Poll: O Romeo, Romeo…You and Me Babe, How ‘Bout It?

What is Romeo Langford's most likely career outcome?


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    153

HomeRunBaker

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Are you more optimistic now on Romeo than the day he was drafted?

Those physical skills existed then and he hadn't yet shown he would be horrible on offense for the next 2 years. Generally we agree that "everything matters", that's why I think it's reasonable to dock Romeo a bit since then.

I suppose people think his physical tools are much better than advertised, and that positive outweighs the terrible performance negative to date?
I think injuries have curtailed his development for sure. I was lukewarm on the Romeo pick and like it a lot more today after seeing his growth at the end of this season into a key piece without yet having a normal summer or preseason camp.

I like the future prime Trevor Ariza comp of a starter/key rotation guy on winning teams. He’s def not a “numbers guy” so team fit will be key for him much like it was with Ariza. That’s a good score with a 14th pick.
 

radsoxfan

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Are we seeing the same pole? There are more people who think he won't get a 2nd contract than think he'll be an NBA starter.

I guess those people would think he's better than the 14th pick though so fair enough.

I'm not talking about the poll in general, just the vocal minority that has his median projection that high.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I think injuries have curtailed his development for sure. I was lukewarm on the Romeo pick and like it a lot more today after seeing his growth at the end of this season into a key piece without yet having a normal summer or preseason camp.

I like the future prime Trevor Ariza comp of a starter/key rotation guy on winning teams. He’s def not a “numbers guy” so team fit will be key for him much like it was with Ariza. That’s a good score with a 14th pick.
Ariza wasn't that guy until his 2nd contract. That's what I fear about Romeo. Even if he ends up being better than I expect, it will probably be with some other team.
 

Eddie Jurak

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It’s not that Pritchard will be more valuable than Romeo in two years. It’s that he’ll be cheaper, and a better fit for the roster assuming Nesmith also develops into a rotational piece in the next two years (which, of course, is not a given).

I do think Pritchard is the more valuable player now, but this whole conversation presupposes some improvement in Romeo’s shooting over the next two years, which I think is likely.
Pritchard will probably always have questions about his size and defense. He came in older and more experienced than RL and AN and was obviously more NBA-ready. But I think Romeo, who is not a PG, has a better chance of being a starting NBA PG than does Pritchard. If a lot of the Celtics' offense runs through Tatum, anyway, then improving to the level where he could start at PG for the C's is a possibility for Romeo. More likely to me than Pritchard showing that he can defend enough to be an NBA starter.

AN is a different kind of case. I see him as more likely to be traded than Romeo because he is closer to masetering a valuable NBA skill - spot up shooter - but also offers the potential to be more than a 3&D guy. Team looking for a spot up shooter will soon be interested in Nesmith, Romeo is more of a project even though he has an additional year, such as it was, in the league.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Ariza wasn't that guy until his 2nd contract. That's what I fear about Romeo. Even if he ends up being better than I expect, it will probably be with some other team.
Ariza’s rookie contract was spent on lottery teams in NY and Orlando. His skill set was an awful fit there. If we were a 20-win team with little hope then I’d feel similar but he’s going to be a key part of next years rotation out of the gate unless he’s part of a larger trade if Brad really shakes things up.
 

Cellar-Door

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Pritchard will probably always have questions about his size and defense. He came in older and more experienced than RL and AN and was obviously more NBA-ready. But I think Romeo, who is not a PG, has a better chance of being a starting NBA PG than does Pritchard. If a lot of the Celtics' offense runs through Tatum, anyway, then improving to the level where he could start at PG for the C's is a possibility for Romeo. More likely to me than Pritchard showing that he can defend enough to be an NBA starter.

AN is a different kind of case. I see him as more likely to be traded than Romeo because he is closer to masetering a valuable NBA skill - spot up shooter - but also offers the potential to be more than a 3&D guy. Team looking for a spot up shooter will soon be interested in Nesmith, Romeo is more of a project even though he has an additional year, such as it was, in the league.
Yeah Pritchard is basically the definition of a guy you're happy you drafted late 1st, but move on from if he asks for any real money. Good shooter, but lacking the physical tools and skillset at the moment to be more than that. Those guys are always kicking around for 4-7M tops, and most have a bit more size and positional flexibility than PP.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Yeah Pritchard is basically the definition of a guy you're happy you drafted late 1st, but move on from if he asks for any real money. Good shooter, but lacking the physical tools and skillset at the moment to be more than that. Those guys are always kicking around for 4-7M tops, and most have a bit more size and positional flexibility than PP.
As someone who is generally optimistic about prospects, I will say that PP might end up doing better than I've said. First year PGs are almost always bad even when they are good. Is he a highly-skilled basketball genius who can exceed his physical potential? Maybe, but I'd bet against it.
 

