Penn State AD and Sandusky Charged

singaporesoxfan

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Quick question: What was it that caused the Grand Jury to investigate Sandusky in the first place? (I don't think I have the stomach to read the report.)
 
Sep 27, 2004
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It's to try to do something positive out of a horrible situation and unite to give attention to the Blue Ribbon Campaign against child abuse, which isn't new and has existed for 22 years. If that's sick, I don't know what to tell you.
Here's the thing: bringing "attention" to child abuse is fine and noble. It's not much of a gesture in my book since everyone knows it happens, but whatever. Nothing wrong with trying to bring it out in the open. But not when there were MANY real world opportunities to stop actual, known child abuse going on in your own community and you not only did nothing about it, but you protected the perpetrator so that you could continue to profit financially. That is what is sick.

PS. If it was my school, I would be wild with anger -- not just at what happened and didn't happen -- but that people who worked and went to my alma mater are grotesquely sullying the reputation of what was at one time a respected university by their continued insistence that Paterno did enough and shouldn't go.
 

DLew On Roids

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It's all the good he's done that makes this a tragedy in the original sense. This is some fucking King Lear shit right here. Fatal flaw, the seeds of our downfall planted in what brings us success, &c.

Jennifer Rubin of the Washington Post has a post up suggesting that Penn State football should be disbanded immediately and permanently. Now, Rubin is batshit crazy, but to think even a week ago that someone would be able to suggest it? Wow.

Edit: I knew these PSU students supporting Paterno were douchebags, but I never realized they'd sink this low:

 

Infield Infidel

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Here's the thing: bringing "attention" to child abuse is fine and noble. It's not much of a gesture in my book since everyone knows it happens, but whatever. Nothing wrong with trying to bring it out in the open. But not when there were MANY real world opportunities to stop actual, known child abuse going on in your own community and you not only did nothing about it, but you protected the perpetrator so that you could continue to profit financially. That is what is sick.
This is a very confusing post. Who's the "you" here? The fans, or Paterno? I don't think Paterno is the one pushing the blue-out. And I don't think the fans knew about or protected Sandusky.

Whatever happens, this is going to be the weirdest game-day atmosphere ever.
 

behindthepen

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Infield Infidel said:
You know, they should just cancel the game! and cancel football! then everyone will forget about this and it'll all be better! Let's go play backgammon!

Forget about JoePa. Forget about the coaches, admin, etc. They're all scumbags in this, that's understood.

There are 80 something kids playing this game. There's a whole other team playing too. There are probably 15-25 seniors for whom this'll be their last home game. This shit is already super fucked up for them, so there's nothing wrong with giving them at least an oasis to do what they do.
I know it's a home game, and given Nebraska is also ranked its important in terms of football, but this has the makings of a complete disaster. Especially if Paternos has the balls to show up.
 

sfip

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Here's the thing: bringing "attention" to child abuse is fine and noble. It's not much of a gesture in my book since everyone knows it happens, but whatever. Nothing wrong with trying to bring it out in the open. But not when there were MANY real world opportunities to stop actual, known child abuse going on in your own community and you not only did nothing about it, but you protected the perpetrator so that you could continue to profit financially. That is what is sick.
The people who started the facebook page and are supporting it are the people I was referring to in my original post. They're not the ones who protected the perpretrator to continue to profit financially.

Skrub, I'd certainly understand if Paterno wasn't allowed to coach Saturday. At the same time I wish he'd have more of a chance to speak. I don't know how genuine he was when he said he was looking forward to talking at the press conference about what happened. Was it PR speak because he knew the conference was canceled, and given that he never looks forward to speaking at press conferences? Was it genuine because he wanted to give more of his side of the story but Spanier and others were too afraid Paterno would say things they'd regret? I really don't know. Maybe some of both.
 

twibnotes

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Quick question: What was it that caused the Grand Jury to investigate Sandusky in the first place? (I don't think I have the stomach to read the report.)
It was more recent activity that took place at a high school (where Sandusky helped coach football) that triggered the investigation.

