This is not a panic move.
As long as he pitches better than JoKe or Clay, he'll make a difference.
Red Sox acquire Drew Pomeranz for Anderson Espinoza
- Thread starter johnnywayback
- Start date
As long as he's an improvement over what we've been throwing out there so far, then he's a difference maker. And he really should be.
It might of been.
Hey, if Pomeranz gives the Sox half a season with a sub-2.50 ERA, I'll be okay with Espinoza blossoming in a decade!
I don't care about trading the kid.
I'm just not sure how much we'll actually get from Pomeranz this year. They're clearly in GFIN mode.
I'm just not sure how much we'll actually get from Pomeranz this year. They're clearly in GFIN mode.
This likely won't impact Espinoza's first ballot Hall of Fame induction.
Everybody get whelmed for Pomeranz.
THIS. It hurts to give up Espinoza but by lapping the field Dombrowski did not find himself in a position on July 31st where Beane is asking for AE for Rich Frikkin Hill. Pitching is beyond scarce and will be this winter too. I am rooting for AE but hopefully 3-4 great years from our Varsity will make his splashy debut in 2020 easier to swallow.
Andrew Miller becoming a dominant reliever after 6 years does not count. He was one of two major pieces for Cabrera. Everyone would make that trade again.
GFIN mode would be trading for someone hitting FA at the end of the season, no?
Sean O'Sullivan or the new guy? Hmmm. I'm in. I'm sure Espinoza is a fine prospect. This is Papi's last year and the AL blows. DD going for it this year makes me very happy.
And a dominant reliever on a team that wasn't involved in the trade, and one that didn't part with much to get him (Dustin Richardson).
I think they're doing both, which is awesome, but I have zero debts they're making these moves to win it all this year. I'm all-in on GFIN this year with the Bs raking, Ortiz leaving, etc.
I expect another SP to be added.
Dan Roche
@RochieWBZ
#RedSox starting rotation update for series at NYY: Friday - Steven Wright, Saturday - LHP Eduardo Rodriguez, Sunday - LHP David Price #wbz
@RochieWBZ#RedSox starting rotation update for series at NYY: Friday - Steven Wright, Saturday - LHP Eduardo Rodriguez, Sunday - LHP David Price #wbz
I've come around a bit after posting that visceral reaction, as you'd see if you followed the thread. But, great... joke? I guess that was a joke? Everybody get whelmed for sackamano's next hilarious post.
edit: also at the time it was unclear what the trade pieces were and it appeared to be Espinoza+
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Pomeranz is not good enough to be trading a kid with ace potential. Unproven NL pitcher coming to the AL East and Fenway for his home park. He's not going to be anything great here. We should have been able to get a not that great pitcher for a lot less than Espinoza, and if we couldn't, then we shouldn't have done anything.
Padres sold really high on this guy. Dombrowski is doing a great job of restocking their farm system for them though.
Padres sold really high on this guy. Dombrowski is doing a great job of restocking their farm system for them though.
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But DD was Stoneman's understudy when a very shitty RJ was shipped to SEA in '89
Solid trade for the immediate term but gosh this hurts. Went back and read the Boston Globe article on Espinoza and was cringing 30 seconds in... You don't give up on that potential. I sure hope DD sees future potential in Pomeranz...
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/09/05/could-anderson-espinoza-next-pedro-martinez/egFsvFH5382TfcmBW1V3FO/story.html
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/09/05/could-anderson-espinoza-next-pedro-martinez/egFsvFH5382TfcmBW1V3FO/story.html
I'm really surprised by the timing of the deal and wonder if we can read any tea-leaves over it.
There is just not much out there in terms of starting pitching and we certainly weren't the only team that needed it. I would have thought San Diego was in position to sit back and let teams negotiate against each other. They got a nice return here, for sure, but I would think it would be hard for DD to say with a straight face that the deal would only be open for a day or two unless he something to play off of. The Padres has 17 more days to make this trade. DD must have been able to convince them he had a second choice in the works in order to get them to move.
There is just not much out there in terms of starting pitching and we certainly weren't the only team that needed it. I would have thought San Diego was in position to sit back and let teams negotiate against each other. They got a nice return here, for sure, but I would think it would be hard for DD to say with a straight face that the deal would only be open for a day or two unless he something to play off of. The Padres has 17 more days to make this trade. DD must have been able to convince them he had a second choice in the works in order to get them to move.
