Pete Rose has passed

DontTauntOrtizMe

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
1,396
Right now, Eduardo Perez said he was breaking some news that he confirmed with his brother. He announced Pete Rose passed away today. ESPN said they would work to confirm.
 

Sad Sam Jones

Member
SoSH Member
May 5, 2017
3,076
Let's establish one thing upfront. There is no such thing as a "lifetime ban" in MLB, Rose is on the permanently ineligible list.
 

AlNipper49

Huge Member
Dope
SoSH Member
Apr 3, 2001
46,073
Mtigawi
If you want to teach your kids how to play baseball on the field you show them Pete Rose. If you want to show them what not to do in baseball off the field you show them Pete Rose.
 

mauidano

Mai Tais for everyone!
SoSH Member
Aug 21, 2006
37,420
Maui
Just tried to go onto the Pete Rose website to buy a ball. They pulled the payment method pretty damn quickly so you can’t buy a bunch of stuff. Those prices will shoot upwards. Albeit, if you’re a collector Pete has signed for you already.

That guy would autograph his soul.
 

Seels

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
5,414
NH
When I was a child I met Pete Rose, twice. I didn't know much about him,. This would have been after he was banned, but not long after, maybe 1992 or so.

The first time it was just be at an area he was at while outside Boston. I was like 10, and when I asked him for an autograph, he asked me for $40.

The second time a few years later I met him at an autograph signing, along with like Steve Carlton and Nolan Ryan and a few others. I don't remember exactly what he said, but I knew he was an asshole and I was a child, and it was clear he only was concerned about whatever nominal amount of money he was getting out of the exchange.

Add to that his stuff with gambling, and whatever he did with the statutory rape, and whatever, this guy sucks. One of the bigger dirtbags in baseball history.
 

ifmanis5

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2007
66,802
Rotten Apple
Came here to see how many posts we got until someone dropped the 'quintessential recidivist' bomb. So, that will be me at post #22.
 

RG33

Certain Class of Poster
SoSH Member
Nov 28, 2005
7,774
CA
Let's establish one thing upfront. There is no such thing as a "lifetime ban" in MLB, Rose is on the permanently ineligible list.
Is this true?

MLB Rule 21 (D) (2) explicitly states:

“Prohibits league or team employees from betting on a baseball game they are involved in, resulting in a lifetime ineligibility”

Of course, this is an MLB rule, which is different from the independently run Baseall Hall of Fame. The BBWAA’s Rule 3(E) that the HofF uses states:

“Rule 3(E) of the BBWAA's election rules. This rule was ratified in 1991 and states that anyone who is permanently ineligible by MLB cannot be considered for election to the Hall of Fame.”

I know it is kind of semantics, but MLB specifically uses the term “lifetime ineligibility”.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2004
25,918
The 718
If you want to teach your kids how to play baseball on the field you show them Pete Rose. If you want to show them what not to do in baseball off the field you show them Pete Rose.
This is the pithiest and most apt thing
 

sox75

New Member
Jun 4, 2018
126
I am watching the HBO documentary where Rose says a few times, "Don't wait until I'm dead. That would be just cruel." I pause watching it and see the headline. Holy shit!

I was a HUGE Rose fan as a kid. He was the spirit of the Big Red Machine, possibly the best team ever put on the field. 1978? He had us all checking the box scores for a month to see if he got another hit. Chasing Cobb's record? What a thrill!!

I was crushed by the outing of his gambling on the game. And then the lies, lies, lies. And the more he put himself out there to get reinstated...he was so clearly a small minded, egotistical blowhard. Hard way to learn that the sports heroes of your youth are not Gods.

Sad story. His own ego prevented him from coming clean, showing true remorse, and seeking the reinstatement he so desperately wanted.
 

patinorange

don rickles jr
SoSH Member
Aug 27, 2006
33,531
6 miles from Angel Stadium
He lived in my business partner's condo building in LV. He had a (I think) Rolls Royce with the license plate HIT KING.

Hell of a baseball player.
He was a fixture at the memorabilia shop in the Caesar's Palace Forum mall. I remember seeing him there often. Sitting at a table selling autographs, usually sitting there alone. It was a little depressing. But I guess he had to pay the bills.
 

