Peter Abe: Offseason 23 Bloom or Cora Could Be Gone?

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Saw this in today's Globe Baseball Notes from Peter Abraham:

Red Sox: Alex Cora could be in hot water. Here’s how.

John Henry and Tom Werner have been impulsive with their baseball operations chiefs over the last decade. Ben Cherington lasted a little less than four years. Dombrowski got a little more than four years. Each put together a World Series champion.

Chaim Bloom is coming up on three years in October and has not won the World Series. Public perception has turned sharply against him in recent weeks after a convoluted and unsuccessful approach to the trade deadline.

If the owners decide to ax him after the season, Bloom could argue that unlike Cherington and Dombrowski, he never had a chance to hire his own manager.

The owners made it clear in 2020 they wanted Cora back after his suspension and Bloom went along. Bloom could ask for another chance with his own manager and maybe the owners would go along with that. It’s unlikely. But given the volatility at Fenway, anything is possible.

One way or another, it feels like a decision between Bloom or Cora is coming.
Whatever way you feel about Peter Abraham, he's not a hot-take shit stirrer and he usually goes to print with items that are sourced. Which leads me to believe that he got this chestnut from one of three sources: the manager (or someone close to Cora), Bloom (or someone in the FO) or at the Ownership level. He's around the club day-in and day-out, I highly doubt that he made this up out of thin air.

This is one of those little seeds that can grow into something pretty big over the next six-to-eight weeks if the Sox continue to play poorly.

If Bloom cans Cora, he's absolutely done in this town. Aside from Tito, I don't think any manager is as beloved by the fans, the media and the players as Alex Cora is. And with good reason, Cora is a terrific manager who has done more great things here than bad. Bloom doesn't inspire that type of confidence.

(BTW, I saw that this was brought up in the Cora thread, but it's back-to-school time in the Bay State and new threads are cool.)
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Obviously, of the 5 most recent Red Sox managers, Tito is number one with a bullet and Bobby V is probably tied with Roenicke for last place (maybe RR gets a courtesy boost up to fourth, by default), but I'm not so sure I'd put AC as the de facto number two. I know A LOT of people were really upset about his return after his year-long suspension. That portion of the fan base saw, and maybe still sees, him as a cheater. The fact that his one title as Sox skipper also came with mild cheating allegations did not help, either, especially when MLB effectively both sides'd the whole thing by fining the Sox and the Yankees for improper use of video equipment.

It may be nitpicking, but I would dare guess that some hold Manager John in higher esteem these days and may not shed a tear when Cora exits, stage right.
 

RedOctober3829

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If there's a disconnect between Cora and Bloom and you were John Henry who would you pick to survive? It sure as hell would not be Chaim Bloom if I were Henry. Cora is on record this year saying that he's not looking to be a manager for 25 years like Bobby Cox. Ian Browne said it would not be surprising to see Cora take the Brad Stevens route and move up into the front office. I could see a scenario that Henry cans Bloom and hires Alex Cora to be the GM.

If Bloom stays around, I could also see Cora looking around and realizing how many other options he has in baseball and just leaves. He could catch on with somebody's front office or take a job with ESPN.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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If there's a rift between Cora and Bloom, that's one thing, but I don't see ownership dumping Bloom after three years, particularly after his marching orders for Year One were to dismantle what little was left from the Dombrowski era in order to start anew.
 

Daniel_Son

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I still fail to see how 1. The entire heart of your lineup (X, JD, Story, and Devers) completely falling off a cliff, and 2. almost your entire starting rotation being injured in the second half is either Bloom or Cora's fault.

I guess you can make an argument for the second point that Bloom should've gone with less injury-prone starters, but who could've honestly predicted Sale breaking his hand in his second start of the season?? Getting shut down with fatigue, arm soreness, sure... but that's the definition of a freak injury, and counting that as a mark against Bloom isn't being honest.

It's a lot more convenient to blame one or two guys at the top... but at a certain point, the players are accountable for the position they've put the team in this year. Does a new manager change the fact that Rafael Devers is hitting .198 in August? Does firing Chaim mean that Eovaldi doesn't hurt his shoulder again? Does hiring the next Terry Francona mean that Jarren Duran suddenly becomes 2011 Jacoby Ellsbury?

No. The fact is that our regulars (save a few) have been playing like absolute dogshit for a good portion of the season, and we've been pretty unlucky with injuries in the second half.
 

