Race and the Red Sox

uk_sox_fan

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I addressed this in post 344. I haven't forgotten a thing. As for Ortiz, this issue centers on African Americans.
Wait - I don't get this. In what way is David Ortiz not an African American? His ancestry is African. He's an American. Is he somehow disqualified because his native tongue was not English? Are there new rules to this? Where's it all written down?
 

RetractableRoof

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Mo Vaughn sucks because he had the gall to say a state trooper lied. Boston isn't racist, it's just a few people, and it hurts your feelings. You were never aware of how well-spoken Chris Young was. People of color have committed racists acts (against you?). You would t acknowledge that some people have become empowered since the election and are now ballsier in their racism. You win the thread.
Yes to Mo Vaughn, single car accident involving alcohol and he defamed a state trooper. Yep, don't want to name a street after him.

Agreed, as Young said outliers shouldn't be allowed to damage the reputation of a whole city, organization, or fan base. It doesn't hurt my feelings, but I do find it lame.

No, I don't follow twitter except as posted here, so no I've never heard Young talk about subjects outside of baseball. I'd like to hear more from him.

People of color (outliers) have also seemed to have upped their racist game since the election - and others don't want to acknowledge that. (I was asked to take election talk to PM though.)

I'm not trying to win the thread, but I don't see how any of these statements are terribly out of line though. As for winning, I was previously 0-147, so that would be a legendary comeback. Maybe it's the voiume of posts? :D
 

richgedman'sghost

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And maybe 50 percent stood. And that's probably being generous. You could really hear the boos on MLB Network.
Are you at Fenway tonight? If so, I'll defer to your judgement. On NESN it sure seemed more like 80 to 85 percent stood. Otherwise, I prefer to hear from a 1st hand account and someone less biased...
 

JohntheBaptist

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So, by reading this post, can we make the assumption that you have spoken up every single time you have personally witnessed racism, bigotry, and any other form of discrimination in public and in private?
No. The times I haven't I've been ashamed of myself and vowed to do better. When I didn't, I was wrong, and it was because I found some lame excuse not to. It made the situation worse when I didn't do it, and if you were there and called me on it, you'd be right. I'm trying to do it now, and the best some have in response is some variation of "self-righteous!"

If you want to say "hey I was with my kid, and I wish I'd set an example despite it being hard but I didn't and I should do better," I understand that.

I was responding to a specific post. The guy that calls me Captain America for suggesting "it's hard" isn't a great reason for no one to say anything is who I was responding to. Make this about me all you want, I would hope the concept that speaking up about something like this when you hear it wouldn't offend one's sensibilities but I have to be careful about virtue signaling too much.

edit--from this post can we make the assumption that you think what I've said or done changes my point? Because since you responded I'm sure you read the entire thread of back-and-forth, so maybe you can more clearly articulate your issue with my point?
 
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JohntheBaptist

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Why don't we all meet at a bar, have a few drinks and tell each other all the things we've done/said in our past. We can all group think and agree which labels we should add to our linked in profiles, our resume, and how we should be labeled going forward. Any of us that complain about carrying those labels for the rest of our lives we can simply dismiss with "boo hoo". It will be fun :)

Or we can recognize that some things are actually in the past, and work on improving things going forward without simply insulting a whole city for the actions of a few outliers. Boo hoo indeed.
I have no idea what your point is. The city of Boston is not the victim here.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Would a racist person really care that David Ortiz isn't African American? Do they really compartmentalize like that?
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Tyrone Biggums...You keep on saying that nobody did anything to stop the racist yelling. How do you know? Do you have the call logs of the Red Sox Security Staff? As has been mentioned numerous times, there were about 15 to 20 ejections last night. So somebody had to complain. Suppose the fans called or texted the advertised number or otherwise alerted security? Would you have a problem then? My main issue with you is that you have stated numerous times in this thread that not a single fan spoke up or reported the incident when we know that is untrue. I think your claim is untrue and is painting with too broad a brush. Howevrer, one racial incident is one too many and I am not defending the actions of the racists in any way shape or form.
Yes but show me where those ejections were for this? How many ejections do they have per game? That sounds normal for the bleachers. No one did report it. You might want to keep your head in the sand and have the whole hear nothing know nothing approach but however this is very real and needs to be acknowledged. Every single caller on the radio today claimed they heard nothing what so ever at the work...so much mystery...disgusting
 

