QB or OT in the 2024 1st round? Where would the team be?

[Cellar-Door]

My point is that if a QB needs to sit he shouldn't be drafted at 3. Or 2 like Wilson. It's a waste of a rookie contract year and a waste of a season. If he needs to sit he's by definition a project and you simply cannot draft a project that high. Drafting that high means you are in dire need of immediate help and should plan accordingly.

If they thought they needed to develop him for a year, then I don't think he's worthy of a top 5 draft pick. Williams and Daniels seem to be doing just fine by playing.

EDIT: they are also giving the years-long development of a QB to a guy who's never even called plays before. This strikes me as unideal. As for Wolf's GB philosophy, they took Rodgers 24th and Love in the second round. Not 3rd overall. Very, very different circumstances there (for one, GB was good when they took those two QBs). Also, IMO it's bad for a QB's development to be on a team that will likely go 1-16 and have a losing culture around him. But what do I know.

Why? The rookie deal is nice sure, but elite QB play is far more valuable. KC doesn't regret "wasting" a year of Mahomes or BAL wasting half a season of Lamar.

But beyond that... teams are almost never good their QB's rookie year, the Patriots don't expect to be a playoff team this year, so nothing is wasted so long as Maye develops.

Drafting high means you are bad.... trying to juice a quick hit instead of trying to build long term is how you stay bad.

Daniels is a different QB, he is a very old prospect who played half a decade in college, his selling point is being ready early. Williams is in-between, but also... this week was a turnaround, through 4 weeks people were calling him a bust because he struggled.

As to development of the QB... why would you care about playcalling over....QB development?

The big thing is you seem hung up on "top 3 pick".... yeah, that's where the QBs most likely to become NFL stars go, so that's where you usually have to draft them.... coincidentally that's also where the bad teams draft, and many of those teams are bad in part because they don't have the patience to build their teams well, or their coaches/GMs are constantly on the hotseat.
Edit- look to Mahomes, he went 10th... he sat most of a year.... yes they had Alex Smith.... do you think that if Reid thought Mahomes would play like "Mahomes" from game 1 they wouldn't have traded Smith that year instead of the next? Or that if they thought playing year 1 was the best way to develop him they wouldn't have played him? They put a big investment in trading up for him and took him top 10.

 

[JokersWildJIMED]

It’s not always bad and it’s not always good. But when you sit a rookie because Favre or Rodgers are the incumbent then you’re simply playing the better QB. Most teams don’t have that luxury and there are lots of examples of rookies starting right away and it working out. In today’s NFL, teams that have no quarterback do not sit the #3 pick, unless you’re Mayo.

 

[j-man]

Perhaps they should have draft Alt at 3 and Nix later then.

yes couild have got nix before 10 but it wouild have cost your 2025 1st through and alt at 3

 

[Pxer]

This thread reminds me of people buying a stock at the peak of a hype cycle and freaking out at a 15% correction.

Breathe. Give it time. The plan hasn't changed.

• We want the Pats to have the most desirable pick in the draft.
• The defense is going to be OK when healthy and a few pieces are added.
• Drake Maye has 4 more years at a potential bargain price after this season.
• The Pats have a ton of cap space rolling into next season. They will use it.

 

[j-man]

and i wouild been just as happy with maye if not more so myseif peyton is the guy that has a man crush on him

 

[j44thor]

Reality is this team needs a massive talent infusion, the type you can really only get by hitting on multiple 2nd/3rd day picks or by trading a top 5 pick for a haul like CHI did in 2023.

Would anyone really want to be the LAC right now? They have two franchise T and a franchise QB but seems their relative ceiling is winning at most a WC game. They don't have a lot of depth, their Defense is ancient and their offense is middling.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Reality is this team needs a massive talent infusion, the type you can really only get by hitting on multiple 2nd/3rd day picks or by trading a top 5 pick for a haul like CHI did in 2023.

Would anyone really want to be the LAC right now? They have two franchise T and a franchise QB but seems their relative ceiling is winning at most a WC game. They don't have a lot of depth, their Defense is ancient and their offense is middling.

I would gladly trade places with the Chargers. They have their QB. We have no idea yet if we have ours. They have a far superior HC. They have some OL pieces to work with. The defense has given up the fewest points in the league. The skill position players, while limited, are better than ours.

It might take the Pats 3 years to even get to the level that the Chargers are at this year. We’re all obviously hoping for sooner but this franchise is simply a dumpster fire now in almost all facets.

