Pitching Targets

AB in DC

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I'm guessing he's being distracted by his high profile playoff combustions.
No, I'm thinking about this guy.

A moment of frustration after a bad outing quickly escalated into looming sense of frustration and regret for Washington Nationals reliever Drew Storen as his season came to an end with a slam of his locker.
His meltdowns in DC are legendary. But like I said, his stats are pretty good otherwise.
 

soxhop411

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Stark's take: Red Sox president Dave Dombrowski has always been aggressive this time of year when he thinks his team has a chance to win. But he's shopping for a commodity that's virtually not for sale.

Speaking of which, the Red Sox are one of the clubs that has asked about White Sox ace Chris Sale but have balked at the mammoth price tag. One source says Dombrowski has always coveted Oakland's Sonny Gray and would still have interest. But you can forget the ace behind door No. 3, because Tampa Bay is highly unlikely to send Chris Archer to Boston.

Teams that have talked with the Red Sox say Dombrowski is also prepared to wait for a few days in case a team or two falls out of the race and decides to sell. Seattle, Kansas City and Detroit could all fit that profile, though it's far from certain any of those teams would look to move a top-of-the-rotation starter.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/tradedeadline_deadlinebuzz/mlb-trade-deadline-daily
 

simplicio

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Why do we need another starter? Currently looks like our worst performer may be Price, unless Pomeranz is a complete dud. Are we going to replace the ace?

There's nothing to get excited about with Robertson either, with his 5.52 ERA over his last 30 games. Is that even an upgrade over Tommy Layne? If we're going to have to trade one of the Portland studs, I'd rather start at the top of the Royals bullpen and see how far down we can dig.
 

Toe Nash

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Why do we need another starter? Currently looks like our worst performer may be Price, unless Pomeranz is a complete dud. Are we going to replace the ace?

There's nothing to get excited about with Robertson either, with his 5.52 ERA over his last 30 games. Is that even an upgrade over Tommy Layne? If we're going to have to trade one of the Portland studs, I'd rather start at the top of the Royals bullpen and see how far down we can dig.
Robertson's ERA was 3.22 until 4 appearances ago. His periphs are normal. He didn't pitch for 12 days with a strained left leg and since then has 2 clean appearances and 2 terrible ones, which destroyed his ERA.

He may end up needing a DL stint, so I wouldn't pay a high price, but there's no reason to believe he's not a good pitcher.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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Why do we need another starter? Currently looks like our worst performer may be Price, unless Pomeranz is a complete dud. Are we going to replace the ace?
If you can upgrade Eduardo to Quintana without having to include any other major league pieces or Moncada you have to consider it. I wouldn't include both Devers and Benintendi to get it done but one of them might bo worth it depending on the rest of the package. If the price is higher than that (Eduardo and Benintendi or Devers+), Hahn was never seriously looking to deal him.
 

jscola85

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I'm wondering if Chris Marrero would have any value as a package filler.
A 27-year old 1B/DH with almost 2,000 plate appearances in AAA at a .772 OPS pretty much screams "AAAA player". So no, I doubt it unless the team in question had some absolutely massive organizational hole at 1B in the majors/upper minors. He's having a nice year but by no means is he absolutely tattooing the ball.
 

koufax32

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Auger34

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It's the "finish with" part that must be the problem then. If it really was just Nintendo, Kopech, and change Sale would already be here.
If I had to guess its Benintendi, Swihart, Devers, ERod and Chavis/Basabe
 

BornToRun

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If the Red Sox want Sale, the deal starts with Yoan Moncada or Andrew Benintendi (whom the White Sox wanted in last year’s draft before the Red Sox sniped him a pick before).

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/what-makes-closer-aroldis-chapman-valuable-and-other-trade-info-140445080.html?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma
If it's an either/or scenario with Moncada and Benintendi then I think I'd be able to stomach that if they'll take Andrew as the centerpiece.

I'm guessing it'd be 4-5 players going to Chicago. Beni/Edro/Kopech/Devers? Maybe see how much extra Robertson would cost to add on to Sale.

