Pitching Depth

grimshaw

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May 16, 2007
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Same deal as positional players. Here's a round up of the guys in camp and their odds of contributing. This is keeping in mind Watson or another lefty could still be signed.

Starters - Jalen Beeks - 24 was lights out in Portland last year and pitched well in AAA. He is the one prospect who may have a shot beating out Wright and company if Rodriguez doesn't break camp off the DL. I would think he'd get a look sooner than later since he'll be 25 in July., Brian Johnson - 27 and Steven Wright -33 are the more likely candidates to pitch meaningful innings since neither have options remaining. I would assume Johnson has no trade value, but Wright may have little. Wright may also be facing a suspension. Hector Velazquez - 29 had the one rough outing but was otherwise decent and I believe has options.

Roenis Elias - 29. Nobody likes Roenis Elias. I''d be shocked if he's still in the organization on March 15th. Chandler Shepherd- 25 is going to try starting. He had a good year in the minors so could be useful at some point.

The depth in camp is good, but at least two of those guys could be off the team and if there is an injury or two it could get dicey.

Non roster invitiees: Justin Haley - 26 came back to Boston after they lost him in the Rule 5 to the Twins, but he's now on a minor league deal. Doubtful he makes the team. Kyle Martin - 27 took a step backwards after two straight solid minor league seasons. Unless there are some injuries on the 40 man it looks like he is basically on a tryout. Bobby Poyner - 25 is a funky delivery type guy with limited stuff who has gotten it done, particularly last year in AA. He has a reverse split so far, but also can get lefties out.

The JAG section - Fernando Rodriguez Jr. - 33 Marcus Walden - 29

40 man guys - I'll put Thornburg - 29 here. Some of us think he's a lock, but his outlook is dubious with the type of injury he had. If he struggles in camp he could start the year on the DL. Ty Buttrey - 24 pitched well in AA. Then pitched not well in AAA. A long shot, but could be a double header arm down the line and is a lefty. Williams Jerez - 25 appears to still be in the organization since he was a 2nd rounder in 2011. He may be one of the first DFA's.

Austin Maddox - 26 looked like he belonged when he was up and made the playoff roster. Could stick with the team if there are injuries but otherwise should fill the lofty void left by Blaine Boyer.

Ben Taylor - 26 probably lost a few spots on the AAA depth chart to Maddox and Buttrey but could be up again when they need 13 pitchers.

Best guess:

Sale, Price, Porcello, Pomeranz and Wright

If Wright looks good, I think he gets the spot if he isn't suspended. Unless he's awful, I think he's at least the long man. Otherwise it's a fight between Johnson and Beeks.

Bullpen: Kelly, Smith, Hembree lefty acquisition, Thornburg, Barnes, Kimbrel

Robbie Scott, Workman and Maddox still have options. Hembree is on the bubble and has no options so there could be some phantom DL'ing if Workman and Maddox pitch well. Poyner is also a dark horse and could exist with Watson since both don't have troublesome splits.
 
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twosevenkid

New Member
Jul 15, 2016
15
The starting rotation has me worried. Here are baseball-reference 2018 predictions:

Here are our likely 200 IP guys:
1) Sale - 3.36 ERA, 190 IP, 230 K - I feel this is conservative on the ERA and IP side
2) Price - 3.77 ERA, 117 IP, 115 K - Obviously this takes into calculation injury plagued seasons, if he remains healthy i think the ERA has much more upside (low 3's), IP closer to 200.
4) Porcello - 4.21 ERA, 184 IP, 164 K - i feel this is about right for ERA, but there is downside to upper 4's, or 3 depending on how he comes out. IP seems about right but could be higher, K's might be lower

The rest:
3) Pomeranz - 3.63 ERA, 150 IP, 159 K - This guy has only reached 30 starts twice and has never gone over the 200 inning mark. Lots of upside, but remains questionable he won't be consistent through the end
5) Wright - 4.39 ERA, 84 IP, 69 K - lots of questions, will he serve a suspension?, he hasn't pitched in what feels like 1.5 years, and really flamed out from his injury, will his arm strength return?
6) Eduardo Rodriguez - 4.24 ERA, 138 IP, 141 K - he's out 6 months, I sincerely doubt he'll hit these numbers

