Protecting the Shields -- The Nick Cafardo Thread

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johnmd20

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QUOTE (E5 Yaz @ May 10 2010, 02:37 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2958309
This is not written in defense of Cafardo, (even though it will sound like it) but from the viewpoint of (against my better judgment) reading this thread every week.

Instead of picking apart his column every week, how about those of you spending so much time posting your reactions give us a weekly taste of your own thoughts about the state of the Red Sox and issues in and around baseball? We could call it something like "Instead of reading Nick Cafardo this week, read this."

Now, obviously, Cafardo's critics here aren't likely to have the sources he does (unnamed or otherwise), so your weekly pieces will have to rely on what you gather from other media, presented from your own points of view. That's fine; many of us would like to read what you have to say.

So, how about it? Instead of measuring who's been more critical of the guy than other posters have, show us what you have to offer.

That's like saying, 'Instead of critiquing Adrian Beltre's defense, how about you get out there and show us how to back up plays, catch grounders, and turn double plays."

Carfado is a professional writer. There are tons of great writers on this site, but this thread is titled "take the buyout", so I believe it should be about critiquing Carfado, not trying to write a weekly tidbits column.
 

E5 Yaz

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QUOTE (johnmd20 @ May 10 2010, 06:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2958750
That's like saying, 'Instead of critiquing Adrian Beltre's defense, how about you get out there and show us how to back up plays, catch grounders, and turn double plays."

Carfado is a professional writer. There are tons of great writers on this site, but this thread is titled "take the buyout", so I believe it should be about critiquing Carfado, not trying to write a weekly tidbits column.


Well, of course folks wouldn't do a tidbits column. I was just interested in what they had to say, beyond the picking apart of Cafardo. You're right, we do have many good writers here; I guess what I was suggesting was that they offer an alternative to reading Cafardo. A weekly blog post doesn't have to be as long as a notes column and doesn't really take much time.

My thinking, such as it was, was to suggest taking the time and energy spent moaning and groaning about Cafardo and produce something original that would be of interest. This thread has basically become, "here's why he screwed up this week." ... (And you're right, if I don't find anything of use in the thread, I don't have to read it.)
 

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This thread has basically become, "here's why he screwed up this week." ... (And you're right, if I don't find anything of use in the thread, I don't have to read it.)


You understand the Internet, right?
 

joyofsox

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Someone could cull the best of the posts here -- mainly Red Sox related but with stuff from around MLB - and edit that into an amazingly thought-provoking column every week. It would take a bit of work to shape into the form of a weekly wrap-up column, but it would be miles and miles better than what Cafardo does.
 

Wilco's Last Fan

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QUOTE (joyofsox @ May 10 2010, 11:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2960339
Someone could cull the best of the posts here -- mainly Red Sox related but with stuff from around MLB - and edit that into an amazingly thought-provoking column every week. It would take a bit of work to shape into the form of a weekly wrap-up column, but it would be miles and miles better than what Cafardo does.



i know a decent number of people who would pay for a subscription to a product like that. you could monetize SOSH in a whole new way.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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I honestly don't know what to make of the Ortiz and Burrell items in today's column. Are we really supposed to give a crap about how athletes treat media members? Why are reporters supposed to be some kind of put-upon underclass? Like they're doing god's work or something?

I guess the Ortiz bit is bringing up the styling after the non-homer, but isn't it really about Ortiz being bitter at the media? So, you and everyone else in Boston wrote Papi off and suggested he should be released and then Papi starts hitting like a stud and you're surprised he's not affable old Big Papi when the media sticks a mic in his face? He doesn't deserve a little vindication?

As for the Burrell bit - way to have your reporter buddy's back, Nick! You showed Pat, didn't you! No wonder people hate reporters. They just love to be petty little dickheads.
 

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I'm shocked that there has been no commentary on Nick's "valuing the human element" argument against expanded replay. Two questions for Nick:

1) If there were an umpire in a video booth making rulings, would he still be a human? Or would that somehow make him, say, a mollusc or cephalopod?