Scott Cooper's Grand Slam

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2008
4,747
New England
I participated in debate club from junior high until college. One of my favorite pastimes was to take pro or con in the "Pete Rose deserves to be a Hall of Famer" debate. A few decades removed, I don't feel that strongly about either side of the debate. I believe that the stories we tell ourselves and each other are more important than the monuments we build. Maybe 200, 300 years from now people will forget Pedro Martinez. Maybe they will forget Tom Brady. In either case, maybe their respective enshrinements will help preserve Americana and inspire new generations of researchers (and players!).

I don't think people will forget Pete Rose. He's not bigger than baseball, but he's bigger than Cooperstown.
 

CoffeeNerdness

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 6, 2012
10,042
Just tried to go onto the Pete Rose website to buy a ball. They pulled the payment method pretty damn quickly so you can’t buy a bunch of stuff. Those prices will shoot upwards. Albeit, if you’re a collector Pete has signed for you already.

That guy would autograph his soul.
I once saw Pete in a Vegas memorabilia shop picking the goddamn hell out of his nose waiting for anyone to roll up to his autograph table.
 

SumnerH

Malt Liquor Picker
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
33,638
Asheville, NC
Sad story. His own ego prevented him from coming clean, showing true remorse, and seeking the reinstatement he so desperately wanted.
And harmed Tony Perez's career and the development of the 1985 Reds. His selfish ego made him underperform on the field as well as off.
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
28,622
Saskatoon Canada
I went to the store in Vegas where he was permanently signing stuff. It was 11am on a Wednesday, nobody was there. I asked the guy at the desk how much for for my son and I to just talk to him for 2 minutes. We didn't want to buy anything. The cheapest item was something like 250 bucks. I said I would give 50 just for him to talk to my kid. I guess he had a little pride left, and they turned me down.
Terminally self destructive. It seems he was on the verge of some form of rehabilitation countless times, often after years of works by friends or representatives, and in each case instantly destroyed all the good will with a stupid decision.

MAybe best part of the Charlie Hustle Doc was

Pete Rose: I'm not gonna lie...
George Foster: (interrupting) this time.
 
Last edited:

staz

Intangible
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2004
21,917
The cradle of the game.
He was a fixture at the memorabilia shop in the Caesar's Palace Forum mall. I remember seeing him there often. Sitting at a table selling autographs, usually sitting there alone. It was a little depressing. But I guess he had to pay the bills.
A lot depressing. He just looked so miserable, staring off. Most prolific hitter who ever lived, just sitting there, metaphoric guitar case wide open but nothing inside.

First OJ, now Rose. If 2024 has a third act, let it be Ray Lewis.
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 22, 2008
37,874
Random thought: was Pete Rose ever the best player on his team?

I’m not sure he was — he played with Frank Robinson, then Johnny Bench, and eventually Joe Morgan, then in Philly he was with Mike Schmidt, and after that he was old.

Didn’t realize until just now that Rose led the league in plate appearances 7 times. His durability was a big reason he got the hit record — he was a career .303 hitter who drew his share of walks, which wouldn’t be the profile you’d expect for a 4000+ hit guy, but he played a shitload of games — 3562, to be exact. That’s most all-time; only four guys are within 500 games of Rose (Yaz, Aaron, Henderson, Pujols).

Rose compiled 559 hits over his final 5 seasons (1982-86) and cumulatively had a negative WAR during that span, which imo makes the hit record less impressive. I’m not sure any player hung on too long as clearly as Rose did. Yaz and Aaron hung on too long too, but neither had a season with negative fWAR. Even Derek Jeter mustered 0.2 fWAR in his final season, and he hung on so long that people I know who aren’t even sports fans make jokes about it.

If Rose never gambled on the sport and retired after the 1982 season, when he was 41 years old and totally cooked, he’d still hold the NL record for hits, and he would’ve been a first ballot Hall of Famer, but he’d be largely forgotten today — like Rod Carew, a great player whom I doubt my 19-year old can tell you much about.
 