Jimbodandy

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The thing is, you can never really be a bad fit as a 6-4 guy with defense and infinite arms who projects to add ball-handling. Too many different lineups you can play in and positions you can play. PP has a higher bar to hit, because he only plays one position, and can't yet defend well or generate his own shot, so he's a spot-up shooter and "bring it up the floor and pass" guy.

I'm not even *that* low on PP; I just think it's weird to talk about Romeo not being a fit relative to him.
Fwiw, I think that a lot of the differences in wishcasting among our prospects stems from differences in legacy and modern ideas of position. If you think more old school, you see PP as a classic style 1 and infer the skills that come with that (many of which he has). And you'll then see RL as a classic style 2, except that means that he's a shooting guard that doesn't shoot well.
 
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Marbleheader

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I thought Danny mismanaged the Sacramento and Memphis picks. The team should have been looking to acquire established players with those assets to add to Brown and Tatum and instead they gambled on lottery luck and lost badly on both.
 

BigSoxFan

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I thought Danny mismanaged the Sacramento and Memphis picks. The team should have been looking to acquire established players with those assets to add to Brown and Tatum and instead they gambled on lottery luck and lost badly on both.
If this teams fails to get over the hump with the Jay's, I'll always wonder about the type of deals Danny turned down for those. It's possible that they weren't as valuable on the open market as we thought given the range of outcomes, which we sadly learned turned to be pretty mediocre.

In fairness to Ainge, at one point he had Horford, Hayward, and Kyrie along with the Jay's so he probably thought it made sense to swing for the fences with those picks. That Hayward injury really was an inflection point for this franchise. It effectively ended the Horford/Hayward/Kyrie era but likely ushered in the Jay Era. I do think that getting thrown to the wolves was very beneficial to both players but it certainly could have gone more sideways.

The real unfortunate part was Kyrie. If he had his head on straight, you have your 3 stars and are golden. It really can't be overstated just how much Kyrie Irving screwed this franchise. His acquisition cost us SGA, Sexton, Porter Jr., Bridges, he went to a direct competitor that basically initiated a super team that is blocking us, and he indirectly lead to the horrendous Kemba Walker contract.

He really did a number on us.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I thought Danny mismanaged the Sacramento and Memphis picks. The team should have been looking to acquire established players with those assets to add to Brown and Tatum and instead they gambled on lottery luck and lost badly on both.
It's possible. It's also possible it starts paying off in a year or two. I think one of Nesmith or Langford works out, I'm leaning on Nesmith.

There's also cap considerations. Any player worth acquiring for the 14th pick is probably getting paid quite a bit more than the 14th pick.
 

tbrown_01923

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It's possible. It's also possible it starts paying off in a year or two. I think one of Nesmith or Langford works out, I'm leaning on Nesmith.

There's also cap considerations. Any player worth acquiring for the 14th pick is probably getting paid quite a bit more than the 14th pick.
I would have wanted to be on record as both of them working out - in that within 2 yrs they both are getting "top 8" minutes. GIve ainge/stevens who know now... I always thoguht romeo could score some, he is crafty around the basket and i agree learning to shoot at a okay-enough level should be achievable. I think nesmith is a gunner waiting for things to slow down, I would love to see him running some rip hamilton type sets - particualrly with the jays out. Force his man to chase him around a thousand screens and curls.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I would have wanted to be on record as both of them working out - in that within 2 yrs they both are getting "top 8" minutes. GIve ainge/stevens who know now... I always thoguht romeo could score some, he is crafty around the basket and i agree learning to shoot at a okay-enough level should be achievable. I think nesmith is a gunner waiting for things to slow down, I would love to see him running some rip hamilton type sets - particualrly with the jays out. Force his man to chase him around a thousand screens and curls.
I meant work out in the sense that one develops into a 30 minute rotational player/starter. They both ended the season that way though. Langford was 5th and Nesmith was 7th in playoff minutes. A lot of that was also due to injury and the fact the C's had very little depth outside the top 7. I think both will probably be in the top 8 in minutes played if they stay healthy next season.

I think Langford is a defensive pest for 10-15 minutes a game next year. Maybe he develops some type of offensive game and surprises me. If he does, I'll have to completely change my opinion about him... again.

