Payton Pritchard drafted #26 overall

lovegtm

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With Tatum out, we’re going to see PP stretched pretty hard. I’m guessing we’ll see some growing pains, but it’s useful for him to go through that now imo.
 

radsoxfan

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So of course Steve Nash is beyond a ceiling comp, PP will be beyond lucky to ever be in any MVP discussion.

But I do think they actually play very similarly. Great handle, short area quickness, shooting, always probing the defense. Soccer style basketball as has been mentioned before.

Nash was WCC and PP was Pac 12, but both 4 year college players and interesting comparison with the college numbers. Nash picked #15, Pritchard picked #26.



Nash:
Career:
Pts: 14.9
Ast: 4.5
Reb: 3.1
FG%: 43%
3Pt%: 40%
Ft%: 87%

Pritchard:
Career:
Pts: 14.5
Ast: 4.6
Reb: 3.8
FG%: 44%
3Pt%: 38%
Ft%: 80%


Nash
Best season (junior):
Pts: 20.9
Ast: 6.4
Reb: 3.8
FG%: 44%
3Pt%: 45%
Ft%: 88%

Pritchard
Best season (senior):
Pts: 20.5
Ast: 5.5
Reb: 3.6
FG%: 44%
3Pt%: 42%
Ft%: 82%
 
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lovegtm

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So of course Steve Nash is beyond a ceiling comp, PP will be beyond lucky to ever be in any MVP discussion.

But I do think they actually play very similarly. Great handle, short area quickness, shooting, always probing the defense. Soccer style basketball as has been mentioned before.

Nash was WCC and PP was Pac 12, but both 4 year college players and interesting comparison with the college numbers. Nash picked #15, Pritchard picked #26.



Nash:

Career:
Pts: 14.9
Ast: 4.5
Reb: 3.1
FG%: 43%
3Pt%: 40%
Ft%: 87%

Best season (junior):
Pts: 20.9
Ast: 6.4
Reb: 3.8
FG%: 44%
3Pt%: 45%
Ft%: 88%


Pritchard:

Career:
Pts: 14.5
Ast: 4.6
Reb: 3.8
FG%: 44%
3Pt%: 38%
Ft%: 80%

Best season (senior):
Pts: 20.5
Ast: 5.5
Reb: 3.6
FG%: 44%
3Pt%: 42%
Ft%: 82%
As I mentioned upthread, it was really interesting to me how long PP’s comps took to get good, even though they were basically all drafted old. He’s fairly ahead of the curve both statistically and eyetest.
 

nighthob

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High end? What about a Tim Hardaway or a smaller Mitch Rixhmond or Michael Redd? But making any All-NBA teams (let alone multiple) seems like a dream case scenario.

I'll settle (as in realistic best case) for Terry Porter or a non-coked up Eddie Johnson.
It was the coke that gave Eddie Johnson his superpowers.
 

lostjumper

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PP plays like he's been in the league for 5 years already. He's calm, the game seems to have already slowed down for him, and you can see his teammates already trust him. I don't know what his ceiling is, but his floor seems to be a 12 year vet who's the first guard off the bench.
 

TripleOT

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PP is the perfect PG to put with Brown and Tatum long term. Great range to spread the floor. Can take advantage of mismatched if getting the ball back on any pick/roll action with either Jay. Competitive enough on defense to switch out top on wings. Tremendous handle and solid passing ability on drives. Ability to probe under the basket with the dribble, to collapse a defense. Affordable
 

lovegtm

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PP is the perfect PG to put with Brown and Tatum long term. Great range to spread the floor. Can take advantage of mismatched if getting the ball back on any pick/roll action with either Jay. Competitive enough on defense to switch out top on wings. Tremendous handle and solid passing ability on drives. Ability to probe under the basket with the dribble, to collapse a defense. Affordable
I'm also shocked at how well he holds up on defense. The dude is really strong and understands what he is supposed to do. I did not see that coming.
 

lovegtm

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Yeah, "pesky" describes him well on defense. His inferior speed/lack of height hurts him, but he can be pretty disruptive.
He is surprisingly good at holding ground when a bigger guy catches him in a postup on the perimeter. That alone gets you a lot of the way as a small guard, because there just aren't many guys outside of Durant/Middleton and a few others who can just shoot over you at a good enough rate.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I’m really impressed by his shooting so far. 44% from deep on the year, of course SSS and likely not sustainable, but he has shown that he has a ton of range and can hit threes off the dribble. That stepback in the corner last night was pretty nasty.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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One of the most, I dunno, intuitive rookies I’ve seen? He has all those little moves, whether it’s the Rondo-esque pivot in the paint to find an open layup, or that lefty pass off the bounce...he just has a knack for understanding not only how to break down his individual defender but also an awareness of where his teammates are at all times and how to work the defense to get them the ball.