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-07/justice/justice_pennsylvania-coach-abuse-timeline_1_grand-jury-report-young-boy-jerry-sandusky/3?_s=PM:JUSTICE
 

Infield Infidel

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It's all the good he's done that makes this a tragedy in the original sense. This is some fucking King Lear shit right here. Fatal flaw, the seeds of our downfall planted in what brings us success, &c.
This.

Jennifer Rubin of the Washington Post has a post up suggesting that Penn State football should be disbanded immediately and permanently. Now, Rubin is batshit crazy, but to think even a week ago that someone would be able to suggest it? Wow.
Yeah, completely unthinkable a week ago. It won't happen though. They'll clean house. but after they clean house, they are going to have an awful time getting anyone good to coach there. In irony of ironies, would even Al Golden leave Miami's impending doomsday for this?
 
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This is a very confusing post. Who's the "you" here? The fans, or Paterno? I don't think Paterno is the one pushing the blue-out. And I don't think the fans knew about or protected Sandusky.

Whatever happens, this is going to be the weirdest game-day atmosphere ever.
The "you" is the school administration, Paterno, McQueary and whoever else knew about Sandusky and did nothing to stop it. If that encompasses others in the city, then so be it. I don't know if it does, but I have a hard time believing that only a handful of people knew for 15+ years.
 

sfip

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I don't agree that the good outweighs his mistakes/at worst intentional coverup, but even assuming it does, is now really the best time to honor the man and his legacy, with child abuse victims coming forward, with the perp still free? Paterno is in no way a victim, and that was what was galling about the show of support.
I understand what you're saying and why you feel it's galling but it's not that Paterno is a victim. Penn Staters are giving support to him at a time when he arguably needs it the most, in return for all he has given to Penn State in the past. Whether one agrees with that logic or not, I'd think one could at least understand it.
 

JBill

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I understand what you're saying and why you feel it's galling but it's not that Paterno is a victim. Penn Staters are giving support to him at a time when he arguably needs it the most, in return for all he has given to Penn State in the past. Whether one agrees with that logic or not, I'd think one could at least understand it.
I could understand, in return for his service and good deeds, not rushing to judgment. Giving him the benefit of the doubt and waiting to hear what he has to say and for more facts to come out before condemning him. Rallying to support, no I don't understand that.
 

J.McG

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Story on April 1, 2011...

http://nittanywhiteo...ril-fools-joke/

And they allowed him unfettered access to campus as recently as last week.
Did anyone catch the comment posted at the end of this article? Chillingly ironic...

A voice to be heard

I myself have attended the Second mile camp. I had attended for three years. I had also become very good friends with sandusky who would take my sister as well as my two brothers to McDonald to eat and then to play grounds to play. In all my years of knowing him Jerry has not shown any signs to me as being a child molester. I Know first hand what those types are like. I was sexually assaulted as a child from the age of 11 to the age of 15 and if I felt very safe and secure arround Jerry doesn't that say something to you all. I was very upset as a child, I had hardly any friends, I felt very insecure about myself and even distanced myself from men including my own father who was trying to help me for fear all men were like the one who ruined my childhood. Jerry helped me to get passed that without ever knowing what was going on. To hear him accused of such a crime is socking to me and I cant believe it . Call me a hypocrite all you want But, I know deep down that Jerry is the last person I could imagine hurting a kid , he helps them. The lord protects those who are innocent and I fell that he truly is. I am twenty-three now and I can only thank Jerry for all he has done for me in the past and pray that he makes it through this trial in life. God Bless him.

sincerely, a girl from the supper, silly,sally, sassy,sissified,star-dreamers girl group.

3 months ago
To think that this sick bastard was molesting the very kids who looked to him as a savior from the same kind of abuse he was inflicting is depravity of the highest order. This guy should never have been given an opportunity to off himself while out on bail. He deserves a fate much worse, I'm talking a Father Geoghan-style prison curb stomping. Guys like Sandusky end up blowing their brains out hours before trial just to spite everyone. He needs to be on 24/7 suicide watch, don't give him an easy out.
 

mabrowndog

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Did anyone catch the comment posted at the end of this article? Chillingly ironic...
The girl who wrote that may not have been abused by Sandusky, but she might want to have a little heart-to-heart with her two brothers.
 