Yelling At Clouds

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If there's a rift between Cora and Bloom, that's one thing, but I don't see ownership dumping Bloom after three years, particularly after his marching orders for Year One were to dismantle what little was left from the Dombrowski era in order to start anew.
Yeah, I think this was my reaction, too - not that I’m a huge Bloom guy or anything, but I was surprised to read the suggestion that ownership is this impatient with Bloom (to be clear, I’m not denying Pete Abe’s reporting, here). I’d think they’d have known when they hired him that his plan was going to take a few years to fully take shape. Unless there isn’t actually “a plan” as such, but I don’t think that’s true.
 

chawson

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Two of the three offseasons in Bloom’s tenure have been marked by massive and unpredictable interruptions. It would be ridiculous to move on from him now.

This is one of the most thoroughly exhausting parts about being a Red Sox fan. I get it. I have silly old guys in my family who gripe about how Bloom is ruining the team too. Who cares? They don’t know what they're talking about.

If Devers and Bogaerts both leave acrimoniously, then I’ll change my tune. But for now, I’d like to know what alternate track people think Bloom should have taken instead of the one he has. And I say that as someone who advocated for him to sign Ozuna (which would have been terrible) and Schwarber (which would have been fine, if not changed much about this year). I want them to spend money and pursue great players, and I hope that they will going forward. But it’s not Bloom or Cora’s fault that the rash of injuries spoiled this season.

The Red Sox need a few years of stability, not more chaos. Cora is good and well liked. Bloom has hit more than he’s missed and has a plan, even if I have disagreed with small elements of it. Everyone just needs to put the pitchforks down.
 

Ganthem

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Despite 2018 I don't think Cora is irreplaceable. His bullpen managment is shoddy and if I recall correctly he advocated more agressive at bats a few seasons ago which has led to an inconsistent offense. Lastly he decided to keep the starters workload down at the beginning of the season as the bullpen was giving up runs. He wanted to do that to keep them fresh for September. That hasn't really worked out.
 

Jimbodandy

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Man, this feels like such a Bruins thread. If only we had a goalie or a 38yo defenseman to blame.

Rebuilding the farm takes time, and Henry is a pragmatic businessman. I think that it's about one year too early to expect him to make a change.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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This is ridiculous. If Henry is that much of an asshole to think Bloom can make turn his turds into a ribeye then he's as much of a shitstick as I've started thinking he is since his axing of Tito.
Bloom actually really almost made that turd into a ribeye in '21 but it didn't work out in '22 and I suspect it's more because of a ambiguous strategy that Henry has imparted than on anything else. He doesn't want to tank the team but doesn't want to just throw more money at his (and/or Dombrowski's) errors so he brought in Bloom to take the long view but that long view isn't happening as fast as he needs and the danger is that Sox fans are being peeled away.... so he wants to stay competitive.... but doesn't want to throw more money at his (and/or Dombrowski's) errors so he.... anyhow. He's in a cyclical problem and needs to just STFU and commit to a rebuild OR go out and paper over his Sale, Mookie and farm system collapse with his own cash.
 

chawson

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Despite 2018 I don't think Cora is irreplaceable. His bullpen managment is shoddy and if I recall correctly he advocated more agressive at bats a few seasons ago which has led to an inconsistent offense. Lastly he decided to keep the starters workload down at the beginning of the season as the bullpen was giving up runs. He wanted to do that to keep them fresh for September. That hasn't really worked out.
How are you controlling for selection bias when examining Cora’s bullpen management? I know there’s been a lot of ink about “blown saves” and of course it feels bad when the bullpen gives up a lead, but I don’t see a lot of evidence that this is true.

Most of Cora’s have overperformed expectations (Schreiber, Strahm, Whitlock, Sawamura, Danish, Brasier until last week), not underperformed. Barnes was broken, Robles declined, Diekman was occasionally useful but always had command issues and was a bad signing overall.

After a lockout it makes sense that relievers might be even more volatile than usual. Of course the Sox are going to have more blown saves than the Astros or Yankees. Our relievers have thrown about 20 percent more innings than theirs have.
 

4 6 3 DP

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The language is confusing - so John Henry is supposed to decide to can his GM, and his GM instead says don't fire me, fire the manager, and they change course, fire the manager, and let a lame duck GM hire a manager who will likely want to be replaced by the next guy coming in? Who takes that job?

Seems pretty likely to me that Bloom went into the year expecting they'd be right in the playoff hunt and would upgrade offense at RF and 1B if necessary near the deadline, and instead the combination of underperformance and injury left him in no man's land. My guess is he is a young GM, probably wishes he had a do-over of a few things, and will use his immense talents to take this experience and learn from it in a positive way, and John Henry probably feels very similarly. And if 2023 doesn't show the type of improvement we all hope and expect, then these articles won't be just passive innuendo in a year.
 

