Pats sign WR Nelson Agholor

Otto

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Are other teams doing this?
Yes, and the players are willing to do it (in theory) because the non-guaranteed/increased base in year 2 comes at a time that the cap will go up and teams will be spending more - so that isn't just a dummy year if the player could easily replace it in the market. Caveat: I haven't seen Algolor's deal yet, so I don't know if that report is accurate.

However, what it does is make the player earn his year 2 money with his year 1 play, so its still team friendly from that perspective. After year 1, if it makes sense, the team and player can rework/extend the contract, guarantee the year 2 salary, and extend the contract to fix the cap hit.
 

JM3

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Yes, and the players are willing to do it (in theory) because the non-guaranteed/increased base in year 2 comes at a time that the cap will go up and teams will be spending more - so that isn't just a dummy year if the player could easily replace it in the market. Caveat: I haven't seen Algolor's deal yet, so I don't know if that report is accurate.

However, what it does is make the player earn his year 2 money with his year 1 play, so its still team friendly from that perspective. After year 1, if it makes sense, the team and player can rework/extend the contract, guarantee the year 2 salary, and extend the contract to fix the cap hit.
The other reason the players would do it is they will be getting a nice large signing bonus check, meaning if they were cut after 1 year they would have gotten a huge 1-year payday, & also that the team would be loath to cut them because cutting them would cost more than keeping them (in the 3+ year contracts), or the team will have given them very big $ in 1 year on a down cap year (in the 2 year contracts).
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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https://nesn.com/2021/03/patriots-newcomers-contract-among-pffs-overrated-offseason-deals/

The numbers in this article seem to go against a lot of what was said in this thread. I’m not sure if the writer has terrible sources or what? 15% drop rate seems ridiculous as well as him ranking 73rd out of 74 receivers for the previous 5 years. Pretty sure it’s trash but wanted to share so that the little voice in the deep corner of my brain asking “what if that’s correct?” can be put to rest.
 

Cellar-Door

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https://nesn.com/2021/03/patriots-newcomers-contract-among-pffs-overrated-offseason-deals/

The numbers in this article seem to go against a lot of what was said in this thread. I’m not sure if the writer has terrible sources or what? 15% drop rate seems ridiculous as well as him ranking 73rd out of 74 receivers for the previous 5 years. Pretty sure it’s trash but wanted to share so that the little voice in the deep corner of my brain asking “what if that’s correct?” can be put to rest.
PFF uses a drop rate that's wildly different from anyone else. If I remember right it's that they decide what is catchable different from everyone else, and anything catchable that you don't catch is a drop. I don't have the full list, but looking back at their highlight lists, they have a lot of really good deep threats (like Randy Moss and Amari Cooper) high on the past lists.

On the other hand PFF may have had a high drop rate for him, but also had him with a terrific overall grade last year.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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PFF uses a drop rate that's wildly different from anyone else. If I remember right it's that they decide what is catchable different from everyone else, and anything catchable that you don't catch is a drop. I don't have the full list, but looking back at their highlight lists, they have a lot of really good deep threats (like Randy Moss and Amari Cooper) high on the past lists.

On the other hand PFF may have had a high drop rate for him, but also had him with a terrific overall grade last year.
I remain blown away that weve allowed PFF to infiltrate our sanctum. They're full of shit.

Wheres @Smiling Joe Hesketh when you need him?
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Very happy to hear that people have come around on PFF. I was beating that drum years ago. Appreciate the backup on thinking that piece and it’s sources are nothing to be concerned about. I can put that voice to bed.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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I remain blown away that weve allowed PFF to infiltrate our sanctum. They're full of shit.

Wheres @Smiling Joe Hesketh when you need him?
PFF is OK for actual counting stats, although if they're using a weird drop rate then I dunno what kind of feces-throwing rhesus chimps they have doing the counting.

Their actual grades and analytics are garbage.

I won't ban mention of them, only a few things are banned outright on this site. Just keep in mind their ratings are highly suspect.
 

Al Zarilla

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Agholor voice track on Good Morning Football just now saying he's looking forward to catching passes from the "QB1". "He's a great quarterback and MVP he will push me and everything else great." Is that a thing, "the QB1"?

Great attitudes abound from all the new guys. Let's go!
 

DJnVa

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Over Guapo Grande

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Agholor voice track on Good Morning Football just now saying he's looking forward to catching passes from the "QB1". "He's a great quarterback and MVP he will push me and everything else great." Is that a thing, "the QB1"?