JimBoSox9

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It sucks that he didn't do more about Sandusky and I wish he had, but Paterno has also done so much over the years for the university, the students, the charities, etc., to more than offset his mistakes of this scandal in my mind, even as dispicable as this scandal is.
It's scary to me that you think that, because if you think that, there are thousands of less-intelligent Lions that think that the good outweighs the bad here, rather than 'just' offset.

Offset? You don't offset this. Not this, anything but this. Protecting those who are too young to protect themselves isn't a law, it's a sacred fucking moral contract. All the good JoePa has done, all the morality he stood for in a morally bankrupt business, it's not erased and it's still part of who he is (a point which leaks over from the debate in the Posnanski thread), but it doesn't even come close to making up for it.
 

ThePrideofShiner

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Joe Paterno is insane:

"It's hard for me to tell you how much this means to me. I've lived for this place, and I've lived for people like you guys and girls, and I'm just so happy to see that you could feel so strongly about us and about your school. The kids that were victims or whatever they want to say, I think we all ought to say a prayer for them. Tough life, when people do certain things to you. Anyway, you've been great. Everything's great, all right."

Joe Paterno speaking to a group of students gathered outside his home
From: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7JXoXdIJQ7I
 

JimBoSox9

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DLew has it so completely exactly right. A sick, depraved monster disgused as a benevolent Samaritan. A young man sees a mentor transform into that monster, and was either let down by the one man he believed could fix it, or traded his soul for a decade of employment. The 50-year legacy of an icon utterly destroyed by blind loyalty to a friend. Shadowly school administrators putting the Institution before people.

It's the story that has everything, and being able to almost understand why so many fundamentally decent people, on every level of the organization failed to do the right thing, makes it so incredibly sad and depressing and real and human.

Sophocles never fucking dreamed of something this fucked.
 
Sep 27, 2004
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"Tough life" and "or whatever hsppened?" That's this asshole's response?

Are you fucking kidding me? This is the guy you put before children who were raped. Him. A man who cares more about football than right and wrong, truth and lies.
 

Wings

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wow.

wow.

what an idiot. fuck him.
After seeing that video earlier I just had the impression that he is completely clueless to the whole thing. As in he doesn't seem to understand what the big deal is.

I can't imagine his comments, and the tonality and the context in which they were said, will earn him any goodwill. Perhaps it was the spur of the moment thing, but even then it still seems like he just doesn't "get it."
 

Gdiguy

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Joe Paterno is insane:



From: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7JXoXdIJQ7I
This obviously doesn't excuse (at all) what happened 12 or 9 years ago... but honestly, my impression from that video was less of a calculating football megalomaniac, and more of an old person who just isn't totally there anymore. I don't think he has any concept or understanding of what's going on, other than some vague sense of "a lot of people are mad at me and some kids got hurt"

I wonder if this is what's going on behind the scenes now - the school likely knows (much more than anyone publicly will acknowledge) how much he's slipped over the past few years, and I wonder if they're seriously concerned that if they fire him they won't be able to control him, and they have no idea what he'll go out and say to the press.

I mean, it's certainly also possible that he is just a crazy person and doesn't see what the big deal is, and that as long as football games were being won it excuses everything... but the impression I got from that was more reminiscent of talking to my grandmother in the early stages of Alzheimers than of a person who is trying to cover things up for a friend/program.
 

JBill

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Joe Paterno is insane:



From: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7JXoXdIJQ7I
So bizarre. Some of the reaction, a Paterno pep rally, promises of an investigation with a vague timeline, president MIA, it's like how a program reacts to some lame NCAA recruiting violations, not how a university should respond to allegations of overlooking/covering up a decade of child rape. Like the magnitude is incomprehensible and some are reacting by circling the wagons with no clue what they're actually defending.
 

Gdiguy

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Ok, I hadn't read the Rosenberg article at SI.. I take back my earlier comment, maybe he really is that uncaring about anything that isn't directly related to the football team

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/michael_rosenberg/11/07/pennst.scandal/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a3

Paterno has done far more good than harm in his career. But if you have been paying attention, you know that he has a bad habit of minimizing serious allegations.

When Penn State receiver Tony Johnson was arrested for driving under the influence a few years ago, Paterno said he would discipline him "just because I have to send a message to the squad that it is inappropriate to be out in the middle of the week having a couple of drinks."