Van Everyman

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I like Pete Abraham -- I mean, he is worlds better than Nick Cafardo was and he isn’t a shit stirrer. That said, he’s been unusually grumpy and has had an oddly emotional edge at times this season (see: his borderline angry coverage of the Vazquez batting practice nothingburger). He’s always been a bit thin-skinned on Twitter, which seems to get worse when fans are up in arms about something or another.

All of which is to say: I didn’t read this as Pete having sources so much as there being a general feeling of frustration around the team that he's internalized.

The problem with this “Mountain vs. the Red Viper” scenario is that both Bloom and Cora share some of the blame for this season’s underperformance. The Bloom stuff has been debated ad nauseam here so I won’t repeat it beyond saying that I think the roster was constructed with very little margin for error (which is to say, somewhat on the cheap) and when injuries and underperformance reared their heads right off the bat, they found themselves in a very big hole they could never really climb out from.

At the same time tho, there have been a ton of moments this season where the team just didn’t look ready: games where they were just going through the motions and long stretches of poor at-bats. In addition, this has been the second season in a row where the players have often not been playing smart (think about Renfroe’s dumb throws home in the playoffs last year letting guys get extra bases or the baserunning blunders). I’m a fan of Cora but some of that is on the manager.

And, some of it is probably on ownership as well. You can’t tell me that the Xander/Devers contract situations haven’t impacted their performance and the team’s.

All that said, I don’t really harbor any anger or resentment toward any one of the parties here – I agree with those who think last year was probably a major over performance in what was supposed to be Year 2 of a stay-somewhat-competive-but-don’t-break-the-bank-rebuild. They tried to run it back out there again this year and it just didn't work without the same injury and performance luck.

Ideally what I would like to see is all these parties bear down and work together toward better balancing organizational and performance depth for 2023. By which I mean: simplify things a bit -- worry less about squeezing every last dollar for value and use your deep pockets to 1) sign FA, 2) overpay your best guys (Raffy/Xander) and 3) pay guys that fit well in Boston even if there isn’t a clear roster “fit” (ie, Schwarber last year and maybe Kiké again this offseason on a prove-it one-year deal). It won't always work but you're always going to have some bust deals -- you just need to trust Cora to manage a gangly roster of talented players well. If you keep drafting well and developing in the minors and signing guys like Wacha, Arroyo, and Schreiber off the scrap heap to plug holes, I think you will have a contender.
 

EvilEmpire

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If ownership wants to fire Bloom, they should wait until Xander and Devers are gone because of Bloom doing what ownership wants him to do.

They'll be able to avoid those contracts, sacrifice Bloom to an angry fanbase, and start fresh with someone new.
 

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And, some of it is probably on ownership as well. You can’t tell me that the Xander/Devers contract situations haven’t impacted their performance and the team’s.
I doubt this actually.

Xander has a contract through 2025/26 and is set for life (having already earned $85 mil). He controls whether he opts out or not, and he controls if he's going to accept whatever offer he gets to resign here.

Devers is 25 and has already grossed $17 mil. He's gotten extension offers he's turned down apparently. So I'm not sure if there should be any existential hand-wringing on his part either.

And I very much doubt that Houck (or whomever) lies awake at night worrying about Devers' contract negotiations or plays poorly because of it.

I think all of this of this is just fan-anxiety projected onto the players.

But you know what? If it's hypothetically not fan-anxiety, and they were underperforming, then fuck those guys. They're getting a shit-ton of money right now to play this year. If they're so psychologically fragile and anxious, I'm sure they can extend for near-life on team-favorable terms instead of rejecting the team's proposals. If they're not, and want to max out dollars, they have to accept the actual consequences of what they want. Which is to potentially be a free agent and max out their earnings on the market.
 

sodenj5

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Bloom inherited nearly impossible parameters and knocked on the door of a World Series while completely overhauling the farm system and trading away an MVP.

I admit that I thought he may have bungled the trade deadline this year and should have gone hard sell, but if JD and Xander turn into comp picks, so be it.

He’s executed everything that ownership has dictated, so it would be a bit foolish if he were the scapegoat this season.
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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If there's a disconnect between Cora and Bloom and you were John Henry who would you pick to survive?
Why is it either/or? Maybe Henry should fire both Cora and Bloom ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

He could pull a Machiavellian Borgia/Lorca--have Bloom sack Xander and ax Cora, and then Henry can ax Bloom.