Last edited:

trekfan55

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 29, 2004
11,953
Panama
Random thought: was Pete Rose ever the best player on his team?

I’m not sure he was — he played with Frank Robinson, then Johnny Bench, and eventually Joe Morgan, then in Philly he was with Mike Schmidt, and after that he was old.

Didn’t realize until just now that Rose led the league in plate appearances 7 times. His durability was a big reason he got the hit record — he was a career .303 hitter who drew his share of walks, which wouldn’t be the profile you’d expect for a 4000+ hit guy, but he played a shitload of games — 3562, to be exact. That’s most all-time; only four guys are within 500 games of Rose (Yaz, Aaron, Henderson, Pujols).

Rose compiled 559 hits over his final 5 seasons (1982-86) and cumulatively had a negative WAR during that span, which imo makes the hit record less impressive. I’m not sure any player hung on too long as clearly as Rose did. Yaz and Aaron hung on too long too, but neither had a season with negative fWAR. Even Derek Jeter mustered 0.2 fWAR in his final season, and he hung on so long that people I know who aren’t even sports fans make jokes about it.

If Rose never gambled on the sport and retired after the 1982 season, when he was 41 years old and totally cooked, he’d still hold the NL record for hits, and he would’ve been a first ballot Hall of Famer, but he’d be largely forgotten today — like Rod Carew, a great player whom I doubt my 19-year old can tell you much about.
I mostly agree. Except he played in the 1983 World Series with the Phillies too so at least one kore year.

Also, I doubt he would be forgotten had he retired after 1982-83. He may not have been the best player on his team but he made a mark. And the 3 WS rings help.

BTW, had he retired, he probably would be managing somewhere (maybe the Phillies) and the chances are good that he would get in the same trouble he did after all.
 

terrynever

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
22,393
Yardley, PA
ESPN calls Rose the most exciting player of his era, which is ridiculous. He wasn’t even in the top 10 when it comes to exciting. The guy had a great competitive zeal that overcame his rather ordinary physical skills.
 

Bergs

don't Judge me
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2005
22,595
Random thought: was Pete Rose ever the best player on his team?

I’m not sure he was — he played with Frank Robinson, then Johnny Bench, and eventually Joe Morgan, then in Philly he was with Mike Schmidt, and after that he was old.
He was in 1966, arguably in 1967, and almost certainly in 1968 & 1969. Then a parade of HoF teamates joined him and he was only top 3-4 on his own team. Fuck Pete Rose into the sun with a razor-bladed rocket up his ass, but let's not pretend he wasn't a great fucking hitter during his peak.

Didn’t realize until just now that Rose led the league in plate appearances 7 times. His durability was a big reason he got the hit record — he was a career .303 hitter who drew his share of walks, which wouldn’t be the profile you’d expect for a 4000+ hit guy, but he played a shitload of games — 3562, to be exact. That’s most all-time; only four guys are within 500 games of Rose (Yaz, Aaron, Henderson, Pujols).

Rose compiled 559 hits over his final 5 seasons (1982-86) and cumulatively had a negative WAR during that span, which imo makes the hit record less impressive. I’m not sure any player hung on too long as clearly as Rose did. Yaz and Aaron hung on too long too, but neither had a season with negative fWAR. Even Derek Jeter mustered 0.2 fWAR in his final season, and he hung on so long that people I know who aren’t even sports fans make jokes about it.
You don't get all-time career counting stat records without "hanging on too long," unless you're Barry Bonds.

Also, Carl Michael Yastrzemski was killing it at the plate in long stretches in his later years (including early 1983). Bodies break down. Personally, I miss the story arcs of the old players grinding it out until the bitter end.

If Rose never gambled on the sport and retired after the 1982 season, when he was 41 years old and totally cooked, he’d still hold the NL record for hits, and he would’ve been a first ballot Hall of Famer, but he’d be largely forgotten today — like Rod Carew, a great player whom I doubt my 19-year old can tell you much about.
This just makes me sad.

Edit: @reggiecleveland is using WAR, I was using OPS+. Sue me.
 
Last edited: