Pats Re-sign C Ted Karras

tims4wins

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The problem isn’t pass blocking with Karras, he’s perfectly adequate. It’s that the Pats running game was terrible with him at center in 2019.

I don’t know how much blame he carries for that, but it was a lot better with Andrews back last season.
This is both true and untrue. Remember, they lost Wynn for most of the year too. Wynn returned in week 12 against Dallas. Here's the run game the rest of the year:
27-101-3.7
29-145-5.0
22-94-4.3
32-175-5.5
35-143-4.1
27-135-5.0
22-98-4.5
Tot: 194-891-4.6 or 27.7 per game for 127.3 per game

That's a pretty good running game.
 

Saints Rest

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The problem isn’t pass blocking with Karras, he’s perfectly adequate. It’s that the Pats running game was terrible with him at center in 2019.

I don’t know how much blame he carries for that, but it was a lot better with Andrews back last season.
My recollection from Bedard’s deep dives on the OLine was that Karras’ struggles come from his lack of athleticism in space. He just can’t get out there as quickly or as agilely as Andrews or Thuney or Mason (or Koppens). The Pats rely heavily on centers pulling or getting out in front of screens.
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
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The Pats running game suffered from a thousand cuts in 2019:

Michel was hurting, although he didn't miss any games. Wynn missed 8, and his replacements at LT were dumpster fires. The tight ends (LaCosse, Izzo, and Watson) couldn't block. Eluemonor was their swing tackle. Both fullbacks were lost for the season early on, including James Develin. And Karras was playing center for the first time.
 

SMU_Sox

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Jul 20, 2009
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Landon Dickerson from Alabama(via FSU and Rick Trickett old buddy of Dante) would be a perfect fit for the Patriots.
That may drop his value which would be good for the Patriots.
Full on agree.

Couple of things. So the reason Landon Dickerson is so interesting is because he can play OG or OC. You'd think a 6'6" guy like him would have the same leverage issues that Creed Humphrey does. Not at all. Dickerson plays like he is 6'01". He is almost always the low-man and can move DTs with relative ease. He is also someone who can get up to the second level quickly. He has played LT so he would be a guy that, in theory, BB would draft in the first 3 rounds. Dickerson also plays with a nasty AF disposition. In terms of team nasty on the OL Dickerson is one of the better ones. He is a scheme fit for gap-power and zone - the guy is versatile.

I've seen Morrissey, Drake Jackson, and Ryan McCollum play. I think all three could be day 3 targets.

Not a huge fan of Myers. Believe the difference in talent between him and others on day 3 is miniscule at best. I think the Ohio State OL get pumped up too much every year just because they go to a big program. Wyatt Davis is another guy who I just don't get.

If you read reports on Morrissey, Jackson, and McCollum they will probably all say outside zone or zone heavy scheme but the Patriots tend to go for undersized guys who get to the second level well.

Karras struggled because he couldn't get to the next level quickly enough. There are ways around that. You can have your guard be the one who shoots up to the next level instead of the center. You can basically scheme it so that the center is the guy who is making sure the DT/NT is moved out of the way while the guard helps combo block and then boogie up to the next level. I know that isn't always possible and sometimes the center has to be the one to make the block upfield but... if 4/5 other OL can run-block they should be OK. Plus they will have TE/FB support.
 

Shelterdog

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Full on agree.

Couple of things. So the reason Landon Dickerson is so interesting is because he can play OG or OC. You'd think a 6'6" guy like him would have the same leverage issues that Creed Humphrey does. Not at all. Dickerson plays like he is 6'01". He is almost always the low-man and can move DTs with relative ease. He is also someone who can get up to the second level quickly. He has played LT so he would be a guy that, in theory, BB would draft in the first 3 rounds. Dickerson also plays with a nasty AF disposition. In terms of team nasty on the OL Dickerson is one of the better ones. He is a scheme fit for gap-power and zone - the guy is versatile.

I've seen Morrissey, Drake Jackson, and Ryan McCollum play. I think all three could be day 3 targets.

Not a huge fan of Myers. Believe the difference in talent between him and others on day 3 is miniscule at best. I think the Ohio State OL get pumped up too much every year just because they go to a big program. Wyatt Davis is another guy who I just don't get.

If you read reports on Morrissey, Jackson, and McCollum they will probably all say outside zone or zone heavy scheme but the Patriots tend to go for undersized guys who get to the second level well.

Karras struggled because he couldn't get to the next level quickly enough. There are ways around that. You can have your guard be the one who shoots up to the next level instead of the center. You can basically scheme it so that the center is the guy who is making sure the DT/NT is moved out of the way while the guard helps combo block and then boogie up to the next level. I know that isn't always possible and sometimes the center has to be the one to make the block upfield but... if 4/5 other OL can run-block they should be OK. Plus they will have TE/FB support.
I love your posts and this one in particular. I’ll also point out that you’ve noticed something I’ve always been particularly struck by: often the smaller more mobile players are the better run blockers (I think in particular about Light or Solder, both light for left tackles, just getting out there or downfield on outside runs). The idea that the 340 pound guy does more in the run game than the 290 pound guess isn’t always so.

I asked up thread but do you have any draft guides or services that are personal faves? So many out there and I just want one.
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
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Yeah that's the old adage(? not sure if this is the right word) @Shelterdog your bigger centers (and IOLS) are better in pass pro but struggle with the run game whereas the lighter guys who don't have those anchors can be bullrushed into oblivion so they = better in run blocking but worse at pass pro. As for services?

PFF edge has a draft guide. That's $30 for the year. I pay for that. I also am a TDN premium member (the draft network). For IOL I would follow Brandon Thorn on Twitter. He is a must-read. Or if you want to PM me there is a slack channel you might like too...