I almost would think we'd need to look at a borderline 6 man rotation given durability of these guys, or potentially rest Pomeranz an extra day to allow him to last all season. Problem is we don't really have 6 guys at the start of the season, we have a lot of guys we can ask to step up in the minors, but a lot of open questions. I can't believe i'm saying this, but I would feel good about bringing Lackey back for a 1 year contract
 

Savin Hillbilly

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Jul 10, 2007
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The wrong side of the bridge....
Williams Jerez - 25 appears to still be in the organization since he was a 2nd rounder in 2011. He may be one of the first DFA's.
He might also be a dark horse LOOGY candidate, since he has shown strong platoon splits; his overall numbers the past couple of seasons are meh, but he held LHH to an under-.500 OPS last year, allowing just two XBH (neither of them HR) to 88 batters. Probably worth keeping around to see if that potential bears fruit, especially since LH relief does not seem to be an organizational strength at the moment (and Poyner is an anti-LOOGY).
 

chawson

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Aug 1, 2006
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The starting rotation has me worried. Here are baseball-reference 2018 predictions:

Here are our likely 200 IP guys:
1) Sale - 3.36 ERA, 190 IP, 230 K - I feel this is conservative on the ERA and IP side
2) Price - 3.77 ERA, 117 IP, 115 K - Obviously this takes into calculation injury plagued seasons, if he remains healthy i think the ERA has much more upside (low 3's), IP closer to 200.
4) Porcello - 4.21 ERA, 184 IP, 164 K - i feel this is about right for ERA, but there is downside to upper 4's, or 3 depending on how he comes out. IP seems about right but could be higher, K's might be lower

The rest:
3) Pomeranz - 3.63 ERA, 150 IP, 159 K - This guy has only reached 30 starts twice and has never gone over the 200 inning mark. Lots of upside, but remains questionable he won't be consistent through the end
5) Wright - 4.39 ERA, 84 IP, 69 K - lots of questions, will he serve a suspension?, he hasn't pitched in what feels like 1.5 years, and really flamed out from his injury, will his arm strength return?
6) Eduardo Rodriguez - 4.24 ERA, 138 IP, 141 K - he's out 6 months, I sincerely doubt he'll hit these numbers

I almost would think we'd need to look at a borderline 6 man rotation given durability of these guys, or potentially rest Pomeranz an extra day to allow him to last all season. Problem is we don't really have 6 guys at the start of the season, we have a lot of guys we can ask to step up in the minors, but a lot of open questions. I can't believe i'm saying this, but I would feel good about bringing Lackey back for a 1 year contract
They should know, internally at least, what version of Steven Wright they have by the middle of spring training. If his pitches are tracking like they did in spring 2016, that's lovely. But he's not a major leaguer when he's not mechanically right. It'd be great not to give away five games early in the season letting him work it out.
 

brandonchristensen

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Feb 4, 2012
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EdRod isn’t out 6 months from now - it was 6 months from October.

He will (hopefully) be back in May I would think.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Despite a couple injury-related question marks, the Red Sox have six starters in camp. I don't see anyone looking for a job seeing the Red Sox as a good spot to try to latch on.
 

grimshaw

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He might also be a dark horse LOOGY candidate, since he has shown strong platoon splits; his overall numbers the past couple of seasons are meh, but he held LHH to an under-.500 OPS last year, allowing just two XBH (neither of them HR) to 88 batters. Probably worth keeping around to see if that potential bears fruit, especially since LH relief does not seem to be an organizational strength at the moment (and Poyner is an anti-LOOGY).
Could be.

They didn't sign Watson and my guess is they won't sign a lefty at this point so another bubble guy survives. For once they play 5 straight games to start the season, so maybe Brian Johnson is the long guy.

8 straight games vs the Rays and Marlins. Mmmmm delicious.
 

Rich Garces Belly

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Jun 14, 2009
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Despite a couple injury-related question marks, the Red Sox have six starters in camp. I don't see anyone looking for a job seeing the Red Sox as a good spot to try to latch on.
Sometimes that makes the team even more appealing as they either make the team outright or get paid until May 1st when their contract opens them up to any other team (where they can have a better idea where they have the best chance to start).
 

chawson

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Looks like Tommy Layne has returned from his false flag mission in the Bronx.

 

Sampo Gida

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I wonder if Clay Buchholz on a minor league deal would be considered. Maybe a year away and new coaching staff/manager can turn him around
 

Rasputin

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I wonder if Clay Buchholz on a minor league deal would be considered. Maybe a year away and new coaching staff/manager can turn him around
I think our starting depth is pretty good unless more injuries happen while Rodriguez and Wright are on the shelf. Whoever gets the #5 slot coming out of spring is the de facto #7 guy behind the five projected starters and Wright.