lexrageorge

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Yes but show me where those ejections were for this? How many ejections do they have per game? That sounds normal for the bleachers. No one did report it. You might want to keep your head in the sand and have the whole hear nothing know nothing approach but however this is very real and needs to be acknowledged. Every single caller on the radio today claimed they heard nothing what so ever at the work...so much mystery...disgusting
You keep saying the bolded, but how do you know this? Has anyone else claimed this besides yourself?

The number of ejections was already noted to be more than normal for a given Monday night.
 

GammonsSpecialPerson

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Wait - I don't get this. In what way is David Ortiz not an African American? His ancestry is African. He's an American. Is he somehow disqualified because his native tongue was not English? Are there new rules to this? Where's it all written down?
Ortiz became an American citizen in 2008, but he is technically of Dominican ancestry. For example, he would not be counted among the 62 African-American players in the majors; he would instead be counted among the (unknown number) of Dominican or Latin American players. By contrast, Mookie Betts - born and raised in Nashville, TN - is an African-American. The distinction may seem a bit arcane but it is important to some African Americans and Dominicans. I have no idea if Ortiz believes it important.

It is not all written down, which is why it can be very confusing for non-Americans. And yeah, there's a bunch of rules, but that's mostly because we Americans are rather bonkers for creating distinctions without differences. Hope that helps.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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You keep saying the bolded, but how do you know this? Has anyone else claimed this besides yourself?

The number of ejections was already noted to be more than normal for a given Monday night.
Because it would have came out by now and the Sox would have acknowledged it.
 

richgedman'sghost

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I don't get or listen to Boston Sportsradio so I have to take your word for what was said on the radio shows. What do you think the ejections were for? You keep saying that nobody reported anything. All I'm asking is proof that nobody did anything. As mentioned upthread, the average number of ejections per game is about 5 so 15 to 20 were a big increase. Where did I state that I support the racists or have my head in the sand. I have repeatedly condemmed such racist behaviour. You honestly believe there was not a single call text or complaint last night? That is unbelievable..
 

Sportsbstn

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Not sure where this idea is coming from that Sox players heard the comments last night, that's not what Kennedy said.

Hopefully they catch the person or a few people who made the comments and ban them from the park. Let's not crucify thousands though for the sake of these jackasses.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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I don't get or listen to Boston Sportsradio so I have to take your word for what was said on the radio shows. What do you think the ejections were for? You keep saying that nobody reported anything. All I'm asking is proof that nobody did anything. As mentioned upthread, the average number of ejections per game is about 5 so 15 to 20 were a big increase. Where did I state that I support the racists or have my head in the sand. I have repeatedly condemmed such racist behaviour. You honestly believe there was not a single call text or complaint last night? That is unbelievable..
I find it unbelievable that absolutely no one heard a friggin thing. But that definitely would have came out today. Could be for a lot of things. Fighting drinking pissing on the wall in section 41...seen that one before in person. Could be for heckling no one knows. But one thing for sure is that racism is still a problem everywhere especially after that miserable POS T***P got elected.
 

RetractableRoof

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I have no idea what your point is. The city of Boston is not the victim here.
Actually, if (stress if) these racist outlier scum from last night are causing everyone in Boston to be viewed as racist - then yes the city of Boston is a secondary victim. It's absurd to say its not.

If one wants to say they are fine with the city being viewed as racist in order for growth to occur, acceptable cost kind of thing, then so be it. I don't find it acceptable, but others might. But one can't say Boston isn't being damaged by the characterization. And by extension anything associated with Boston as well - its teams, its companies, its universities, all of its people, etc.
 