It's not feasible or advisable to get rid of both, but I think a not insignificant portion of the fan base wouldn't mind seeing both gone.
 

The Gray Eagle

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Yeah, I think this was my reaction, too - not that I’m a huge Bloom guy or anything, but I was surprised to read the suggestion that ownership is this impatient with Bloom (to be clear, I’m not denying Pete Abe’s reporting, here).
What reporting is there? In the quoted part, there is no reporting.
Abraham cooks up some hypotheticals, then says:

It’s unlikely. But given the volatility at Fenway, anything is possible.
It's unlikely. But anything is possible! Well no one can argue with that.
And then he wraps it up with this:
"One way or another, it feels like a decision between Bloom or Cora is coming."
So a sportswriter has a feeling and makes up scenarios where is might play out. Everyone click on it!

Anyway, this has got to be the most amazingly entitled sentence anyone has ever had published about the Boston Red Sox:
Chaim Bloom is coming up on three years in October and has not won the World Series.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Despite 2018 I don't think Cora is irreplaceable. His bullpen managment is shoddy and if I recall correctly he advocated more agressive at bats a few seasons ago which has led to an inconsistent offense. Lastly he decided to keep the starters workload down at the beginning of the season as the bullpen was giving up runs. He wanted to do that to keep them fresh for September. That hasn't really worked out.
To be fair, his advocacy of more aggressive ABs came at the divine confluence of the launch angle revolution fully taking hold (something he brought with him from Houston) and having a lot of guys on the team who could absolutely mash. They basically bludgeoned their way to a title (not to discount the pitching, but the team was an offensive juggernaut that posted a lot of double-digit totals in runs scored on a game-to-game basis. They were a wrecking machine.

Since then, however, it seems that MLB has decided to try to reduce the ridiculous number of homers hit with the whole dead ball thing, and the team turnover has brought in some guys who don't mash as much (whether as a byproduct of the ball thing or otherwise), which is a poor combination with a beleaguered, diminished, and, in some spots, downgraded pitching staff.

But lately he's been suggesting the team be a bit more selective, so I think he's changed his mind. The team maybe just hasn't caught up yet. Maybe that's on the offensive staff (hitting coach and assistant hitting coaches) or the players or both. But the aggression worked in 2018 and 2021, although the latter did not yield the same result as the former, so it's tough to blame him for sticking with what worked for awhile.

The organization apparently has a Mental Skills Coach (Rey Fuentes). I would suggest that maybe he is not doing the best job he could with this team.
 

kazuneko

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If Chaim Bloom got fired I can't imagine that even his most fierce defenders would have much to complain about.
The minor league system has definitely been vastly improved since he began his tenure, but it's not clear how much he deserves credit for that. After all, Mayer fell into his lap, and Casas and Houck were drafted by Dombrowski.
And Bloom has really, really failed to impress with his trades. I know it's been discussed ad nauseam, but I don't think there is anyone who argues that the return he got for Betts was anything better than okay. Meanwhile, there are many on this board and elsewhere who are far less charitable. The Beni trade looked a bit better when Winckowski had a few good starts in a row, but now he's sitting at a 5.83 ERA and Beni's good year and our struggles in the OF make it pretty easy to regret this move. The trade that really looks bad is the Renfroe deal. Renfroe has been great, JBJ was horrible and the Sox actually took on money for the swap. Worst of all, the prospects he targeted look like misses. And, unlike with Betts, this trade was totally unnecessary, making Bloom particularly responsible for the paltry return.
Unless I missed something, Bloom's only winning trade was the Pivetta deal, and as much as he was a nice pick up, that's hardly enough to make up for Bloom's many mistakes. And I get that Bloom has taken on rebuilding the organization towards the type of analytically driven approach that most on this board support, but can't that be continued and expanded under someone else?
So yeah, I get that Cora is a cheater and all, but at least he is actually a good manager. Despite Bloom's past success with the Rays, he has just not been a good general manager for the Sox. If they really feel like they need to fire someone, Bloom is the one that deserves to be shown the door..
 
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Rovin Romine

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To be fair, his advocacy of more aggressive ABs came at the divine confluence of the launch angle revolution fully taking hold (something he brought with him from Houston) and having a lot of guys on the team who could absolutely mash. They basically bludgeoned their way to a title (not to discount the pitching, but the team was an offensive juggernaut that posted a lot of double-digit totals in runs scored on a game-to-game basis. They were a wrecking machine.