2) Why don't we value "the human element" by letting criminals go free to commit more crimes, instead of imprisoning them? After all, rape and murder are part of the human experience just like umpiring mistakes. Both add to our experience of the world with compelling news stories. We even get warm fuzzy feelings on the rare occasions when a victim forgives his assailant or an ex-perp reforms his life and becomes a community leader, just like we got warm fuzzy feelings over Joyce and Galarraga's behavior. Does that mean we shouldn't bother trying to prevent crime?
 

wutang112878

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QUOTE (Eric Van @ Jun 5 2010, 12:56 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3006106
I'm shocked that there has been no commentary on Nick's "valuing the human element" argument against expanded replay. Two questions for Nick:


Stepping back even further, after watching the NFL implement replay and how it significantly reduced controversial wrong calls, with the downside being maybe once or twice a game there is an extra commercial that wasnt necessary, how could anyone seriously make the case that a replay system [if dont correctly] doesnt benefit the game? This human element stuff just doesnt hold water.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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An extra commercial or 2? Dude Sox games are long enough as it is. JoPos wrote a great article about this the other day. Replay is coming, but I don't like it.
 

ifmanis5

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Nick's column was chock full of lazy BBWAA fail today; he then topped it off with a dollop of delicious irony by defending the umpires...

QUOTE
No wonder some have become defensive and confrontational. They seem to be fighting for their job every time out there. Perhaps reducing some of this pressure would relax umpires so they can do their job properly.


Nick is living proof that performing without pressure of termination is a bad idea, yet he's the last one left in New England to understand that.
 

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QUOTE (ifmanis5 @ Jun 6 2010, 01:10 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3007058
Nick's column was chock full of lazy BBWAA fail today; he then topped it off with a dollop of delicious irony by defending the umpires...



Nick is living proof that performing without pressure of termination is a bad idea, yet he's the last one left in New England to understand that.


Ah yes, remember those halcyon days when umpires were non-confrontational and didn't consider themselves more important than they really are? Me neither.
 

curly2

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QUOTE (Hendu for Kutch @ Jun 6 2010, 05:19 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3007922
Ah yes, remember those halcyon days when umpires were non-confrontational and didn't consider themselves more important than they really are? Me neither.

I do.

And I'm not 90 years old, either. I'm 44.

When I grew up in the 70s and through most of the 80s, umpires WERE non-confrontational and didn't consider themselves more important than they really are. If an Earl Weaver or Billy Martin was screaming right in some guy's face, they might give it back, but it's hard for anyone to to respond when some guy is screaming at you.

But what you NEVER saw as recently as 20-25 years ago was a home-plate ump eject someone in the dugout or an umpire eject a guy who was walking away or an umpire picking a fights.

Nick Cafardo was never a great writer, and his best days are behind him, but he's not always wrong. Umpires really did use to be like that.
 

Hendu for Kutch

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Sure, but you're going back 25 years to show it. Nick is passing this off a very recent phenomenon, as if the recent pressure is what's causing them to act like this.

QUOTE
No wonder some have become defensive and confrontational. They seem to be fighting for their job every time out there. Perhaps reducing some of this pressure would relax umpires so they can do their job properly.


The last sentence especially is simply a stupid thing to say. He really thinks holding umpires less accountable will cause them to become more accountable? That's his argument.
 

wutang112878

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QUOTE (PC Drunken Friar @ Jun 6 2010, 12:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3007038
An extra commercial or 2? Dude Sox games are long enough as it is. JoPos wrote a great article about this the other day. Replay is coming, but I don't like it.


I understand and agree with the desire to speed up the game. Personally I have the patience to sit through 1 or 2 extra commercials and not have an incorrect call affect the outcome of the game. I have much less patience for Remys selfless on-air promotion, and missing the first pitch of innings so the Sox can sneak an extra commercial in, those two problems are very easy fixes but arent for revenue reasons. So if I have to sit through that, I will invest the extra 10 minutes so the game can be called correctly.
 

JimD

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The fact that the Boston Globe went out and hired the terrific Peter Abraham and then let him handle mostly menial assignments while Nick Carfardo remains their featured baseball writer seems like a pretty good example of why this outfit is racing towards irrelevancy.
 

cromulence

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QUOTE (JimD @ Jun 7 2010, 09:34 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3009915
The fact that the Boston Globe went out and hired the terrific Peter Abraham and then let him handle mostly menial assignments while Nick Carfardo remains their featured baseball writer seems like a pretty good example of why this outfit is racing towards irrelevancy.


Not to get off-track here but I think you're giving Abraham way too much credit. He's only terrific in the sense that he has access and is great about sharing it with his readers. However, his analysis and his baseball smarts are extremely weak in my opinion. He used to write some really dumb stuff about the Yankees (his A-Rod hating was really ridiculous and unprofessional).

That said, he's better than Cafardo.
 

JimD

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QUOTE (cromulence @ Jun 7 2010, 10:17 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3009956
Not to get off-track here but I think you're giving Abraham way too much credit. He's only terrific in the sense that he has access and is great about sharing it with his readers.


Seems to me that should be the number one requirement for the writer of a notes column. I can get analysis from dozens of other writers.
 

cromulence

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QUOTE (JimD @ Jun 7 2010, 12:30 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3010058
Seems to me that should be the number one requirement for the writer of a notes column. I can get analysis from dozens of other writers.


That's a good point. Like I said, Abraham would be an improvement over Cafardo in any respect.
 

WenZink

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I'd like to offer a very mild defense of Nick Cafardo's baseball knowledge, and as evidence I'd like to introduce Cafardo's bitch-slap of Tony Massarotti on last evening's edition of "The Baseball Reporters" on 98.5.

The issue was a timely discussion of Justin Masterson's ceiling. Massarotti viewed the Sox parting with Masterson as proof that they felt he had little promise and offered Masterson's 2010 OPS vs left-handed hitters of .940(before last night's CGSO) that Masterson, at best, was a so-so middle reliever. Cafardo countered that Masterson had a chance to be a decent starter and cited Derek Lowe's poor OPS* vs left handed bats early in his career. He then went on note that a year ago, Massarotti had given up on Buchholz reaching his ceiling and two years before that had bailed on Lester. Tony then had to admit that maybe he was one to rush to judgement. btw, Nick also was aware of Hagadone's progress in the Cleveland farm system, citing his recent start (5 IP of shutout ball in his second AA start, with 7K/1BB), whereas Mazz couldn't even recall Hagadone as part of the trade package for VMart last summer.

Now I realize that Nick vs Tony is, essentially, midget wrestling. But isn't baseball supposed to be Massarotti's strong point? At least Nick could make a case by citing facts, even if he did bullsh*t the part about Derek Lowe's struggles vs left handed hitting. (For the record, Lowe's career OPS vs RH=.654 and vs LH = .743, which is a similar split to that of Josh Beckett -- OPS vs RH = .659, vs LH .730. And Lowe's splits were not that much different in his early career either, so Nick was totally pulling that one out of his substantial ass, but it worked against the ill-informed and gullible Massarotti.)

Nick is lazy. True. Nick is a horrid care-taker of the legendary Boston Globe Sunday Baseball Notes column. True. But Nick Cafardo knows more about baseball than Tony Massarotti could learn in 10 lifetimes. Which I find astonishing.
 

Lippa

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QUOTE (WenZink @ Jun 10 2010, 11:58 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3016244
I'd like to offer a very mild defense of Nick Cafardo's baseball knowledge, and as evidence I'd like to introduce Cafardo's bitch-slap of Tony Massarotti on last evening's edition of "The Baseball Reporters" on 98.5.

The issue was a timely discussion of Justin Masterson's ceiling. Massarotti viewed the Sox parting with Masterson as proof that they felt he had little promise and offered Masterson's 2010 OPS vs left-handed hitters of .940(before last night's CGSO) that Masterson, at best, was a so-so middle reliever. Cafardo countered that Masterson had a chance to be a decent starter and cited Derek Lowe's poor OPS* vs left handed bats early in his career. He then went on note that a year ago, Massarotti had given up on Buchholz reaching his ceiling and two years before that had bailed on Lester. Tony then had to admit that maybe he was one to rush to judgement. btw, Nick also was aware of Hagadone's progress in the Cleveland farm system, citing his recent start (5 IP of shutout ball in his second AA start, with 7K/1BB), whereas Mazz couldn't even recall Hagadone as part of the trade package for VMart last summer.

Now I realize that Nick vs Tony is, essentially, midget wrestling. But isn't baseball supposed to be Massarotti's strong point? At least Nick could make a case by citing facts, even if he did bullsh*t the part about Derek Lowe's struggles vs left handed hitting. (For the record, Lowe's career OPS vs RH=.654 and vs LH = .743, which is a similar split to that of Josh Beckett -- OPS vs RH = .659, vs LH .730. And Lowe's splits were not that much different in his early career either, so Nick was totally pulling that one out of his substantial ass, but it worked against the ill-informed and gullible Massarotti.)

Nick is lazy. True. Nick is a horrid care-taker of the legendary Boston Globe Sunday Baseball Notes column. True. But Nick Cafardo knows more about baseball than Tony Massarotti could learn in 10 lifetimes. Which I find astonishing.


But a little earlier in the same show Nick suggested that the Red Sox would have to entertain dealing Papelbon this off season because, essentially, Daniel Bard is going to get sick of being a set up man and is going to want saves instead of holds.
 

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QUOTE (Lippa @ Jun 13 2010, 02:15 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3021653
But a little earlier in the same show Nick suggested that the Red Sox would have to entertain dealing Papelbon this off season because, essentially, Daniel Bard is going to get sick of being a set up man and is going to want saves instead of holds.


He devoted about 600 words to this on Sunday, postulating about what the Sox will do now that Bard is "clearly ready to close." Um, who cares? Bard what do what the Sox tell him to do for another four years or so. That's the way it works, Nick.
 

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And that's essentially what Bard told him in the piece as well. But this is typical Cafardo (he has done this a lot in the past) he gets an idea for a story and he goes with it even if the people he's interviewing present contrary information.

Also I found it interesting that there is one major league team that refuses to scout New England (according to Cafardo). And of course, Nick writes that nugget and just drops it. If I were writing the story I a. would put the team in it because really, who are you protecting by leaving the team name out of the paper* and b. called their scouting director or their GM and ask why the hell aren't they in New England. Especially after Cafardo listed a pretty good group of NE players who been drafted in the last 20 years.

* And honestly,anyone could go through every draft of the last ten years or so and find out which teams haven't drafted a NE player and make a pretty good guess of the team.
 

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QUOTE
Don Orsillo has returned to the NESN booth after a bout with vertigo.


He implies that even Don Orsillo is tougher than Ellsbury. He should really dive into investigative journalism and get someone to break five of his ribs and see how quickly he can be back to his already very sedentary lifestyle.
 

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QUOTE (Andrew @ Jun 16 2010, 07:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3027521
He implies that even Don Orsillo is tougher than Ellsbury. He should really dive into investigative journalism and get someone to break five of his ribs and see how quickly he can be back to his already very sedentary lifestyle.



Sedentary? We have had multiple reports that he walks around a mall on the South Shore.
I will be expecting a personal apology to Nick shortly.
 

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wutang112878

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QUOTE (CTsox24 @ Jul 8 2010, 05:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3066131
Now the HIT JOB is on again towards Ells. Did Jacoby shit on his pancakes? He has really been all over the Kid since the rib injury. You might want to hold your nose at the stench of this one.


I bet this agenda column got more reads this his notes column
 

joyofsox

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Apropos of nothing
3. Only in America can a team in bankruptcy court (the Rangers) obtain the best available pitcher (Cliff Lee)
The Rangers traded four players for Lee. The only money involved in the deal was the $2.25 million that the Rangers received.
 

RedOctober3829

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From today's Notes.


4. After watching Scott Kazmir recently I no longer consider the July 2004 multi-player deal for Mets righthander Victor Zambrano a bad one; 5. Still think the Rangers will fade.
On the first one, it's still an incredibly bad move on the Mets' part. Kazmir contributed 5 really good years to Tampa. On the second point, please Nick tell me why you think the Rangers will fade in a separate section. Don't sit there and just say that. They just acquired the best pitcher in baseball and have the biggest division lead in baseball so a few bullet points on why you feel this way might be better than just saying you think they will.
 

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God, I threw the paper across the room when I read that bit about Kazmir/Zambrano. That might be the stupidest fucking thing he's ever written, and given his track record that's really saying something.

Also just hated the bit about teams perhaps laying off Japanese players because some of them have struggled or gotten hurt this year. Iwamura blew out his ACL last tear and is struggling in the minors now; should this be a surprise? Dice K won 33 games in his first two years and has gone 10-9 since; there are countless pitchers of all nationalities who've had the same career path; no ones suggesting teams stop signing Dominican pitchers just because Pedro got hurt.
 

Hendu for Kutch

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That was monumentally stupid. After seeing that Babe Ruth hasn't done anything in over 70 years, I no longer consider the sale to the Yankees a bad one.
 

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It's something someone with an IQ of 70 thinks is sound logic.

Not to rehash the trade for the millionth time, but even if Kazmir never threw a pitch at the major league level and Zambrano was a cromulent starter, it's a bad trade because Kazmir might have fetched Randy Johnson.
 

Crazy Puppy

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It's something someone with an IQ of 70 thinks is sound logic.

Not to rehash the trade for the millionth time, but even if Kazmir never threw a pitch at the major league level and Zambrano was a cromulent starter, it's a bad trade because Kazmir might have fetched Randy Johnson.
Right, and not only that, when the Rays traded Kazmir to the Angels, they got back Sean Rodriguez, who looks like he'll be a major league regular, at the very least. So 6 years later, the Rays are still getting value from having made that original Kazmir/Zambrano trade.
 

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Not to put too fine a point on it, but let's compare the value received by each side following the trade of Victor Zambrano for Scott Kazmir (we'll call Bartolome Fortunato to the New York Mets for Jose Diaz as the rest of the deal a wash).

Mets get out of Zambrano:
2005: ERA+ of 99
2006: ERA+ of 66
2007: moves to Tor/Bal as free agent and posts an ERA+ of 46
2008: out of baseball

Just for fun, W/L of 8-14 for Mets, ERA of 4.46 over 187 innings.

Devil Dogs get out of Kazmir:
2005: ERA+ of 116
2006: ERA+ of 143
2007: ERA+ of 130
2008: ERA+ of 127
2009: ERA+ of 76, but then traded to Angels for Rodriguez, an OPS+ 92 right now and under control for at least three more years

W/L of 47-37, ERA of 3.61 over 723 innings.

But, somehow, Kazmir now not being good for the Angels makes that an even trade? That must be one of the 20 best trades of the 2000s, no?

I know we all knew how stupid that was, but I had to lay that out just to look at it with my own eyes, if nothing else. That is a spectacularly stupid thing to print in the Sunday Baseball Notes section of the Boston Globe.
 

SocrManiac

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This is so stupid, I need to make a metaphor out of it to understand it.

I trade my beat to crap Acura TSX straight up to my ex-mother in law for a like-new BMW M3. The TSX fails catastrophically, leaving her drowning in the Atlantic Ocean with ludicrous repair bills. I get 5 fun-filled years out of my M3 and, just as it starts to fail, trade it to my ex-girlfriend's new boyfriend for a newer Civic. The M3 then dies. The Civic is never what the M3 was, but it's serviceable.

So, the original trade doesn't look so bad for my ex-mother in law?
 

Over Guapo Grande

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Sox used two pinch-hitters, Daniel Nava and Marco Scutaro in the ninth, but neither could get on base to make something happen. The Sox simply don't have the fire power at this point to comeback in games. Michael Wuertz did a nice job in this series including shutting down the Sox in the ninth. He retired the side in order and got Eric Patterson to flu out to left to end the game. Game was played in 3:02 before 30,456. The Sox lose two out oif three and both the Yankees and Rays won.
From the extra-bases game recap today. One would hope he'd at least give a quick look at what he rote before he hat submit. Just lazy.
 

