I think the coaches surrounded Mac with were absolutely abominable. I’m not a Mac fan but I have to question whether that group could raise the floor for any QB
R1/3: Drake Maye QB UNC
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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McDaniels and Bill O'Brien both have pretty good track records coaching offenses. Blame 80% on the player, 15% on the supporting cast, and 5% on the Matt Patricia coaching experience.
FWIW, Ben Solak of the Ringer with an optimistic outlook on Drake Maye starting year 1 in the "Zag" portion of this article: https://www.theringer.com/nfl-draft/2024/4/28/24143622/the-nfl-hot-read-why-did-offense-dominate-the-2024-nfl-draft
Polk and Baker win downfield in different ways—Polk with elevation and adjustment, Baker with runaway speed—but both are huge downfield winners. The potential marriage between Maye, Polk, and Baker is encouraging to project.
So the Patriots did well to build around their young quarterback (I also love Jaheim Bell in the seventh round, a uniquely gifted YAC athlete for the tight end position). But many evaluators considered Maye predraft as a quarterback who would benefit from sitting for at least a season, and that advice continued when he landed on the shaky Patriots roster behind veteran QB Jacoby Brissett.
I disagree. I think you can play Maye right away in New England, and it won’t break him. In fact, I think he can be a pretty good rookie.
While I agree that terrible environments can hamper the development of young passers, the poor state of the Patriots’ offensive roster was exaggerated before the draft. Four of the five starters on the offensive line are set and solid, with two above-average starters in RT Michael Onwenu and RG Sidy Sow, who grew nicely into his role as a rookie last season. Neither Hunter Henry at tight end nor Bourne at wide receiver (the latter of whom is coming off of an ACL injury) is a particularly sexy player, but both would be starters on most NFL teams. Rhamondre Stevenson is a great receiving back. The Patriots were below average offensively last year, but they weren’t terrible.
Throw in the new pieces, and there’s enough there to incubate a young quarterback. And you know what? We overrate the importance of that, too. I watched Trevor Lawrence’s rookie season in Jacksonville, when he threw 220 targets to Marvin Jones and Laviska Shenault Jr.—yes, the Jags were awful, but Lawrence was clearly good. In Houston last year, nobody was singing the praises of Nico Collins and Dalton Schultz and Bobby Slowik until C.J. Stroud walked in and brought everyone’s game up a few notches. Maye has the sort of talent that can shine through a poor supporting cast and elevate a below-average one.
I loved Maye as a prospect. Would I have preferred if he landed in Minnesota? Sure. But I disagree with the idea that he’s too raw to start, and I disagree with the idea that the Patriots offense isn’t good enough around him. Will they finish first in points scored? Probably not. But if Maye needs to learn by doing, then throw him out there and let him do. I bet the results will be far better than anyone expects.
Polk and Baker win downfield in different ways—Polk with elevation and adjustment, Baker with runaway speed—but both are huge downfield winners. The potential marriage between Maye, Polk, and Baker is encouraging to project.
So the Patriots did well to build around their young quarterback (I also love Jaheim Bell in the seventh round, a uniquely gifted YAC athlete for the tight end position). But many evaluators considered Maye predraft as a quarterback who would benefit from sitting for at least a season, and that advice continued when he landed on the shaky Patriots roster behind veteran QB Jacoby Brissett.
I disagree. I think you can play Maye right away in New England, and it won’t break him. In fact, I think he can be a pretty good rookie.
While I agree that terrible environments can hamper the development of young passers, the poor state of the Patriots’ offensive roster was exaggerated before the draft. Four of the five starters on the offensive line are set and solid, with two above-average starters in RT Michael Onwenu and RG Sidy Sow, who grew nicely into his role as a rookie last season. Neither Hunter Henry at tight end nor Bourne at wide receiver (the latter of whom is coming off of an ACL injury) is a particularly sexy player, but both would be starters on most NFL teams. Rhamondre Stevenson is a great receiving back. The Patriots were below average offensively last year, but they weren’t terrible.
Throw in the new pieces, and there’s enough there to incubate a young quarterback. And you know what? We overrate the importance of that, too. I watched Trevor Lawrence’s rookie season in Jacksonville, when he threw 220 targets to Marvin Jones and Laviska Shenault Jr.—yes, the Jags were awful, but Lawrence was clearly good. In Houston last year, nobody was singing the praises of Nico Collins and Dalton Schultz and Bobby Slowik until C.J. Stroud walked in and brought everyone’s game up a few notches. Maye has the sort of talent that can shine through a poor supporting cast and elevate a below-average one.
I loved Maye as a prospect. Would I have preferred if he landed in Minnesota? Sure. But I disagree with the idea that he’s too raw to start, and I disagree with the idea that the Patriots offense isn’t good enough around him. Will they finish first in points scored? Probably not. But if Maye needs to learn by doing, then throw him out there and let him do. I bet the results will be far better than anyone expects.
This could go in the Maye, Baker, or Polk thread, so I'll put it here. Good stuff from Perry
https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/jalynn-polk-javon-baker-drake-maye-patriots-offense/608430/
https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/jalynn-polk-javon-baker-drake-maye-patriots-offense/608430/
But not those guys that jump back first on a plywood table across two sawhorses though, right?