Since then, however, it seems that MLB has decided to try to reduce the ridiculous number of homers hit with the whole dead ball thing, and the team turnover has brought in some guys who don't mash as much (whether as a byproduct of the ball thing or otherwise), which is a poor combination with a beleaguered, diminished, and, in some spots, downgraded pitching staff.

But lately he's been suggesting the team be a bit more selective, so I think he's changed his mind. The team maybe just hasn't caught up yet. Maybe that's on the offensive staff (hitting coach and assistant hitting coaches) or the players or both. But the aggression worked in 2018 and 2021, although the latter did not yield the same result as the former, so it's tough to blame him for sticking with what worked for awhile.

The organization apparently has a Mental Skills Coach (Rey Fuentes). I would suggest that maybe he is not doing the best job he could with this team.
So there's a curious trend from 2018 to 2022. The only players on the 2018 team to get hold their own or get better in subsequent years are Vazquez and Devers (and Moreland). Xander had a very slight one year uptick in 2019, then trended downward.

If you discount 2020 as an odd blip one way or the other, it seems like everyone from 2018 or anyone new just trends downward until they're out of the Sox org.

Their fresh plan from 2018 seems to have been noticed by other pitching coaches.
 

kazuneko

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He’s executed everything that ownership has dictated, so it would be a bit foolish if he were the scapegoat this season.
Pretty sure it wasn't ownership that forced him to take on extra money to swap Renfroe for JBJ. While you can't blame 2022 on the Renfroe trade, it not only added costs but took away wins from this team, and it was an unforced error as very, very few GMs would have even considered making that move. It also highlights Bloom's tendency to be a bit too cute. He's taken on trade risks that haven't been necessary, and - at least in his Sox tenure- they haven't panned out.
 
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RG33

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Chaim Bloom is not being fired. This ownership group finally got the type of analytically driven, system-building, development-focused guy they’ve been looking for to build a long-term, sustainable, perennially contending team. They aren’t bailling on him because he *only* got to the ALCS once in his first 3 years, especially when presented with the shit sandwich of being in effect forced to trade Mookie Betts and continue to have Chris Sale sucking $30m a year off the payroll.

With regards to Cora, unless there is some unknown factor between he and Bloom, I also don’t think there is any chance that the ownership group that basically put Roenicke in to babysit for a year while he was suspended, and then brought him back despite a high-profile cheating scandal is now going to sour on him after having won a championship and nudged an over-achieving team within 2 games of another WS because they had an injury-ravaged season in year 3 of the build.

In other words, I think this story is clickbait nonsense.
 

Daniel_Son

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And Bloom has really, really failed to impress with his trades. I know it's been discussed ad nauseam, but I don't think there is anyone who argues that the return he got for Betts was anything better than okay.
I disagree with this. This has been litigated 1000 times on the board, but the trade was one year of Betts and ~50 million dollars of David Price in exchange for a Verdugo, a 23 year old outfielder coming off a 3-WAR season, the number 44 prospect in baseball in Downs, and a catcher who had just hit .349/.393/.604 in the minors. I mean maybe with just Betts, yeah, the return could've been better. But with Price added to mix, I don't really think the return could've been better than it was.
 

Yelling At Clouds

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What reporting is there? In the quoted part, there is no reporting.
Abraham cooks up some hypotheticals, then says:


It's unlikely. But anything is possible! Well no one can argue with that.
And then he wraps it up with this:


So a sportswriter has a feeling and makes up scenarios where is might play out. Everyone click on it!
I mean, I guess, but mostly what I was trying to say is that I believe he knows something here and didn’t pull this out of the sky. I know it’s fashionable to bash the press, but I agree with JMOH that Pete Abe wouldn’t put that in his column just for “clicks.” (For starters, it wasn’t even the main focus of the piece!)
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Chaim Bloom is not being fired. This ownership group finally got the type of analytically driven, system-building, development-focused guy they’ve been looking for to build a long-term, sustainable, perennially contending team.
You mean what they had in Theo?
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Whatever way you feel about Peter Abraham, he's not a hot-take shit stirrer and he usually goes to print with items that are sourced. Which leads me to believe that he got this chestnut from one of three sources: the manager (or someone close to Cora), Bloom (or someone in the FO) or at the Ownership level. He's around the club day-in and day-out, I highly doubt that he made this up out of thin air.
Seems like he's speculating to me. The idea here is that Henry/Warner would decide to fire Bloom and Bloom would save his job by saying "But wait, I need one last chance with my own manager." And ownership buys in? If any of Cora, Bloom/FO, or the owners are the source for this story then this situation is beyond fucked and we're looking at rough, rough seas ahead.
 

