with free agency again.

If anything I hope the plan is that whether Mac starts 2021 week 1, 4, 12, 18, etc. that he is the plan for week 1 of 2022. The horse race is fun to watch though and as a fan this has been such a fun off season.
 

dynomite

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@SeoulSoxFan I think @Big McCorkle might be someone to give a membership to .
Seconded. That was a great post by @Big McCorkle, and perfectly represents the attitude that brought most of us here and keeps us here.

Edit:

To try to add something of substance to the thread, beyond just agreeing with what @SMU_Sox says regarding most of all hoping Mac is the clear QB1 in 2022 because of his play, I thought this was an interesting point from Domonique Foxworth, best known for his time as a Bronco DB, on the network that shall not be named. He was making a point that Mac can throw to guys that aren't just "Alabama open" but are "NFL open" (I'm not sure we have a basis to say that yet, nor am I sure I agree with his larger point) but went on to describe something I hadn't heard put quite this way before:

“People love to ask NFL corners who’s the hardest person to cover. I can give you guys all the answers that you want, but actually the answer to that question is whoever was catching balls from Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees. Those were the hardest guys to cover because you couldn’t cover them even when you were ‘covering them.' That is what NFL open looks like. If you have a quarterback who can hit those passes consistently — which I’m not sure Mac Jones can, but he showed he has the ability to do it sometimes — then you are set. You don’t even have to read defenses. If you can throw it that well, go ahead, throw it into double-coverage. You know why? Because you can put it into that spot where it works. You go ahead and ask Aaron Rodgers about that.”
Link

I know he played DB in the NFL and I most certainly did not, but I'll just add that the part I'm least sure I agree with is "You don't even have to read defenses." Still, an interesting answer.
 
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SoxVindaloo

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The big reason I've migrated to this site from a certain other one whose name rhymes with "said it" is to get away from having to wade through the lowest common denominators to get to any sort of... productive discussion. One particularly common brainworm there, and also obviously in Twitter reply sections, is the apparent belief that not only do beat reporters like Lazar have a sort of quantum agenda that influences how they report (as in, they're trying to change the outcomes of stuff like camp battles by measuring them), but also that such efforts actually have any effect whatsoever on the decisions made by Belichick. There is, on top of that, the broader strange dynamics of the viewership of the Mac-Cam battle (the viewership, not the battle itself), including the racial component, the bizarre armchair "Director of Player Development"-ing (as in, for example, insistences that "there's no way Bill lets Mac play until after the Bucs game! His confidence!"), and that general thing that people do where they form one belief and then, because they already "know" that it must be true as they believe it to be true, start twisting all available information to conform to that belief. So, if a beat reporter reports something that goes against that belief, well, you can't really contest the report itself so you have to disregard the reporter instead.
Chiming in late about what a great post this is. I think this kind of constant nonsense pushback is at least a contributing factor to the embittering process that turns a Shaughnessy into a Shank. If everyone constantly accuses you of having a hidden agenda maybe it’s actually easier to have one.
 

Big McCorkle

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Thank you so much!

Also welcome @Big McCorkle. I look forward to reading more of your thoughts!
I have to admit that it was a little bit disconcerting to wake up and see practically a dozen notifications here, most of which were either tagging or mentioning me. Nice to see it was all very flattering, and not the result of me saying something outrageously dumb.
@Big McCorkle you're screen name will either be cleverly prescient a few years from now, or will date you.
:)
So either I get to have a great screen name or get to go out with Mac Jones? Sounds like a win-win to me.

To try to add something of substance to the thread, beyond just agreeing with what @SMU_Sox says regarding most of all hoping Mac is the clear QB1 in 2022 because of his play, I thought this was an interesting point from Domonique Foxworth, best known for his time as a Bronco DB, on the network that shall not be named. He was making a point that Mac can throw to guys that aren't just "Alabama open" but are "NFL open" (I'm not sure we have a basis to say that yet, nor am I sure I agree with his larger point) but went on to describe something I hadn't heard put quite this way before:

I know he played DB in the NFL and I most certainly did not, but I'll just add that the part I'm least sure I agree with is "You don't even have to read defenses." Still, an interesting answer.
The play that comes to mind most of all here is the "incomplete" pass from Jones to Meyers at the beginning of his outing last Thursday. Meyers had sort of an inside leverage on his guy, basically had him boxed out in basketball terms, but his guy was still riding his ass like a racehorse; a pass waist-high and above, or even knee-high and above, almost, certainly gets swatted away by an outstretched hand or, worse, tipped up in the air. I feel like I remember Brady consistently putting throws exactly where Mac in that situation, low and in front of his guy. The ball could've maybe been a few inches higher (but it certainly didn't need to be), but if nothing else having the mind to not throw high to guys crossing across the middle is not a bad sign. I'm generally of the mind that QB accuracy is much better judged as relative to the defender than to the receiver.