 

[riboflav]

Nvm.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

There might have been a path to trade down with NYG and wind up with Alt or Latham at #6, then trade back up with 2-3 2nd-rounders (including NYG's and NEP's own in 2024 and 2025) and wind up with McCarthy or Penix or Nix. Even more possible if you were willing to accept Fashanu or Mims or Fautanu in lieu of Alt/Latham.

Not sure I'd feel all that much better about that than a higher-ceiling'ed QB prospect in Maye, but second-guess-worthy. Maybe you don't get Ja'Lynn Polk, but my sense is he's more very good than potentially elite, and that's not an impossible commodity to acquire.

 

[Gash Prex]

I don't really see how people are treating Maye is some fungible "value" - if the Pats believe he is a top tier QB prospect (Allen, Herbert, Stroud etc...) then you take him. If you don't, you trade out. Suggesting a hypothetical future pick could be the same level prospect seems to miss the forest in the trees.

 

[snowmanny]

I think the question is something like, should they have drafted Alt instead of Maye and picked up, say, Fields instead of Brissett and not planned of using the draft to find their QB. I'd still do the Maye pick and get the LT next year. We will be grateful for these crappy losses in April.

Edit: And another OL in round 2. I don't know much about football but I know you need an offensive line.

 

[TomRicardo]

Bo Nix is going to be 3-2. Caleb Williams is 3-2. Jayden Daniels is 4-1.

But by all means, Maye absolutely must be kept in bubble wrap. It's best for the team.

There is zero chance Drake Maye could be effective behind this line. 2007 Tom Brady wouldn't be effective behind this line. The line is probably the worst line the NFL has seen in at least 25 years.

I don't know if Drake Maye is the right guy but I know 100% that the Pats would have been much better today and going forward with Joe Alt on this team.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

It's worth flagging that we're having the debate the morning after the left side of our line had their best game of the year

If someone dropped down from Mars yesterday and watched our line they'd say "You guys need a RT and a C"

But yesterday at least, LT wasn't an issue

 

[ElcaballitoMVP]

I don't really see how people are treating Maye is some fungible "value" - if the Pats believe he is a top tier QB prospect (Allen, Herbert, Stroud etc...) then you take him. If you don't, you trade out. Suggesting a hypothetical future pick could be the same level prospect seems to miss the forest in the trees.

I'm in complete agreement.

Would the Pats be better this year if they selected Joe Alt? Yes, they would. Would they be better than like a 3 or 4 win team though? Probably not. This team is terrible. One tackle isn't going to change that and you'd still be searching for a franchise QB.

Case in point: Joe Thomas was an incredible LT for a long time. But the Browns still sucked because they never had a QB.

I think there's a much more valid argument to be discussing whether they should've traded from R2 into R1 to get an OT or used their R2 pick to take an OT instead of Ja'Lynn Polk (4 OT went after they took Polk and before they picked again in R3).

 

[RedOctober3829]

To me we have 2 avenues for '25. If they get a top 3 pick, you can stay put and take somebody like Travis Hunter, McMillan, Will Johnson, or Mason Graham and then try to trade back into R1 to get Campbell or Banks. @SMU_Sox thinks that both players may end up having to play guard in the NFL rather than tackle, so to me it's not good use of resources to pick either one of them that high.

The other choice would be to hope that a couple from the group of Sanders/Ewars/Milroe/Beck gain momentum through the combine hype machine in the winter and shoot up draft boards and then it can become a bidding war to trade down and still get an elite player a few picks down and gain a haul of '25 and future picks.

It comes down to the fact that it is a bad year to want a franchise LT at the top of the draft so you have to try to fill other areas of need. Good news is that this team is so bad that pretty much every area needs to be addressed.

 

[Justthetippett]

.

It comes down to the fact that it is a bad year to want a franchise LT at the top of the draft so you have to try to fill other areas of need. Good news is that this team is so bad that pretty much every area needs to be addressed.

This is it. They need to trade down and accumulate assets pretty much no matter what. They have very few even potentially elite players on their roster. They are in the ultimate draft for value not for need situation.

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

Perhaps they should have draft Alt at 3 and Nix later then.

I can only imaging the keening that would have echoed throughout SoSH if they took Nix with the Giants pick. I would have been gobsmacked, and I say this as someone who liked Nix as the Best of the Rest behind the top 3 choices.

My point is that if a QB needs to sit he shouldn't be drafted at 3. Or 2 like Wilson. It's a waste of a rookie contract year and a waste of a season. If he needs to sit he's by definition a project and you simply cannot draft a project that high. Drafting that high means you are in dire need of immediate help and should plan accordingly.

A defensible argument, but the cost of groceries is what it is. You're going to overdraft a QB in almost every scenario, or you're going to go without.

 

[lexrageorge]

Why are we assuming Bo Nix will be a good QB? Because he’s looked decidedly meh at best so far.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Obviously they would be short-term better if they had a good LT. Just think about the ripple effect of filling out the rest of the line if that position was locked down. It probably means Onwenu is at RG, and there are enough options at LG that someone may emerge. C (sans Andrews) and RT are still problems, but in the early part of the year every spot on the line has been a problem other than C when Andrews was healthy.

That said, as hard as it is to find an LT, it is harder still to find a QB. If they thought Maye could be the guy, he was (and still is) worth the investment.

 

[sezwho]

Obviously they would be short-term better if they had a good LT. Just think about the ripple effect of filling out the rest of the line if that position was locked down. It probably means Onwenu is at RG, and there are enough options at LG that someone may emerge. C (sans Andrews) and RT are still problems, but in the early part of the year every spot on the line has been a problem other than C when Andrews was healthy.

That said, as hard as it is to find an LT, it is harder still to find a QB. If they thought Maye could be the guy, he was (and still is) worth the investment.

Yeah, this is pretty much where I sit as well. The knock on impact of the LT might have got this team to five or six wins…and thus maybe out of the next quarterback sweepstakes. Bill ponced around in circles for years trying everything and accomplishing nothing after Brady left. Ultimately, this is year one of a real rebuild and it was of course going to start with a QB.

 

[lexrageorge]

Drafting a tackle only made sense if the Pats thought Maye didn't possess the tools to become a good NFL QB. For example, there were some obvious questions about Mac Jones in the lead up to the 2021 draft, and in retrospect Bill should have done something else with the #15 pick. Or if the Pats had the #4 pick, as McCarthy, Nix, and Penix all had (and still have) questions about their ability to succeed in the NFL.

Rather have fewer wins in 2024 and a long term answer at QB than the other way around.

 

[bsj]

QB was the right call, but I dont feel this team has a plan in place to build out OT or WR. They need to aggressively overpay for a FA OT imo so they can then draft Travis Hunter. Or possibly aggressively overpay for a Tee Higgins type so then they can go OT in rd 1. They have to address both and the 2nd round pick wont cut it IMO

 

[BaseballJones]

Travis Hunter is a phenomenal all around talent. Really good at both WR and CB. But is he an *elite* wide receiver or just a great all around football player?

 

[Cellar-Door]

Travis Hunter is a phenomenal all around talent. Really good at both WR and CB. But is he an *elite* wide receiver or just a great all around football player?

Most people I trust think he's a CB in the NFL and an excellent one, that you draw up a few plays for as a WR. If they want the top WR it's likely either McMillan or Burden.

Overall for the offseason I think the strategy will be to get aggressive in FA looking for impact players anywhere, but also trying to lock in one of the better OTs (Jackson, Bolles, Stanley, etc.), then if they are at #1.... I expect them to aggressively shop the pick.

 

[Justthetippett]

Most people I trust think he's a CB in the NFL and an excellent one, that you draw up a few plays for as a WR. If they want the top WR it's likely either McMillan or Burden.

Overall for the offseason I think the strategy will be to get aggressive in FA looking for impact players anywhere, but also trying to lock in one of the better OTs (Jackson, Bolles, Stanley, etc.), then if they are at #1.... I expect them to aggressively shop the pick.

I hope they go hard in free agency and shop the pick, regardless of where it falls within what is very likely to be the Top 5. They need depth and high-end talent, plus additional bites at the apple in future years. Also hope they move aggressively in the trade market and get as much as they can for their current Vets. The Judon trade was a very good one. More of those type moves.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I hope they go hard in free agency and shop the pick, regardless of where it falls within what is very likely to be the Top 5. They need depth and high-end talent, plus additional bites at the apple in future years. Also hope they move aggressively in the trade market and get as much as they can for their current Vets. The Judon trade was a very good one. More of those type moves.

I'm not sure there are any other "vets" that will get anything. Peppers might have had value last week, but otherwise.... nobody bringing back anything better than what they bring to the team by being here.

 

[tims4wins]

I'm not sure there are any other "vets" that will get anything. Peppers might have had value last week, but otherwise.... nobody bringing back anything better than what they bring to the team by being here.

Eh. Stevenson. Uche. Bourne. There are a few guys worth a 5th or so.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Eh. Stevenson. Uche. Bourne. There are a few guys worth a 5th or so.

Maybe? Stevenson and Bourne you take a cap hit (also I think a 5th is unlikely for either, one is a RB, the other hasn't played off a knee injury), Uche is on a 1 year deal and his interest was pretty middling last year. I think MAYBE you could get a 5th if you threw back a 7th... what is the point of that though? Would you really want to move off your starting RB or WR #1 (2 at worst) for no cap savings to move up 50 picks in the range of the draft where the upside is usually... quality backup?

 

[tims4wins]

Maybe? Stevenson and Bourne you take a cap hit (also I think a 5th is unlikely for either, one is a RB, the other hasn't played off a knee injury), Uche is on a 1 year deal and his interest was pretty middling last year. I think MAYBE you could get a 5th if you threw back a 7th... what is the point of that though? Would you really want to move off your starting RB or WR #1 (2 at worst) for no cap savings to move up 50 picks in the range of the draft where the upside is usually... quality backup?

Not saying I’d necessarily make any of those trades. Just that there could be some (limited) opportunities.

 

[Justthetippett]

I'm not sure there are any other "vets" that will get anything. Peppers might have had value last week, but otherwise.... nobody bringing back anything better than what they bring to the team by being here.

Could be. And decisions are made case by case. But I'm letting the league know we're open for business. Injuries etc could change certain markets for these guys.

 

[sezwho]

QB was the right call, but I dont feel this team has a plan in place to build out OT or WR. They need to aggressively overpay for a FA OT imo so they can then draft Travis Hunter. Or possibly aggressively overpay for a Tee Higgins type so then they can go OT in rd 1. They have to address both and the 2nd round pick wont cut it IMO

Funny, while it clearly hasn’t delivered success yet, I clearly see a plan. They were poised to spend heavy blood and treasure (picks and cash) to potentially significantly upgrade WR. Polk looks like a sold 2-3 already from the draft plus they put fat stacks in front of the available FA(ish in the 49ers case)s, and those wideouts wisely chose not to take that money here.

They misplayed/made bad assumptions with the line decisions but it was clearly the third priority (after QB and WR) so was always going to suffer for investment. You can certainly not like the plan, I hear tell that some folks share that opinion, but that’s different from no plan.

For what it’s worth, I also think they have an explicit plan for Maye. They though it was better to give him 30% of the reps and accelerate his development, instead of split a third way to enable a veteran backup that’s presumably even more limited than Brissett. They made the bet they could get Maye ready fast enough for him to be functional as the next man up.

 

[bsj]

Funny, while it clearly hasn’t delivered success yet, I clearly see a plan. They were poised to spend heavy blood and treasure (picks and cash) to potentially significantly upgrade WR. Polk looks like a sold 2-3 already from the draft plus they put fat stacks in front of the available FA(ish in the 49ers case)s, and those wideouts wisely chose not to take that money here.

They misplayed/made bad assumptions with the line decisions but it was clearly the third priority (after QB and WR) so was always going to suffer for investment. You can certainly not like the plan, I hear tell that some folks share that opinion, but that’s different from no plan.

For what it’s worth, I also think they have an explicit plan for Maye. They though it was better to give him 30% of the reps and accelerate his development, instead of split a third way to enable a veteran backup that’s presumably even more limited than Brissett. They made the bet they could get Maye ready fast enough for him to be functional as the next man up.

I just think thatwhen Round 1 of this draft ends, they need to have a new OT and a new WR either in that round or the FA period leading to it.

Then use your Rd 2 pick on ANOTHER OL.

 

[sezwho]

I just think thatwhen Round 1 of this draft ends, they need to have a new OT and a new WR either in that round or the FA period leading to it.

Then use your Rd 2 pick on ANOTHER OL.

Yup and that OL better be a T!

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

I know this is kinda irrelevant to the debate, but this last Sunday we got effective LT play from Lowe, and Onwenu was at RG

I just think thatwhen Round 1 of this draft ends, they need to have a new OT and a new WR either in that round or the FA period leading to it.

Or by trade

I mean, we don't need an All Pro pair of tackles, although obviously that would be great. We just need competence, so that the rebuild isn't undermined. There was some speculation (in one of these threads) about the Pats trading for Walker Little, who's currently buried on the bench in Jacksonville. If we traded for Little to be our starting RT. Lowe solidified our LT position. Carsen came back from injury and kept developing into starter-quality. *And* we used a 1st round pick or free agent signing to add someone with the body/athleticism to be a LT... that would be great.

Even if it meant that our tackle performance was more or less league-average next year

 

[Garshaparra]

If we traded for Little to be our starting RT. Lowe solidified our LT position. Carsen came back from injury and kept developing into starter-quality. *And* we used a 1st round pick or free agent signing to add someone with the body/athleticism to be a LT... that would be great.

By Carsen, did you mean Caedan (Wallace)? I think that fits, just trying to sort out the autocorrection. If Little could be had for...well, very little (e.g. 5th for Little and a 7th), that seems reasonable just to have a 4th actual tackle on the roster, but his grades are atrocious this year, 108th of 112 on PFF. Demontrey Jacobs is 109th though, so hey, there's improvement.

LT followed by either a top S or prospect RT in the second seems like where they're headed in 2025, unless Barmore cannot recover from his illness, in which case DL becomes 2nd priority.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

Yes, Caedan. Sorry, old man brain randomly swaps some names for other names when it's after dinner-time.

(And other times)

 

[NextBigThing8184]

Funny, while it clearly hasn’t delivered success yet, I clearly see a plan. They were poised to spend heavy blood and treasure (picks and cash) to potentially significantly upgrade WR. Polk looks like a sold 2-3 already from the draft plus they put fat stacks in front of the available FA(ish in the 49ers case)s, and those wideouts wisely chose not to take that money here.

They misplayed/made bad assumptions with the line decisions but it was clearly the third priority (after QB and WR) so was always going to suffer for investment. You can certainly not like the plan, I hear tell that some folks share that opinion, but that’s different from no plan.

For what it’s worth, I also think they have an explicit plan for Maye. They though it was better to give him 30% of the reps and accelerate his development, instead of split a third way to enable a veteran backup that’s presumably even more limited than Brissett. They made the bet they could get Maye ready fast enough for him to be functional as the next man up.

Curious what Polk has done to suggest he’s a “solid 2 or 3”

Has he done anything we didn’t see from Aaron Dobson, Kenbrell Thompkins, Bethel Johnson and other inexperienced/rookie WR’s

I don’t think there’s any evidence one way or the other whether or not Polk belongs in the NFL let alone as a #2 on what needs to be at least a decent offense.

 

[dynomite]

I mean, we don't need an All Pro pair of tackles, although obviously that would be great. We just need competence, so that the rebuild isn't undermined. T

I will sort of agree with this, although I don't think immediately finding two All Pro tackles this offseason is an option (unfortunately).

Long term? To move from "rebuild" to "competing" in, I don't know, 2026 (?)*, a lot will have to go right -- first and foremost and obviously with Maye. But at some point, yes, I think we'll need to once again have a "good" offensive line and a cornerstone LT that can keep Maye mostly clean against the league's best DEs, whether they're All Pros or not.

To your point, hopefully their 1st round pick in 2025 will net us one of those.

* Maybe it'll be longer. But still, Josh Allen, the most common dream comp, took the Bills to 10-6 and a playoff loss in his 2nd season at age 23. If Maye is good -- ultimately the biggest "if" in recent franchise history, I realize -- and we hit on the right LT in the draft next year and get some lucky and better performance elsewhere I think the rebuild could progress faster than we realize.

 

[cshea]

Curious what Polk has done to suggest he’s a “solid 2 or 3”

Has he done anything we didn’t see from Aaron Dobson, Kenbrell Thompkins, Bethel Johnson and other inexperienced/rookie WR’s

I don’t think there’s any evidence one way or the other whether or not Polk belongs in the NFL let alone as a #2 on what needs to be at least a decent offense.

I think Polk has been decent. He seems to get open and thus far has the 3rd most targets on the team behind Pop and Henry. I know bad offense, bad skill guys, ball has got to go somewhere but I've thought Polk has generally been positive for the offense. Obviously he needs to clean up the footwork on plays like the incompletion in the end zone but my general impressions is that he has good hands and can make contested catches.

His efficiency dipped the last 2 weeks, only 4 catches on 13 targets but getting a high volume of targets from a conservative QB probably means he's getting open.

I dunno. My take after 5 games is that he's not going to be a #1 WR but he could succeed as a solid possession receiver.

 

[jk333]

Yes, Caedan. Sorry, old man brain randomly swaps some names for other names when it's after dinner-time.

(And other times)

I agree with you, if Lowe can keep his performance going and they can get some mediocre games from Wallace it would be huge to only have a major need for 1 tackle instead of two. Not that they shouldn’t target two, but they have multiple major needs on offense.

@cshea I agree on Polk; I’m not on fan of the draft pick but as a player he’s seemed fine so far and seems like he can be a contributor to their offense in coming years which for a 2nd round pick is important. I contrast that with Thornton who was obviously a miss by the first few games of his second season.