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More laziness...this time in Ralph Houk's writeup today:

Houk won two World Series and three pennants in two stints with the Yankees. His first run ended after the ’63 season when he became the club’s general manager and was succeeded as manager by Yogi Berra. He eventually fired Berra and Berra’s successor, Bill Virdon, and named himself manager in 1966.

He led the Tigers and lost 102 games in 1975, and managed the Red Sox from 1981-85. He left the game with a 1,619-1,531 record. He had also participated in six World Series as a backup catcher to Berra, but only had two World Series at-bats.
Except that Bill Virdon replaced Houk. In fact Bill Virdon was on the Pirates as late at 1968. Ralph Houk replaced Johnny Keane, which is one of the most famous tragic stories in all of baseball history.

Also, Ralph Houk was not the manager in 1985. He left after the 1984 season.

Come on Nick. This is basic shit. I didn't have to even look this shit up. it was obvious while I was reading it...the Johnny Keane thing especially. If you don't know that story, you shouldn't be writing about baseball for an occupation.
 

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Good catch, Berry. I sent that along to BSMW to see if they'll point it out. No excuse for Nick to mess basic facts up like that.
Here's his excuse: He's old, he makes mental mistakes like this because he's old, and the copydesk editing function no longer exists back at the office to catch these mistakes, or else the copy editors there are so young and stupid they don't know their baseball history.
 

joe dokes

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The on-line version of the story has been laundered:


Houk won two World Series and three pennants in two stints with the Yankees. His first run ended after the ’63 season when he became the club’s general manager and was succeeded as manager by Yogi Berra.
But this still remains:
He led the Tigers and lost 102 games in 1975, and managed the Red Sox from 1981-85.
 

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Wow, Nick said nothing stupid for nine whole days?

Today he declares Toronto a deadline winner in part because they "stuck to their guns" and didn't deal Downs for "pennies on the dollar."

Oh, really? Every team in MLB desperate for bullpen help, and no one offered them anything remotely good?

Downs will earn whatever team he finishes with two draft picks. He has no value for August and September to the Jays, plenty of value to a contender. Every interested team would offer the Jays a pair of players whom they thought the Jays ought to like better than the two picks, because they had zero chance otherwise. And they could afford to offer more value than the two picks because they were getting pennant-race value back.

In fact, the failure of any non-contending team to trade a desirable FA commodity is always inexcusable. There is no way you can come out ahead unless you can clean everyone else's clock at draft day. The Jays failure to trade Downs wasn't smart, it was driven by hubris, by an inflated sense of how well they can do next June. They'll just love this three years from now in Toronto when one or more of the drafted guys inevitably turns out to be Kris Johnson or Jason Place (or for you oldsters, Aaron Capista or Mark Fischer).
 

dcmissle

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In fact, the failure of any non-contending team to trade a desirable FA commodity is always inexcusable. There is no way you can come out ahead unless you can clean everyone else's clock at draft day. The Jays failure to trade Downs wasn't smart, it was driven by hubris, by an inflated sense of how well they can do next June. They'll just love this three years from now in Toronto when one or more of the drafted guys inevitably turns out to be Kris Johnson or Jason Place (or for you oldsters, Aaron Capista or Mark Fischer).

Are you entirely comfortable with this categorical statement? I ask because Olney, JP and others are crushing the Nats right now for not dealing Dunn, and I'm not buying it right now based on the proof before me.

At a minimum, it seems that those doing the crushing should be in the position of saying, "I know for a fact that the Nats were offered x, y and z, and turned it down. And that's foolish."

In Dunn's case, I suppose you could fault the Nats for not extending him by the deadline. But it's at least arguable that in keeping him, the Nats may have enhanced their chances of extending him, and that this + the two picks may > whatever teams were offering.

If your formulation were always true, I find it curious that the Rays didn't make a major move for Dunn, particularly given their drafting prowess and perceived one-year window.
 
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