It's the thing Brady did better than anyone and what allowed him to never be counted out in games. If you can attack the intermediate middle of the field, they can't play zone against you and force you to go 10 plays to score. You can get chunks everywhere.
Another other element that made this work was that Brady had (has...) a) a supernatural ability to understand what the defense is doing and which WR will be open on a play, and b) a supernatural ability to understand when to take a 20ish yard shot and when to dump it underneath and let Faulk/Vereen/White etc. run with it.
No QB is ever going to be Tom Brady, so all of these comparisons are inherently unfair. But putting aside the GOAT, Maye has the special arm that will allow him to be just about anything as an NFL QB. The question is whether he can process what's happening and make the right decision with the right mechanics 90+% of the time, week after week, with massive guys in his face and elite DBs in coverage in howling winds and freezing conditions.
Of course we won't know the answer until he gets into games, but I'm just thrilled to once again have a QB on the roster who has that level of potential.
I think the pendulum on Drake Maye has really swung too far on the opposite side to "he's a mess and his footwork is terrible." So long as he can learn the playbook and isn't totally overwhelmed at the line ("seeing ghosts") I'd be looking at starting him sooner rather than later.
Agreed. This isn’t a playoff team this year. They will be bad-ish. I’m fine letting him watch from the sidelines for a bit, if he needs it, but I’m also fine starting him Week 1, if he looks like he might be able to hang. We know there will likely be turnovers and WTF throws but the upside here is real and we need to see what we’ve got. I love Brissett but I hope I don’t have to watch too much of him this year.
I went back and looked at his stats. Pretty meh. He started more than 10 games in 3 seasons.
- 2017: Rating 81.7; 58.8% reception rate; 3098 yds; 13:7 TD:INT.
- 2019: 88.0; 60.9%; 2942; 18:6
- 2022: 89.9; 64.0%, 2608; 12:6
- Career: 85.2; 61.3%; 51:23
- 4 comebacks, 5 game-winning drives
- 200-260 yards rushing in his 3 starting seasons.
Seems like the optimal approach is to have an open competition at training camp, a-la the 2021 bake-off between Cam and Mac. Mac showed himself ready to be a starter of at least the caliber of the washed (at the time) Cam. If Maye isn't ready, then the (hopefully) short Jacoby era can begin.
Certainly don't want to risk the chance of Maye getting hurt, which is a distinct possibility if he isn't ready to read NFL defenses.
Certainly don't want to risk the chance of Maye getting hurt, which is a distinct possibility if he isn't ready to read NFL defenses.
The obvious difference between the two is that Mac passes to the other team a lot (career INT 2.8%) and Jacoby doesn't (career INT 1.4%).
whoops, yeah an extra 9 in there
yeah, he actually I think also takes more sacks. But yeah one of the things that makes Jacoby such a good backup/fringe starter is... you don't want those guys getting too aggressive and throwing picks. When you're going to that guy you are generally asking him to keep you in games, and not lose them, as opposed to expensive top end starters who are expected to WIN you games and pick up everyone else.
And the underlying issue here is... Mac Jones shouldn't be in a position to be compared to a fringe backup/starter. Brissett is what he is, while Mac was expected to be much more than that and somehow he's less.
I legit don't understand NFL trades. SF traded #12, a 2022 first and third rounder and a 2023 first rounder for the #3 pick in 2021. I would have expected a similar package from the Vikings to move from #11 to #3. To find they wanted some mid-round selections on top of that is crazy.
11, 23 and a 2025 first is a better return that what SF traded.
2 1st round picks this year and a first next year is better than 3 firsts over 3 years even included the 3rd rounder in what would be 25 in this case.
Thank you for posting that. I am so grateful we have Reiss covering the Patriots. He is a palete cleanser from many of the Boston area media / talking heads.
This part of the article interested me, especially the bolded.
"Van Pelt and Maye watched old tape of Aaron Rodgers from the Packers, when Van Pelt had been on the Green Bay coaching staff. Van Pelt detailed to Maye the "outside zone scheme" he plans to run in New England, and some of the play-action elements that can complement it, using Rodgers as an example. "
I don't know a darn thing about outside zone scheme and wondered if that particular plan of attack changes the matrix of what a traditional left tackle needs to be or have certain traits and skill sets?
I did a quick google and it looks like there are plenty of videos on the subject, so I am excited to do some research over the next few days as I will have the time. We have a great number of x and o geeks here and wondered their thoughts. Is this a shift from what the Patriots have been doing?
Was literally about to post that same snippet. And agreed that Reiss's coverage is a breath of fresh air from the breathless and relentlessly negative coverage of the team.
There's a great, detailed breakdown from Lazar (the most film heavy of the Patriots Unfiltered reporters) of AVP's "outside zone scheme" and how it has adapted over time.
Because things always come full circle, it seems outside zone schemes have changed... in part because of Bill Belichick and the Pats defensive scheme in SB 53 that showed how to beat them: https://www.patriots.com/news/film-review-how-will-the-patriots-offense-look-under-new-offensive-coordinator-alex-van-pelt
Amazing to think between him & Brady we had the 2 career NFL yardage leaders in the same QB room...
Anyway, yes, as you and others said, If you're going to be a "game manager" (TM) with a so-so arm, at a minimum you can't throw the ball to the other team. Better to eat it, take the sack, and punt.