Edit: forgot about Swihart.
 

moondog80

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It does seem that the price of established talent, in terms of prospects, is as high as it's ever been, so right or wrong, we can toss aside the fact that the Dave Cameron's list has Benintendi and Moncada each within sniffing distance of Sale, just by themselves. Eventually the market will run out of teams willing to pay those prices, a few teams will end up not finding trade partners for their pending FAs and watch them walk for nothing, and the market will change. But for now, I doubt the White Sox say yes to both of those guys for Sale.
 

NoXInNixon

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I would pretty much do any deal that doesn't include both Moncada and Benintendi and doesn't touch the big league roster.
 

BeantownBaseball

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Whatever we do, do NOT trade Moncada. He is the only one I wouldn't trade. wayyyy too much upside. You don't trade a position player that could become a better version of Robinson Cano
 

geoduck no quahog

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Out of curiosity, where is Moncada's final resting position. I've read he'll probably outgrow 2B (which is blocked, anyway) - which leaves 3B, OF or 1B. Any consensus? 3B seems ideal but he hasn't played there (and does he have the arm).
 

Rasputin

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Out of curiosity, where is Moncada's final resting position. I've read he'll probably outgrow 2B (which is blocked, anyway) - which leaves 3B, OF or 1B. Any consensus? 3B seems ideal but he hasn't played there (and does he have the arm).
My guess is third, but that's based on not trading Benintendi. Benintendi takes left, Moncada, Ramirez, and Shaw cover third, first, and DH.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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It does seem that the price of established talent, in terms of prospects, is as high as it's ever been, so right or wrong, we can toss aside the fact that the Dave Cameron's list has Benintendi and Moncada each within sniffing distance of Sale, just by themselves. Eventually the market will run out of teams willing to pay those prices, a few teams will end up not finding trade partners for their pending FAs and watch them walk for nothing, and the market will change. But for now, I doubt the White Sox say yes to both of those guys for Sale.
Oh, I think it's very likely the White Sox would say yes if both of those two are in the deal. And extremely, extremely unlikely the Red Sox would do it.
 

Laser Show

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I would pretty much do any deal that doesn't include both Moncada and Benintendi and doesn't touch the big league roster.
I'm all about the now-open Killer B's window so I agree with you. Moncada and Benintendi should be able to be key contributors in the next 3 to 5 years. However, I'd include Kopech and Groome too. We have GOT to start developing our own pitchers or things will never turn around on that front.
 

moondog80

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Oh, I think it's very likely the White Sox would say yes if both of those two are in the deal. And extremely, extremely unlikely the Red Sox would do it.
I agree with the second part. But given what we just saw 2 months of Chapman go for, I think the White Sox might hold out for more for 3+ years of bargain salary Sale.
 

BeantownBaseball

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Pitchers have very short primes. No way 2-3 good years of sale is worth 10-15 great years of Moncada even if we win a championship this year. I'd rather win 3-4 more championships over the next 15 years than mortgage the future.


KEEP MONCADA
 

soxhop411

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“@bradfo: Dombrowski said he received 5 trade proposals today he hadn’t gotten before today. But said wasn’t close on any trades”

“@alexspeier: Dombrowski: ‘I’m not looking necessarily to do something significant…Can we be better? Sure. Will we be open-minded? Sure.’”

“@EvanDrellich: Dave Dombrowski said Sox have received five new trade proposals today. So it’s busy.”


“@PeteAbe: Dombrowski is open-minded, he said. But doesn’t feel the #RedSox *have* to do something.”

“@bradfo: Dombrowski said teams haven’t loosened up on trade demands yet”

“@TimBritton: Dombrowski said a few times that the Red Sox are ”open-minded“ to trades, but not necessarily seeking out moves.”


“@TimBritton: Dombrowski said he’s received five trade proposals today alone. Doesn’t like any of them.”

“@EvanDrellich: Dombrowski said prices have not come down in trade market. Declined to discuss Buchholz as specific trade candidate. Noted SP depth valuable”
“@ScottLauber: Dombrowski: Craig Kimbrel’s faster-than-expected timeline lessens the #RedSox’s need to acquire another reliever before the deadline.”



----
“@EvanDrellich: Dombrowski on Buchholz: ”I thought his stuff was outstanding the other day. So he’s got a place to help us.“”


“@alexspeier: Dombrowski said that Buchholz showed his best stuff of the season in his last outing.”


