Protecting the Shields -- The Nick Cafardo Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

GreenMonster49

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
644
Then there's this
It’s about the time of the season to start playing the playoff roster game.

This roster shouldn’t be too hard to figure, but there are a couple of areas where the Red Sox brass will have to do some thinking.

We can assume John McDonald will be the backup infielder. Mike Carp and Daniel Nava are the backup outfielders/1B and David Ross is the backup catcher.

Now it gets tricky. In a five-game divisional series with two off-days, all you need is four starting pitchers. I presume they will be Jon Lester, John Lackey, Jake Peavy, and Clay Buchholz. It would also be logical to go with 11 pitchers total, which leaves seven bullpen slots. Felix Doubront and Ryan Dempster, who could be the odd men out of the rotation, would assume two bullpen roles. Then you have Koji Uehara, Junichi Tazawa, Craig Breslow, Brandon Workman, and Matt Thornton.

That leaves us one player short of 25. That one player could be an additional positional player like Xander Bogaerts.
So, the first guy on the playoff bench will be the backup infielder with a -6 OPS this season, who has played all of 3 innings in a blowout win, but the infielder who has merely started 5 games out of the last 16 games is competing for the last spot on the bench.

It's bad enough that Nick is this bad of a baseball analyst, but take heart. If the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics is true, then there may be at least one universe where Nick has Ben Cherington's job.

(Edit: spelling)
 

tdeplonty

New Member
Jun 13, 2009
3
GreenMonster49 said:
If the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics is true, then there maybe at least one universe whre Nick had Ben Cherington's job.
 
Hilarious and horrifying. Thank you!
 

Humphrey

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2010
3,163
I can't imagine any justification for having Thornton on the roster, espcially if Doubront is in the pen.
 
Plus, the assumption Buch will just assume a spot in the rotation is a big stretch.   If that made Dubront a starter again, then you go w/'Britton or Morales.   Thornton is terrible.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,243
It's bad enough that Nick is this bad of a baseball analyst, but take heart. If the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics is true, then there may be at least one universe where Nick has Ben Cherington's job.
 
 
It's like listening to William Shatner speak
 
 
 
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,243
Yes, I was serious about eliminating the intentional walk. I couldn’t care less about the strategy. You’re blatantly telling the pitcher to throw four bad pitches. And no, it’s not like a sacrifice bunt. A sac bunt is advancing a runner, and a player is in motion, trying to beat a throw.
 
 
:smithicide:
 

JGray38

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2003
3,044
Rockport, MA
 
Ex-manager Bobby Valentine said he was against Bard being a starter, but took orders from the front office. Valentine said that only team psychologist Bob Tewksbury and bullpen coach Gary Tuck were allowed to work with Bard during his difficulties.
 
Never knew that it was Bobby Valentine who fired Mets clubhouse and reputed steroid distributor Kirk Radomski, whose testimony was key in the Mitchell Report.
 
Full-on Bobby V apologist mode today!
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
26,993
Newton
Good to see he's giving old friend Bobby V some work:

The Sox believed they were close to getting Bard straightened out after the experiment of him as a starter was scrapped. Ex-manager Bobby Valentine said he was against Bard being a starter, but took orders from the front office. Valentine said that only team psychologist Bob Tewksbury and bullpen coach Gary Tuck were allowed to work with Bard during his difficulties.

“He’s a terrific young man and I hope he straightens it out,” said Valentine, now the athletic director at Sacred Heart University in Connecticut. “He is a terrific setup man. I know when he got back to being a reliever he looked me in the eye and rather matter-of-factly told me this is what he was meant to do. And I couldn’t agree more.”

...

5. Never knew that it was Bobby Valentine who fired Mets clubhouse and reputed steroid distributor Kirk Radomski, whose testimony was key in the Mitchell Report.


http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/09/07/major-league-teams-have-decisions-make-excess-players/AzuT5UD9PqCbJF6cBLuGPK/story.html
 

Humphrey

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2010
3,163
He still is carrying the Yankees water in terms of making the playoffs-   even though he thinks they are old with a weak farm system.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2001
24,548
Humphrey said:
He still is carrying the Yankees water in terms of making the playoffs-   even though he thinks they are old with a weak farm system.
 
That was from the Bogaerts article, right? I was actually interested in reading that piece this morning but the first five full paragraphs were such a Yankee hand job that I stopped. I don't give a shit about the Yankees and their shitty farm teams, I don't care about how the Yankees this year; they're just another team. Why would he lead with crap about the Yankees when the focus of his article was about Bogaerts. 
 
You would think that an editor would talk to him about this, right? It's a full on obsession right now and it sucks. The Yankees are 11 behind the Red Sox right now and are 2.5  out of the wildcard with a really bad team full of AAAA guys. Why are they a story? 
 

Humphrey

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2010
3,163
Another big defeat for the "Surging Yankees" (copyright Nick Cafardo).
 
Not a big Eddie Andelman fan, but I'm looking forward to the Elimination Pahty!
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,243
Carp is in a tough spot because he wants to be good at his job, but not so good that he never gets a chance to be a starting player.
 
 
Has this EVER happened in MLB to a guy in his prime?
"Sorry, big guy, BECAUSE you're so good at hitting once every 10 days or so, we're not going to let you play more than that."
 
EVERY really good pinch-hitter, from Jerry Lynch (terrible OF), to Smoky Burgess (old & fat), to Manny Mota (old) and late-career Rusty Staub (old and fat) had some sort of defect in his game that made him an ideal PH.
 
It may turn out that Carp's defense is so Dunn-like he can only be a DH. Or it may turn out that he can't hit LHPs over the long haul well enough to be a full time DH.  But it will NOT turn out that a major league baseball team with its head not up its ass will say, "Mike, you're such a fucking good pinch-hitter that we're not going to risk losing those 20 annual PAs by putting you in the lineup and making you unavailable to pinch-hit."
 
Or is he suggesting that Carp will go into some sort of intentional PH funk to avoid getting typecast?
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
My immediate thought was Dave Hansen for the Dodgers - dude hit between 7 and 27 homeruns off the bench for that team one season iirc.
 
I will admit that my memories of him may well be clouded by Ken Griffey Jr Baseball but I've been calling Mike Carp Dave Hansen all season and my wife thinks it's hilarious.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
(she doesn't)
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,243
By the end of Thursday’s game, Red Sox fans were already lamenting the loss and why two rookies were pitching in relief. Tazawa and Uehara can’t pitch every day. They will burn out and then won’t be good for the playoffs. These are the late stages of the season. There’s a lot of wear and tear on these guys.
 
 
I'm pretty sure Cafardo can't find a Sox fan over the age of 12 "lamenting" anything about relief pitcher usage or anything else in last night's game. Myers, who may turn out to be a star, blooped a slider onto the chalk off DLR, and Middlebrooks lined one into Longoria's glove.  So it goes.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2001
24,548
Who is asking that question about Tazawa and Uehara? I think that the majority of Sox fans understand this and realize exactly where Boston is in terms of the division race.
 
It's a goofy strawman that Cafardo created because he's a rotten writer.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,243
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
Who is asking that question about Tazawa and Uehara? I think that the majority of Sox fans understand this and realize exactly where Boston is in terms of the division race.
 
It's a goofy strawman that Cafardo created because he's a rotten writer.
 
One day its unnamed "scouts." The next day its unnamed "baseball executives." Today its "fans."  I wonder what happened to all those "sports medical people" who thought Buchholz's rehab plan was "silly"?
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2001
24,548
I guess that Cafardo could point to "Sox fans" on Twitter, but is that the best place to grab information and build a story around?
 
Why does Cafardo even need that first sentence? Does it carry that much more weight when "Sox fans" are clammoring for Uehara and Tazawa? Just in case Nick is reading, the answer to that last quesiton is, no.
 
As much as I dislike Cafardo's prose, some blame has to go to his editors. I assume someone reads this crap before it hits the streets, don't they think that they ought to clean it up a little bit?
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,243
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
 
As much as I dislike Cafardo's prose, some blame has to go to his editors. I assume someone reads this crap before it hits the streets, don't they think that they ought to clean it up a little bit?
 Perhaps Mr. Finn could shed some light in a very general sort of way.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,022
Oregon
joe dokes said:
 
I'm pretty sure Cafardo can't find a Sox fan over the age of 12 "lamenting" anything about relief pitcher usage or anything else in last night's game.
 
He can if he looks in the gamethread
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,243
The A’s can certainly be perceived as a team that flies under the radar, for a few reasons. You always question how much pressure there is there to win with a fan base that doesn’t show up for games at perhaps the worst venue in baseball. The A’s are certainly not the Giants in terms of fan support in that market. They have also been embroiled, it seems forever, in a quest to get a new stadium in San Jose, with many legal roadblocks
 
You do? I don't.
 
And the ONE guy you quoted for this nugget of wisdom doesn't either:
“I played in Tampa and Oakland,” Gomes said. “I’ll tell you this, every player is different, but there are players who really care about winning and losing, so while there may not be the attention that there is in Boston, each player, at least my teammates, felt that urgency to win every day.
 
 
(The passive-voiced first sentence; the second person singular second sentence. It's a clinic on how not to write AND not to think).
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2001
24,548
I thought when the A's fans have a team to root for they are among the most boisterous crowds in the majors.

And it's rich that the guy who was ripping Sox fans two weeks ago for not going to Fenway now says they're the toughest fans around.

They Boston fans are either fair weather or diehards. Stick with a straw man for more than two weeks, please.
 

Spacemans Bong

chapeau rose
SoSH Member
I'd harbor an educated guess that the average A's fan is probably more passionate than the average Red Sox fan. It's just there's probably 10, maybe 20 times as many Red Sox fans.
 
There's also a big difference in "expectations of winning" when you are never above 25th or so in payroll, and when you are never out of the top five in payroll. And when you pay $20 to get in the park, and when you pay $60 to get in the park. Or when you have two other championship-caliber teams (and another team that was playoff-caliber before this offseason) in the area versus the Warriors and Raiders.
 

geoflin

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 26, 2004
709
Melrose MA
 
 
 Reddick, who has been beset with injuries and a season-long slump, has begun to resemble last season’s version (32 homers).
 
Over the past 3 weeks, not including today, when not on the DL, Reddick is 2 for 10 with 1 HR and 3 RBI. That wasn't too hard for me to look up.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 26, 2006
14,181
Beset with a season-long slump? Doesn't that just mean you're not good? 
 
Rey Ordonez, beset with a career-long slump...
 
Also, I wonder if it was Cafardo who secretly wrote this headline:
 
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
26,993
Newton
Barf:

1. Andy Pettitte is a Hall of Famer. Period. He has 255 victories, a record 19 postseason wins, and has pitched big games in a big-time setting. We forgive him for dabbling in human growth hormone. He had the class to admit it.


"Dabbling" my ass.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,100
His suggestion of a neutral site World Series was comical.  Seems as if he's become Scott Boras' mouthpiece on the subject.  Yeah, Nick, let's make Boras' life better at the expense of the fans; makes sense to me.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 26, 2006
14,181
I won't go so far as to call Pettitte "mediocre" in the playoffs, but he was hardly a worldbeater. He just got a shitload of starts. 
 
He was 19-11 (in 44 starts), with a 3.81 ERA, a 1.305 WHIP, more hits than innings pitched, 6 K/9, and 1 HR/9. That's above average for a regular season starter nowadays, but hardly the stuff of playoff legend. 
 
And he got worse as the playoffs went on. In the Series, he was 5-4 in 13 games, with a 4.06 ERA and a 1.403 WHIP. Wow. Big-game pitcher right there...
 
No way in hell is Andy Pettitte a Hall of Famer. No way. He was durable, but he led the league in wins once and never in anything else significant and his lifetime ERA+ is 117. He had nine separate full years with an ERA over 4. Blech. 
 
Edit: Just for comparison, look at Schilling: ERA+ of 127, only three full seasons over 4, led the league in WHIP twice, strikeouts twice, complete games four times, etc.
 
In the playoffs, Schill was 11-2, with a 2.23 ERA and a .968 ERA. In the Series? 4-1, with a 2.06 and a .896 WHIP. That's what a big-game pitcher looks like. 
 
And most people consider Schilling pretty borderline. 
 

Humphrey

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2010
3,163
When I saw this I googled the issue....could only find an article on Boras and World Series that was dated 2009 and and one from 2007.   In other words, old news that Nick is digging up again.   No quotes from any owner, who are the ones that would make such a change.   So, I'm skeptical that this "story" has any legs at all.
 
I also liked how Boras (disguised thinly as Nick) threw Texas into the mix for Ells services going forward.
 

URI

stands for life, liberty and the uturian way of li
Moderator
SoSH Member
Aug 18, 2001
10,329
Humphrey said:
When I saw this I googled the issue....could only find an article on Boras and World Series that was dated 2009 and and one from 2007.   In other words, old news that Nick is digging up again.   No quotes from any owner, who are the ones that would make such a change.   So, I'm skeptical that this "story" has any legs at all.
 
I also liked how Boras (disguised thinly as Nick) threw Texas into the mix for Ells services going forward.
 
Whitey Herzog brought up the idea in 1998.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,100
URI said:
 
Whitey Herzog brought up the idea in 1998.
Good for him. Then Herzog, Boring Ass, and Cafardo can go to Florida, buy the biggest, highest resolution TV on the market, and watch it on TV in a neutral location.
 

Corsi

isn't shy about blowing his wad early
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 3, 2010
12,955
Boston, MA
Van Everyman said:
Barf:



"Dabbling" my ass.
 
Wait.  If you cheat and later admit it, it's classy?  What the fuck is wrong with this guy?
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

Throw Momma From the Train
Moderator
SoSH Member
May 20, 2003
35,734
Deep inside Muppet Labs
joyofsox said:
Some other pitchers with a 117 ERA+: Gene Garber, Dan Plesac, Kerry Wood, Tug McGraw, Gaylord Perry, and Anibal Sanchez.
 
Pettite is essentially Chuck Finley. Would anyone EVER put Chuck Finley in the Hall of Fame? Well, maybe if one existed for Psycho Ex-Wives.
 
Cafardo's a goddamn doorknob.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2001
24,548
Wait.  If you cheat and later admit it, it's classy?  What the fuck is wrong with this guy?
 
 
And BTW, it's not as if Pettitte admitted cheating by himself, his conscious being too much to bear, he was outed by his best pal, Roger Clemens IIRC.
 
This is just another example of Cafardo taking a hugely complicated story like PEDs and incorrectly breaking it down based on some weird sense of morality that only he can see. And BTW, he never explains why it's okay for Pettitte to cheat but not Manny or the other players who gummed up the league. He's a grown man that is fairly successful in his field has a bit of influence over how people get their information about baseball yet has the rationalization (and quite frankly, the writing) skills of a very small child.
 
He must work for scale.
 

MakeMineMoxie

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
722
The floor of Punter's Pub
MyDaughterLovesTomGordon said:
I won't go so far as to call Pettitte "mediocre" in the playoffs, but he was hardly a worldbeater. He just got a shitload of starts. 
 
He was 19-11 (in 44 starts), with a 3.81 ERA, a 1.305 WHIP, more hits than innings pitched, 6 K/9, and 1 HR/9. That's above average for a regular season starter nowadays, but hardly the stuff of playoff legend. 
 
And he got worse as the playoffs went on. In the Series, he was 5-4 in 13 games, with a 4.06 ERA and a 1.403 WHIP. Wow. Big-game pitcher right there...
 
No way in hell is Andy Pettitte a Hall of Famer. No way. He was durable, but he led the league in wins once and never in anything else significant and his lifetime ERA+ is 117. He had nine separate full years with an ERA over 4. Blech. 
 
Edit: Just for comparison, look at Schilling: ERA+ of 127, only three full seasons over 4, led the league in WHIP twice, strikeouts twice, complete games four times, etc.
 
In the playoffs, Schill was 11-2, with a 2.23 ERA and a .968 ERA. In the Series? 4-1, with a 2.06 and a .896 WHIP. That's what a big-game pitcher looks like. 
 
And most people consider Schilling pretty borderline. 
This post should be required reading for every HoF voter and most broadcasters.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,243

cromulence

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2009
6,707
Pettitte's World Series numbers are extremely skewed by his Game 6 disaster in 2001. Yes, they should count too, but he was apparently tipping his pitches and it's one (very bad) outlier. Despite my hardcore manlove for Andy Pettitte, I don't think he's a Hall of Famer, but not because of his World Series numbers.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 26, 2006
14,181
cromulence said:
Pettitte's World Series numbers are extremely skewed by his Game 6 disaster in 2001. Yes, they should count too, but he was apparently tipping his pitches and it's one (very bad) outlier. Despite my hardcore manlove for Andy Pettitte, I don't think he's a Hall of Famer, but not because of his World Series numbers.
 
Huh. I thought they were skewed by him getting shellacked for 5 runs and 10 hits in 3.2 innings in the 1999 series against the Braves. 
 
Wait. Or were they skewed by the 1996 Series where he gave up 7 runs in 10.2 innings against the Braves?
 
Or was it the 2000 Series against the Mets where he was extremely lucky to only give up 3 ER (5 actual runs) in 13.2 innings after giving up 16 hits and 4 walks (20 baserunners!)?
 
I can't tell which of his shit-sandwich Series performances skews his numbers! Goshdarnit. 
 
Other than those, he was wicked awesome in the Series, it's true. 
 
Edit: Sorry, that was maybe more sarcastic than you deserved - you did admit his Series numbers were weak overall...
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,243
Credit where credit is due dept :
 
Ortiz’s homer, a three-run shot in the Sox’ 12-3 win over the Orioles, tied him with, coincidentally, Cal Ripken Jr. at 431 (good for 45th on the all-time list).
 
 
99% of commentators, written and broadcast, would have said "ironically." (deep down, I suspect the credit belongs to an editor, but I can't prove it . . .)
 

JGray38

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2003
3,044
Rockport, MA
OK, I inderstand the notion that MVP should be from a winning team. But the Cy Young and ROY award votes should factor in team success now too?
 

timlinin8th

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 6, 2009
1,521
SydneySox said:
Wait, he's getting credit for not fucking up now?
Easier to tackle the exceptions rather than the everyday occurences?
JGray38 said:
But the Cy Young and ROY award votes should factor in team success now too?
Especially with the ROY award where odds are the best rookies play on bad teams (given that whole draft process and minor league callup thingie)
 

Yelling At Clouds

Post-darwinian
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
3,405
Dick Pole Upside said:
Joe Morgan on the short list of AA MLB Comissioner candidates. Hopeless.
 
To be fair, it sounds like that was a name thrown out by a source looking to get Morgan's name out there. Possibly Morgan himself.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,022
Oregon
Danny_Darwin said:
 
To be fair, it sounds like that was a name thrown out by a source looking to get Morgan's name out there. Possibly Morgan himself.
 
Mickey Rooney Rule
 
However, just because Morgan isn't stats guy doesn't mean that he isn't a good politician who has built relationships with ownerships and players across the game
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
It doesn't matter if Joe Morgan is not a 'stats' guy, what sets Joe Morgan apart is that he is a 'Moneyball' opponent, with moneyball in this context being all the newfangled bullshit that he believes is taking away the soul of the game, despite him very publically never having read it.
 
There are plenty of people who don't like getting into metrics. Joe Morgan's a dickhead because he proudly complains about things from ignorance. Basically, he's dumb.
 
He's a player's friend but someone like him running the org?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.