Great attitudes abound from all the new guys. Let's go!
I took QB1 to mean Newton... Being that his number is 1 and all? That and MVP, etc... So like there is TB12, there is QB1
 

SMU_Sox

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PFF ratings for offensive line are solid. I find they are usually ok for offensive run blocking in general. Where I see issues with PFF is their defensive grades. Their defensive grades when they don’t know responsibilities are not well thought out. They also tend to grade guys who are 2 gapping or doing the dirty work lower then guys who end up with the tackle or result. They don’t adjust for level of competition or if what was asked of a guy was hard or not. If an OL doesn’t reach a hard to make cutoff block that’s the same grade as an OL who loses 1:1 on a drive block. GTFOH.
 

normstalls

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QB1 simply means the starting quarterback. The term is not new and not unique to Cam.
Especially common in HS football (see Friday Night Lights)
 

Over Guapo Grande

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Would a wide receiver, though, say "I am looking forward to catching passes from a starting Quarterback".... rather than the specific QB who wears #1 and was MVP (as he also mentioned in the quote)?
 

DJnVa

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Would a wide receiver, though, say "I am looking forward to catching passes from a starting Quarterback".... rather than the specific QB who wears #1 and was MVP (as he also mentioned in the quote)?
I literally just showed you that the Bears used it to refer to Andy Dalton, who does not wear number 1. It's a term used in football. You can continue to wonder why or accept that you've learned something today.

OF COURSE he was referring to Cam. We all know that, but if Cam was wearing #2, he could still be called QB1.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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I literally just showed you that the Bears used it to refer to Andy Dalton, who does not wear number 1. It's a term used in football. You can continue to wonder why or accept that you've learned something today.

OF COURSE he was referring to Cam. We all know that, but if Cam was wearing #2, he could still be called QB1.
My mind is made up. Don't confuse me with the facts.
 

slamminsammya

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What do people make of his 2021? The numbers are obviously disappointing, but he led the team in yards per target, and especially early in the season it seemed like a lot of his targets that were incompletions were bad throws by Mac. Was his relatively low targets due to him not getting open? To what extent were his results driven by the routes they had him running and Mac's prediliction for checkdowns especially early in the season?
 

tims4wins

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From seeing this post bumped I thought he was getting released, hah.



That's Bourne.
Ha you weren't the only one.

I think his presence helped stretch defenses even if his targets and catches were down. If he isn't cut, I could see a big jump in his numbers next year as Mac gets more comfortable with progressions, taking longer to throw, deep shots, double moves, etc. He was an overpay and there's no arguing that point, but I think he helped more than his numbers on the surface show.
 

RG33

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Ha you weren't the only one.

I think his presence helped stretch defenses even if his targets and catches were down. If he isn't cut, I could see a big jump in his numbers next year as Mac gets more comfortable with progressions, taking longer to throw, deep shots, double moves, etc. He was an overpay and there's no arguing that point, but I think he helped more than his numbers on the surface show.
I agree with this. He was an overpay and he didn’t put up numbers last year. However, this offense really wasn’t geared to someone like him getting a ton of targets in the first place, nevermind a rookie QB in there with an average arm. I think with another year in this offense, an improved Mac10, and hopefully some more weapons on offense, Agholor can be a nice piece to the puzzle.
 

SMU_Sox

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I think they left a lot of meat on the bone with him. He was open a few times down the field where if Mac made the throw he has 100-130+ yards and 3 more TDs. He’s been mediocre as an intermediate route runner but downfield he’s been very good.
 

Ferm Sheller

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I think we'll see an improvement from all non-Harry, non-Gunner receivers if they're able to land a true #1.
 

SMU_Sox

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Agholor is also a competent X with speed. Even as an overpay there is no one on the roster who can do what he does. I’d love if they added a developmental X this year with plus speed and who will be a ST stud and/or returner. I think X is a 2023 need and you want those guys to have a year to develop.
 

Cellar-Door

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What do people make of his 2021? The numbers are obviously disappointing, but he led the team in yards per target, and especially early in the season it seemed like a lot of his targets that were incompletions were bad throws by Mac. Was his relatively low targets due to him not getting open? To what extent were his results driven by the routes they had him running and Mac's prediliction for checkdowns especially early in the season?
He basically produced what he has in recent years on a per target basis. He just got way fewer targets. He was a few better throws from a lot more yards and TDs, he draws attention. I expect next year he'll do the same, and depending on targets get anywhere from 500 to 900 yards with 4 to 8 TDs.
 