“@PeteAbe: Dombrowski full of praise for how Buchholz threw on Saturday. Mentioned needing starter depth.”




“@PeteAbe: Nobody wants to hear it in the Twitter Hate Village. But Buchholz is the No. 6 starter. Pickings beyond that are slim.”
 
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AlNipper49

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“@bradfo: Dombrowski said he received 5 trade proposals today he hadn’t gotten before today. But said wasn’t close on any trades”

“@alexspeier: Dombrowski: ‘I’m not looking necessarily to do something significant…Can we be better? Sure. Will we be open-minded? Sure.’”

“@EvanDrellich: Dave Dombrowski said Sox have received five new trade proposals today. So it’s busy.”


“@PeteAbe: Dombrowski is open-minded, he said. But doesn’t feel the #RedSox *have* to do something.”

“@bradfo: Dombrowski said teams haven’t loosened up on trade demands yet”

“@TimBritton: Dombrowski said a few times that the Red Sox are ”open-minded“ to trades, but not necessarily seeking out moves.”


“@TimBritton: Dombrowski said he’s received five trade proposals today alone. Doesn’t like any of them.”

“@EvanDrellich: Dombrowski said prices have not come down in trade market. Declined to discuss Buchholz as specific trade candidate. Noted SP depth valuable”
“@ScottLauber: Dombrowski: Craig Kimbrel’s faster-than-expected timeline lessens the #RedSox’s need to acquire another reliever before the deadline.”



----
“@EvanDrellich: Dombrowski on Buchholz: ”I thought his stuff was outstanding the other day. So he’s got a place to help us.“”


“@alexspeier: Dombrowski said that Buchholz showed his best stuff of the season in his last outing.”


“@PeteAbe: Dombrowski full of praise for how Buchholz threw on Saturday. Mentioned needing starter depth.”




“@PeteAbe: Nobody wants to hear it in the Twitter Hate Village. But Buchholz is the No. 6 starter. Pickings beyond that are slim.”
Nice knowing ya Clay
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Moncada could give us the 33 homers 100 RBIs .320 line Cano put up in 2012, along with 35-40 steals
My point was that by comparing him to Cano, you point out that for another team he could be a 2B, while for the Red Sox he's going to be either a 3B or corner OF. Since offense is a bit harder to find at 2B than 3B, Moncada might be our best bang-for-buck trade chip.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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Pitchers have very short primes. No way 2-3 good years of sale is worth 10-15 great years of Moncada even if we win a championship this year. I'd rather win 3-4 more championships over the next 15 years than mortgage the future.


KEEP MONCADA
The Red Sox don't control Moncada for 10-15 years. You can't factor that into his value when discussing theoretical trades. They control him for 6 years. That's what you compare to the 3.5 for Sale.

I still don't want to see him traded, but his value us currently limited to the actual years he is controlled.
 
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Stanley Steamer

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After watching tonight, seeing how they are playing at home and knowing what the schedule offers going forward, I wouldn't be selling the farm for the proverbial missing piece. The cost is too high (right now), and the risk to the future too great to feel certain that such a trade would guarantee the playoffs, let alone another title. I sort of trust DD, and like what he said just now. If the right deal presents itself over the next week, then maybe you give up more than you might like, but I don't think there's much wrong with letting this team determine it's destiny, plus a few August adjustments.
We have a pitching issue to sort out, but our position players look so solid going forward that I fear making a major shift. I want the Sox to win it all this year, but I honestly don't think they will. Thinking in those terms, it' s essential we don't give up too much right now.
Sorry to be Debbie Downer over here.
 