(As a side note, It's really annoying that NFL Gamepass won't have the All-22 film available for a while.)

And it certainly is curious to talk about not having to read defenses when you're discussing the ball placement ability of Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees.
 

dirtynine

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Waiting to see “Alabama open”and “NFL open” as talk radio terms. “He was NFL open, Tony. And Mac couldn’t hit him.” “Mike, he was Alabama open AT BEST.”

It’ll be the new “processing”.
 

lexrageorge

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I think the difference is that Belichick had more time to watch Brady and move his development along. So he felt confident that Brady could overcome a couple of shaky games. So I still fully expect Cam is going to start Week 1.
 

tims4wins

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I think the difference is that Belichick had more time to watch Brady and move his development along. So he felt confident that Brady could overcome a couple of shaky games. So I still fully expect Cam is going to start Week 1.
Plus he didn’t have a choice. Brady was the backup. Maybe he had a choice once Bledsoe was heathy for the Saints game, but Brady had started 8 games at that point. And Brady never lost again after that.
 

Gash Prex

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I had no idea Mac was a such smart kid as well - always seemed kind of goofy.

On Thursday, Jones was named Academic All-American of the Year by the College Sports Information Directors of America. The award recognizes the top scholar-athlete in the nation without consideration of gender or sport.

Jones, who turns 23 on Sept. 5, earned his undergraduate degree in communication studies with an unblemished 4.0 grade-point average in December 2019. A year later, he completed his master’s degree in sport hospitality, also with a 4.0 GPA.
https://sportsnaut.com/patriots-qb-mac-jones-wins-award-for-academics/

Hopefully he follows in the Justin Herbert and Payton Manning past winners mold and not Chad Pennington
 

Captaincoop

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bakahump

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I have an honest to god queston.......Communications. How hard is that. I mean for a regular joe, not the Bama Qb. Cause i think by % there are more comm majors in sports then any other. When I hear comm major (fairly or not) I think underwater basket weaving.

And what do you do with a Communications major?
 

rodderick

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BaseballJones

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I have an honest to god queston.......Communications. How hard is that. I mean for a regular joe, not the Bama Qb. Cause i think by % there are more comm majors in sports then any other. When I hear comm major (fairly or not) I think underwater basket weaving.

And what do you do with a Communications major?
Easy there. I went to Syracuse’s Newhouse School of Public Communications.
 

joe dokes

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I have an honest to god queston.......Communications. How hard is that. I mean for a regular joe, not the Bama Qb. Cause i think by % there are more comm majors in sports then any other. When I hear comm major (fairly or not) I think underwater basket weaving.

And what do you do with a Communications major?
Could be journalism (or the many forms of non-traditional "journalism" that involve writing or otherwise communicating), public relations, marketing. And to a somewhat lesser extent, being able to communicate effectively cuts across many fields. It was a long time ago for me, but the degree (or at least a journalism degree) requires a very broad swath of liberal arts-type classes. Whether that's "easier" than STEM or business classes - or how well it comparatively prepares a human being to live in the world -- is up to the beholder. (It is quite possible that a star athlete at a football factory with a Com degree is none of these things. Just speaking generically.
A prime driving factor is that Com degrees are unlikely to involve labs and other endeavors beyond "class-time" that conflict with practice.)
 

Two Youks

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I have an honest to god queston.......Communications. How hard is that. I mean for a regular joe, not the Bama Qb. Cause i think by % there are more comm majors in sports then any other. When I hear comm major (fairly or not) I think underwater basket weaving.

And what do you do with a Communications major?
I graduated with a BA in Communication (minus the 's' at the end) from UNH. The major touched on things like formal logic (premises, conclusions, fallacies, etc.), semiotics, propaganda (both how it works and its history), various bits of sociology (especially Garfinkel and his breaching experiments, and what that means for how we perceive the world and our place in it, and how we communicate that), and so on. It was largely meant to be a stepping stone towards academia. I found it to be pretty easy to go through, but I always did much better with subjects that fall under the Liberal Arts umbrella than hard sciences or math.

