Race and the Red Sox

[geoduck no quahog]

IANAL:

"Chapter 272: Section 98. Discrimination in admission to, or treatment in, place of public accommodation; punishment; forfeiture; civil right

Section 98. Whoever makes any distinction...on account of race, color...relative to...his treatment in any place of public...amusement, as defined in section ninety-two A, or whoever aids or incites such...discrimination...shall be punished by a fine of not more than twenty-five hundred dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or both, and shall be liable to any person aggrieved...All persons shall have the right to the full and equal...advantages...of any place of public...amusement subject only to the conditions and limitations established by law and applicable to all persons. This right is recognized and declared to be a civil right."

Forget Adam Jones. What about African Americans who may be attending the game and sitting within earshot of these assholes? What if they're with their kids?

What if they were yelling at Gabe Kapler:, "Fuck you - you Kike Bastard"...

Analogies don't matter. There's simply no place for this shit in any public venue (albeit it appears a few posters here would fine with this behavior at their home).

There are thousands of cell phones at Fenway. Record these guys and then either punch them in the face and/or get a security guard to toss them. Then present evidence for prosecution.

 

[moondog80]

The people sitting around this guy/girl are just as bad for staying silent. The callers that WEEI and Hub are fielding are awful they're claiming they were at the game and heard nothing? That's a load of crap. Stop protecting these people!!

Don't be so quick to judge. Maybe they felt intimidated? Someone earlier mentioned the Kitty Genovese effect. I like to think I'd be the virtuous one in that situation and stand up to say something, but until I am, I have no idea what I actually would do.

 

[TheoShmeo]

Out the suck of last night I take some silver linings:

- the Sox responded quickly, clearly and in a way that resonates;

- despite the predictable intramural nit picking here, the predominant reaction is one of profound intolerance of racist taunts; that isn't a surprise but at the same time, it's an indication that racism is not tolerated by SoSH and hopefully we are somewhat representative (maybe a vain hope);

- I think it's at least possible that fans will be more apt to report other fans after the attention this incident has received: and

- the Fenway crowd has a unique opportunity tonight to demonstrate their intolerance of racism by giving Adam Jones a standing O, a chance I do not think they will fumble.

 

[riboflav]

I'm no lawyer, but I think those implying the fan could be prosecuted for hurling racist insults are way off. If a crime were committed, it was done by throwing a physical object at Jones. If direct threats were made that could also have risen to a criminal level. But, regardless of what the Mass law says, calling someone a monkey or N---- is not going to be prosecuted (unless, again, accompanied by threats or something physical).

 

[E5 Yaz]

Mookie Betts‏Verified account @mookiebetts
Fact: I'm Black too

Literally stand up for @SimplyAJ10 tonight and say no to racism. We as @RedSox and @MLB fans are better than this.

10‏Verified account @SimplyAJ10 15m15 minutes ago
Replying to @mookiebetts @RedSox @MLB
Thanks Mookie. Means a lot my man.

 

[LesterFan]

C.C. Sabathia piling on:

Erik Boland @eboland1120m
Sabathia said he's experienced what Adam Jones did in Boston, though not since he's been with Yankees because their security presence in pen

Erik Boland @eboland1118m
Sabathia said in his big league career "I've never been called the N word" anywhere but in Boston

Erik Boland @eboland1111m
Sabathia said it's talked about among black major leaguers: "we know. There's 62 of us. We all know. When you go to Boston, expect it."

 

[E5 Yaz]

C.C. Sabathia piling on:

Erik Boland @eboland1120m
Sabathia said he's experienced what Adam Jones did in Boston, though not since he's been with Yankees because their security presence in pen

Erik Boland @eboland1118m
Sabathia said in his big league career "I've never been called the N word" anywhere but in Boston

Erik Boland @eboland1111m
Sabathia said it's talked about among black major leaguers: "we know. There's 62 of us. We all know. When you go to Boston, expect it."