AB in DC

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This popped up in my Facebook feed today. Start about halfway down and scroll down from there to the cute little brain being surrounded by a moat. Seeing a lot of that today.
 

HriniakPosterChild

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If someone is detracting from your enjoyment of the game, please call the security hotline at 617-226-6411, which is printed on the back of your ticket

Fenway code of conduct
In Seattle, the M's put a similar announcement on the big screen before the game with the Safeco Field Fan Helpline number. The number ((206) 861-2200) is in my Contacts. I've never used it.

We can call or text. Texting is a little less conspicuous, so I think that's good to offer that way to report.
 

JohntheBaptist

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Actually, if (stress if) these racist outlier scum from last night are causing everyone in Boston to be viewed as racist - then yes the city of Boston is a secondary victim. It's absurd to say its not.

If one wants to say they are fine with the city being viewed as racist in order for growth to occur, acceptable cost kind of thing, then so be it. I don't find it acceptable, but others might. But one can't say Boston isn't being damaged by the characterization. And by extension anything associated with Boston as well - its teams, its companies, its universities, all of its people, etc.
What happened last night is not causing "everyone in Boston to be viewed as racist." That's an infantile characterization. To the extent that this event has caused reactions, the ones preoccupied with how Boston is going to come off in the wake of it are pretty fabulously reinforcing the view they're desperately trying to avoid. You have people in here desperately trying to find a way that the people who have experienced it are lying or fabricating or exaggerating.

To be clear--I don't really think a "city" can be "racist" in the way it is often thrown around. Maybe it's just me, but not sure that's the thing that's got me worried or upset about what went down last night. When there's long been a culture of it, and another example is added to the pile, I'm not exactly worried about white guys having to hear about how the place with a poor history of race relations had another blip on CNN.

We can be done with this now. I get you think this is a big part of the story. I think that's absurd and a good way to dance past the larger issue. Here we are.
 

RetractableRoof

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What happened last night is not causing "everyone in Boston to be viewed as racist." That's an infantile characterization. To the extent that this event has caused reactions, the ones preoccupied with how Boston is going to come off in the wake of it are pretty fabulously reinforcing the view they're desperately trying to avoid. You have people in here desperately trying to find a way that the people who have experienced it are lying or fabricating or exaggerating.

To be clear--I don't really think a "city" can be "racist" in the way it is often thrown around. Maybe it's just me, but not sure that's the thing that's got me worried or upset about what went down last night. When there's long been a culture of it, and another example is added to the pile, I'm not exactly worried about white guys having to hear about how the place with a poor history of race relations had another blip on CNN.

We can be done with this now. I get you think this is a big part of the story. I think that's absurd and a good way to dance past the larger issue. Here we are.
The national story is that "Boston is racist". I've received emails from other parts of the country asking me (perhaps tongue in cheek) "what the hell is in the water in Boston?" and other similar questions.

Asking that the race issue be talked about constructively without blaming entire groups of people for the actions of a few is not infantile - it is actually reasonable, if not difficult to accomplish.

Edit: The bolded is also a problematic statement to me. Your statement suggests that whites are the only ones concerned about the reputation of their city. I've had conversations with many people who want this label to go away, and they aren't all white. To be honest, I'm not sure why this statement on its own wouldn't be considered racist.
 
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HriniakPosterChild

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Well, resident genius and claimed attendee bigchara33 says he heard "nigga" thrown around. But, you know, not in the racist way.
Not in direct response to your post, but does our witness know if it was pronounced the way many New Englanders pronounce Fall River or Worcester? (Fall Rivah? Woos-tah?)

Why not just call it 4 Fenway Park Way? The Mays thing I get where you're coming from but it could come off as "pandering". But I agree the Yawkey name should have been taken down years ago. The sooner we cleanse the past of that racist the better off...
4 Jersey Street sounds okay to me, as well as having some historical basis.
 

JohntheBaptist

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The national story is that "Boston is racist". I've received emails from other parts of the country asking me (perhaps tongue in cheek) "what the hell is in the water in Boston?" and other similar questions.

