Quarterback Contracts

dcmissle · Nov 7, 2015

Right, TB is deliberately leaving money on the table. Which means any QB comparison contractually to TB is apples-to-oranges and should not be a basis for crushing other teams.

Put differently. Some people would seek to diminish Seattle's accomplishments by arguing that they had Russell Wilson on a rookie contract. Now that's foolish because they were smart enough to draft him where they did.

But that aside, if you assume TB continues at anything resembling his current level of play, the Pats will be benefitting from the same sort of advantage -- one reflecting TB's generosity and wisdom instead of the constraints imposed by the CBA.

axx · Nov 7, 2015

Seems far too easy to suggest that Brady is still getting his money outside of the cap one way or another. How would the NFL enforce something like this? Kraft could easily find a business willing to give Brady a sweet endorsement deal in exchange for a discount on advertising in Kraft's empire. Maybe he's got some sort of personal services contract lining up for him when his playing days are over.

Plus, Giselle. She's making like $30M a year.

soxfan121 · Nov 7, 2015

Dave Archibald has written about aspects of this:
QB Investment
The QB Merry-Go-Round

Red(s)HawksFan · Nov 7, 2015

axx said:
Seems far too easy to suggest that Brady is still getting his money outside of the cap one way or another. How would the NFL enforce something like this? Kraft could easily find a business willing to give Brady a sweet endorsement deal in exchange for a discount on advertising in Kraft's empire. Maybe he's got some sort of personal services contract lining up for him when his playing days are over.

Plus, Giselle. She's making like $30M a year.

Your last sentence, I think, is a key thing. Brady doesn't do much in the way of endorsements mainly because he doesn't really have to. But even before his marriage (8 years into his career), Brady wasn't exactly seeking out top dollar contracts and appearing in a TV commercial every 10 minutes to make money. He's never really been about the money.

But despite that, according to Spotrac, he is currently third in career earnings among active NFL players behind only the Manning brothers ($162M and counting). In every legit, above board way, the guy has gotten paid and paid well in his career. No real need for under the table, cap evading shenanigans.

Papelbon's Poutine · Nov 7, 2015

axx said:
Seems far too easy to suggest that Brady is still getting his money outside of the cap one way or another. How would the NFL enforce something like this? Kraft could easily find a business willing to give Brady a sweet endorsement deal in exchange for a discount on advertising in Kraft's empire. Maybe he's got some sort of personal services contract lining up for him when his playing days are over.

Plus, Giselle. She's making like $30M a year.

Closer to $50M actually.

Papelbon's Poutine · Nov 7, 2015

Red(s)HawksFan said:
But despite that, according to Spotrac, he is currently third in career earnings among active NFL players behind only the Manning brothers ($162M and counting). In every legit, above board way, the guy has gotten paid and paid well in his career. No real need for under the table, cap evading shenanigans.

Longevity. How may other players have been around as long as he has. Even at a reduced salary, that piles up quick when other guys are flaming out of the league and never seeing the back end of contracts.

SeoulSoxFan · Nov 7, 2015

axx said:
Seems far too easy to suggest that Brady is still getting his money outside of the cap one way or another. How would the NFL enforce something like this? Kraft could easily find a business willing to give Brady a sweet endorsement deal in exchange for a discount on advertising in Kraft's empire. Maybe he's got some sort of personal services contract lining up for him when his playing days are over.

Plus, Giselle. She's making like $30M a year.

This kind of thinking bugs me. Not to you specifically axx, because if has been floated around before.

No one has any scoop or info as to any post-retirement payback. It's pure speculation. Plus, I believe it is against the rules. It is accusing Brady and Kraft of cheating by circumventing the cap. I call Bullshit.

Regarding Giselle's income. Do we really think that Brady wouldn't take less if his wife made way less, or even none at all? Especially given his insane drive to win? Does it seem realistic that Brady would say he needs $25m a year as a family/household income so he'd require a market value contact, but since his wife makes more he'd now take a below-market one?

If seems to me that #12 does everything for one reason only, which is to win on the football field. To suggest any other seems against anything else I've read and seen.

Lose Remerswaal · Nov 7, 2015

Didn't Giselle retire?

And I wouldn't be surprised at all if TB and Kraft have a side deal or two in place.

Papelbon's Poutine · Nov 7, 2015

Lose Remerswaal said:
Didn't Giselle retire?

And I wouldn't be surprised at all if TB and Kraft have a side deal or two in place.

Pretty sure just from the runway. Id imagine the majority of her income comes from other sources.

Reverend · Nov 7, 2015

Papelbon's Poutine said:
Pretty sure just from the runway. Id imagine the majority of her income comes from other sources.

Reverend · Nov 7, 2015

snowmanny · Nov 7, 2015

I was able to make it almost 40 seconds into each of those videos.

Reverend · Nov 7, 2015

International hits.

mwonow · Nov 7, 2015

Reverend said:
International hits.

I'm in. Great tunes, both of them. What's with the weird loop in All Day and All of the Night, though?

Saints Rest · Nov 7, 2015

Even before DFG, I think Brady felt a duty to his fellow players, and by extension, the NFLPA, such that he would never have taken a $1m per year salary, even if his other income and ego might have allowed it.

The talk about Brady is masking what should be the real crux of this thread which is what is driving these owners/GMs to sign such mediocrities as Jay Cutler to such huge contracts.

PC Drunken Friar · Nov 7, 2015

BaseballJones said:
How would you like to be a SF fan right now, knowing that your team is committed to Kaepernick for 5 more years beyond 2015, and the guy just got benched? At least the Ravens, with a crazy contract for Flacco, have a guy that's won a Super Bowl.

But on that point, in 2016-17, Flacco's cap number is virtually DOUBLE that of Brady. Holy smokes.

I'm not going to pretend to know how the cap works, but when he signed it, didn't everyone say that Kaepernicks contract was extremely team friendly, as in, if he sucked, they could cut him with little cap penalty?

PedroKsBambino · Nov 7, 2015

BaseballJones said:
How would you like to be a SF fan right now, knowing that your team is committed to Kaepernick for 5 more years beyond 2015, and the guy just got benched? At least the Ravens, with a crazy contract for Flacco, have a guy that's won a Super Bowl.

But on that point, in 2016-17, Flacco's cap number is virtually DOUBLE that of Brady. Holy smokes.

Kaepernick's contract built in this possibility---he can be cut post June 1 with a $12.8 mil dead cap number in 2016, which saves $2.4 mil on the cap next year. So given the situation, that's not that horrible.

soxfan121 · Nov 7, 2015

TESTING SOMETHING

DO NOT REPLY

Super Nomario · Nov 7, 2015

BaseballJones said:
How would you like to be a SF fan right now, knowing that your team is committed to Kaepernick for 5 more years beyond 2015, and the guy just got benched? At least the Ravens, with a crazy contract for Flacco, have a guy that's won a Super Bowl.

What's the saying about winners writing the history books? Flacco won the Super Bowl against Kaepernick, but the 49ers came within 10 yards (or a holding call) of pulling it out. But it becomes "Flacco is a guy that's won a Super Bowl," and Kaepernick is a guy that didn't.

crystalline · Nov 7, 2015

SeoulSoxFan said:
No one has any scoop or info as to any post-retirement payback. It's pure speculation. Plus, I believe it is against the rules. It is accusing Brady and Kraft of cheating by circumventing the cap. I call Bullshit.

When billionaire owners back a salary cap so fans support the millionaire players taking less money than they could get on the open market, it's not cheating to circumvent the cap. It's the same old union/labor vs management fight. If players figure out a way to circumvent the cap to make more, the only losers are the owners. Personally, I fully support measures that take money out of the pockets of guys like Jerry Jones, and yes even Kraft. It's not cheating to circumvent the cap, just like it's not cheating if owners figure out a way to pay out less than the cap (Tim Thomas to the islanders comes to mind). It wasn't cheating when Washington and Dallas broke the owners' gentleman's cap agreement either- that should have been collusion by all rights if the NFLPA wasn't so weak.

Edit: apologies @SeoulSoxFan for the rant, this is a pet peeve of mine and I don't mean that to be an attack on you personally.

Devizier · Nov 7, 2015

Super Nomario said:
What's the saying about winners writing the history books? Flacco won the Super Bowl against Kaepernick, but the 49ers came within 10 yards (or a holding call) of pulling it out. But it becomes "Flacco is a guy that's won a Super Bowl," and Kaepernick is a guy that didn't.

It helps that Flacco went from being an above-average quarterback to a mediocre quarterback. The decline has been less striking. Kaepernick was, at one time, an excellent quarterback.

soxfan121 · Nov 7, 2015

Devizier said:
It helps that Flacco went from being an above-average quarterback to a mediocre quarterback. The decline has been less striking. Kaepernick was, at one time, an excellent quarterback.

When was this?

Reverend · Nov 8, 2015

A few weeks ago.

Things move fast these days, my man.

Curtis Pride · Nov 8, 2015

soxfan121 said:
When was this?

This is probably his best game: Sept. 8, 2013 against the Packers

Dollar · Nov 8, 2015

He wasn't so bad here either...

soxfan121 · Nov 8, 2015

Thanks for the boxscores. But at neither of those moments in time was Kaepernick an "excellent" quarterback, especially in comparison to Flacco, who also experienced a nice run of statistical success in the same relative time frame.

Flacco has been dogged for years about the "elite" tag, and while that's largely worthless, it does reflect that Flacco was, at one point, viewed by some as better than above average. I doubt you can find anything that labels Kaepernick as "excellent" without the word "potential" preceding or trailing in the same sentence.

Further, I still think Kaepernick is a good (or potentially good) quarterback in this league. The shitshow of an offensive scheme being run in 49erville isn't helping. The OC - Geep Chryst, I shit you not - has proven he has no fucking idea what Kaepernick does well OR how to use his skills within the "Geep Chryst System". That my friends, is the hallmark of a shitty coach - when he takes a player who every one agrees has talent and proceeds to piledrive all that potential into a benchwarmer in less than a season.

Chryst has used a ton of max protect this season, to get Kapernick to stay in the pocket. That's stupid. First, it's fewer receivers out in the pattern. Second, it limits his reads. Third, it makes clear he can't leave the pocket....which removes much of the potential for "magic" from his game and forces Kaepernick's square peg skills into a round hole.

San Francisco also has an offensive line featuring Jordan Devey. Who remembers an actual elite quarterback looking less-than-that behind Devey's "blocking"? Losing 3/5ths of their OL from last year, changing the run scheme (GJGE, Geep!) and swapping out the dependable Frank Gore for the hit-or-miss talents of Carlos Hyde (more dynamic, less reliable carry-to-carry) has all factored into Kapernick's "decline".

But really, the blame should all go to Geep Chryst, Jim Tomsula and Trent Baalke. AJ Jenkins is as big a bust as there is in the NFL over the last decade. The rest of the recent drafts have, kindly, sucked. There is far less talent on this roster, offensively and defensively, now than there used to be, largely because Baalke has fucked up several consecutive drafts. Tomsula clearly doesn't know his ass from his elbow. And Chryst has decided to take all the "good" things about Kaepernick and banish them from the playbook, instead trying to make him a 5-and-7-step drop pocket passer with only three receivers, one of whom is running a no-frills go route on every snap.

So...no. I don't think Kaepernick has ever been an excellent quarterback. But I also don't think it's his fault, and I don't think he sucks this badly. When a player with potential suddenly appears to suck, look first for injury and second for coaching stupidity. Geep Chryst should be crucified for what he's done to Kaepernick this season. He's turned an guy with above average potential into a benchwarmer. And when Blaine Gabbert gets destroyed running Chryst's "system" today, maybe people will start to notice it isn't all Colin's fault.

wutang112878 · Nov 9, 2015

Between the new QB contracts like Rivers and Eli setting the market even higher and Brady's incredible playl.... I'm starting to get the feeling that assuming he continues to play at this level he would be willing to take less than market as he always has but I dont think he is taking the type of discount he just gave us in his most recent deal. It will be interesting to see how that plays out in terms of possibly affecting Bill's decision making at the QB position and how it would affect our cap situation. Fortunately with the estimated cap growth hopefully this isnt too difficult to absorb.

Quarterback Contracts

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