I have no idea if other schools follow along a similar path, or if they focus more on the nuts and bolts of actually producing various media. Or if they focus on, say, communicative disorders.
 

Gash Prex

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Getting A's in Communications at the University of Alabama - while you're the quarterback on the football team - makes you smart? Hmm.
Not to belabor the point, but it isn't simply that he got an 4.0 GPA in communications - its that he was named the top scholar athlete in the nation. It may not be astrophysics, but he clearly isn't a lightweight.
 

dcdrew10

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I have an honest to god queston.......Communications. How hard is that. I mean for a regular joe, not the Bama Qb. Cause i think by % there are more comm majors in sports then any other. When I hear comm major (fairly or not) I think underwater basket weaving.

And what do you do with a Communications major?
A comms major needs to be able to write, think analytically, analyze data, verbal, non-verbal, and written communication and think on their feet. Comms gets a bad rep because it is basically an amalgamation of a bunch of minors. You need to know writing, interpersonal communication, psychology, marketing, story telling, analyitcal thinking, econ (most comms majors are required to take a couple econ classes), textual analysis, statistics, public speaking etc. It might seem less focused than something like mechanical engineering, but if you really break it down it can be focused, like on journalism, film and media, PR, etc.

I was a Public Comm major in college and I work in health communications/IT. I've worked in academia teaching medical professionals how to talk to patients so they understand what they are having done to them or the medication they're being prescribed and written articles on health literacy. I currently manage the informational content on multiple websites, including HealthCare.gov and several other NIH centers and ICs.

I'd say Mac is no dummy. Don't forget he also had to take electives, and gen ed classes like math, science, and literature.
 

Captaincoop

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Not to belabor the point, but it isn't simply that he got an 4.0 GPA in communications - its that he was named the top scholar athlete in the nation. It may not be astrophysics, but he clearly isn't a lightweight.
He doesn't seem like an idiot, so I'm mostly just making fun of Alabama. But the criteria for those awards tend to be pretty unsophisticated. For example,, I'd take a football player who got like a 3.5 in any engineering program in the country over Mac's academic profile. And those guys are out there. Let alone the guys who got a 3.8 in Communications at a better school, who are also out there.
 

Cellar-Door

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Not to belabor the point, but it isn't simply that he got an 4.0 GPA in communications - its that he was named the top scholar athlete in the nation. It may not be astrophysics, but he clearly isn't a lightweight.
It's a made up award that somehow goes to a whole lot of football players in mediocre academic programs at not very tough schools. You really want me to buy that Mac Jones got that award because he was smarter than all the women at Yale for example... SURE.
 

DJnVa

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It's a made up award that somehow goes to a whole lot of football players in mediocre academic programs at not very tough schools.
Eh, it seems to actually go to a wide range of sports. Football has 4 in last 20 years.
 

pokey_reese

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I have an honest to god queston.......Communications. How hard is that. I mean for a regular joe, not the Bama Qb. Cause i think by % there are more comm majors in sports then any other. When I hear comm major (fairly or not) I think underwater basket weaving.

And what do you do with a Communications major?
So, a comm degree is different for student athletes, same as other majors, but it is specifically one that they steer them towards for reasons. My wife and many of our friends were PhD candidates in the Comm department at the University of Oregon, and those students absolutely get special treatment and have 'handlers' to essentially make sure that they get good enough grades to not interfere with their football responsibilities (it was also fascinating to hear about the tiered system, where, for instance, baseball players and volleyball players had some privileges, but nothing close to the football kids). Obviously, the people like my wife who went into it to be academics were serious scholars, but it is also a discipline with a wide range of outcomes and areas of focus, some of which are far less rigorous than others. You can absolutely skate through as an athlete, especially at a school that really values its football program. For a regular student, it's a different story, but it's not physics or biochem for anyone (I say this as a person who got a history BA, so no judgement).
 

Euclis20

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I have an honest to god queston.......Communications. How hard is that. I mean for a regular joe, not the Bama Qb. Cause i think by % there are more comm majors in sports then any other. When I hear comm major (fairly or not) I think underwater basket weaving.

And what do you do with a Communications major?
Nothing productive to add, but a good friend of mine double majored in communications and history. His go-to line when asked what he could do with that degree was that he could talk to you while he pumped your gas.
 

johnmd20

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It's a made up award that somehow goes to a whole lot of football players in mediocre academic programs at not very tough schools. You really want me to buy that Mac Jones got that award because he was smarter than all the women at Yale for example... SURE.
As noted, 4 football players have won this award in the past 20 years. I am not sure what "whole lot" is but it's not that. Very cool snark, tho. Better to be dismissive than right.