Asking that the race issue be talked about constructively without blaming entire groups of people for the actions of a few is not infantile - it is actually reasonable, if not difficult to accomplish.
Anyone that is actually blaming the entire city of Boston is obviously not to be taken seriously. I've seen plenty of the national story coverage, and none of it came close to "Boston is racist." It has, in places, understandably noted Boston's history, and how this is another ugly incident in that history. If that makes you uncomfortable, I'll say it again: boo-fucking-hoo.

I said that your characterization--that the incident causing "everyone in Boston to be viewed as racist"--was infantile. It is infantile because it isn't true, and is an attempt to cast yourself as a victim.

Hearing this story and obsessing over how Boston is being portrayed in the media is not a constructive discussion of the incident. Hearing this story and aggressively splitting hairs over whether "Boston is racist" means "everyone in Boston is viewed as racist" as opposed to, "this city has had a history of racial issues" is the exact opposite of a constructive discussion. You are not the aggrieved party. This kind of thing brings negative attention.
 

BigSoxFan

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No. The times I haven't I've been ashamed of myself and vowed to do better. When I didn't, I was wrong, and it was because I found some lame excuse not to. It made the situation worse when I didn't do it, and if you were there and called me on it, you'd be right. I'm trying to do it now, and the best some have in response is some variation of "self-righteous!"

If you want to say "hey I was with my kid, and I wish I'd set an example despite it being hard but I didn't and I should do better," I understand that.

I was responding to a specific post. The guy that calls me Captain America for suggesting "it's hard" isn't a great reason for no one to say anything is who I was responding to. Make this about me all you want, I would hope the concept that speaking up about something like this when you hear it wouldn't offend one's sensibilities but I have to be careful about virtue signaling too much.

edit--from this post can we make the assumption that you think what I've said or done changes my point? Because since you responded I'm sure you read the entire thread of back-and-forth, so maybe you can more clearly articulate your issue with my point?
I don't really have an issue with your point and find myself somewhere in the middle of you both. To your point, our society absolutely needs to do a better job of stamping this stuff out. We all need to be better and more vigilant. But I also agree that sometimes circumstances (being with your kid, for example) make it more difficult to do the "right thing". That's never a good excuse but it is there.

This isn't about me either but I'll give a personal example when I was living in the North End. I was walking down Hanover street and some old white guy in those adidas pants was dropping n bombs at a black delivery driver. I'm not sure why but he may have dinged his vehicle or something. Regardless, this old guy had a couple big dudes near him and they were all kind of joining in and the poor driver was horrified. I winced and wanted to step in but also didn't want to get on the bad side of those guys. So I wussed out but regretted it.

I guess my point is that sometimes it's not so cut-and-dry. Now, I think there is always something that can be done. At a minimum, I should have gone to the driver after it dissipated and check to see how he was doing so you're absolutely correct that there is always something that can be done whether or not you choose to be confrontational whether it be through educating your kids, reassuring the abused, etc.

End of the day, I think society has made some real progress in this department but there is clearly more work to be done.
 

yep

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Wait - I don't get this. In what way is David Ortiz not an African American? His ancestry is African. He's an American. Is he somehow disqualified because his native tongue was not English? Are there new rules to this? Where's it all written down?
There is a lot rolled up here, but assuming you are serious, race/ethnicity don't work the way you seem to think they do. Race, as it is typically defined in 2017, is not a thing that you can look up by comparing a patch of skin to a color-chart.

Haitians, Somalis, Dominicans, and descendants of American slaves do not necessarily consider themselves to be of the same race/ethnicity, even if their skin-color looks the same. Much as "white" might cover Scandinavians, Russians, and Afghan, you could be talking about vastly different socio-cultural backgrounds.

In Latin America especially, the relationship between race and skin color is a lot more complicated. Similarly, "African American" most typically refers to human beings who are descended from slaves. A white person born in, say, Nigeria or South Africa can make a lot of enemies very quickly by (correctly) referring to themselves as african-american.