Police said Johnson had a blood-alcohol level of .136, well above the legal limit.

Before a bowl game against Penn State in 2006, Florida State linebacker A.J. Nicholson was accused of sexual assault. Remember: This was not Paterno's player. He didn't have to say anything.

But he said this: "There are so many people gravitating to these kids. Maybe he didn't know what he was getting into, Nicholson. Somebody will knock on the door. A cute girl knocks on the door. What do you do?

"Thank God, they don't knock on my door. I'd refer them to a couple of other rooms.

"But that's too bad. You hate to see that, you really do. You'd like to see a kid end up his career. And he's a heck of a football player, he really is. It's just too bad. That's all I can say. It's just too bad."
 

Tartan

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I know they are just blindly supporting the guy without thinking too hard, but still, might not want to tweet everything you think:

PeteThamelNYT:
"This is a PSU quarterback. RT @MacQB11: Great to see so many supporters at coach paterno's house."
The one retweet not condemning him is disturbingly ironic:

abiddlepsu:[font="Georgia] [/font][/color]
[font="Arial"]If I didn't have a toddler and work tomorrow, I'd be there too. #PennStateForever
[/font]

And she's not being pithy. She's chock full of tweets blindly supporting JoePa. For that matter, that hashtag is chock full of disturbing tweets. Apparently this whole thing is an excuse to be hugely proud of Penn State. State College, PA is officially a town I never, ever want to set foot in.
 

gaelgirl

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My grandfather was a Pennsylvania native who represented his beloved Penn State as both a football player and a wrestler (long before Paterno arrived). Thankfully, he's not still around to see his school utterly destroyed by a pack of disgusting, lying pieces of shit.

I read part of the Grand Jury report. I couldn't get through all of it. I cannot fathom how anyone can have known any of what's detailed in that report and still let Sandusky walk around freely, hanging out with kids, grooming more victims.

I don't fault McQueary for his initial reaction. I am sure he was shocked, confused and upset. He called the person he trusted the most, his father, to ask his advice. It's not what we'd like to think we'd do in that situation, but it's not entirely unreasonable.

What I don't understand is what the fuck happened after those first few hours. How the fuck do you see that, know nothing's being done and let Sandusky get away with it? How do you face him, knowing what you know? How do you face your bosses, knowing they've done nothing? How do you see Sandusky with a kid and not get the urge to repeatedly slam Sudusky over the head with the nearest heavy object?

I have to think, and maybe I'm too generous, that McQueary doubted himself, didn't trust his own memories. Maybe he was convinced that what he thought he saw wasn't in fact what he saw. Maybe he wanted to believe it wasn't true so much that he convinced himself that his memory was wrong. Maybe nobody believed him and he thought pursuing it was futile. Maybe he's a sadistic fuck who didn't care. I don't understand how he has lived the last 10 years letting Sandusky off the hook. McQueary has to answer these questions.
 

twibnotes

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The one retweet not condemning him is disturbingly ironic:

[/size][/font]

And she's not being pithy. She's chock full of tweets blindly supporting JoePa. For that matter, that hashtag is chock full of disturbing tweets. Apparently this whole thing is an excuse to be hugely proud of Penn State. State College, PA is officially a town I never, ever want to set foot in.
Judging a region or town by one person's tweets is pretty small-minded.

Our own beloved Red Sox evidently has a similarly sick story in its past.

http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=7208029
 

Van Everyman

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Holy shit that's awful.

Btw, several pages back, a victim of sexual abuse posted a testimonial on their own experience -- thought it was pretty brave.
 

drtooth

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There is still part of me that feels that Spanier may be the biggest part of this cover-up so to protect the image of PSU (or more so his own). Spanier has come across as a total sleaze during this and it would not surprise me if he told Paterno to say nothing early on and threatened JoePa's job. Wonder if Paterno was going to say as much during his PC that was called off. Paterno should lose his job over this mess, but it is still my opinion that Spanier has skated in terms of the media coverage. If he survives this, something is very wrong here.
 

Average Reds

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Judging a region or town by one person's tweets is pretty small-minded.