Wayapman

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Aug 19, 2012
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After watching tonight, seeing how they are playing at home and knowing what the schedule offers going forward, I wouldn't be selling the farm for the proverbial missing piece. The cost is too high (right now), and the risk to the future too great to feel certain that such a trade would guarantee the playoffs, let alone another title. I sort of trust DD, and like what he said just now. If the right deal presents itself over the next week, then maybe you give up more than you might like, but I don't think there's much wrong with letting this team determine it's destiny, plus a few August adjustments.
We have a pitching issue to sort out, but our position players look so solid going forward that I fear making a major shift. I want the Sox to win it all this year, but I honestly don't think they will. Thinking in those terms, it' s essential we don't give up too much right now.
Sorry to be Debbie Downer over here.
I don't get why everyone is pumping the doom and gloom outlook. Was tonight a tough loss? Yes, but Pomeranz looked very good and should help solidify the back end of the rotation. Was the Twins series agonizing? Yes, but there were still bright spots. The offense is still insanely good and Stephen Wright's pixie dust continues to shimmer. Lastly Ziggy has looked like every bit the excellent pickup we thought he was.

We all knew what the issues were for this team.

1) SP: back end of the rotation and our "ace" looking more like a disgrace. DD went out and got Pomeranz to help and for 9 innings pitched he has looked excellent and he had 1 inning that was an abject disaster he never even recorded an out in. Edro has started showing progress as well and if he can be a league average pitcher or better going forward our SP is in good shape

2) the pen: the injuries have absolutely killed us here. Kimbrel back soon will help and give us a good foundation of Kimbrel, Ziggy, Taz, Barnes and Ross. We need another strong option in the pen and that is the only trade we should be making in the current market IMO. If Kelly is able to become Andrew Miller redux lite, then this is solved from within

3) LF: with the strength of our offense and the return of BROCKHOLT I don't think this is a big issue. We can get by with the merry go round of mediocrity in left. The fact that Mookie is banged up is a concern but it looks like he may just need an extra couple of days rest

All in all I feel like the team is well positioned to improve from within. Kimbrel, Kelly, Edro, Price, Chris Young should all start providing more value then they have been the last few weeks and the only potential move I would be pursuing if I was in DDs shoes based on the rumored market prices, is a bullpen rental similar to the Ziggy deal he already made. Which, by the way, looks even better when you see what the Cubs paid for Chapman
 

snowmanny

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It's not doom and gloom. It's just that while they are good enough to have a shot at the playoffs as is, one more good player isn't going to make them all that more likely to win them the division, or even necessarily one of the coin-flip wild-card spots. Another go for it now trade would be pretty disappointing to me.
 

NDame616

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I don't think we should sell the farm for a major piece because I think, as constituted, this team is poised for a playoff berth and that's all you need. The teams biggest problem is our pitching, and our rotation would be exponentially better if we picked an ace....or if our current "ace" actually reverted back to what he's been the past decade. Also, most of our bullpen issues may be resolved soon when our closer comes back in a week or so. That moves Kimbrel back to the 9th, Ziggy and Taz as set up guys and go from there.

A Price (pitching as he has his entire career), Porcello, Wright and Pomeranz rotation is formidable in the playoffs, and bullpens are always such a crapshoot that I don't want us to touch anyone on the ML roster, Super Nintento or Moncada. It seems like the asking price is going to be insane for anyone that's decent, and we are too close to a huge, prolonged period of success that I don't want us spending major capital on a rental
 

Schnerres

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A Price (pitching as he has his entire career), Porcello, Wright and Pomeranz rotation is formidable in the playoffs,
Will Pomeranz even be able to pitch in the playoffs due to a possible innings pitched-limit? Big question mark in my opinion. Yes, Rodriguez has shown improvement, but no true reliability or consistency.
 

timlinin8th

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It's not doom and gloom. It's just that while they are good enough to have a shot at the playoffs as is, one more good player isn't going to make them all that more likely to win them the division, or even necessarily one of the coin-flip wild-card spots. Another go for it now trade would be pretty disappointing to me.
How does the calculus change on a trade if it is for Chris Sale, who isn't merely a rental but would be under club control and reasonably priced for three more seasons?

I'm with you guys in that I don't really want a rental, but if you can make the trade for Sale without needing to include both Moncada and Benintendi, I do it. This club looks like it has a multi year window right now and I want to force that thing wide open.
 

BestGameEvah

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Out of curiosity, where is Moncada's final resting position. I've read he'll probably outgrow 2B (which is blocked, anyway) - which leaves 3B, OF or 1B. Any consensus? 3B seems ideal but he hasn't played there (and does he have the arm).
He started taking balls at 3rd this week!