If you are a human being, then your ancestors were African. By that measure, every American is an African-American. But Americans whose grandparents and great-grandparents were born in, say, Ireland, tend to call themselves Irish-Americans, even if their great-great grandparents were Romans, Gauls, Vikings, or some such. Their cultural and historical ancestry is Irish, even if their hair is not red.

Pale skin and red hair are more common in Ireland than they are in many other places, but there are also pale red-heads in Scotland, Italy, Iran, and plenty other parts of the world. You can't test for "Irishness" with a color chart, and red hair does not make an Afghani Irish.

If you want rules and charts to determine which race people fall into, then you are probably going to be disappointed.
 

JohntheBaptist

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I don't really have an issue with your point and find myself somewhere in the middle of you both. To your point, our society absolutely needs to do a better job of stamping this stuff out. We all need to be better and more vigilant. But I also agree that sometimes circumstances (being with your kid, for example) make it more difficult to do the "right thing". That's never a good excuse but it is there.
Right, and it seems like we're on the same page. If you go back and look at what I was replying to both times--it was something specific. HoodieSleeves said he didn't blame anyone not wanting to do the hard thing for the "guy making millions of dollars" because he's being called "bad words." If your point is "sorry, sometimes it's hard," I don't buy that. We all fall short, but preemptively shrugging your shoulders and justifying it with "making millions" and just "bad words" is what I was responding to. The other guy took that response as an opportunity to reiterate that it's "hard" and that I'm Captain America for saying otherwise.

I get it's hard sometimes. There are many scenarios when you'd not say anything. What if Mr. Racist is waving a gun around? Etc. My point was that finding yourself looking for a reason not to say anything and justifying it is a big negative. It is much, much harder to have it directed at you than to say something for one, so I think that's worth considering too.

But again, sounds like you and I agree and are on the same page. Really the only way that this stuff doesn't snowball is if we're louder, more annoying, and shame it when we hear it. Prevaricating and excusing it and shifting blame gets under my skin, obviously. I'll give it a rest now though I promise :)
 

HriniakPosterChild

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There is a lot rolled up here, but assuming you are serious, race/ethnicity don't work the way you seem to think they do. Race, as it is typically defined in 2017, is not a thing that you can look up by comparing a patch of skin to a color-chart.

Haitians, Somalis, Dominicans, and descendants of American slaves do not necessarily consider themselves to be of the same race/ethnicity, even if their skin-color looks the same.
How would an immigrant from Haiti, Somali or the Dominican have been treated if he had drunk from a "WHITE ONLY" water fountain in Jackson, Mississippi, in 1962?

(I realize that you qualified your point by referencing 2017, but I think Americans have a pretty baked in race consciousness, even now.)
 

Infield Infidel

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How would an immigrant from Haiti, Somali or the Dominican have been treated if he had drunk from a "WHITE ONLY" water fountain in Jackson, Mississippi, in 1962?

(I realize that you qualified your point by referencing 2017, but I think Americans have a pretty baked in race consciousness, even now.)
There were a number of dark-skinned Latino baseball players pre-Jackie Robinson. During Spring training in Florida, they were vouched for by team administrators; some establishments served them because they were foreign, other establishments denied service because they were black.
 

FormerLurker

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How would an immigrant from Haiti, Somali or the Dominican have been treated if he had drunk from a "WHITE ONLY" water fountain in Jackson, Mississippi, in 1962?

(I realize that you qualified your point by referencing 2017, but I think Americans have a pretty baked in race consciousness, even now.)
I think the related but more directly relevant question is "Could David Ortiz have played in the major leagues before 1947?" I think that the answer to that is clearly no. My understanding is that some of the handful of Cubans who played in that era were probably of mixed ancestry but were allowed through if they were light-skinned enough. But more clearly African-descended Cuban players such as Martín Dihigo and Luis Tiant Sr. were excluded.

But it is true that in later years, it seems as if Luis Tiant (Jr.) was never considered black/African-American in quite the same way as Jim Rice was. Those who remember that era can confirm or deny that assertion.
 

HriniakPosterChild

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There were a number of dark-skinned Latino baseball players pre-Jackie Robinson. During Spring training in Florida, they were vouched for by team administrators; some establishments served them because they were foreign, other establishments denied service because they were black.
Your point is well taken, but when the Klansmen took exception to his choice of drinking fountain, my hypothetical dark-skinned immigrant wouldn't have had a note from his employer to save his bacon.
 

Infield Infidel

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Your point is well taken, but when the Klansmen took exception to his choice of drinking fountain, my hypothetical dark-skinned immigrant wouldn't have had a note from his employer to save his bacon.
To be more clear, they wouldn't have gone anywhere without teammates or staff.

Edit: if denied service they may have also had to eat and lodge at different establishments, perhaps ascertained from the Green Book https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Motorist_Green_Book?wprov=sfla , which listed places to eat/lodge that welcomed darker skinned people.
 
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Jinhocho

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I keep reading that people are surprised by this. I havent been gone from Boston that long that people can legit be surprised that some guy in the bleachers yelled the n bomb at people on the field.
 

BigChara33

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I wanted to clarify my post from last night. The uneducated comment I made was actually directed towards the people in the row behind us. Whether they were white or light skinned hispanic is moot. I was with my friends, who invited me at the last minute. My friends are hispanic (both are dark skinned, like David Ortiz. I am white.) All we heard behind us was 'Yo My n**** this' and ending every sentence with 'my n****.' This is where i heard it 100x from. This was not directed towards anyone, it was talk between the group. I've teased my friends about talking like this before, and they don't talk like that infront of me. We actually had a joking side bet about how many times it would be said (I gave an over/under of 200.) If they had heard someone drop a real 'N' bomb, you can believe that there would have been no going to security. There would have been a brawl.

None of us heard this comment and we were only a few rows back in center field.

According to Sam Kennedy when he came on the air on 104.9 tonight, Adam Jones told him today it was only one person who said it. Adam Jones stated there was 59-60 people ejected last night. There was only 34.

I was there. My friends would have taken exception to it were there. None of us heard it. You can take my 2 posts for what it's worth.

The Red Sox organization issuing an apology is what any corporation would do in this day and age. That is not admitting to facts.

I can't say I was there for the whole time, neither were my friends. Bathroom breaks are a must when drinking watered down $10 beers.
 
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nothumb

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I'm curious to hear more about how white kids calling each other "my n*gga" is somehow not the n-word and is not offensive / worth complaining about.

Funny how the people who minimize racism are also usually the ones who are supposedly ready to fight a "real racist" at the drop of a hat. But never seem to do it.
 

BigChara33

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I'm curious to hear more about how white kids calling each other "my n*gga" is somehow not the n-word and is not offensive / worth complaining about.

Funny how the people who minimize racism are also usually the ones who are supposedly ready to fight a "real racist" at the drop of a hat. But never seem to do it.
Again, I stated they were either light skinned hispanic or white. If you've never spent a lot of time in Lawrence, or anytime in the Essex County Correctional Facility, then I can see you not understanding. The word 'n****' is said atleast 10x more than any other word in these places. Despite a very low black population, this word is used by most in the beginning and end of every sentence.

I can understand if you've never been exposed to this to have an outside opinion. Growing up in a predominately white suburban town in MA, I was surprised to hear this as well. But it is what it is.
 

luckiestman

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I'm curious to hear more about how white kids calling each other "my n*gga" is somehow not the n-word and is not offensive / worth complaining about.
That's a real thing. In lovely Fall River, MA, you can regularly hear white kids calling each other nigga or my nigga.