Our own beloved Red Sox evidently has a similarly sick story in its past.

http://m.espn.go.com...storyId=7208029
Fuck ... why have I never heard about Don Fitzpatrick before?

It really is amazing to compare the evidence of how people actually respond to predators in their midst with the claims in this thread that their reactions would have been clear and unambiguous. I guess the reality is that you never know until you've been faced with it.
 

behindthepen

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The one retweet not condemning him is disturbingly ironic:

[/size][/font]

And she's not being pithy. She's chock full of tweets blindly supporting JoePa. For that matter, that hashtag is chock full of disturbing tweets. Apparently this whole thing is an excuse to be hugely proud of Penn State. State College, PA is officially a town I never, ever want to set foot in.
This is why this weekends game has a 90% chance of disaster for PSU. Most of the people in the stadium will clearly be supporting Paterno, and the Nebraska fans will mostly be polite about that. But to the outside world, it will be the "Support Covering Up Child Molestation Bowl".
 

Montana Fan

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Howard Bryant is right. Paterno should resign today in disgrace. Spanier oversaw the cover up. His statement on Saturday supporting the 2 university employees is telling. These people should be hounded for what they failed to do for the rest of their lives.

I heard a guy on Maddog yesterday speaking to how much power Paterno had. For example, if a Penn HS kid that Paterno wanted chose a different school the HS would find itself frozen out from camps etc until Paterno's ass was properly kissed.

These university officials were sweeping this under Paterno's rug in the same manner that they might take care of a player's DUI or a girlfriend's abortion. Except, the scale is incomparable.

Paterno must go today. The last 13 years are on him.
 

Average Reds

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Paterno must go today. The last 13 years are on him.
I'm in complete agreement with the first point. Waiting to learn more to declare complete agreement with the second point.

Here's what I mean. There is so much here that doesn't make sense that I'm assuming there has to be some significant information that will come out to explain some of the actions taken (and not taken) by the people involved here. And I don't think we're going to be able to know where to assign the majority of blame for the last 13 years until we know this.

Mind you, this isn't a defense of Paterno. My guess is that when everything comes out, he'll end up looking worse than he does now. But so much of what we know is inexplicable that I'd prefer to know more before deciding who to burn at the stake.
 

SumnerH

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Fuck ... why have I never heard about Don Fitzpatrick before?
He allegedly also had those kids buying weed for Eck and coke for Oil Can Boyd and Sammy Stewart. Wade Boggs was called to the stand but claimed no knowledge of it until the 1991 outing that led to Fitzpatrick's firing--his denial was pretty plausible given that he let Fitzpatrick look after his own kid alone until that incident:
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2002-05-21/news/0205210096_1_danna-sexual-abuse-clubhouse-manager

The Sox wound up settling with 7 victims for $3.15 million in 2002:
http://www.loblawyers.com/library/red-sox-settle-315-million-sex-abuse-lawsuit.cfm

Fitzpatrick's in the 1967 ALCS champions picture from the time:
http://www.fenwayoutlet.com/1967redsoxplaque.html
 
Nov 20, 2009
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Fuck ... why have I never heard about Don Fitzpatrick before?

It really is amazing to compare the evidence of how people actually respond to predators in their midst with the claims in this thread that their reactions would have been clear and unambiguous. I guess the reality is that you never know until you've been faced with it.
I'm surprised I've never heard of him either, but it's also not that surprising in that people in the Boston area wouldn't want to talk about it.

I'm in 100% agreement with the last part of what you said. I'm not trying to excuse anyone's behavior at all, especially the people involved who went on with their careers at the same place, around the same people, as if none of it happened, but I don't think anyone truly knows what they'd do if they had been McQueary in the locker room. I asked "what would you do if you saw your father raping a random 10 year old?" because I honestly have no idea -- I've never thought about it before, and don't have any reason to, because the idea of him doing something like that is just so beyond belief. It's just not something that is possible, so any idea of what I would do in response to it is in the realm of the impossible as well.