GB5

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I know it’s his first year but I wonder if the Sox send the hitting coach overboard. If it really is a GM v coach situation, I wonder if they tell Cora, you can come back but you need to make some changes on your staff, and see what he does?
 

grimshaw

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I like Pete Abraham -- I mean, he is worlds better than Nick Cafardo was and he isn’t a shit stirrer. That said, he’s been unusually grumpy and has had an oddly emotional edge at times this season (see: his borderline angry coverage of the Vazquez batting practice nothingburger). He’s always been a bit thin-skinned on Twitter, which seems to get worse when fans are up in arms about something or another.

All of which is to say: I didn’t read this as Pete having sources so much as there being a general feeling of frustration around the team that he's internalized.
This is how I'm reading it too. He's fine, and he has a fairly informed opinion but I think he would give us a hint if there was some dissatisfaction among ownership since it would generate some serious discussion. Even if there was a line like "There is a hint of frustration among ownership. . . etc."

I am absolutely fine if they move on from Cora but would be extremely turned off to the franchise if they moved on from Bloom without another offseason. Tt was a very weird deadline - but seems like a net positive so far before even seeing what the prospects can do. Ownership can certainly be critical they didn't at least get something out of their other rentals and gotten under the luxury tax but nothing seems like an egregious fuck up.
 
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kazuneko

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I disagree with this. This has been litigated 1000 times on the board, but the trade was one year of Betts and ~50 million dollars of David Price in exchange for a Verdugo, a 23 year old outfielder coming off a 3-WAR season, the number 44 prospect in baseball in Downs, and a catcher who had just hit .349/.393/.604 in the minors. I mean maybe with just Betts, yeah, the return could've been better. But with Price added to mix, I don't really think the return could've been better than it was.
Couldn't be better than it was? There is no way any of us could really know that. It also might be possible that the "best" he could do was okay. That's also something we'll never know.
I also don't particularly care where Downs was ranked at the time of the trade. Bloom's job is to acquire prospects that are going to develop into major league players and Downs, from that perspective, looks like a swing and a miss. Also, (per Fangraphs) Verdugo has never had a 3-WAR season. At the time of the trade he had just come off a 2-WAR season, a number he has still never surpassed.
 
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riboflav

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What year did the Red Sox fire Theo Epstein?
I think he's saying they had it in Theo at one time. Bloom is not the first. Like it didn't take this ownership group over 17 years to finally find a GM who was "analytically driven, system-building, development-focused guy." They had it before in Theo. He said nothing about how that relationship ended.
 

lexrageorge

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The idea of Bloom being on the hot seat is total rubbish. He was brought in to focus on draft and minor league development, and the team has had 2 strong drafts under Bloom (not counting 2022 yet, although early returns look promising there as well). [And here's an advance on the eye roll emoji for someone that says "what about Fabian..."; I'll take Cutter Coffey any day]

Bloom did not have the best year this year, and he will certainly be tasked by the ownership team to figure out the plan for 2023. Still not sure what happened at the trade deadline, to be honest, but I doubt he would get fired over that. But building via the draft is known to be a 4-5 year process at the minimum, and if Henry/Werner give up on that process now, then this team is truly beyond hope for the long term.

As for Cora, he is probably safe for now. But his seat gets very warm if the team starts out 2023 with a 13-21 record again. That's just the way things work; managers come and go all the time, and that is unlikely to change. The only wild card is the relationship between Bloom and Cora. If it is completely fractured (I don't believe it is; just speculating on the possibility), then Cora's job is definitely less safe than Bloom's.
 
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Red(s)HawksFan

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Having a hard time getting past the "it's been three years and Bloom hasn't won a World Series" line. Not just for its entitled arrogance, but for it being an entirely unrealistic bar to ask him to clear. I get that each of his three predecessors won a title within three years, but they were all very different circumstances than the one Bloom walked into.

Theo took over a team with a strong core of stars (Pedro, Nomar, Manny, Damon, Tek, etc) and a mandate to make the team a winner. He pressed all the right buttons, made some big acquisitions, and obviously won in 2004.

Cherington took over a team that had been billed "greatest team ever" before they collapsed at the end of 2011. He kinda lucked into the Punto trade which freed up a ton of money that allowed him to reform the lineup with a bunch of short-term free agent signings. It was a strong roster to begin with but the way every single signing that year paid off (plus Lackey returning to form after TJS) was kinda like hitting the lottery. It wasn't the sort of thing that can easily be replicated.