You can google "white kids saying nigga" or " Latinos saying nigga" Just see for yourself, the world is crazy.

http://hiphopdx.com/news/id.36828/title.ja-rule-addresses-use-of-n-word-by-white-people

“It’s Hip Hop, man,” Ja Rule said. “The kids listen to Hip Hop. They use the n-word. Point blank, period. There’s no way around it. You know what I mean? I’m at a concert the other day. Nothing but white kids at the concert. Metro Boomin is deejaying and shit, right? What does he throw on? ‘All day, nigga’…And he’s fading the ‘nigga’ part. And those white kids are singing that ‘nigga’ word like a mothafucka. You know what I’m saying? I’m up in the balcony dying laughing because I’m like ‘Yo, what do you expect them to do? What do you think they’re gonna do?’ To them it’s a song. They just singing a song, having fun. So, now what do you do? Not play that song when you have a white audience and you deejaying? I don’t know—I really don’t know how to combat this.”
 

nothumb

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Again, I stated they were either light skinned hispanic or white. If you've never spent a lot of time in Lawrence, or anytime in the Essex County Correctional Facility, then I can see you not understanding. The word 'n****' is said atleast 10x more than any other word in these places. Despite a very low black population, this word is used by most in the beginning and end of every sentence.

I can understand if you've never been exposed to this to have an outside opinion. Growing up in a predominately white suburban town in MA, I was surprised to hear this as well. But it is what it is.
I have worked in group homes and institutions for the last 15 years and have heard the n word more times than I could possibly count. At no point was it (or is it) ever acceptable for a white person to use it. Period. Full stop.
 

nothumb

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That's a real thing. In lovely Fall River, MA, you can regularly hear white kids calling each other nigga or my nigga.

You can google "white kids saying nigga" or " Latinos saying nigga" Just see for yourself, the world is crazy.

http://hiphopdx.com/news/id.36828/title.ja-rule-addresses-use-of-n-word-by-white-people

“It’s Hip Hop, man,” Ja Rule said. “The kids listen to Hip Hop. They use the n-word. Point blank, period. There’s no way around it. You know what I mean? I’m at a concert the other day. Nothing but white kids at the concert. Metro Boomin is deejaying and shit, right? What does he throw on? ‘All day, nigga’…And he’s fading the ‘nigga’ part. And those white kids are singing that ‘nigga’ word like a mothafucka. You know what I’m saying? I’m up in the balcony dying laughing because I’m like ‘Yo, what do you expect them to do? What do you think they’re gonna do?’ To them it’s a song. They just singing a song, having fun. So, now what do you do? Not play that song when you have a white audience and you deejaying? I don’t know—I really don’t know how to combat this.”
I know they say it. I'm saying it's not ok, and if white people say it around me, I tell them to cut it the fuck out. Every time.

And you'll forgive me if I don't look to noted critical race theorist Ja Rule for guidance on the matter.
 

luckiestman

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Jul 15, 2005
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I know they say it. I'm saying it's not ok, and if white people say it around me, I tell them to cut it the fuck out. Every time.

And you'll forgive me if I don't look to noted critical race theorist Ja Rule for guidance on the matter.
Ok sure, I'm not saying it's right.
 

dhappy42

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Oct 27, 2013
15,725
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One of the oldest rules of being a functional adult is that unwritten rules aren't rules, and appealing to them is generally nonsense.
Wrong thread, but... there are tons of unwritten rules in the real world, not just in baseball. And they're very, very real.
 

BigChara33

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May 2, 2017
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I have worked in group homes and institutions for the last 15 years and have heard the n word more times than I could possibly count. At no point was it (or is it) ever acceptable for a white person to use it. Period. Full stop.
No one ever said it was right. It's clearly accepted in these parts of the world. Also, only stating that 'white people' aren't supposed to use the word, clearly omitting the non-dark skinned Hispanics that I clearly mentioned, or anyone of non-african descent, is completely ignorant. In these areas, the word is completely accepted and is NEVER taken as racial.

I can honestly say, from personal experience, the word 'ni***' in some areas in MA, is used more commonly used than the words 'dude' or 'bro' in a white frat house.
 
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JohntheBaptist

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Do you think maybe if you heard it one of the hundreds may have been loud enough for Jones to hear?

Just so I'm clear, youre saying Jones made it up, or just that you didnt hear it?
 

BigChara33

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May 2, 2017
79
Do you think maybe if you heard it one of the hundreds may have been loud enough for Jones to hear?