That's on top of the fact that we're seeing it all in hindsight, knowing everything else that happened. It's not even clear to me exactly what McQueary saw, because it's been reported as anything in a range from outright rape to "horsing around". The horsing around is not at all believable, but if it were something more like touching rather than actual sexual intercourse, there could be doubt in McQueary's mind as to what exactly he saw. Even if it were completely explicit, unequivocal sexual assault, what would you do? Knock the guy unconscious? It's not like you walk around with a pair of handcuffs ready to arrest someone who is sexually abusing minors. What if Sandusky realizes he's caught, his life is ruined, and decides that he needs to kill both you and the child, so he is willing to fight to the very last inch of his life? What if he carries a gun in his locker, or in his car, and after you rescue the kid, he is willing to chase you as far as he is physically able? What if you interrupt the scene and call the cops only for him to hold the kid hostage? What if he disappears with the kid, who is never seen again and you have no ideas as to his identity, and suddenly it is your word against a well respected former coach as to what happened? What if you start fighting him, the kid runs off, and you're alone with the battered and bloody naked body of a university administrator in a university locker room?

As much as you might think you know what you would do in the situation, you really don't. And as little as you know about what you would really do, you have even less information about what the other people will do, so any talk of action is pure speculation, and any examination of people's reactions to things like this throughout history will show you that many people who thought they would act in a certain way ended up doing something completely differently.

Again, this is not to excuse anyone's behavior, especially not since McQueary took a promotion and kept quiet about it, but I think it's silly to know precisely what you would do in a situation like that, because to know that means you are prepared and ready, at every minute of your life, to enter into mortal combat with a 60 year old man, which is a pretty crazy thing to prepare for. A D-Day vet once told me I should avoid getting into trivial fights, and not do things like allow myself to get angry at bad drivers, because you have no idea what the other guy is going to do, and it is absolutely true. A lot of college-aged kids will get into barfights as if there is some kind of barfight code where even the loser will emerge hurt but unharmed, but the reality is there are a lot of complete lunatics out there, and a small percentage of these kinds of incidents will escalate and escalate into someone getting seriously injured or dying. Since I did not grow up during the depression and spend my youth traveling the world killing Nazis, I wouldn't consider myself ever-ready to kill a man in his 60s with my bare hands, especially not if he were a former mentor, well-respected, and had a lot of clout with all of the institutions I held dear in my life. I guess some of you might be, but as for myself, I really have no idea what I would have done in that moment.

The more I think about his actions after the fact, and everyone else's who was involved, the more disgusted I am with the whole situation. It's like everyone involved has been convincing themselves and each other that it wasn't that bad, and would stop if they just ignored it, and didn't want to be the one to tarnish the university's reputation. The creepy cult qualities of State College are off the charts.
 

Delicious Sponge

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I'm in complete agreement with the first point. Waiting to learn more to declare complete agreement with the second point.

Here's what I mean. There is so much here that doesn't make sense that I'm assuming there has to be some significant information that will come out to explain some of the actions taken (and not taken) by the people involved here. And I don't think we're going to be able to know where to assign the majority of blame for the last 13 years until we know this.

Mind you, this isn't a defense of Paterno. My guess is that when everything comes out, he'll end up looking worse than he does now. But so much of what we know is inexplicable that I'd prefer to know more before deciding who to burn at the stake.
Situations like this are precisely the purpose for which stake-burnings were invented.

Yes, it's a Grand Jury report, so some of the particulars may not be precisely right, but the big picture here - that Joe Paterno and the leadership of PSU conspired to cover up, and in that sense, facilitate, repeated, horrid crimes - is the cold, hard reality.

That crowd of 1,000? In a sane world, that crowd would be at Joe's house to burn it down.
 

Soxfan in Fla

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Jul 30, 2001
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I understand what you're saying and why you feel it's galling but it's not that Paterno is a victim. Penn Staters are giving support to him at a time when he arguably needs it the most, in return for all he has given to Penn State in the past. Whether one agrees with that logic or not, I'd think one could at least understand it.

Fuck Paterno. Try giving that support to Sandusky's victims. THEY are the ones who need it the most. Have a rally to support THEM. Fucking delusional idiots.
 

soPhisHticated

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jun 10, 2005
585
I'm in complete agreement with the first point. Waiting to learn more to declare complete agreement with the second point.

Here's what I mean. There is so much here that doesn't make sense that I'm assuming there has to be some significant information that will come out to explain some of the actions taken (and not taken) by the people involved here. And I don't think we're going to be able to know where to assign the majority of blame for the last 13 years until we know this.