This is an underrated skill but he is also a very good long passer. Despite being short he is able to find the cross court passes that can be so easy to tip/steal, but if you can swing it, it really moves a defense.

Usually when a rookie is on the floor you’re just looking for improvement and seeing him adjust to the NBA game and make some good plays, etc. With Pritchard it’s like “Ok time to go win the game now.” Crazy.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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This is an underrated skill but he is also a very good long passer. Despite being short he is able to find the cross court passes that can be so easy to tip/steal, but if you can swing it, it really moves a defense.
The left hand pass to Theis for a dunk was great. He's made a few passes that made me say Wow! Love not only his vision but his ability to get the ball over or through defenders.
 

Imbricus

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I've been a big booster, and I've been watching him closely. One thing I've noticed is that he has an excellent sense of who's around him, and where, and what they're thinking of doing. Consequently, he has relatively few turnovers for a rookie (0 last night in 25 minutes, while Anthony had 5 for Orlando). Also, even though he's taken the ball inside a few times, I don't think he's had his shot blocked (maybe once?). He uses his butt and strength well, to create a little space when he gets near the basket (like Van Vleet or Lowry). Sometimes, when the defense collapses, he'll sling it outside to an open three-point shooter.

To my eye, he has excellent point guard vision and instincts, and I think the Celtics needed that (in a young player) even more than they needed shooting. He can get an offense going. That's critical.
 

TripleOT

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Orlando made a run to get the lead, and PP quashed that run with a couple of big threes. The previous game, the Wiz made a big run to close within four points, and he hit a big three to demoralize them, with one of their players slamming the ball in frustration after WAS called a timeout.

This is what veteran PGs do, and rookies in their 11th game usually don’t do.
 

pantsparty

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His ceiling isn't crazy high because of his age - despite being a rookie, he's a month older than Tatum - but wow does he have an impressive floor. If you're drafting a 4 year senior he's everything you hope for - someone who's ready to be part of the rotation from day 1. He reminds me of Grant Williams in that it's immediately apparent that he's going to stick around the league for over a decade because despite some physical limitations there's just so many things they do right.
 

luckiestman

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His ceiling isn't crazy high because of his age - despite being a rookie, he's a month older than Tatum - but wow does he have an impressive floor. If you're drafting a 4 year senior he's everything you hope for - someone who's ready to be part of the rotation from day 1. He reminds me of Grant Williams in that it's immediately apparent that he's going to stick around the league for over a decade because despite some physical limitations there's just so many things they do right.
What is the physical limitation? Height?
 

pantsparty

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What is the physical limitation? Height?
For both of them, yes. Wikipedia says an average PG is in the 6'2"-6'4" range. Kemba is 6'0" and makes up for any defensive problems by being amazing on offense. Pritchard is 6'1". Grant is 6'6" which is hilariously undersized for a center, and still pretty small for a PF.
 

radsoxfan

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PP's career > GWill's career. You heard it here first.

PP isn't super athletic but he doesn't have the same physical limitations playing PG that hold Grant back at PF.
 

lovegtm

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There are so many examples of older PGs getting really good over the course of their careers that I don’t think you can cap PP’s ceiling because of age.

Go look at the BBRefs for Van Vleet, Dragic, and Nash. Could probably find more; those are just the immediate guys who come to mind.

No guarantees PP will become that, but age won’t be the reason if he falls short.
 

OnTheBlack

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His athleticism isn’t elite but his handle is. His athleticism plays way up because of this. He has shown he can consistently break people down off the dribble and probe/collapse the defense. Combine that with good shooting (maybe great? Early days but it’s good and improvement is a reasonable expectation) and he has the base tools required to be a top shelf pg. Vision and passing are the other core tools that also play up further given the aforementioned ability and those look solid too. With starter minutes he’d be going toe to toe with ball on counting stats for a rookie and his efficiency is better. Ceiling is interesting to talk about but the floor is established and it’s already a very, very useful player.
 