Just so I'm clear, youre saying Jones made it up, or just that you didnt hear it?
I should have been more clear. I veered off subject a bit. I never heard the words directed at Adam Jones. The garbage I heard could not have been audible to Jones and was absolutely not directed towards him. I could hear it because it was a foot behind me.

Fans definitely heckled Jones. Racial slurs were not anything that was audible to me. I'll stand by what I said and I believe this was a pitiful racial card ploy by Adam Jones. He changed his story, stating that it was many fans to just one. If it was said and I was in the bathroom, then I stand corrected and I sincerely apologize.

Still, nobody has came forward and proved that what Jones said actually happened. Maybe he just didn't want to get plunked?
 

dhappy42

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Oct 27, 2013
15,725
Michigan
There are hundreds of fans sitting in the CF bleachers. If one or more racist assholes called Jones a n----- loud enough for Jones to hear it, then a lot of fans heard it too. And if it happened more than once, someone should have called for security to throw the asshole out.

Whether some friends in the stands "endearingly" called each other n---a is something else entirely and irrelevant to the racist heckling of Jones.
 

BigChara33

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May 2, 2017
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There are hundreds of fans sitting in the CF bleachers. If one or more racist assholes called Jones a n----- loud enough for Jones to hear it, then a lot of fans heard it too. And if it happened more than once, someone should have called for security to throw the asshole out.

Whether some friends in the stands "endearingly" called each other n---a is something else entirely and irrelevant to the racist heckling of Jones.
That's why I said it was moot and irrelevant.

Adam Jones has spit in the face of all Bostonian's. Like I said before, he seems to be pulling the race card, again.
 

Reverend

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I should have been more clear. I veered off subject a bit. I never heard the words directed at Adam Jones. The garbage I heard could not have been audible to Jones and was absolutely not directed towards him. I could hear it because it was a foot behind me.

Fans definitely heckled Jones. Racial slurs were not anything that was audible to me. I'll stand by what I said and I believe this was a pitiful racial card ploy by Adam Jones. He changed his story, stating that it was many fans to just one. If it was said and I was in the bathroom, then I stand corrected and I sincerely apologize.

Still, nobody has came forward and proved that what Jones said actually happened. Maybe he just didn't want to get plunked?
Has it occurred to you that the offender wasn't sitting in CF?

Per the NYDaily News:
Boston police say a fan at Fenway Park threw a bag of peanuts at the Baltimore Orioles' dugout — not at Orioles center fielder Adam Jones — and hit a police officer, not Jones.

That's the latest sequence of events from Boston police Lt. Mike McCarthy.

McCarthy says the unidentified male fan was removed after throwing the peanuts and striking an officer posted near the visitors' dugout.
What is it about race stuff that makes some people suddenly make it all about themselves? Nobody cares what you personally heard as it has no bearing on what did or did not happen on the other side of the ballpark from you.
 

BigChara33

New Member
May 2, 2017
79
Has it occurred to you that the offender wasn't sitting in CF?

Per the NYDaily News:


What is it about race stuff that makes some people suddenly make it all about themselves? Nobody cares what you personally heard as it has no bearing on what did or did not happen on the other side of the ballpark from you.
Please read into the incident. Adam Jones stated that the racial slur came from the CF bleachers. The Peanut incident was towards the Baltimore dugout.
 

Reverend

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Please read into the incident. Adam Jones stated that the racial slur came from the CF bleachers. The Peanut incident was towards the Baltimore dugout.
My mistake then. Most of the quotations I saw referred to the USA Today piece which did not have him stating as such. I saw him elaborate in more recent things, but saw nothing about the location--and it's noteworthy, of course, that he says to USA Today he heard the word a handful of times. Have you a link to him referring to the location of the user of the slur?

I guess I'm mostly curious about being able to vouch for all of the CF area for the entire length of the game. Frankly, I'm always surprised by how surprised there are at how many people are so poorly behaved--I'm surprised more crap doesn't go down, frankly.