Mind you, this isn't a defense of Paterno. My guess is that when everything comes out, he'll end up looking worse than he does now. But so much of what we know is inexplicable that I'd prefer to know more before deciding who to burn at the stake.

I think this EXACTLY where I'm at. I can't condemn anyone (other than Sandusky at this point) until I know what part they played. It's likely that one or more of the folks involved here were told less than full detail, given a mischaracterized or downplayed version of events, or were operating under the assumption that they transferred responsibility to someone who would do the right thing, and said they would.

This is not a defense of Paterno or anyone else here, but in my mind there's a big difference between being complicit in a cover up and distancing yourself from something you really don't want to know. Neither is commendable, but one is far worse.
 

Seven Costanza

Fred Astaire of SoSH
SoSH Member
Apr 11, 2007
2,852
That's on top of the fact that we're seeing it all in hindsight, knowing everything else that happened. It's not even clear to me exactly what McQueary saw, because it's been reported as anything in a range from outright rape to "horsing around". The horsing around is not at all believable, but if it were something more like touching rather than actual sexual intercourse, there could be doubt in McQueary's mind as to what exactly he saw. Even if it were completely explicit, unequivocal sexual assault, what would you do? Knock the guy unconscious? It's not like you walk around with a pair of handcuffs ready to arrest someone who is sexually abusing minors. What if Sandusky realizes he's caught, his life is ruined, and decides that he needs to kill both you and the child, so he is willing to fight to the very last inch of his life? What if he carries a gun in his locker, or in his car, and after you rescue the kid, he is willing to chase you as far as he is physically able? What if you interrupt the scene and call the cops only for him to hold the kid hostage? What if he disappears with the kid, who is never seen again and you have no ideas as to his identity, and suddenly it is your word against a well respected former coach as to what happened? What if you start fighting him, the kid runs off, and you're alone with the battered and bloody naked body of a university administrator in a university locker room?

As much as you might think you know what you would do in the situation, you really don't. And as little as you know about what you would really do, you have even less information about what the other people will do, so any talk of action is pure speculation, and any examination of people's reactions to things like this throughout history will show you that many people who thought they would act in a certain way ended up doing something completely differently.

Again, this is not to excuse anyone's behavior, especially not since McQueary took a promotion and kept quiet about it, but I think it's silly to know precisely what you would do in a situation like that, because to know that means you are prepared and ready, at every minute of your life, to enter into mortal combat with a 60 year old man, which is a pretty crazy thing to prepare for. A D-Day vet once told me I should avoid getting into trivial fights, and not do things like allow myself to get angry at bad drivers, because you have no idea what the other guy is going to do, and it is absolutely true. A lot of college-aged kids will get into barfights as if there is some kind of barfight code where even the loser will emerge hurt but unharmed, but the reality is there are a lot of complete lunatics out there, and a small percentage of these kinds of incidents will escalate and escalate into someone getting seriously injured or dying. Since I did not grow up during the depression and spend my youth traveling the world killing Nazis, I wouldn't consider myself ever-ready to kill a man in his 60s with my bare hands, especially not if he were a former mentor, well-respected, and had a lot of clout with all of the institutions I held dear in my life. I guess some of you might be, but as for myself, I really have no idea what I would have done in that moment.
I cannot disagree with this more.

While I'm no former Div 1 QB, I'm 6 feet tall and 190. I know what I would do. I'd be fully prepared to physically intervene if necessary if I saw anyone in a shower raping a 10 year old. I'd intervene, even if that meant I'd get my own ass kicked or worse. I would not be able to live with myself otherwise. Of this I have no question.

If this was some back alley and the guy had a gun to someone's head while they were raping them, sure, I might think about it for a second. But in the scenario presented- a naked man in a shower raping a naked child- I wouldn't stop to think about possible later ramifications. I'd save and protect that kid- which is what the kid deserves. I wouldn't beat the offender to death or anything like that (I'd leave that for Bubba in prison to do) but I'd do everything in my physical power to stop the rape in question.

I don't understand your point about trivial fights- if I had to fight someone to save a child from getting raped, that's about as far from trivial as it gets.