Can't really count Miller. It took him years and a move to the pen to figure it out. Plus him and Maybin for Miggy? That's not a deal anyone hesitates on.
Does now include '17 and '18?
There is a very small number of good pitchers who are acquirable and under control for 2.5 more years.
Or Espinoza was what Preller wanted, and Dombrowski didn't think he'd be able to do much better by waiting. Three extra starts from Pom vs. O'Sullivan doesn't hurt either in what could be a close division race.
I love Espinoza, but I love this deal too. I think people are really selling Pomeranz short. He's having an amazing season, as in better than anyone on our staff is having, type of season. I think if folks want to have any shot at seeing the Sox in the post-season this year, or next, this is the kind of move they should be happy to see. Going out and getting guys like Hellickson so they can put up the same type of numbers as Porcello isn't going to get it done. I think Pomeranz figured it out this year, and barring injury, this could end up looking like a great deal for a couple of years. If AE turns into a Cy Young contender a half decade from now or whatever, so be it. I would personally rather root for the Sox in the post-season between now and then.
Reasons this happened....
Clay Buccholz turned into a pumpkin
Joe Kelly got hurt and sucked
Edro hurt his knee and lost his mechanics
Henry Owens can't locate a fastball
Brian Johnson has anxiety
Horrible gap in viable SP prospects
2017 FA SP is absolute horrible
This team couldn't field a competent pitcher 2/5's of their game and there is NO ONE in the system to fix not only this year but next. This problem wasn't going to just fix itself.
Clay Buccholz turned into a pumpkin
Joe Kelly got hurt and sucked
Edro hurt his knee and lost his mechanics
Henry Owens can't locate a fastball
Brian Johnson has anxiety
Horrible gap in viable SP prospects
2017 FA SP is absolute horrible
This team couldn't field a competent pitcher 2/5's of their game and there is NO ONE in the system to fix not only this year but next. This problem wasn't going to just fix itself.
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I don't like this trade. I think we're going to look back on this one and regret it. Also, being so close to having Groome, Espinoza and Kopech in the same farm system but just missing it stings a bit. Yeah, I'm a prospect humper, but I just don't think Pomeranz is the level of pitcher you need to get back for an 18 year old who throws that hard, that easy and already has a three plus pitch mix.
Someone convince me I'm wrong... please.
Someone convince me I'm wrong... please.
You'll feel better when you don't have to watch Clay (who might be the biggest fa pitching name this year) pitch anymore.
I think.
Another angle: the Cubs look mortal again. Good, but in line with the other good teams: SF, DC, Cle, Tex, Bos, Tor, Bal, LA. That makes me feel a bit better about piling resources onto Ortiz' retirement party.
Another reason: Dombrowski chose not to sign Rich Hill, who wound up signing a one-year deal for peanuts with the A's.
Sox needed an upgrade in the rotation for this year and the next couple. Guys like Sale and Fernandez aren't going to be traded. Guys like Hellivkson and Hill aren't big upgrades. The FA market is rail thin. Pomeranz presented an opportunity to upgrade the depth of the rotation to make a playoff push in Papi's last year and is in the rotation for 2 more years at cheap cost. I love Espinoza as a prospect but Groome has a similar ceiling as him and they get Pomeranz on top of it. I'd love to have all 3 in the system too but I'm not wasting this offense's potential to make a run in October and send Ortiz out the wrong way because they wouldn't give up an 18 year old kid. If he's the next big thing in 2020 then we'll hate it of course. But I'm worried just as much about this year as I am 2020. DD needs to build the pitching prospects back up but he's not worse off for making this deal.
Pomeranz' 2016 bb/9 from the windup is 5.9. It's 2.9 from the stretch.
I, for one, look forward to watching opposing hitters flail at his very nasty knuckle-curve.
Bird in the hand...
I, for one, look forward to watching opposing hitters flail at his very nasty knuckle-curve.
Bird in the hand...
I am just a lowly lurker, but as far as I can tell only one poster has mentioned that we just picked up an All-Star pitcher for a low A prospect, who is years away from the bigs. And he looked pretty good in the All-Star game, facing Perez, JBJ, Altuve and Trout - only giving up a single to JBJ, and getting out of the inning on 12 pitches. I really like this trade.
Espinoza would have been the 3rd piece in a trade for Fernandez, and my bet is you would have freaked at the first two pieces..
Sox needed another starter, and the market is thin and expensive.
If DD is taking into account Papi's last season and send off when making trades he should be fired on the spot.