Dombrowski took over a roster with some good to great young players just coming into their own (Bogaerts, Betts, etc) and more prospects in the pipeline (Devers), and he was tasked with filling in around them. And he spent big to do it. Bigger than any Sox GM before him. And that paid off.

Bloom was given an aging, expensive (or about to get really expensive) roster and tasked with remaking the whole organization while reining in spending a bit. He nearly pulled off the 2013-esque unexpected run to a title last year, but I think the path he's on in terms of a title more resembles the one Theo took to win in 2007. One that might take a little longer but will feature a new generation of homegrown players. One that will have mostly his own stamp on it rather than a relatively even mix of himself and his predecessor. Of course that's only if ownership has the patience to see it through. It took Theo five years to bring that 2007 team to fruition, which to me means giving Bloom at least two more years if not three (2020 barely counts as a season IMO) to make his vision a reality.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Jul 15, 2005
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It’s really hard for me to believe that they’d can Bloom after 3 years that included a pandemic-shortened season on one end and an ALCS appearance on the other. That’s not just impulsive, it’d be reckless.

This offseason will be fascinating. Lots of available money, many moving parts. Do they find/pay for a couple of foundational pieces? Go the 2013 route? Buy some other teams’ top prospects or young MLBers by taking on bad contracts? Why hire Bloom in the first place if you’re not going to give him a shot at franchise building this offseason?
 

moondog80

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Sep 20, 2005
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I can't see them firing Bloom or Cora. What I could see is Cora asking that either his option doesn't get picked up or he gets an extension.
 

Harry Hooper

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I haven't read the article, but maybe Pete included that "It's been three years and Bloom hasn't won a World Series" line as a means of countering anyone who wanted to dismiss concerns over Bloom's status as way overblown. So, not a fists pounding the table "Bloom must go," but rather observing that he doesn't even have the WS banner that his 2 short-lived predecessors achieved as a bulwark against the owners sacking him.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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They canned DD a year after a historic season and towards the end of an injury riddled yet still winning season, so anything can happen. Bloom inherited a strong but top heavy roster with limited depth and has turned it into mostly payroll flexibility and prospects several years away.

Close to 30% of the opening day roster has been DFAd and most of Bloom’s trades haven’t looked like winners. I don’t think he should be canned- he deserves another off-season, but if for some reason the organization doesn’t trust him to execute the plan, stranger things have happened.

This is a really pivotal off-season that has to be nailed on several fronts.
 
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PrometheusWakefield

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May 25, 2009
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Having a hard time getting past the "it's been three years and Bloom hasn't won a World Series" line.
This would be an incredibly stupid way to run an organization and a clear demonstration that this organization will have no patience or confidence in any future GM. The last thing this organization needs is the chaos of a leadership transition this offseason.
 

lexrageorge

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They canned DD a year after a historic season and towards the end of an injury riddled yet still winning season, so anything can happen. Bloom inherited a strong, top heavy roster and has turned it into mostly payroll flexibility and prospects several years away. Close to 30% of the opening day roster has been DFAd and most of Bloom’s trades haven’t looked like winners. I don’t think he should be canned- he deserves another off-season, but if for some reason the organization doesn’t trust him to execute the plan, stranger things have happened. This is a really pivotal off-season that has to be nailed on several fronts.
DD was canned because there were unreconcilable differences in philosophy going forward. It's reasonable to believe the Dombrowski wanted to keep both Betts and Sale, but the front office was clearly not happy when Sale was extended, and the timing is proof enough to me that Sale was the last straw for Henry & Werner.

Bloom did not inherit a strong roster; instead, his first order of business was to follow ownership's directive and trade Betts to the highest bidder. So, yes, perhaps with Betts and Price the roster was strong, but you really cannot count either of them. Sale's injuries cannot be pinned on Bloom, nor can the makeup of the 2020 roster once he and Ed Rod were unexpectedly lost for the entire season.

Agree that the return on the Betts trade is looking very meh-like, but that is the typical outcome for these dollar for 3 quarters type trades. The only other trade that Bloom missed on was the Renfroe trade, but the canvases for Binelas and, to a lesser extent, Hamilton are still being painted.
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

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Mar 14, 2006
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I’m of the mindset that both Bloom and Cora should get one more season to show their value. If the team is not competitive this time next year, it may be time to move on. Not yet.
 