Piling on? How about simply explaining that it's not an isolated incident

 

[JohntheBaptist]

- despite the predictable intramural nit picking here, the predominant reaction is one of profound intolerance of racist taunts

I apologize if the nitpick is predictable but I would assume the act of abhorring racism would include calling bullshit on someone who doesn't take the word of the victim of racial taunts at face value so as to slow the possibility their favorite sports city gets "smeared."

One might actually see that as an example of not tolerating racism.

The Sabathia tweets are not surprising. Boston is going to have to take its lumps on this one.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

I am very surprised by that number. I would have guessed about 5-6 people were ushered out last night.

G

Very few fans are kicked out of the the seats. Most are kicked out elsewhere

 

[dcmissle]

This is what a handful of assholes can do. Just passed a tv in a lunch room. CNN is going nuts with it.

JFC.

 

[amh03]

It's on the rest of us to prove that those few idiots don't represent all Red Sox fans. Does it suck that we have to do it? Sure...

But it sucks even more to be on the receiving end of that hate. So, fans going tonight - do the right thing...stand up and show them!

 

[SumnerH]

Why? Are you unfamiliar with Kitty Genovese

Yes, it's a well-known cautionary tale about media sensationalism. Genovese was attacked by serial killer Winston Mosely. There were 5 known witnesses. Two of them called the police (albeit one only after calling friends for advice and crossing to a neighbor's apartment). A third, Robert Mozer, intervened directly and yelled at Mosely, causing him to run off. A fourth witness, Sophia Ferrar, came out and attempted to help the bleeding Genovese, cradling her until help arrived. The fifth witness, the aptly named Joseph Fink, closed his door, did nothing, and took a nap.

Because of the swift response by witnesses, an ambulance arrived soon after the attacks; unfortunately, Genovese died en route to the hospital.

But there was a widely-reprinted early report in the New York Times that made all sorts of incorrect claims (that there were something like 38 witnesses all of whom ignored the situation, that Mosely attacked Genovese 3 times, that nobody called the cops, and that Genovese died on the sidewalk with nobody trying to help her), so until the late 1990s people--especially in rural america--would often use it as a moral pearl-clutching story about urban decay and how people don't care enough to help each other in the big city.

Since then it's been used as a case study in journalism and the persistence of legends.

Apparently the original misconception still lingers in some corners. A good myth is hard to displace.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

This is what a handful of assholes can do. Just passed a tv in a lunch room. CNN is going nuts with it.

JFC.

That sounds pretty rough, man. T&P.

 

[Hoodie Sleeves]

Ok, that's kind of reassuring. Still, it is sort of indicative of a group mentality taking over and I can see a correlation between willing to cross that line and racist comments by others. But, yeah, not quite as strong.

No, it's not really indicative of group mentality. Most people aren't going to start a fight with some drunk yahoo to get him to stop calling an athlete who makes millions of dollars a year bad words. The sort of assholes who do these sort of things are very often the sort of assholes who take a swing at you when you say something.

Most people aren't equipped to deal with this sort of thing.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

No, it's not really indicative of group mentality. Most people aren't going to start a fight with some drunk yahoo to get him to stop calling an athlete who makes millions of dollars a year bad words. The sort of assholes who do these sort of things are very often the sort of assholes who take a swing at you when you say something.

Most people aren't equipped to deal with this sort of thing.

Interesting way to characterize what happened. You're right though, there's always some reason we can scrounge up for not speaking up--but don't anyone dare call Boston "racist." Then you'll hear from us.

Can we really even believe these big money elites making these claims?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

C.C. Sabathia piling on:

Erik Boland @eboland1120m
Sabathia said he's experienced what Adam Jones did in Boston, though not since he's been with Yankees because their security presence in pen

Erik Boland @eboland1118m
Sabathia said in his big league career "I've never been called the N word" anywhere but in Boston

Erik Boland @eboland1111m
Sabathia said it's talked about among black major leaguers: "we know. There's 62 of us. We all know. When you go to Boston, expect it."