Euclis20

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His athleticism isn’t elite but his handle is. His athleticism plays way up because of this. He has shown he can consistently break people down off the dribble and probe/collapse the defense. Combine that with good shooting (maybe great? Early days but it’s good and improvement is a reasonable expectation) and he has the base tools required to be a top shelf pg. Vision and passing are the other core tools that also play up further given the aforementioned ability and those look solid too. With starter minutes he’d be going toe to toe with ball on counting stats for a rookie and his efficiency is better. Ceiling is interesting to talk about but the floor is established and it’s already a very, very useful player.
Let's not go overboard. Neither guy has started a game yet, they play almost the same minutes (25.4 for Ball, 23.1 for Pritchard). Per 36 minutes, Pritchard is averaging a very solid 14.5/4/4.8, while Ball is averaging an unbelievable 16.8/9.8/8.9. Pritchard has been more efficient, but then he's on a better team and is nearly 4 years older. Pritchard looks like he'll be a real solid role player and likely a competent starter alongside the Jays one day, but Ball is looking like a superstar in the making.
 

benhogan

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His athleticism isn’t elite but his handle is. His athleticism plays way up because of this. He has shown he can consistently break people down off the dribble and probe/collapse the defense. Combine that with good shooting (maybe great? Early days but it’s good and improvement is a reasonable expectation) and he has the base tools required to be a top shelf pg. Vision and passing are the other core tools that also play up further given the aforementioned ability and those look solid too. With starter minutes he’d be going toe to toe with ball on counting stats for a rookie and his efficiency is better. Ceiling is interesting to talk about but the floor is established and it’s already a very, very useful player.
Pretty spot on, but @Euclis20 is correct, no reason to comp him with Ball (or some asinine 10yr comp w/Grant :rolleyes: )

Pritchard is the right player, at the right time for the Celtics. His age matches up with JayCrew, and he understands his role (which will grow) within the rotation. I was skeptical of Payton's Oregon clutch shooting reputation (figured it was draft happy talk). BUT we have witnessed it several times in-game where the Celtics look stale on offense, lead shrinking and he nails a couple of 3s or gone straight to the rim. High leverage/game situation doesn't seem to faze him, he has some rookie Herro moxie.

It's fun seeing him enter games and would like to see PP run the offense more when on the floor. He provides an offensive buzz, from the bench, which the Celtics have lacked for years. His handle opens up a ton of offense for himself. BUT more importantly, he'll create paint touches and kick-outs to Brown/Tatum/Kemba for step-in 3s (and for Semi/Grant on the 2nd unit). I'd expect his assist numbers to eventually skyrocket.
 

pjheff

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His ceiling isn't crazy high because of his age - despite being a rookie, he's a month older than Tatum
Would our perception of his ceiling be different if he had come out of college after his freshman year and was playing this way in his fourth NBA season?
 

lovegtm

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Would our perception of his ceiling be different if he had come out of college after his freshman year and was playing this way in his fourth NBA season?
The answer is probably yes (although I see people arguing that Tatum has less upside than you’d expect since he’s been in the league a long time. Shrug).

The main point is that amount of recent growth is likely a better predictor of how close a guy is to his ceiling: guys who just improved a lot are more likely to improve some more than guys who are stalled out, regardless of age. (Wiggins, Andrew)
 

Cesar Crespo

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Let's not go overboard. Neither guy has started a game yet, they play almost the same minutes (25.4 for Ball, 23.1 for Pritchard). Per 36 minutes, Pritchard is averaging a very solid 14.5/4/4.8, while Ball is averaging an unbelievable 16.8/9.8/8.9. Pritchard has been more efficient, but then he's on a better team and is nearly 4 years older. Pritchard looks like he'll be a real solid role player and likely a competent starter alongside the Jays one day, but Ball is looking like a superstar in the making.
I think it will take awhile for some of the board to come around on LaMelo. He's going to be a special player.

Would our perception of his ceiling be different if he had come out of college after his freshman year and was playing this way in his fourth NBA season?
Maybe? It depends what he did in his first 3 seasons. If there wasn't much year to year improvement, probably not.

Terry Rozier has been brought up a few times, and while he came out after his sophomore year, I don't think anyone was readjusting their ceilings after his 3rd and 4th year here. It looks like maybe we should have, though.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/roziete01.html
 

k-factory

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Beyond stats you can just see him electrify the second unit. It’s a shame that Robert Williams is out right now because those two were developing some serious chemistry. Stevens is going to stick with the stagger rotation but between Semi’s new shot and drive instincts, Timelord’s improved pick and roll and increased awareness, even Javonte’s electricity - all work together so nicely with Pritchard dictating flow and speed of the second unit. Green tinted glasses and all but this is now a relentless athletic squad that will be a very tough out.
 

radsoxfan

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Mechanism was more MCL than ACL.

Unfortunately, the severe MCL mechanism injuries can sometimes also tear the ACL. In that case of course he's out for the year.

Hope its just an ugly looking MCL sprain and he's only out 4-6 weeks.
 

128

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No news is ... good news? Bad news?

Presumably Pritchard got an MRI first thing this morning, if not after arriving back in Boston last nite. The C's are taking their sweet time with an update.
 

Cesar Crespo

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That's... awesome.

edit: Actually reading the article, maybe less awesome.

“I don’t know beyond that. I’m sure there’s tests and stuff set up for (Saturday).”