I think Nesmith will play closer to 20-25, play passable defense and provide plus shooting. Basically, he'll be an ok 3 & D player in year 2, averaging something like 12 points, 6 points 1.5 assists, 1.0 steal a game on .450/.400/.800 shooting. I'm not sure he'll ever be part of a big 3, but I think he's going to be one of the "other starters" in the NBA for awhile starting as soon as year 3.
 

tbrown_01923

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I meant work out in the sense that one develops into a 30 minute rotational player/starter. They both ended the season that way though. Langford was 5th and Nesmith was 7th in playoff minutes. A lot of that was also due to injury and the fact the C's had very little depth outside the top 7. I think both will probably be in the top 8 in minutes played if they stay healthy next season.
Fair - I think they both end up in the 20 minute a night range (on a roster without injuries) and agree neither end up part of any big-3. but thats a pretty good turnout for mid first round pick.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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If you look at Romeo's 1st 2 seasons as more like 1/2 a season or 1 season (which is actually a fair argument), you will probably be a lot higher on Romeo. If you think he should have improved year over year pretty much regardless and view his career as 2 seasons (which is actually a fair argument), you are much lower on Romeo.
One other thing that people may not be taking into consideration is that Romeo hasn't had an injury-free offseason to work on his game until this one. Year 1 he was recovering from his thumb injury well into August (and missed summer league). Last year was the wrist.

I will be super interested to see how he comes back next year.

It’s not that Pritchard will be more valuable than Romeo in two years. It’s that he’ll be cheaper, and a better fit for the roster assuming Nesmith also develops into a rotational piece in the next two years (which, of course, is not a given).

I do think Pritchard is the more valuable player now, but this whole conversation presupposes some improvement in Romeo’s shooting over the next two years, which I think is likely.
It's certainly possible that Romeo prices himself out of BOS. But in 2 years if DA can re-sign him to Smart-like money he'll have to do it because as many have said, the Cs have very limited number of ways to improve their roster without needing to get super lucky.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Fair - I think they both end up in the 20 minute a night range (on a roster without injuries) and agree neither end up part of any big-3. but thats a pretty good turnout for mid first round pick.
It is a pretty good turnout for a mid first round pick. I just have a habit of viewing players on their rookie deals as jags who are going to be replaced by the next group of players on rookie deals.

I usually judge if a pick panned out for the C's if the player re upped with them after their rookie deal rather than in context to the actual draft.

The fact Terry Rozier blossomed with Charlotte doesn't really help the C's any. KO/Sully helped a little. Tatum/Brown/Smart/Bradley, guys you actually keep around.
 

Cesar Crespo

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It's certainly possible that Romeo prices himself out of BOS. But in 2 years if DA can re-sign him to Smart-like money he'll have to do it because as many have said, the Cs have very limited number of ways to improve their roster without needing to get super lucky.
I could see a situation where he's re-signed on the cheap because he doesn't develop much of an offensive game. That would offer a lot of upside to a contract.

That's really something I didn't think about. If Romeo Langford doesn't really improve his offensive game much in the next 2 years... he'll basically have no market. He will come incredibly cheap. I assumed they wouldn't re-sign Langford because he wouldn't be worth what some other team was offering, I'm just not sure there will be that many other teams if there's no offense.
 

lovegtm

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I could see a situation where he's re-signed on the cheap because he doesn't develop much of an offensive game. That would offer a lot of upside to a contract.

That's really something I didn't think about. If Romeo Langford doesn't really improve his offensive game much in the next 2 years... he'll basically have no market. He will come incredibly cheap. I assumed they wouldn't re-sign Langford because he wouldn't be worth what some other team was offering, I'm just not sure there will be that many other teams if there's no offense.
Yeah, there's a continuum between "really bad at O" and "great", and if he's closer to the left side of that, it's hard for another team to throw the big offer in RFA that doesn't get matched, which lowers the final number a lot.

We saw exactly this happen with Marcus Smart.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I could see a situation where he's re-signed on the cheap because he doesn't develop much of an offensive game. That would offer a lot of upside to a contract.

That's really something I didn't think about. If Romeo Langford doesn't really improve his offensive game much in the next 2 years... he'll basically have no market. He will come incredibly cheap. I assumed they wouldn't re-sign Langford because he wouldn't be worth what some other team was offering, I'm just not sure there will be that many other teams if there's no offense.
If RL's offensive game doesn't improve, he's basically Semi. The Cs re-signed Semi; they'll likely re-sign RL.

However, I'll note that the only realistic way I see this happening is if RL is continually injured.
 

lovegtm

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If RL's offensive game doesn't improve, he's basically Semi. The Cs re-signed Semi; they'll likely re-sign RL.

However, I'll note that the only realistic way I see this happening is if RL is continually injured.
Not really--Semi isn't remotely the defensive player that Romeo is, due to his complete inability to contest. I know people like to use Semi as the comp for what it looks like to be all D and no O, but he's just not that great at the D part outside of a few matchups.
 

