Rebirth of a Sale, man
- Thread starter reggiecleveland
- Start date
Sale finally played catch the past 2 days, but still hasn't even thrown off a mound yet.
If this was just the team giving him extra rest, or being overly cautious, it sure seems like he would be pitching off a mound, and maybe even be getting ready for a rehab start, but that ain't happening.
He's eligible to come off the DL, but he won't.
NBC Sports Boston says "Barring no setbacks, it'll likely take about two weeks for Sale to be ready to pitch in games." (Pretty sure they mean "barring setbacks.")
Two weeks from now is September 12. Hopefully he doesn't have any setbacks, and hopefully he'll be able to pitch 6 or so innings at that point. But any setbacks at any point would be real bad news.
If this was just the team giving him extra rest, or being overly cautious, it sure seems like he would be pitching off a mound, and maybe even be getting ready for a rehab start, but that ain't happening.
He's eligible to come off the DL, but he won't.
NBC Sports Boston says "Barring no setbacks, it'll likely take about two weeks for Sale to be ready to pitch in games." (Pretty sure they mean "barring setbacks.")
Two weeks from now is September 12. Hopefully he doesn't have any setbacks, and hopefully he'll be able to pitch 6 or so innings at that point. But any setbacks at any point would be real bad news.
I really, really, really, REALLY hope that 99% of this is precautionary, that this is their way of just preserving him for the most important moments of the season. Otherwise, this very much has me worried.
Price has been great, don't get me wrong (2.96 era, 1.06 whip, 9.4 k/9 since May 12). But this team needs Sale. For lots of reasons.
Price has been great, don't get me wrong (2.96 era, 1.06 whip, 9.4 k/9 since May 12). But this team needs Sale. For lots of reasons.
Yes this is well beyond the idea of them manipulating the 10 day DL for rest purposes. Concern is warranted.
Once they sat him down a second time, there was absolutely no reason to believe this was just a means of resting him. He has/had legitimate inflammation in his shoulder and the team is being extremely cautious about it. At this point, I'm not concerned at all. They'll ramp him up and get him on a mound in a game and then go from there. My guess is as long as he's effective (like he was in his only start between DL stints), he'll keep getting the ball every five days. Frankly, I think the only thing that's in jeopardy at this point is the chances of Sale pitching on short rest at any point in the post-season. Should they need that from a starter, it will have to be Price or Porcello.
Well, at least he's started throwing. I'd be much more concerned if he wasn't even doing that yet.
But his left arm feels like Paul Bunyon's ox. Take your time, don't rush, the cavalry (Edro) is on his way
Concern is warranted because any time a pitcher has any type of shoulder issue there should be concern, but he came off the DL against the Orioles throwing 100 mph and striking out 12. Wouldn't there be some sign of poor command or decreased velocity as a sign of further injury? To me, it sounds like there is the general soreness that any pitcher has this time of year but on an increased level. Maybe he's pitched through this every season but with the cushion they had at the time the Sox took the more conservative approach.
Hopefully EdRo works out better than the French Cavalry did in WW1(which appears to be what those guys are dressed as).But his left arm feels like Paul Bunyon's ox. Take your time, don't rush, the cavalry (Edro) is on his way
Oh hell, I just settled on a cavalry type picture that would copy/paste. Actually, the French overall did pretty well in WWII, didn’t they?
French did great in WWI(not so much II) but cavalry was seriously outdated by then and got mowed down by machine guns.
Sorry for the derail.
The team is going to the playoffs one way or another. He needs to be healthy for that. Bringing him back only to lose him for the playoffs is the only outcome they can’t afford.
Speier's Glob notebook says Sale played catch again, but there isn't yet a schedule in place for his rehab and he will continue only playing catch for a few more days.
"Chris Sale, meanwhile, threw on flat ground for a third straight day, stretching out to 120 feet.
He’ll continue to play catch through the weekend before the lefthander sits down with Sox officials to map out a schedule moving forward."
"Chris Sale, meanwhile, threw on flat ground for a third straight day, stretching out to 120 feet.
He’ll continue to play catch through the weekend before the lefthander sits down with Sox officials to map out a schedule moving forward."
Oh shit, I meant to say they did well in WWI. In II, they got their helmets handed to them in a month plus.French did great in WWI(not so much II) but cavalry was seriously outdated by then and got mowed down by machine guns.
Sorry for the derail.
My grandfather was a cowboy and hated the coming of the motorized age. In May of 1940 he sold 20 horses to the French army who paid cash. The next day the French surrendered. He went back to the train station and the French agent (an old WW1 cavalry guy) was selling horses back to the ranchers for 10% of the price.
Pete AbrahamVerified account @PeteAbe 41m41 minutes ago
Alex Cora said the plan is for Chris Sale to make at least two MLB starts before the playoffs.
Alex Cora said the plan is for Chris Sale to make at least two MLB starts before the playoffs.
That would be great, and it would also be nice to hear a target date for him to be throwing from a mound.
One good thing the Sox have done about injuries is to mostly stop giving target dates publicly.
Because setting dates creates expectations that, if not met, bring only criticism. The medical staff and/or the player get a heap of questions because they under/over estimated something that really isn't an exact science.
If they want Sale to get at least two starts, we can assume that the last one wouldn't be any later than Game 160 (9/28) to allow for full, if not a little extra rest to start Game 1 of the ALDS. Working backwards, that puts the preceding start on 9/22 or 9/23. Let's be optimistic and think he gets three starts, so that's 9/16. Figure to prep for that, he'll probably throw a simulated game or live BP. Put that on 9/11-9/12. 2-3 bullpen sessions before that, say 9/5, 9/7, 9/9 or something along those lines. Soooo, he's probably getting on a mound at some point in the next few days. But based on how they've operated so far, they're only looking as far ahead as the next time he throws whether it's flat ground or on a mound. Which is the best way to do it.