Now this I think is BS. He's never been called that word ANYWHERE besides Boston? Nowhere at all...I believe it happened obviously but this might be a little bit of fudging of the truth there for CC.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

No, it's not really indicative of group mentality. Most people aren't going to start a fight with some drunk yahoo to get him to stop calling an athlete who makes millions of dollars a year bad words. The sort of assholes who do these sort of things are very often the sort of assholes who take a swing at you when you say something.

Most people aren't equipped to deal with this sort of thing.

Not sure that's responsive to my point. Or one of us isn't being clear.

My point was about whether it was true or not that racial slurs were directed toward Jones. I said that an environment where people throw things at him is one in which I can see it being more likely, not less likely, that others are also saying racist things to him -- even if not the same person.

 

[lexrageorge]

No, it's not really indicative of group mentality. Most people aren't going to start a fight with some drunk yahoo to get him to stop calling an athlete who makes millions of dollars a year bad words. The sort of assholes who do these sort of things are very often the sort of assholes who take a swing at you when you say something.

Most people aren't equipped to deal with this sort of thing.

Nailed it. If I'm there with my kid, the last thing I'm going to do is to provoke some drunken idiot into taking a swing at me unless he's directly threatening my kid.

This guy did get, you know, ejected, so I'm not sure there's a ton of evidence that people were covering for him or simply ignoring him for all 9 innings. If he and his buds were moving around from section to section, it's even easier to understand how things went down the way they did.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Fans reporting other fans for this kind of behavior would seem to be the most critical element in trying to minimize it. There is simply no way the security staff can be expected to catch all such incidents first hand. Is there anything the Red Sox can do, that they aren't currently doing, to encourage it? Honest question. I go to 10-15 games a year, sit in the bleachers, and have never really had any experience reporting anyone. Does security take it seriously, and are they responsive enough?

Last year 4 of us were in the front row bleachers behind the visitors bullpen. We were having fun, laughing, and chanting "Sue-Za!" towards the RF Steven Souza. I look to the left and see a security guard staring as us and radioing......no, can't be. All he would have to do is casually approach is and say "Hey guys I know you're not meaning any harm and having a good time but you can't do that"......and I'd have high-fives the guy and said no problem. Yup can be! Within minutes 2 uniformed Boston Police Officers are standing in front of us in the 9th inning of a one-run game reading us the riot act. They wouldn't stop finally I told them we understood and asked if we can please finish watching the game (they acted like they weren't leaving anytime soon) one got in my face and threatened to arrest me.

So yes, security is all over bleacher issues. Sometimes they foolishly overdo it.

 

[Doc Zero]

It seems like whenever something awful happens to someone who's spent their life on the receiving end of systematic marginalization, there's always a chorus of, "Well, we don't know for sure..." / "Well, why is someone assumed guilty..." / "Well, where's the evidence..."

And these comments are usually always dressed up with an unimpeachable preference for honor, logic, and evidence, as if the most righteous thing we could possibly to is doubt someone who claims they were accosted. After all, no one happened to film it on their smartphone! And you know, throwing a banana isn't technically racist!

It's a real bummer, and this brand of doubt eventually leads to asking someone why were they walking home by themselves dressed like that, or why were they running from a cop if they didn't have a gun.

We don't lose anything by taking Adam Jones at his word. Putting the Red Sox statement under the microscope and searching for something—anything—that invalidates the notion that the club admitted to actual, verifiable racist slurs is contributes to a culture of denial.

Racism is hard to talk about, and it really stinks when your team, your ballpark, and your city is plastered all over the news for a few days for something as disgusting as this.

But as sobering as it is to have to defend the city and the team you love—to plead with people that "not all Red Sox fans are like this"—it's not even close to spending your life in a world that keeps telling you "stop hitting yourself." You know, the type of world that demands hard evidence, or splits hairs about the wording in an official statement, or accuses Jones of previously having "played the race card."

Even when POC, women, trans, and our LGBTQ friends speak up, we start scrambling to poke holes in their assertions.

Count me in with the people who've suggested a show of solidarity from the Sox and the crowd tonight. I won't get my hopes up for it, but it'd sure be nice to see some form of compassion, or anything that says we hear you and we'll continue to listen.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Don't be so quick to judge. Maybe they felt intimidated? Someone earlier mentioned the Kitty Genovese effect. I like to think I'd be the virtuous one in that situation and stand up to say something, but until I am, I have no idea what I actually would do.

Fans usually rat out the offending fan. But the ones that sat around him or her obviously didn't have a problem with it. At all. The people who went on the radio and claimed they heard nothing also had no problem with it at all.

Now here is what I have a problem with...CC's comments. While the events I have no doubt did happen singling out Boston as the only place it's ever happened is ridiculous. Especially since he played in Milwaukee which had such tolerance for African Americans that a jewelry shop called 911 on John Henson because he tried getting in the store while being "black".

 

[HomeRunBaker]

We don't need to fish for racism. Calling him the n-word is racist and stands on its own merit. Throwing a half bag of unwanted peanuts isn't racist. It's just fucking stupid.

REAL f'in stupid......those peanuts aren't cheap.

 

[Chuck Schilling]

If someone is detracting from your enjoyment of the game, please call the security hotline at 617-226-6411, which is printed on the back of your ticket

Fenway code of conduct

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

If someone is detracting from your enjoyment of the game, please call the security hotline at 617-226-6411, which is printed on the back of your ticket

Fenway code of conduct

And this is why there is zero excuses for the fans around the offending fan protecting him/her. Step out downstairs and call the number. It's not hard.

 

[Green Monster]

It's on the rest of us to prove that those few idiots don't represent all Red Sox fans. Does it suck that we have to do it? Sure...

But it sucks even more to be on the receiving end of that hate. So, fans going tonight - do the right thing...stand up and show them!

Agree 100%........wish I was going.......for those of you who are, Make Us Proud!

 

[E5 Yaz]

Scott Lauber ESPN Staff Writer
Adam Jones says he met with Red Sox owner John Henry and has heard from Mookie Betts and David Price. Says he expects, even enjoys getting booed when he comes to Boston, but "leave the racial stuff out of it."

Coley Harvey ESPN Staff Writer
Asked Adam Jones what reaction he expected at Fenway tonight. "Boo me. Boo the Orioles. But don't bring in demeaning comments based on race."‬ He believes fans in opposing ballparks have every right to criticize players on the visiting team. But that doesn't mean the comments should go over the line the way they did Monday, he said.

 

[BigSoxFan]

And this is why there is zero excuses for the fans around the offending fan protecting him/her. Step out downstairs and call the number. It's not hard.

How many people do you think read the back of the ticket? I know I just file it away once I get in. Red Sox probably need to make a couple PSAs during pregame.

 

[dcmissle]

I really hope he gets a standing ovation when he takes the field or comes up to bat, whichever is first.

It's the right thing to do. It's also the smart thing to do. It's the only thing that will put this to bed tonight with a decent ending.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

How many people do you think read the back of the ticket? I know I just file it away once I get in. Red Sox probably need to make a couple PSAs during pregame.

It also is advertised a few times during the game subtle sure but it's there. There is zero excuse for supporting racism or not doing anything about it. No excuse. That's why #45 aka T***P got elected. Boston isn't the only place by any means which is why CC's claim is pure BS but let's really be honest. Walk down stairs and call the number

 

[E5 Yaz]

It's the right thing to do. It's also the smart thing to do. It's the only thing that will put this to bed tonight with a decent ending.

I agree with your first two sentiments. I'd like to think it would be "put to bed" at that point, but I have my doubts

 

[cornwalls@6]

Was the idiot(s) delivering the racial slurs ejected from the park? I know the peanut thrower was. If so, why is there so much assumption here that everyone around them was complicit and covering up for them?

 

[ThePrideofShiner]

Fans usually rat out the offending fan. But the ones that sat around him or her obviously didn't have a problem with it. At all. The people who went on the radio and claimed they heard nothing also had no problem with it at all.

Now here is what I have a problem with...CC's comments. While the events I have no doubt did happen singling out Boston as the only place it's ever happened is ridiculous. Especially since he played in Milwaukee which had such tolerance for African Americans that a jewelry shop called 911 on John Henson because he tried getting in the store while being "black".

Well considering he only played half a season in Milwaukee, went 11-2 and nearly single-handedly led them to the playoffs, I highly doubt the fine folks in the stands were yelling the N word at him.

I have no problem taking people at their word in these types of situations. If Sabathia says that why doubt him?

 

[Hoodie Sleeves]

Now here is what I have a problem with...CC's comments. While the events I have no doubt did happen singling out Boston as the only place it's ever happened is ridiculous. Especially since he played in Milwaukee which had such tolerance for African Americans that a jewelry shop called 911 on John Henson because he tried getting in the store while being "black".

I did about 5 seconds of googling, and found a whole bunch of examples of CC Sabathia being interviewed about his teammates being called racial slurs (mostly stadiums in the midwest), and while most of them seem to be "I didn't hear it" or similar, he's certainly aware it happens elsewhere.

 

[Doc Zero]

Gee, glad we got to to the bottom of that heinous, slanderous CC Sabathia statement. Good work, team.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

I hope it doesn't get put to bed tonight. Hopefully all that bothersome CNN coverage continues. I'm glad at least this isn't being confronted with shrugged shoulders and "well, just a couple of drunk idiots" somewhere.

Tough shit you have to hear about it on CNN.

I have no problem taking people at their word in these types of situations. If Sabathia says that why doubt him?

I would love an answer to this.

 

[BigSoxFan]

It also is advertised a few times during the game subtle sure but it's there. There is zero excuse for supporting racism or not doing anything about it. No excuse. That's why #45 aka T***P got elected. Boston isn't the only place by any means which is why CC's claim is pure BS but let's really be honest. Walk down stairs and call the number

If you set up a number to text and had someone monitor it during games, I bet you'd have a much better response. My point is that both the Red Sox and fans need to be more proactive with this stuff. Hardly anyone pays attention to announcements or the back of a ticket.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

How many people do you think read the back of the ticket? I know I just file it away once I get in. Red Sox probably need to make a couple PSAs during pregame.

It's definitely part of the pre-game stuff, around the same time as the first pitch. We only go rarely, so we always go early, but I've heard it every single time. They put it up on the big board, and they read out the fan conduct rules including the steps to take if you're being annoyed, at least once and I think maybe more than that.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I did about 5 seconds of googling, and found a whole bunch of examples of CC Sabathia being interviewed about his teammates being called racial slurs (mostly stadiums in the midwest), and while most of them seem to be "I didn't hear it" or similar, he's certainly aware it happens elsewhere.

But then why not say it happens around the country but the majority of my experience has been Boston? What CC is doing there is piling on or creating your own narrative. Now that is something which is ridiculous in its own right.

 

[jodyreeddudley78]

Seriously, what would CC or Jones have to gain from lying? It's like people think they have victim clauses in their contracts. There is zero point in making this stuff up. People need to come to grips with the fact that there are assholes in Boston.

 

[Sportsbstn]

I agree with your first two sentiments. I'd like to think it would be "put to bed" at that point, but I have my doubts

Not a chance in the world it's put to bed. The talk shows need something to talk about and will for a month

 

[lexrageorge]

Gee, glad we got to to the bottom of that heinous, slanderous CC Sabathia statement. Good work, team.

Well, Sabathia made a claim that seems highly unlikely to be true. Which only detracts from the entire situation. Then the google search shows examples of him mentioning hearing racial slurs at other stadiums.

Coverage of the situation is fine. But we should at least insist on accurate coverage as opposed to made up claims.

 

[The Tax Man]

@JesusQuintana recently published his take on this Adam Jones story on the .com, and well... it's that Adam Jones should be the story.

 

[E5 Yaz]

I have no problem taking people at their word in these types of situations. If Sabathia says that why doubt him?

The doubt and the "video proof or it didn't happen" bullshit goes back as long as there's been prejudice, but they gained renewed steam in today's pop culture politics back in 2010, with the incident in which Rep John Lewis said he heard racial epithets coming from members of the Tea Party. Certain media outlets ran with the storyline of whether Lewis's claims could be proven to the point where it became an easy talking point for the easily swayed.

It's the same sort of "racism claims are overstated" garbage you get across the spectrum. Heck, in the past month we've had a Boston baseball hero question the need for the Civil Rights Movement fo the '60s, because constitutional amendments solved all those issues.

 

[BigSoxFan]

It's definitely part of the pre-game stuff, around the same time as the first pitch. We only go rarely, so we always go early, but I've heard it every single time. They put it up on the big board, and they read out the fan conduct rules including the steps to take if you're being annoyed, at least once and I think maybe more than that.

Fair enough. Been a few years since I've been to Fenway since I moved but I would also like to see a text phone number since everyone communicates via text these days. Sucks that people won't make the effort but I think it's a necessary step and it's easy to get implemented.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

I did about 5 seconds of googling, and found a whole bunch of examples of CC Sabathia being interviewed about his teammates being called racial slurs (mostly stadiums in the midwest), and while most of them seem to be "I didn't hear it" or similar, he's certainly aware it happens elsewhere.

You're missing the larger point here, it's that pretty much every black player doesn't like coming to Boston because they think that they're going to hear racist bullshit. Even if CC Sabathia said that he's never heard the word in his entire life -- except for Boston -- it's still an incredibly troubling piece of news to hear about your home town.

I'm not naive enough to think that there are any racial paradises in the US, or the world, but to hear that your city is one of the worst, that's not good. Let's stop parsing statements for things that may make us feel better about the situation and work on fixing the problem.

 

[Hoodie Sleeves]

Seriously, what would CC or Jones have to gain from lying? It's like people think they have victim clauses in their contracts. There is zero point in making this stuff up. People need to come to grips with the fact that there are assholes in Boston.

People exaggerate or lie to bolster claims all the time.

It's shitty that Adam Jones got called a racial slur.

CC Sabathia pretending it only happens in boston when he has a long documented history of commenting on it at other stadiums doesn't help anyone.

 

[Doc Zero]

Well, Sabathia made a claim that seems highly unlikely to be true. Which only detracts from the entire situation.

It only "detracts from the situation" for you—the spurned Red Sox fan who doesn't want their ballpark seen as more racist than the rest of the league. You're essentially telling CC, "You're the victim of racism everywhere! Get it right!"

It's not a good look, and I don't think it advances the discussion. If you really want to talk about detractions, we can start with cross-referencing CC's statement with contradictory news articles from years past.

 

[Captaincoop]

@JesusQuintana recently published his take on this Adam Jones story on the .com, and well... it's that Adam Jones should be the story.

I don't think Peter Abraham was making the point that guy thinks he was making. He's saying it's ironic that this happened to a guy who is close to beloved Red Sox David Ortiz and has supported Boston-based charities.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Fair enough. Been a few years since I've been to Fenway since I moved but I would also like to see a text phone number since everyone communicates via text these days. Sucks that people won't make the effort but I think it's a necessary step and it's easy to get implemented.

Yeah -- it's pretty common where I live (Arizona) at both Cardinals and Diamondbacks games. They frequently put the text-if-there's-a-problem number (actually it's an easy to remember word) up during the game. I think it's usually used for swearing and drunks near kids. As far as I have heard, it works pretty well -- mostly as a disincentive because there is a two strikes policy. They visit you the second time, they come with a cop.

 

[curly2]

I have no problem taking people at their word in these types of situations. If Sabathia says that why doubt him?

Yeah, why would he cover up for people in other cities who called him the N-word? If he just wanted to stick it to Boston, he could have said, "I've heard that terms a few places but nowhere near as much in other places as in Boston."