Velazquez and Elias have options so if they can manage to keep both Johnson and Wright in the organization when Rodriguez comes back, we're looking at Wright, Johnson, Velazquez, and Elias as depth starters and that's not bad.
 

Mike F

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I wonder if Clay Buchholz on a minor league deal would be considered. Maybe a year away and new coaching staff/manager can turn him around
Yeah, Buck and ERod could equal one starter with each missing half a year.
 

Pozo the Clown

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Sep 13, 2006
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Per the link below:
  • The Red Sox will welcome reliever Tyler Thornburg back to the hill for the first time since he underwent surgery to address thoracic outlet syndrome, Pete Abraham of the Boston Globe reports on Twitter. A bullpen session is just one of many steps back, of course, and Thornburg still has some hurdles to clear. He has yet to pitch competitively for the Boston organization (excepting brief spring action last year) since coming over in a trade in advance of the 2017 season.
It would be great for the Sox bullpen if (and it's a big if) Thornburg can recapture his 2016 form.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/boston-red-sox
 

BigPapiMPD34

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Apr 9, 2006
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Here is more info from about the rehabbing pitchers - Quotes pasted below. Cora also implies that Wright/Rodriguez likely won't be ready for Opening Day, but only would need the #5 SP once until April 14 (pending rain-outs). Giving Brian Johnson 1 start seems to be the best option since he is out of options.

http://www.weei.com/blogs/rob-bradford/red-sox-injury-updates-big-steps-tyler-thornburg-steven-wright-marco-hernandez
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/clubhouse_insider/2018/02/red_sox_morning_notes_steven_wright_unlikely_to_open_seas_0

Steven Wright:
"First time I was on the top of the mound, my second bullpen," said Wright, who also was getting guidance from Tim Wakefield during the session. "A lot of it is just getting my time in and trusting the knee is going to hold because I threw last year in so much pain and discomfort. To finally get on the mound and throw with some force, it feels good to give you that little victory. If there’s one thing I learned from this surgery it’s that you have to try to have a little bit of a victory every day. Today I feel like was a big one because now I know that my knee feels good. And I can start really pushing it as far as getting off the mound."

Tyler Thornburg:
"Throughout this process there’s always been good days and bad days and days after I've thrown where I’m like I’m going to be sore tomorrow or whatever," said Thornburg, who threw 20 pitches. "But just the fact I finished this bullpen and felt like I could throw way more, felt like I could have thrown harder, and just the fact it doesn’t feel tired, it doesn’t feel like it’s going to be overly sore or anything tomorrow is probably a better feeling than even throwing with location I was throwing in my bullpen today. How it’s feeling is the no. 1 goal so I’m really excited about where it is and how it feels right now."

Eduardo Rodriguez:
"I mean I just feel that last year it was the knee all the time," Rodriguez said. "You guys know that. It was all the time. Now I don’t think about it, just confident and feel my shoulder. That’s the difference now."
 

curly2

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Jul 8, 2003
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Porcello looked encouraging in his start today vs Houston.

It's hard to get TOO excited from one spring training start, but considering he basically lost the movement on his pitches last year, this is very encouraging.
 

Pozo the Clown

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Sep 13, 2006
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It's hard to get TOO excited from one spring training start, but considering he basically lost the movement on his pitches last year, this is very encouraging.
Perhaps Pedro and D-Lowe are to be thanked.

From the link below:
"I think the biggest thing is getting back to an aggressive mentality with the sinker, the two-seam fastball and driving that downhill," Porcello said afterward. "Job's not done, have to maintain that every time I take the ball but just throwing it with conviction again, and not worrying about if a guy hits it or you give up a homer and being stubborn with it. That's kind of my bread and butter, that's kind of my identity and i'm sticking with it."

Over the last month leading up to his start on Thursday, Porcello worked closely with pitching coach Dana LeVangie to alter some of his mechanics. Former Red Sox starter Derek Lowe, who threw a sinkerball like Porcello, also arrived to help out the righty and Pedro Martinez was on had, too, to suggest some tweaks.

While Porcello may never win another Cy Young, he can certainly improve upon his 2017 work. It looks like he's determined to do such.

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2018/03/rick_porcello_sharp_in_first_s.html
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Mar 11, 2007
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With the launch angle "revolution" swing.... one would think that a heavy sinker would be something most pitchers would be jumping on and pitching coaches would really emphasize and look to develop.
Also.... shit... if Rick can look like his 2016 version of Rick... we get a fully healthy vintage Price and something even close to last years versions of Sale and Pomeranz and it won't matter who the hell is in the 5 slot!
.... I still think EdRo will turn into maybe not quite an ace, but a guy who would be a "no. 2" on most other clubs. We've seen what he can do when he's healthy and... not tipping pitches. :beatit:
 

simplicio

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Apr 11, 2012
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Bobby Poyner's been perfect in three appearances so far in ST. Seems like his stuff (deceptive, not fast) is working; he got an extremely weak swinging strike yesterday and the camera cut to Cora applauding, so it looks like he's being noticed.
 

simplicio

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Last year Poyner held RHB to a .441 OPS on a .220 BABIP and LHB to a .654 OPS on a .357 BABIP. Doesn't strike me as a LOOGY; seems like late inning upside if his stuff translates.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Given the makeup of the division, do they even need a LOOGY type?
Well, just under half their games are vs. divisional opponents, so they will need to win some of those other games. It does look like early in the season they won't be facing many tough LHH, in the division or out of it, but later on they will face a few lefty-stacked lineups like Texas and Washington.

But as simplicio points out, even if they do need a LOOGY, Poyner probably ain't it.
 

TonyPenaNeverJuiced

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Pom just removed from his start, walked off but looks like he did something he didn't like. Had left a few curves up in the zone before then...
 

Pozo the Clown

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Pomeranz just removed from his start today after a mound visit. Hard to tell what happened. Fingers crossed that it's just precautionary.

EDIT: Beaten to the punch by TonyPena.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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Pomeranz just removed from his start today after a mound visit. Hard to tell what happened. Fingers crossed that it's just precautionary.

EDIT: Beaten to the punch by TonyPena.
At this point in spring training, you don't risk it when something doesn't quite feel right. It's definitely too early to panic. It could easily just be a little discomfort that goes away by the morning.
 

TonyPenaNeverJuiced

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I just rewatched his 5 pitches in the second. Right before he started the inning, Pom felt the crook of his left elbow for a moment. On the 5th pitch, he hung a curve ball and immediately looked into the dugout. Came out of the game holding a ball still, so hopefully it's not actually the elbow - maybe it's back stiffness/spasms? While he looked decent in the ~20 pitches he threw, he did look to be exerting notably less effort on a number of pitches.
 

Hank Scorpio

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Back tweak or forearm soreness I’m ok with. Not a shoulder. Plenty of time to rest in March. Just be ready by April 1st, please.
Isn't "forearm tightness" one of the harbingers of Tommy John surgery? Hope I'm wrong.

Sox seem to have about $8M to play with, and somewhat superfluous or uncertain parts in Moreland (6.5M), Thornburg ($2M), Holt ($2M), Leon ($2M) - most of whom should be moveable contracts. I'm not sure that gets us into the Cobb or Lynn sweepstakes, and anything over a $50M contract will cost us picks/pool money, but I do think we have some flexibility to go out and get another back of the rotation starter.

Maybe we can get Pablo Sandoval to restructure his payoff into something involving UberEats promo codes.
 

Jerry’s Curl

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Feb 6, 2018
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It can be, but it can also be nothing requiring surgery, as it was last time around with Pomeranz. And as he seems to be saying it is here too. But there's a chance they find a tear?
There’s always a chance. Wouldn’t be good if Brian Johnson is your #4 starter to start the year. But I’m optimistic.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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It can be, but it can also be nothing requiring surgery, as it was last time around with Pomeranz. And as he seems to be saying it is here too. But there's a chance they find a tear?
If you google "pomeranz forearm tightness" you not only get hits for today but last spring and 2012. Seems to be a common occurrence for him and perhaps just a quirk of his body as it prepares for the season.
 

chrisfont9

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If you google "pomeranz forearm tightness" you not only get hits for today but last spring and 2012. Seems to be a common occurrence for him and perhaps just a quirk of his body as it prepares for the season.
Or it means one of these days it'll give. Who knows? But I'm more inclined toward your assessment, that he just gets little tweaks sometimes for whatever reason.