You never have to apologize. I never played football so don't watch it with the view of someone who has, but I learn so much from you and all of your breakdowns.
Pats select Western Kentucky QB Bailey Zappe at 137
- Thread starter Eddie Jurak
- Start date
Not yet, but I saw him climb the pocket and step into more throws today better than Mac has this year. That it was the Lions’ awful defense is reason for a hard pause, but a lot to be encouraged and intrigued by from the kid.
I agree. And I'm never going to invest too much in one game. BUT...
He threw the ball down field and outside the numbers with much more confidence than we've seen from Mac. I'm sure that helps if there's 8 in the box against a shit defense, but I was way more impressed than I expected to be.
Someone said it last week, but this was the offense where Mac succeeded last year and, while I want him to expand his role further, they may want to strike more of a balance. He doesn't need to be throwing 18 checkdowns a game, but he also doesn't need to lead the league in air yards per throw.
I'll just reiterate no apologies necessary at all! The analysis you were giving was accurate and appreciated and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on Baily going forward. The Zappe fever was as much optimism around exploring his unknown potential than it was a statement on Bailey's play last week. I think the expectation for most of us given the situation, 3rd string rookie being THROWN into the fire AT LAMBEAU, was total calamity. The fact that it wasn't total calamity was enough for excitement. It was nice to have someone actually analyzing Zappe's play for what it was.
His pocket presence and decision making improving so much from the first week is a great sign. Though he was about as well protected as one can be in an NFL game so that doesn't necessarily mean too much either as you pointed out. Lions look like a bottom 5 passing defense, Cleveland doesn't look great, but seems more middle of the pack so far, should be a good test for him if he gets the nod.
I think this is a real possibility. I don't necessarily equate the problem to Mac throwing downfield too much, but I've been wondering if they just kind of handed Mac the keys this year and said "go run the offense," whereas they planned specifically to simplify things for Zappe (and for Mac last year). That's probably an overstatment but I do wonder if they could do more for Mac than they have.
Of course there are other differences. Detroit is the worst defense they haver played all year and they lost a bunch of DBs in the game, the Pats OL seems to be rounding into form, etc.
I don’t think there’s a QB controversy, but maybe they don’t rush Mac back now. Zappe throws a really nice ball though, floats a little less than Mac.
Super impressed, again this week, with his pocket awareness, read progression, and his ability to take care of the ball. The offense looks much better with him in there.
Obviously I'm not the biggest Mac fan and I thought Zappe would suck, but it's impressive how he's not just defaulting to the easy throw like Mac has been prone to do.
Obviously I'm not the biggest Mac fan and I thought Zappe would suck, but it's impressive how he's not just defaulting to the easy throw like Mac has been prone to do.
I also think the overall play calling has improved. Much more mixing in of play action, which is leading to Zappe having some open guys to throw to. Credit to Zappe for hitting them. But whether it was all Mac in the beginning or the new play callers finding out what works, the play calling against Detroit and Cleveland has seemed much better (and so has the execution).
View: https://twitter.com/NFLResearch/status/1581743014409404416
Bailey Zappe is the first rookie to win his first 2 career starts and record a 100+ passer rating in those games since Hall of Famer Sonny Jurgensen in 1957.
#ForeverNE @Patriots @ProFootballHOF
I think this performance was better or at least on par with Mac's best games last year. Won't compare it to 2022 because they were asking way more of Mac.
Maybe it’s me but I hate the Wally Pipp comments as it’s not funny at all. First we’ve all seen the clip and it’s not an inside joke or clever and it’s way over used here. Also with Mac Jones he clearly wants to get onto the field. It’s not the same context at all as it was with Welker.
A Bledsoe or Mo Lewis joke is way closer to the situation.
Yeah it’s more of a Bledsoe situation to me. Bledsoe didn’t do anything wrong, he just wasn’t the right fit for the offense at that point in time. When he was in, the offense lacked dynamism outside of the occasional laser throw or boom-or-bust play. It was inconsistent, whereas it found some consistency under a young Brady.
This feels more like that (putting what happened after that season, in terms of Brady becoming the GOAT, aside). Zappe could live 10,000 lifetimes and not see the success Tom Brady has had. But, purely from a “zero-expectations late-round QB seems to feel like a better fit for the team than the high-expectations first-round QB” standpoint, this QB situation - in a vacuum - does feel a lot like ‘01.
Mac is a fine kid. But if this keeps up he may be someone else’s fine kid.
This feels more like that (putting what happened after that season, in terms of Brady becoming the GOAT, aside). Zappe could live 10,000 lifetimes and not see the success Tom Brady has had. But, purely from a “zero-expectations late-round QB seems to feel like a better fit for the team than the high-expectations first-round QB” standpoint, this QB situation - in a vacuum - does feel a lot like ‘01.