Jimbodandy

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Not really--Semi isn't remotely the defensive player that Romeo is, due to his complete inability to contest. I know people like to use Semi as the comp for what it looks like to be all D and no O, but he's just not that great at the D part outside of a few matchups.
Wildly different guys on D, yeah. Semi can cover Giannis and sometimes Simmons, because he can stay in front of them a bit but they can't shoot over him. It's damn limiting. Romeo was covering Durant and Harden and bothering the latter a lot, as much as most guys do. Much more valuable.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Sacramento/Memphis picks are home run swings I would take 10 out of 10 times. Both teams were shit and picked 2nd the year before. Sacramento had a fluke season where they were barely better than the 5-8 or so teams behind them, and Memphis lucked into Ja and lucked into their tough end-of-season schedule being wiped out by the pandemic.

It's also not as simple as just trading the picks for vets—they haven't really had mid-range salaries that would be good for salary matching purposes without hurting the roster. Smart and Thompson's contracts are the only good salary ballast contracts they have had in a while.

And the team was just never in position to be trading 1sts for like Kyle Korver (or Bertans last year). If Hayward never gets hurt and the Kyrie situation plays out differently, then maybe you take some swings on bad value trades that incrementally increase your chances of winning it all. In hindsight maybe last year would have been a year to do it, but again they didn't really have the salaries to make this happen in a satisfactory way.

All that aside, I like what both players have shown. I am certainly more confident about Nesmith moving forward than I was about, say, Rozier after year 1. And year 2 Rozier was no great shakes either—like Romeo he had shown some things in short spurts but I don't remember anything as positive as the defensive chops Romeo has displayed while never having the benefit of a full NBA offseason yet.
 

reggiecleveland

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Not really--Semi isn't remotely the defensive player that Romeo is, due to his complete inability to contest. I know people like to use Semi as the comp for what it looks like to be all D and no O, but he's just not that great at the D part outside of a few matchups.
Romeo is ballplayer. I love physical hard nosed guys like Semi, but this year when people went for the shot fake and actually was able to put the ball on the floor and drive we were all so happy for him. I am not pumped up about Romeo, but he better than Semi right now.
 

lovegtm

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I guess we are. His metrics on D are nothing special and on offense they are abysmal. I admit he has some tools and don't discount he could be good to very good on D, but the Romeo love here is a little odd to me based on what we have seen.

His career to date has not been good, he supposedly has very little value around the league, and almost surely less value than he did on draft night. His 3rd year will be huge, we can all agree there. I'm hopeful but can't say I'm particularly optimistic about it.
I understand where you're coming from, and I agree that if you go by metrics you will be down on him. However, that's true for so many young players who end up decent to good that I don't put tons of stock in it--young players rarely contribute to winning, and a lot of the times the ones who do have more limited upside.

Ultimately there's a significant difference of opinion here, and I just wanted to get mine down with the supporting reasons so that people can't play "never coulda seen that coming" when RL develops. I did a similar thing with Nesmith earlier in the season, when I thought his improvement trajectory was encouraging in spite of his general lostness.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Not really--Semi isn't remotely the defensive player that Romeo is, due to his complete inability to contest. I know people like to use Semi as the comp for what it looks like to be all D and no O, but he's just not that great at the D part outside of a few matchups.
Understand your point and just to be clear, I was talking about his market value not his ability as a player. The hypo was that RL's offense doesn't get any better in the next two years and what his next contract might look like.

The thing is that it's hard to see how RL's offense doesn't get better. Just watching to last two games - we know he can finish inside; we've seen him make the correct pass when the ball is in his hands; and his shot certainly looks better when he squares up and shoot it with confidence. There's no way his USG% stays as low as it has up to now just the way the Cs are built. I think it's way more likely RL prices himself out of BOS than RL's signing a second contract on the cheap but I suppose anything is possible.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The thing is that it's hard to see how RL's offense doesn't get better. Just watching to last two games - we know he can finish inside; we've seen him make the correct pass when the ball is in his hands; and his shot certainly looks better when he squares up and shoot it with confidence. There's no way his USG% stays as low as it has up to now just the way the Cs are built. I think it's way more likely RL prices himself out of BOS than RL's signing a second contract on the cheap but I suppose anything is possible.
I agree with the bolded. Just in the Brooklyn series alone, he stepped up his offensive performance compared to his preior NBA experience. Health, practice time, real offseason, opportunity, and confidence are all things that have been lacking thus far in his career. In the Brooklyn series he had a little more of most of them and he played better.