An example of what exactly? Are people in NY blaming the management or medical staff for misleading them? Everyone knows it’s an inexact science and that the estimates are just that, estimates. Why put out any info at all if there’s a chance that it may not go to plan?
Well, you’ve now questioned both of the two sides of the issue with a rhetorical question. That does not strike me as constructive, so what is it you are looking for?
Setting dates is stupid in medicine and they get in the way. People are often given dates because they want them and demand them because people are impatient and anxious when uncertain, which makes them annoying and ask for things that aren’t good for them.
This team keeps confusing fans by acting aberrationally. But an aberration can be a good thing if the old, usually way of doing things isn’t actually any good. Really, I’ve said so before: I feel like this team keeps confusing fans by doing certain things which, in the past, have been done badly and, instead, doing them correctly.
Makes’em look weird.
In short, yes. In a recent presser, Boone addressed the fact that the doc was overly optimistic with the timeline. I would not say everyone knows it's an inexact science. I would say most people who have a clue understand that, but that doesn't capture either the casual mfy fan who sees it scrolling on the bottom of ESPN or the NY tabloid media. They also just traded for McCutchen in part due to Judge's injury. If he had come back in the originally-expected 3 weeks, I don't think that trade takes place.
The fact that he's now thrown five days in a row, and by all reports he was not holding back even on flat ground, and felt good enough to get on a mound today is pretty damn encouraging. Yes, how he responds after throwing is important, but so far, so good.
All this is true.
But if we went back to when he hit the DL again and said we’d be feeling really good if he threw off flat ground 5 days in a row and was looking forward to a bullpen — the reaction would have been, WTF?!
The team has finessed this really well. They don’t owe us candor, and it’s smart not to be forthcoming, but don’t fall for the okie-doke.
Relatedly, I don’t expect to see Price for 2 weeks.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sale needs 16 more innings to finish the season as a qualifying pitcher for stat purposes. Would this be something Sale and/or his agent would want to meet with a potential Cy Young and ERA title on the line? Cora said at least 2 starts. With 2 he'll likely fall short of 16 IP but with 3 he likely gets there.
Not that I know of, but I would think some writers would have a hard time voting for him if he didn't pitch enough innings to qualify.
In 2016, Kershaw pitched 149 innings and finished 5th despite an insanely low 1.69 ERA 1.80 FIP and 0.72 WHIP. Maybe this had nothing to do with qualifying and they just thought those who pitched more deserved it more, who knows.
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Relievers have won it, so of course not.
But more practically, it seems very unlikely a starter could win it without meeting the qualifying innings threshold.
I agree wholeheartedly. But he didn't, and that makes me think the voters will screw over Sale if he comes in under 162 innings, too.
Should he have though? In 2016 Scherzer (who won it) had Kershaw solidly beat in bWAR (6.3 to 5.8) though it's true he trailed him by even more in fWAR (6.5 to 5.6)
Sale leads the also on-the-shelf Bauer by a similar margin so far (6.5 to 5.8 in bWAR, though the still-active Snell is right behind). In fWAR it's tighter with Sale (6.1) leading Bauer (5.9) and then the actively pitching Cole (5.4) and Verlander (5.1). Snell is way down the pack there with 3.6 behind even washed up has-beens (e.g. Severino 4.7)
Sale leads the also on-the-shelf Bauer by a similar margin so far (6.5 to 5.8 in bWAR, though the still-active Snell is right behind). In fWAR it's tighter with Sale (6.1) leading Bauer (5.9) and then the actively pitching Cole (5.4) and Verlander (5.1). Snell is way down the pack there with 3.6 behind even washed up has-beens (e.g. Severino 4.7)
I know the Sox have a big lead but honestly, if they hold the Yankees off without Sale or Price.... that's a huge accomplishment.
If the Allies had won WWII without the US it would have been a huge accomplishment too, but I don’t like the odds for either.
The Sox are on a 108.6 win pace in games started by people other than Sale or Price.
True. Amazingly, in a season where 10 different pitchers have made starts (so far) there isn't a single one in which the Sox are more than 1 game under .500 in those starts.
Sox W/L by starter:
Code:
Rodriguez 17-3 .850 +14
Price 20-6 .769 +14
Porcello 18-10 .643 +8
Sale 15-8 .652 +7
Johnson 9-2 .818 +7
Velazquez 4-2 .667 +2
Wright 3-1 .750 +2
Pomeranz 5-6 .455 -1
Eovaldi 3-4 .429 -1
Beeks 0-1 .000 -1Michael Silverman on Twitter:
Things going very well for Chris Sale. Red Sox expect him to return as "opener" on homestand, maybe as soon as Astros series.
Things going very well for Chris Sale. Red Sox expect him to return as "opener" on homestand, maybe as soon as Astros series.
It would be pretty sweet (if the Astros decide against using the off-day Thursday to give their front-enders an extra day's rest) to see Sale, Price and Rodriguez (in some order) lined up against Cole, Keuchel and Verlander this weekend.
Or, if they threw Wynken, Blynken and Nod at us we could get closer to clinching the East. I especially wouldn't mind Sale in his first game back having as few stress pitches as possible.
Cora said Sale wanted him to call him an Opener for 1 or 2 starts as a joke. I am assuming it will be more like the pitch count he had last time against Baltimore.