Jungleland

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As much as I hated the signing and his cap hit is one of their more problematic for the coming year, he's not a terrible player, just a mediocre one. In regards to him drawing attention, I thought they dearly missed him in the second Buffalo game and it made me consider a bit that his positive contributions might have been overlooked while things were going well this year. I think it goes without saying to hope he's further down the depth chart this fall, but I feel fine about the chance for him to be a contributor in the offense, especially so if Mac improves.
 

k-factory

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I think it would be a big mistake to invest in skill players on the offense this offseason. Could they use game changer receivers? Of course - who couldn’t? If you can swing a Ridley trade or a low cost gamble fine - but this is a pretty good offense that’s going to get better. This offense dropped two(!) fifty-burgers on teams this year (all points scored by offense). Maybe they weren’t good teams but it’s the NFL.

Jonnu is too good to be a total bust and Mac’s going to improve his rapport with his current receivers. They have to sort out their long term left tackle situation but Wynn could be good enough. I bet Brown stays at reasonable $ and Onwenu will have a spot. If Stevenson becomes a bigger pass catching threat and they can get a leap from Taylor or an adequate comeback from White this can be a dangerous offense.

The reality is the D was kinda smoke and mirrors. They really need to get younger, improve run defense at the line and bolster man to man skills in the secondary. They don’t invest there then the kind of ball control offense this team wants to run just won’t work. Throw the first three picks and whatever limited free agent $ they have at this problem. The offense will be fine.
 

Eddie Jurak

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What they really missed this year was an Edelman type. I think Agholor did what the Pats needed him to do, and it isn't his fault that they didn't get him the ball more.
 

SMU_Sox

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I’m not sure Jonnu is too good to be a bust. He’s never had 500 yards receiving. He was more of a schemed targets guy in Tennessee and even though he blocked in-line he was often chipping and then taking on ILBs or blocking smaller faster pass rushers. In New England they want him to take on the Cam Jordans of the world often 1:1 and usually to disastrous results. I think they screwed up their eval on him and what he is capable of as both a route running receiver and as an in-line guy.
 

rodderick

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I’m not sure Jonnu is too good to be a bust. He’s never had 500 yards receiving. He was more of a schemed targets guy in Tennessee and even though he blocked in-line he was often chipping and then taking on ILBs or blocking smaller faster pass rushers. In New England they want him to take on the Cam Jordans of the world often 1:1 and usually to disastrous results. I think they screwed up their eval on him and what he is capable of as both a route running receiver and as an in-line guy.
Yeah, Jonnu looks like the exact type of player BB avoids: gadget guy who can't really win consistently within the structure of the offense without you drawing up plays specifically to get him in space. As of now he's an expensive version of 2018 Cordarelle Patterson.
 
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IMO, this offense ABSOLUTELY needs playmakers. I would trade our set of receivng weapons for those of any other team in the division. You find a way to land a legit #1 and a legit #2 over the next couple of off-seasons, and have Meyers and Bourne continue to develop...then you have something. As it is right now, the team has a wide-ish spectrum of two or three #3 WRs on the depth chart. They need help.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yeah, Jonnu looks like the exact type of player BB avoids: gadget guy who can't really win consistently within the structure of the offense without you drawing up plays specifically to get him in space. As of now he's an expensive version of 2018 Cordarelle Patterson.
Counter to that is that's what Deebo Samuel was too, and Patterson was great for ATL this year. If you have a guy who does well in schemed plays, scheme him plays. A lot of the best offense in the NFL is about getting playmakers in space and letting them make a play. Jonnu averaged 8.3 YAC/R, that's very very good, they need to make an effort to get him the ball in space more consistently. It's a real strength, and playing to guys' strengths is what coaching is supposed to be about.
 

k-factory

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IMO, this offense ABSOLUTELY needs playmakers. I would trade our set of receivng weapons for those of any other team in the division. You find a way to land a legit #1 and a legit #2 over the next couple of off-seasons, and have Meyers and Bourne continue to develop...then you have something. As it is right now, the team has a wide-ish spectrum of two or three #3 WRs on the depth chart. They need help.
Of course playmakers would be nice. And maybe BB has a deal up his sleeve. But BB made some bets last offseason. Henry and Bourne exceeded expectations while Jonnu and Agholor failed to meet them...with a rookie QB.
My point is I would not fault BB to squint and see a better future next year with this same personnel because he’s got a much bigger problem on the other side of the ball. Allen and Mahomes are not going away and if your run D and man coverage is a sieve then no playmaker is going to solve that. Well…maybe Ja’Marr Chase but you’re not getting him at 21 and the risk is too great you squander shoring up the D you need to keep you in games while Mac is cheap.