Further, your second comment is an insult and a cheap shot to the award winners. Frankly, none of your post seems to have any point. Swimmers Sarah Gibson (Texas A&M) and Katie Ledecky (Stanford) won it in back to back years. After Ledecky, Lexi Jacobus (female pole vaulter) won it from Arkansas. Would you like to insult their awards too? Because, you know, those women in New Haven are just smarter. . . .SURE.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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...and with that, let's all move on.

If any of the posters would like to continue, please feel free to start a thread elsewhere for the validity of the awards.
 

Ferm Sheller

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I think that if Harry had hauled in that long, perfect pass at the end of the first half, Asiasi didn't drop the well-thrown would be TD pass, and Bourne didn't drop the well-thrown 2 point conversion, we'd all be saying that Jones had a better night than Cam did.
 

Super Nomario

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I think that if Harry had hauled in that long, perfect pass at the end of the first half, Asiasi didn't drop the well-thrown would be TD pass, and Bourne didn't drop the well-thrown 2 point conversion, we'd all be saying that Jones had a better night than Cam did.
They were both damn near perfect.

The biggest takeaway for me is Mac came in with the rest of the 2s. It doesn't seem like they're treating it as a real competition.
 

lexrageorge

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They were both damn near perfect.

The biggest takeaway for me is Mac came in with the rest of the 2s. It doesn't seem like they're treating it as a real competition.
Also should be noted that both QB's were playing against the Eagles 2's and 3's.

I'm thinking that the Pats starters will get a lot of reps against during next week's joint practices, but we will see the backups play most if not all of the final exhibition. So this was probably the last and best opportunity to see the #1 offense on the field in game conditions.
 

reggiecleveland

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So, a comm degree is different for student athletes, same as other majors, but it is specifically one that they steer them towards for reasons. My wife and many of our friends were PhD candidates in the Comm department at the University of Oregon, and those students absolutely get special treatment and have 'handlers' to essentially make sure that they get good enough grades to not interfere with their football responsibilities (it was also fascinating to hear about the tiered system, where, for instance, baseball players and volleyball players had some privileges, but nothing close to the football kids). Obviously, the people like my wife who went into it to be academics were serious scholars, but it is also a discipline with a wide range of outcomes and areas of focus, some of which are far less rigorous than others. You can absolutely skate through as an athlete, especially at a school that really values its football program. For a regular student, it's a different story, but it's not physics or biochem for anyone (I say this as a person who got a history BA, so no judgement).
My nephew played pro basketball oversees. He had just finished his mechanical engineering degree. He was interviewed in Sweden and the reporter noted he was the first import player the team had whose education had "utility" and noted harshly most American players had communications degrees and despite their field of study none of them had "successfully communicated exactly what that was."
 

Captaincoop

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My nephew played pro basketball oversees. He had just finished his mechanical engineering degree. He was interviewed in Sweden and the reporter noted he was the first import player the team had whose education had "utility" and noted harshly most American players had communications degrees and despite their field of study none of them had "successfully communicated exactly what that was."
Wait, so you're saying that Europeans are condescending toward American visitors...this is fresh stuff.
 

bakahump

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Thanks guys,

And I should clarify.....I always considered Comm majors when athletes had them as underwater basket weaving. Of course other then the occasional Biomed major or a kid at a service academy I figured most any majors for Football players or 1A prospects in others sports were mirages. I appreciate the feed back and realize the irony that I coulda used a Communications degree. :)
 

SMU_Sox

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At SMU I know one of our QBs filed a complaint against… I think it was against Head Coach Chad Morris but it could have been against June Jones because this particular QB wanted to be a science major and the coach basically told him to change his major or else. I’m not sure if this ever made the news or got out or if it was handled internally or not. Only reason I know about it is because I’m friendly with the poli-sci profs and one of the professors was on some committee that heard all the NCAA and sports complaints. This was back in 2013-2016. But there are Rhodes scholars who play football too. Honestly it depends a lot on the kid. If he can handle his major and practice and is intellectually gifted with a fantastic work ethic it can happen. But for a lot of guys who want to go pro or who want the degree but don’t want to work two full time jobs (one as a player one as a student) it makes sense to take a light major. Also, these guys have “limited practices” but are working out and doing other stuff a lot. Student athletes are really tasked with a lot.
 
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