Mac is a fine kid. But if this keeps up he may be someone else’s fine kid.
Lighten up Francis
Wally Pipp as a verb is a thing much bigger than one Patriots soundbite. Wally Piip, you know the guy that it is named after, wanted to play too, and played 372 games after the Yankees replaced him. Also the wordplay words ending in pp, works much better than being Beldosed.
You want MAc to keep his job, fine, but the jokes are not out of line.
Im actually 50/50 on Mac /Zappe so I have no bias here outside of the Pipp joke being overused and stale after only a few weeks. It’s like it’s coming out of the Edelman Comedy Club. I’d prefer Zappe starts next week for the record.
The only reason it’s brought up here is the BB comment to Welker.
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The only reason Bledsoe is brought up is also BB. Otherwise we'd say Mac has been Romoed.
This was Tweeted out 2 years ago by one of the best college football handicappers and talent evaluators out there. I think it’s time to look back and recognize that Zappe isn’t some cute little Gardner Minshew-like story. This kid almost singlehanded upset Texas Tech when he was at Houston Baptist then destroyed every defense he played during his one year at Western Kentucky. I’m all-in!
I’m catching up on some highlights from the parts of the game I missed….. getting a little excited fellas, he seems to have some real zip, makes quick reads, can move pretty well in the pocket, and he’s winning.
Also.. I don't know if the play calling has just changed, but for the first time all year the TEs were used significantly all game. Not sure what's been happening this year but it's felt like Mac hasn't found the TEs all year.
The only reason it's brought up is because it's a historical reference that everyone on this board knows since it's mainly a baseball board. It has nothing at all to do with BB and Welker.
Yeah, gotta say, it's odd to think that there are folks who hear "Wally Pipp" and think "Welker!" rather than "Lou Gehrig!"
Didn't they run an Air Raid offense with 4 WR and 1 RB most of the time at WSU? That would explain it.
Yes, very strange.
No one that brings it up is primarily referring to Welker/BB. It’s one random NFL Films clip some Pats fans might have seen, no one cares.
It’s a pretty widely known sports example of a backup taking over, out performing the starter, and never giving the job back. That’s it.
Looking forward to them playing this song when Zappe meets Roger to collect the SuperBowl trophy
View: https://youtu.be/X1ijvN7ADt4
View: https://youtu.be/X1ijvN7ADt4
Exactly. Also, to complete the thought, it should be noted that Welker caught 449 passes for 5119 yards in 61 regular season games after that clip from A Football Life. Good enough for 2 All-Pro and 3 Pro Bowl nominations, fwiw.
That was kinda my point. It wasn’t as if this was a “Zappe change” in philosophy
My understanding of that clip is that is that Welker/Belichick were specifically talking about the "job" of punt returner, not the general idea of playing football. Welker tore his ACL late in 2009 (week 17, I think?) and Edelman did ultimately take over the return duties. The clip is from the 2009 pre-season (right?) and they were trying Edelman out in the return game, as a rookie.
Does anyone know where to get counts of personnel packages by team by game? There are posts about the game plan being different for Mac and Zappe, that the comparison is apples and oranges. Were Mac's games mostly 1 TE sets? Zolak had been pining for play-action during Mac's games.
I'd be interested to see if/when Mac plays again, if they go with the apples game plan or the oranges game plan.
I also wouldn't be surprised if BB says let's keep rolling with what's working as a whole, the enchilada of Zappe + Zappe-friendly game plan. This would in the end not be a simple Mac-vs-Zappe choice.
I'd be interested to see if/when Mac plays again, if they go with the apples game plan or the oranges game plan.
I also wouldn't be surprised if BB says let's keep rolling with what's working as a whole, the enchilada of Zappe + Zappe-friendly game plan. This would in the end not be a simple Mac-vs-Zappe choice.
One point Lazar makes that is worth some emphasis is how much more frequently Zappe was under center than Mac has been this year, which (I think) facilitates both the running game and play action. When Mac comes back, I hope he is under center and they run play action with more frequency.
Huh, the BMZ.
I think Mac's going to start when he's healthy, but boy it's been fun to watch Zappe the last two weeks. He seems at worst to be a legit NFL backup. Given his poise and command only 2+ games in, there's potential for real growth too. There were a lot of nice throws laced all over the field to a wide number of receivers. Forget the competition - it's a great start regardless.
I think Mac's going to start when he's healthy, but boy it's been fun to watch Zappe the last two weeks. He seems at worst to be a legit NFL backup. Given his poise and command only 2+ games in, there's potential for real growth too. There were a lot of nice throws laced all over the field to a wide number of receivers. Forget the competition - it's a great start regardless.
If you squint hard enough, and took an extra shot of homer juice, you can make the case that we drafted the best QB each of the last two years.
Just want to say how good Lazar's breakdowns are. Good to hear he's got the fever.