Ted Cox 4 president

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I think Pete Abe’s comment about three years and no World Series needs to be read in context. He was referring to the fact that both Cherington and Dombrowski won a World Series quickly, and yet they were still were shown the door by the ownership. He was not saying, “Three years and no World Series!??! Fire him!” He was saying that the ownership doesn’t cut its top employees much slack, even when they have had great success.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Having a hard time getting past the "it's been three years and Bloom hasn't won a World Series" line. Not just for its entitled arrogance, but for it being an entirely unrealistic bar to ask him to clear. I get that each of his three predecessors won a title within three years, but they were all very different circumstances than the one Bloom walked into.
I think Pete Abe’s comment about three years and no World Series needs to be read in context. He was referring to the fact that both Cherington and Dombrowski won a World Series quickly, and yet they were still were shown the door by the ownership. He was not saying, “Three years and no World Series!??! Fire him!” He was saying that the ownership doesn’t cut its top employees much slack, even when they have had great success.
TC4P has it right. I don't think that Abraham is saying, "Bloom has three years to win a World Series or he's gone", but I think he was saying that his predecessors won WS within a year or two of their hiring and were gone two seasons later. This is more of a commentary on ownership and their mercurial approach to the Red Sox Front Office than a condemnation of Bloom.
 

Max Power

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I’m of the mindset that both Bloom and Cora should get one more season to show their value. If the team is not competitive this time next year, it may be time to move on. Not yet.
This is reasonable. If the major league roster still looks weak at the end of next year and there are no clear reinforcements knocking on the door in the minors, Bloom needs to go. Four years is plenty of time for a system to show that it's bearing fruit.
 

Diamond Don Aase

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Tt was a very weird deadline - but seems like a net positive so far before even seeing what the prospects can do. Ownership can certainly be critical they didn't at least get something out of their other rentals and gotten under the luxury tax but nothing seems like an egregious fuck up.
Prospects involved in 2022 Red Sox deadline deals:

2B Max Ferguson, 23: .675 OPS and .078 ISO in 70 PA with Greenville (A+)

2B Enmanuel Valdez, 23: .667 OPS and 27% K% in 100 PA with Worcester (AAA)

LF Wilyer Abreu, 23: .629 OPS and 32% K% in 91 PA with Portland (AA)

LF Corey Rosier, 23 on 9/7: .515 OPS and 31% K% in 58 PA with Greenville (A+)

Jay Groome, 24: 3.38 ERA and 1 HRA in 4 GS with El Paso (AAA)
 

chawson

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Prospects involved in 2022 Red Sox deadline deals:

2B Max Ferguson, 23: .675 OPS and .078 ISO in 70 PA with Greenville (A+)

2B Enmanuel Valdez, 23: .667 OPS and 27% K% in 100 PA with Worcester (AAA)

LF Wilyer Abreu, 23: .629 OPS and 32% K% in 91 PA with Portland (AA)

LF Corey Rosier, 23 on 9/7: .515 OPS and 31% K% in 58 PA with Greenville (A+)

Jay Groome, 24: 3.38 ERA and 1 HRA in 4 GS with El Paso (AAA)
Max Ferguson, 24.3 BB%
Enmanuel Valdez, 12.0 BB%
Wilyer Abreu, 17.6 BB%
Corey Rosier, 17.2 BB%

The OPS and K rates aren't great on the surface, but there's surely more going on here. I'm sure they're adapting to a different hitting program and approach, and the (far) above-average walk rates don't seem coincidental.
 

lexrageorge

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Hopefully the Sox front office uses more than 60-100 plate appearances in a new league before passing final judgment on their prospects.
 

Diamond Don Aase

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Max Ferguson, 24.3 BB%
Enmanuel Valdez, 12.0 BB%
Wilyer Abreu, 17.6 BB%
Corey Rosier, 17.2 BB%

The OPS and K rates aren't great on the surface, but there's surely more going on here. I'm sure they're adapting to a different hitting program and approach, and the (far) above-average walk rates don't seem coincidental.
Rosier’s walk rate would represent significant improvement from previous performance and the combination of a .214 BABIP, 10% infield fly ball rate, and 23% line drive rate does seem incongruous. However, being relegated to left field while sharing an outfield with Nick Decker and Gilberto Jimenez amplifies the pressure on Rosier’s offense.

The other three acquisitions have all previously demonstrated similar walk rates complemented by better offensive performance. These first four weeks are no more meaningful than David Hamilton’s first four weeks in the organization, performance that he has failed to even approach since. It is still discouraging, though, that every one of the four acquisitions has failed to hit. They may be in new leagues but they all remained at the same levels and only Valdez, in his sixth professional season, could be considered young for their level.